Virgin birth

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:sl:

what I mean by jesus is not god is :

1. muslims believe that ISA never been in crucified.
2. the person was in crucified is not ISA. as told in history, when the kafir chase him,,ALLAH took him to the sky and rescue him from kafir.
3. so,,,a person in crucified is not ISA.
but,,,christian believe ISA was in crucified.
then,,,christian may believe JEsus is ISA. but not for muslim....:)

we believe Isa is a prophet before MUhammad. but,,he,,never change into JEsus. Sorry,,,,,

thanks
piece
dianputri
 
dianputri said:
:sl:

what I mean by jesus is not god is :

1. muslims believe that ISA never been in crucified.
2. the person was in crucified is not ISA. as told in history, when the kafir chase him,,ALLAH took him to the sky and rescue him from kafir.
3. so,,,a person in crucified is not ISA.
but,,,christian believe ISA was in crucified.
then,,,christian may believe JEsus is ISA. but not for muslim....:)

we believe Isa is a prophet before MUhammad. but,,he,,never change into JEsus. Sorry,,,,,

thanks
piece
dianputri
Click to expand...

I could understand that many Muslims prefer to use 'ISA' in English language. Because they want to differ betwen Jesus the Prophet and Jesus the God. Hey, there are some Christian Arabs prefer not to use 'ISA' in Arabic.

But most of Muslims (I think) use Jesus in English and most of Christian Arabs used 'ISA' in Arabic.
 
just read lucifer's post,
jesus was not the son of gabrielle..i didnt know there was a belief like that...
logically speaking..if jesus had a father, how could it be a virgin birth?
 
muzna said:
just read lucifer's post,
jesus was not the son of gabrielle..i didnt know there was a belief like that...
logically speaking..if jesus had a father, how could it be a virgin birth?
Click to expand...

Dont you get it?, for an immaculate virgin conception the father has to be able to give a child without actually conceiving like we humans do, therefore the angel used its supernatural powers to put a bun in the oven, you know it makes sense, jesus was created by an angel he was angelic:)
 
LUCIFER said:
Dont you get it?, for an immaculate virgin conception the father has to be able to give a child without actually conceiving like we humans do, therefore the angel used its supernatural powers to put a bun in the oven, you know it makes sense, jesus was created by an angel he was angelic:)
Click to expand...

wow,,"the da vinci code" actor is here....
 
LUCIFER said:
Dont you get it?, for an immaculate virgin conception the father has to be able to give a child without actually conceiving like we humans do, therefore the angel used its supernatural powers to put a bun in the oven, you know it makes sense, jesus was created by an angel he was angelic:)
Click to expand...
What makes you think an angel can create anything? What religion belives an angel has the power of creation? Just because angel Gabriel told Mary (AS) that she would mother a child, does not mean that he caused her to have the baby. Sounds like he's passing on a message to me.
Don't ya think?
 
Umm_Shaheed said:
What makes you think an angel can create anything? What religion belives an angel has the power of creation? Just because angel Gabriel told Mary (AS) that she would mother a child, does not mean that he caused her to have the baby. Sounds like he's passing on a message to me.
Don't ya think?
Click to expand...


even koran agrees with me have a looksie:

ANGELS THAT CAME TO MARYAM (as)

And when the angels said, 'Maryam, Allah has chosen you and purified you. He has chosen you over all other women. Maryam, obey your Lord and prostrate and bow with those who bow.' This is news from the Unseen which We reveal to you. You were not with them when they cast their reeds to see which of them would be the guardian of Maryam. You were not with them when they quarrelled. When the angels said, 'Maryam, your Lord gives you good news of a Word from Him. His name is the Messiah, 'Isa, son of Maryam, of high esteem in this world and the hereafter, and one of those brought near. He will speak to people in the cradle, and also when fully grown, and will be one of the righteous,' she said, 'My Lord! How can I have a son when no man has ever touched me?' He said, 'It will be so.' Allah creates whatever He wills. When He decides on something, He just says to it, 'Be!' and it is. (Surah Al 'Imran, 42-47)

and then abracadabra.........

