Questions for atheists about origin of universe

[جوري]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

too many to count.

I like that line it reminds me of "TNTC" a left shift... WBC too numerous to count..... I have met with so few Atheists Docs. or biologists for that matter. I'd say many are non practicing but believe very much in G-D. Though an article I have just read in NEJM showed that 95% of patients have strong religious beliefs as opposed to just 65% of Doctors........... still an overwhelming majority. I think religion is very much alive and with us; and will continue until such a time when G-D lifts it from this world!

The largest cluster of Atheists that I have encountered however were in undergrad. History/philosophy and English Majors and the professors who taught the courses... I have no idea why? Probably not an accurate tally. I can never for the life of me figure out why they could spend hours with fascinated eyes discussing Amairgen, Derbforgaille, Ailill Mac Mata, Phaedera, or the Manjushri as if their whole existence rested on it over religion, Which didn't seem to hold the least bit of interest. Unless the discussions were from an Art history perspective in which case again no Annunciation painting seemed to hold a candle to (Jupiter and Io).... I guess they make for good Ice breakers and "intelligent conv?"
Lucky are those who get exposed to everything, but never get overwhelmed and still find their way I suppose......
Nice article though. I'd accept intelligent design more if Bush wasn't behind it..... Everything loses credence when his name is in its midst or when he endorses it!

 

[Joe98]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

....instead I got typical drivel, jokes, and stereotype jabs.

That's because you said religion is scientific. That destroys your credibility on this issue. There is no point contuinuing.

 

[czgibson]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Greetings,

No. Religion serves to prove science correct, not challenge it.

So why have you listed one example where science is (apparently) in agreement with the Qur'an and two where this is not so?

When scientists tried studying the atom, they found out that atom was more 99% Empty -- that was written in the Koran in reference to the weightlessness of an atom.

Scientists tried to disprove God and created the big-bang theory, but that was false -- and in the Koran it says that the creation of the Earth was a precise creation/project, not a random explosion.

What was false? Are you just making this up now?

Scientists tried their witty ways again to disprove God with Evolution -- once again proven wrong, by both their own colleagues and the Koran.

Who has proven evolution wrong? How can this bombshell have been concealed so completely from the scientific community?

You see, religion IS science! ALL you need to know is in the Koran.

Really? On its own I don't think it would be enough to get someone through primary school.

The first physicists, medicine men, and educators were Muslim -- their craft was well-tuned because they followed the Koran and made minimum error.

Now you've entered the realm of pure fantasy. Have you ever heard of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Socrates? All lived around a thousand years before the Qur'an; they were certainly not even monotheists, let alone Muslims.

Peace

 

[Trumble]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Now you've entered the realm of pure fantasy. Have you ever heard of Aristotle, Hippocrates and Socrates? All lived around a thousand years before the Qur'an; they were certainly not even monotheists, let alone Muslims.

Indeed. Not to mention the entire early Indian and Chinese civilizations. The latter developed a system of wholistic medicine that is still in widespread (and indeed increasing) use today. The influence of those Greeks and others still resonates throughout the world with regard to those three fields and most others - as it heavily influenced the early muslim thinkers of all varieties. Apart from matters of pure theology and law, rather more than the Qur'an, actually.

 

[wilberhum]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Indeed. Not to mention the entire early Indian and Chinese civilizations. The latter developed a system of wholistic medicine that is still in widespread (and indeed increasing) use today.

Now, now boys, don't break his bubble. :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:

 

[Allah-creation]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

The fact that the Quran is 100 percent gods words and no one can disprove it not even a single part if it is enough evidence for me 2 believe islam is the true religion.

 

[IzakHalevas]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

The fact that the Quran is 100 percent gods words and no one can disprove it not even a single part if it is enough evidence for me 2 believe islam is the true religion.

Well I believe the Torah to be 100% words of Allaah and I believe no one can disprove a single verse. They can believe they have by misinterpreting it but will not in REALITY prove it wrong.

Look at that. We have two conflicting views.

 

[Trumble]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

In both cases, you can "prove" or "disprove" neither.. even in the hopelessly loose sense with which those words are often used on this forum. Religion is about faith and belief, not "proof". If there was "proof" that the Qur'an, say, really was the Word of God anybody sane would be a muslim. Muslims believe that it is, but nobody can "prove" it.

