UK is a bit different. It is a theocratic christian kingdom more than a secular democracy ynlike the majority of west. Theocratic countries are more open to other religions' theocratic laws. You cant do that in France or US, I guess
How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
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We could post a number of Aayaat, Ahaadeeth, Fiqh rulings, etc. pertaining to Jihaad at-Talab, or "offensive Jihaad", but at this point in time it wouldn't be worth it because currently, there is only Jihaad ad-Dafa` (Defensive Jihaad) taking place, like in Syria, etc. So, now is not the time to be debating about Jihaad at-Talab. We take things one step at a time, and focus on what's important at the moment. At the moment, Muslims are being massacred globally, their lands are being destroyed, bombed, others are languishing in prisons around the world, some in prisons the rest of the people don't even know exist. So, the pressing issue for the Muslim Ummah right now is defence. Defence of the Deen, defence of the Muslim Ummah, defence of the Muslim lands. How to put a stop to what is happening to Muslims around the world, what is happening to them right now, as we speak. As we are writing these messages, Muslims in some part of the world are being killed. As we are writing these messages, bombs are dropping in Syria and Iraq.
The primary concern at the moment is the defence of the Muslims.
The primary concern at the moment is the defence of the Muslims.
iv said it before but its the cost of war...
you cant start things if you actually care for the things your fighting for.. the family, the people, the workplace, the land.
all those have to be considered.
and as it looks now they were not..
all those people had all those things to start with..
who messed it up?
to implement change in government?
when you have all those things to begin with?
understand.
i know it does not work that way.. its a very harsh world if you allow yourself to be taken by it.
but maybe they should have put it in another order..
the family, the workplace, the people, the land..
and at all stages who would the government be?
let us not become tyrants.. although people would say its the job description.
your simply caretakers of the things allah swt has entrusted you with.
people tell me i will never be successful.. so take the above with a pinch of salt.
all praise is due to allah swt.
honestly i would not persue the world.
but if you did.. use your common sense.
you cant start things if you actually care for the things your fighting for.. the family, the people, the workplace, the land.
all those have to be considered.
and as it looks now they were not..
all those people had all those things to start with..
who messed it up?
to implement change in government?
when you have all those things to begin with?
understand.
i know it does not work that way.. its a very harsh world if you allow yourself to be taken by it.
but maybe they should have put it in another order..
the family, the workplace, the people, the land..
and at all stages who would the government be?
let us not become tyrants.. although people would say its the job description.
your simply caretakers of the things allah swt has entrusted you with.
people tell me i will never be successful.. so take the above with a pinch of salt.
all praise is due to allah swt.
honestly i would not persue the world.
but if you did.. use your common sense.
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Not to forget Yemen and even Yatrib , where was the jihad on Medinites ?? or on Yemen ?? Even Egypt at start When its ruler who did not accept Islam but sent Gifts to Prophet :saws:
But we understand the concern of our PIOUS BRETHREN HERE about our brethren being slaughtered some where else which hurts us all too, but i say its the returns for our deeds for not Listening to Allah and his prophet :saws: and becoming Khwarism Shahs as in my post #14 here . Read the link well particularly all of my 5-6 posts there to know the ROOT CAUSE , Allahu aalam.
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if Muslims are ordered by your south African government to give tax for staying in ''their'' country or face the army, then what you will do Man...?
Those Muslims who live in a non Muslims populous country shouldn't pay attention to extremists and fanatics. follow the laws of the land until the laws go against the shariah. Live happily and let others live
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Fatwa of darul uloom deoband: http://www.darulifta-deoband.com/home/en/International-Relations/5024
Yes Right, I do not think Sayadina Jafar :RA: when we muslims emigrated to Abbysinia demanded Najjashi to bring Sharia law immediately . I do not know How some make Islam which represents peace as not a peace full religion and WHY bring rules from fiqh when the Noble Quran is clear cut on this '' When they drive away from your homes and try to kill the Prophet etc etc '' is mentioned in more than one verse of the Noble Quran. We need Fiqh only when something is not clear, confusing or an example is not found in Prophet :saws: or Sahabas
But mostly who claim such matters do not ponder on the ayah which said something Like Allah hates those people who preach others but do not practise themselves.