JIBRIL'S DESCENT TO MARYAM IN THE FORM
of a Handsome Man

And veiled herself from them. Then We sent Our Spirit to her and it took on for her the form of a handsome, well-built man. She said, 'I seek refuge from you with the All-Merciful if you guard against evil.' He said, 'I am only your Lord's messenger so that He can give you a pure boy.' (Surah Maryam, 17-19)



LUCIFER:skeleton:
 
Obviously for the "message" to be able to give maryam a boy would require the angel to descend as a man, and for that matter he was well-built and handsome. Otherwise why even send the angel in the form of a man? And how does a message from god cause the conception? Its simple the child is pure cos its from an angel thats the logical conclusion.
 
Isa (AS) is the son of no man or angel nor is he the son of God. Mariam (AS) did not conceive Isa (AS) through intercourse with anyone hence the "virgin birth"
 
no i am not a christian its just i dont accept anyones translation of texts other than my own and this is what i concluded
 
LUCIFER said:
no i am not a christian its just i dont accept anyones translation of texts other than my own and this is what i concluded
Click to expand...

Good point. I do that quite often myself. But in my case I can blame it on the senility of old age.
 
LUCIFER said:
well i sometimes talk to myself but i would not say i was senile:)
Click to expand...

that is only a problem is if when you talk to yourself, you turn your head and say "What did you say?"
 
I don't know. This is what the Qur'an says. It doesn't comment on wheter mary was a virgin or not explicitly. But apart from christian claims, I see no reason to assume she was.

019.002
(This is) a recital of the Mercy of thy Lord to His servant Zakariya.

019.003
Behold! he cried to his Lord in secret,

019.004
Praying: "O my Lord! infirm indeed are my bones, and the hair of my head doth glisten with grey: but never am I unblest, O my Lord, in my prayer to Thee!

019.005
"Now I fear (what) my relatives (and colleagues) (will do) after me: but my wife is barren: so give me an heir as from Thyself,-

019.006
YUSUFALI: "(One that) will (truly) represent me, and represent the posterity of Jacob; and make him, O my Lord! one with whom Thou art well-pleased!"

019.007
(His prayer was answered): "O Zakariya! We give thee good news of a son: His name shall be Yahya: on none by that name have We conferred distinction before."

019.008
He said: "O my Lord! How shall I have a son, when my wife is barren and I have grown quite decrepit from old age?"

019.009
He said: "So (it will be) thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: I did indeed create thee before, when thou hadst been nothing!'"


A bit further in that same chapter:


019.016
Relate in the Book (the story of) Mary, when she withdrew from her family to a place in the East.

019.017
She placed a screen (to screen herself) from them; then We sent her our angel, and he appeared before her as a man in all respects.

019.018
She said: "I seek refuge from thee to (Allah) Most Gracious: (come not near) if thou dost fear Allah."

019.019
He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

019.020
She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

019.021
He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."

019.022
So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
 
steve said:
I don't know. This is what the Qur'an says. It doesn't comment on wheter mary was a virgin or not explicitly. But apart from christian claims, I see no reason to assume she was.

019.019
He said: "Nay, I am only a messenger from thy Lord, (to announce) to thee the gift of a holy son.

019.020
She said: "How shall I have a son, seeing that no man has touched me, and I am not unchaste?"

019.021
He said: "So (it will be): Thy Lord saith, 'that is easy for Me: and (We wish) to appoint him as a Sign unto men and a Mercy from Us':It is a matter (so) decreed."

019.022
So she conceived him, and she retired with him to a remote place.
Click to expand...
Is that highlighted sentence not a fairly clear indication that Mary is considered to have been a virgin?
How do you read it?

Peace.
 

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