Another nice example of Prophet :saws: inclination towards peace at Hudaibiya is the incident of a Sahabi who escaped from Mecca and had come to Medina after much torments from kuffar and who was returned back to Meccan kuffar soldiers as per the treaty. But he escaped their hands and came again (from the back - forgot ) and told that Prophet has full filled his treaty by sending him back to the kuffar soldiers but now he has come back at which Prophet :saws: FROWNED at him calling him something like '' You PROVOCATEUR " and told him to leave for peace but with sadness from all on his plight.
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Not to forget Yemen and even Yatrib , where was the jihad on Medinites ?? or on Yemen ?? Even Egypt at start When its ruler who did not accept Islam but sent Gifts to Prophet :saws:
Yes the very first Islamic state of Ythrib was established by immigration
Yes, because they could not practise their Deen in Mecca and had immense difficulties imposed on them for 13 years. At Last Allah gave permission to do Hijrah for his Prophet and all Muslims.
Even In Medina Allah, Ar Rahman The All Wise, did not LEVY ALL THE SHARIA LAW at one time like the rule of wine -intoxication, it came in three gradual steps in the form of Abrogation to ease the believer who were addicted to wine thus making them NOT TO SIN by transgressing the law of Allah , All of a sudden with a strict law .. imho.
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Simple_Person
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I have read all the comments and some brothers depict a very grim and harsh picture of how Islam should be. While other brothers show the exact picture as how i believe it.
My argument always follows the logical path. If this path being illogical goes against the fitrah, i reject it. What do i mean by this? To take Indonesia as an example. Indonesia to my knowledge was NEVER conquered through offensive war. It was conquered through the fight of the heart. When i see a kid being all sad because his ball is up in a tree and i help him to get it down. This kid will thank me and respect me. This is the basic principle of the fitrah. When we follow this fitrah, 4 types of people will remain.
Type 1: Ignorant (misinformation), but honest
Type 2: Ignorant (misinformation), but dishonest
Type 3: Knowledgeable, but dishonest (as example Jews of Medina back then)
Type 4: Knowledgeable, honest (Muslims)
Type 1 and Type 2, i believe Allah(swt) already has addressed those.
"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace," Qur'an 25:63
When type 1 sees the reaction of the Muslim, he will find it strange, that people claim these "MAHSLIMS are terrorists, however they act very respectful, while i just offended them". These people will in the end in'sha'Allah end up as Type 4 (Muslims).
When type 2 sees the reaction of the Muslims, he will not believe it and still think they are hiding something. These people are FAR FAR FAR away from the fitrah. These people will end up being used by the type 3 and will fight the Muslims. The biggest problem of these type of people is the battle they are waging with their own heart.. There is NO battle of the heart for them. They do not think..just follow their desires and that is why they lust for women and if a religion says cover yourself to the women this prevents them to fulfill their filthy desires of looking and thus becoming the enemy.
Type 3: Well these guys KNOW Islam is the truth, but because of pride or arrogance they do not want to embrace it. Copycats of iblis one could say.
Although another type exists (The hypocrites, but you all know this not necessary to talk about it).
Islam as far as i have read and tried to ponder about it and understand it, i CONTINUOUSLY came to the conclusion of conquering the heart of people. I have looked from all kind of perspectives, but offensive war like ISIS i couldn't place being compatible with the fitrah. If somebody comes to MY house and says i MUST do this or that, i will fight with ALL my strength doesn't matter if he was planning to bring some good things. If my heart is conquered, i will invite them in to my house.
I mean even looking at the whole argument of "free will" that we human beings have. Free will is based on choice. Choice is based on the mind and the heart. How can somebody forcefully be "converted". While the heart and the mind have not been conquered. What you then get is hypocrisy. This is the BIGGEST enemy of Islam and Muslims, as these people are nothing but spies for the enemy. They will try to do everything to divide the Muslims.
About sharee'a law countries. Simple and very LOGICAL argument. WHICH country on earth right now, has currency that is according to Islamic principles? What is this currency? Gold, Silver and certain times of goods. NONE. they indeed have SOME times of laws implemented, but that doesn't mean it is 100%. Even secular law contains sharee'a law you could say. As people are allowed to worship Allah(swt) or halal slaughtering. Till now i have seen 2 things done the Islamic way so to say with ISIS.
- Removing borders (Sykes-Picot Agreement)
- Introduction of Gold and silver as legit currency.
Those are the ONLY things i have found Islamic about their rule of Law nothing else. While everything else BEGAN Islamic but like an arrow bypassed it's target very fast.
My argument always follows the logical path. If this path being illogical goes against the fitrah, i reject it. What do i mean by this? To take Indonesia as an example. Indonesia to my knowledge was NEVER conquered through offensive war. It was conquered through the fight of the heart. When i see a kid being all sad because his ball is up in a tree and i help him to get it down. This kid will thank me and respect me. This is the basic principle of the fitrah. When we follow this fitrah, 4 types of people will remain.
Type 1: Ignorant (misinformation), but honest
Type 2: Ignorant (misinformation), but dishonest
Type 3: Knowledgeable, but dishonest (as example Jews of Medina back then)
Type 4: Knowledgeable, honest (Muslims)
Type 1 and Type 2, i believe Allah(swt) already has addressed those.
"And the servants of the Most Merciful are those who walk upon the earth easily, and when the ignorant address them [harshly], they say [words of] peace," Qur'an 25:63
When type 1 sees the reaction of the Muslim, he will find it strange, that people claim these "MAHSLIMS are terrorists, however they act very respectful, while i just offended them". These people will in the end in'sha'Allah end up as Type 4 (Muslims).
When type 2 sees the reaction of the Muslims, he will not believe it and still think they are hiding something. These people are FAR FAR FAR away from the fitrah. These people will end up being used by the type 3 and will fight the Muslims. The biggest problem of these type of people is the battle they are waging with their own heart.. There is NO battle of the heart for them. They do not think..just follow their desires and that is why they lust for women and if a religion says cover yourself to the women this prevents them to fulfill their filthy desires of looking and thus becoming the enemy.
Type 3: Well these guys KNOW Islam is the truth, but because of pride or arrogance they do not want to embrace it. Copycats of iblis one could say.
Although another type exists (The hypocrites, but you all know this not necessary to talk about it).
Islam as far as i have read and tried to ponder about it and understand it, i CONTINUOUSLY came to the conclusion of conquering the heart of people. I have looked from all kind of perspectives, but offensive war like ISIS i couldn't place being compatible with the fitrah. If somebody comes to MY house and says i MUST do this or that, i will fight with ALL my strength doesn't matter if he was planning to bring some good things. If my heart is conquered, i will invite them in to my house.
I mean even looking at the whole argument of "free will" that we human beings have. Free will is based on choice. Choice is based on the mind and the heart. How can somebody forcefully be "converted". While the heart and the mind have not been conquered. What you then get is hypocrisy. This is the BIGGEST enemy of Islam and Muslims, as these people are nothing but spies for the enemy. They will try to do everything to divide the Muslims.
About sharee'a law countries. Simple and very LOGICAL argument. WHICH country on earth right now, has currency that is according to Islamic principles? What is this currency? Gold, Silver and certain times of goods. NONE. they indeed have SOME times of laws implemented, but that doesn't mean it is 100%. Even secular law contains sharee'a law you could say. As people are allowed to worship Allah(swt) or halal slaughtering. Till now i have seen 2 things done the Islamic way so to say with ISIS.
- Removing borders (Sykes-Picot Agreement)
- Introduction of Gold and silver as legit currency.
Those are the ONLY things i have found Islamic about their rule of Law nothing else. While everything else BEGAN Islamic but like an arrow bypassed it's target very fast.
Huzaifah ibn Adam
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1) At the time of the emigration to Abyssinia, the laws pertaining to Sharee`ah hadn't even been revealed yet. There was no "Sharee`ah law" yet at that time, no laws on Jihaad, nothing of the sort. So, trying to use that incident as a Daleel is a fallacy. Have you studied the laws of Naasikh wal-Mansookh? Abrogation in the Qur'aan and abrogation in the Sunnah. Some Aayaat abrogated previous Aayaat, and some Ahaadeeth abrogated previous ones. At one point in time, drinking wine was permissible. The Kutub of Fiqh are quoted because the A'immah of Islaam studied the Deen in-depth and knew which Aayaat and which Ahkaam abrogated previous ones. It is not for every Jaahil to open the Qur'aan and invent his own rulings based on what he feels, when in the first place, he isn't even reading the Qur'aan in Arabic and understanding it, he's relying on an English translation.
2) Once the Sharee`ah had been revealed and the Wahi had stopped and the Deen had been completed, there was no "going back" and "starting over". What you are trying to do is say that the Deen must go back to the 13 years and start over from there, which is a Baatil, ridiculous concept. After the Aayah about Ikmaal-ud-Deen was revealed, that is how everything stayed. The Deen does not retrogress. You cannot say that, let's go back to the 13 years, when Salaah hadn't been revealed yet, or Zakaat, and wine was permissible, etc. That is a Baatil and Kufr approach which opposes the Deen. It is not for people to make up their own rulings. The Fuqahaa and Mujtahideen have expounded upon the Qur'aan and the Ahaadeeth and codified the Deen, and explained the Deen, and Muslims have followed that path for 1,438 years. The Deen wasn't revealed yesterday. The Deen is not based on the whims and fancies of people, and what they like or dislike.
So far, all that I've seen are emotionally charged comments devoid of actual evidence. The Aayaat of Qur'aan are very clear when it comes to Jihaad. Yet, whenever those Aayaat are quoted, all the members are saying is, "I feel like this is giving a negative image to Islaam." You cannot counter a fact with a "feeling". If someone says that 1+1=2, you can't say: "That makes me uncomfortable, so I refuse to believe it." What has your being uncomfortable have to do with facts? Emotions and feelings play no part in coming to a Shar`i ruling: It's based on Qur'aan and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Salaf-us-Saaliheen.
Was-Salaam.
2) Once the Sharee`ah had been revealed and the Wahi had stopped and the Deen had been completed, there was no "going back" and "starting over". What you are trying to do is say that the Deen must go back to the 13 years and start over from there, which is a Baatil, ridiculous concept. After the Aayah about Ikmaal-ud-Deen was revealed, that is how everything stayed. The Deen does not retrogress. You cannot say that, let's go back to the 13 years, when Salaah hadn't been revealed yet, or Zakaat, and wine was permissible, etc. That is a Baatil and Kufr approach which opposes the Deen. It is not for people to make up their own rulings. The Fuqahaa and Mujtahideen have expounded upon the Qur'aan and the Ahaadeeth and codified the Deen, and explained the Deen, and Muslims have followed that path for 1,438 years. The Deen wasn't revealed yesterday. The Deen is not based on the whims and fancies of people, and what they like or dislike.
So far, all that I've seen are emotionally charged comments devoid of actual evidence. The Aayaat of Qur'aan are very clear when it comes to Jihaad. Yet, whenever those Aayaat are quoted, all the members are saying is, "I feel like this is giving a negative image to Islaam." You cannot counter a fact with a "feeling". If someone says that 1+1=2, you can't say: "That makes me uncomfortable, so I refuse to believe it." What has your being uncomfortable have to do with facts? Emotions and feelings play no part in coming to a Shar`i ruling: It's based on Qur'aan and Sunnah according to the understanding of the Salaf-us-Saaliheen.
Was-Salaam.
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Huzaifah ibn Adam
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Once the third Aayah of Soorah al-Maa'idah was revealed (Soorah 5:3), the Deen became fixed and immutable. There is no place for additions, subtractions or alterations. There is no "going back to the 13 years of Makkah". The 13 years of Makkah is over and past and will never come back. Once the Deen was completed and perfected, that is how it would remain till the Day of Qiyaamah, never changing.
Huzaifah ibn Adam
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News flash:
Everyone in South Africa pays tax. Heavy taxes. Much more than Kuffaar would pay under an Islaamic government ruled by Sharee`ah. Their Jizyah that they would pay is significantly less than the taxes people pay who live in the Kaafir lands. So, such an argument is fallacious. Muslims live under a Kaafir government and pay taxes. If the Kuffaar are living under an Islaamic government, they will pay the Jizyah, which is much less than taxes.
By which article or law of constitution the special tax for being Muslims is levied ONLY on Muslim community.......
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I'm in touch with knowledgeable ulama
you failed to prove you point.......
Simple_Person
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A couple days ago, a Christian contacted me through Private Messages under the pretext that he was confused about Islam but acknowledged Islam was the truth (afterwards it appeared that he was lying to me of acknowledging Islam to be the truth, just was here to say that Jesus was sacrificed lamb..etc. etc.). He told me, how can Allah show justice, yet be all the Merciful. This is indeed contradictory. However i assume that you also have heard of this hadith.
"Abu Huraira reported: The Messenger of Allah, peace and blessings be upon him, said, “When Allah decreed the creation, he wrote in his book with him on his throne: My mercy prevails over my wrath.”
Sahih al-Bukhari 3022, Sahih Muslim 2751
Source used: http://dailyhadith.abuaminaelias.com/2012/03/08/hadith-on-mercy-allahs-mercy-prevails-over-his-wrath/
You're path is following exactly everything to the letter without any rational thinking. What i mean by rational thinking is, Islam is not solely based on the mind and justice is it and this world belongs to Allah(swt) and thus everything needs to be taken by force. The heart is also included with judgement as mercy with us human beings comes from the heart not from the mind. If your approach is the right approach, Allah(swt) wouldn't even have fed the unbelievers one could say.
Islam is BOUND to conquer the world, based on defensive way of conquering. As one does da'wah, people in foreign nations become Muslim. When those Muslims are in danger or are oppressed, Jihad will be applied. However your way is, go to a country ..Nobody Muslim? Well we are going to conquer it anyway and we are going to shove down their throats.
We know from signs of end of times, that indeed Sharee'a will be applied worldwide even if the unbelievers don't like it. However, one must analyze and ponder about what has happened before this event takes place. For example, A LOT of injustice is happening right now and it is even increasing. Majority of humanity is aware of this. However there are people who are fine with it. They want things to stay as they are, as they themselves enjoy "the good life (following their lust, greed, materialism, lying, cheating...). This is their state of mind and don't want anything to change. For these kind of people you and me and many other people of other faiths alike, don't care what these people's opinion is, as they just want injustice and corruption to prevail.
So do not look only through one kind of perspective. I mean we all know about Umar ibn Khatab hearing a Christian man complaining ..being poor and paying taxes. After that Umar ibn Khatab even made it so that poor people of other faiths also could receive money. While your approach would be..NO..he is not a Muslim, so he cannot receive zakaat. You get what i am trying to say?
Huzaifah ibn Adam
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That's not the point. The point is this: Everyone in the world pays taxes. When Muslims live in a Kaafir country, they pay their taxes just like everyone else does. When it is an Islaamic government, the Kuffaar will pay Jizyah, and the Muslims pay Zakaah, and the Zakaah paid by the Muslims is much, Much more than the Jizyah paid by the Kuffaar. People need to understand this. The Jizyah paid by them is not as much as the taxes that we pay currently, and not only that, but the Jizyah which they pay is not as much as the Zakaah paid by the Muslims. The Muslims actually end up paying more than them in any case.
Read this:
https://islamqa.info/en/214074
And i want to drill into your mind that your country doesn't levy any taxes on you for being Muslim. And you are free to follow your religion and you are not forced to follow the religion of majority and despite all these fundamental rights you are of this mentality that all non Muslim countries should follow the Islamic laws and all non Muslims should follow Islam. What picture of Islam you are depicting..? You are proving that Muslims don't believe in concept of co existence. They can't tolerate non Muslims and non Muslim countries on this planet, they are to be forced to follow Islam....? But this fact that Islamic shariah isn't applied on non Muslims, perhaps you are unaware of.
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