 

[جوري]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

- as it heavily influenced the early muslim thinkers of all varieties. Apart from matters of pure theology and law, rather more than the Qur'an, actually.

How do you know early Muslim scholars were influenced by these cultures? I'll use Suramin for an analogy-- and because I am willing to gamble that you have no clue what it is! Surely Suramin has existed since 1916..... C51H34N6O23S6... you could find out about it through its discoverer Oskar Dressel with all our high speed internet his is not a name readily known.......... or you can discover it in your lab all by your lonesome. Very possible if the course of ailment were prevelant in your area and you being a man of sci. were looking for means to remedy it! if you were cut off from the world in desert land there is a strong possibility it is your own finding and not borrowed in the (case of Quranic science) consider the possibility? consider it even more knowing that modern technology wasn't available then. i.e high speed internet, phones, computers, etc moreover, he who brought us the Quran was illitrate.......
http://www.1001inventions.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=main.viewSection&intSectionID=309

Now, now boys, don't break his bubble. :giggling: :giggling: :giggling:

Be careful with all that undue giggling lest the rest of us mistake you for having happy puppet syndrome.... thank you for teaching us all about Uniparental Disomies.......... it is nice to stroke others' ego, it is even nicer to come up with your own anaolgies......
peace!

 

[Trumble]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

How do you know early Muslim scholars were influenced by these cultures?

The only 'culture' I mentioned in that context was Greek (and Roman, by implication). India and China I mentioned solely in relation to the rather ludicrous claim there had been no 'physicists', physicians or educators prior to Islam. By 'scholars' I assume you mean people in those fields rather than those skilled in Qur'anic interpretation and Islamic jurisprudence.

The most important piece of evidence is simply that many of the most significant works of the Greek philosophers and scholars are still around. It was Islamic civilization that preserved them during the Dark Ages in the West, and it is hard to believe that was done if nobody was influenced by them. Most, if not all, of the work of the great muslim scientists and mathematicians can be traced back to those roots.

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Well I believe the Torah to be 100% words of Allaah and I believe no one can disprove a single verse. They can believe they have by misinterpreting it but will not in REALITY prove it wrong.

Look at that. We have two conflicting views.

Wont God judge between us on the Day of Judgement? We'll see who was on the Truth then.
52: 31. Say (O Muhammad

to them): "Wait! I am with you, among the waiters!"

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

I do not believe in the Torah because I can prove it is 100% accurate. No one can do that for any book. It is a matter of BELIEF.

we can do it for the quran, it is indeed a 100%.


zaalikal kitaabulaa raybaafih !

it is a book in which is no doubt !

 

[جوري]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

The most important piece of evidence is simply that many of the most significant works of the Greek philosophers and scholars are still around. It was Islamic civilization that preserved them during the Dark Ages in the West, and it is hard to believe that was done if nobody was influenced by them. Most, if not all, of the work of the great muslim scientists and mathematicians can be traced back to those roots.

That isn't evidence it is a conjecture!

 

[lavikor201]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

we can do it for the quran, it is indeed a 100%.

And I say I can do it for the Torah. it is indeed 100%.

Now we are at a crossroad again. One o us must be wrong, and we have an awnser for every argument against our Holy books... maybe its faith, not proof.

I have enough faith, to not care about prooving anything to you. Something you may be lacking.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

I have enough faith, to not care about prooving anything to you. Something you may be lacking.

not really, its because everything in our religion makes sense, all it requires is to read it properly, other religions seem far more confusing. Only the few mislead ones CLEARLY purposely misinterpret our text !

 

[lavikor201]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

not really, its because everything in our religion makes sense, all it requires is to read it properly, other religions seem far more confusing. Only the few mislead ones CLEARLY purposely misinterpret our text !

Not really, the Torah is very easy to understand. It is just butchered and mistranslated by people who wish to disprove it, but cannot. What you must do is read the whole Torah and then go back and see if you understand a concept that is foreign to you that now, which used to make you think the Torah is crazy, is completly nessesary.

Ansar Al Adr has to explain with paragraphs many single verses of the Quran which do not make sense to readers who believe they may be contradictory, so therefore, I would not say your scriptures are "easier" to understand then mine.

Peace!

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Not really, the Torah is very easy to understand. It is just butchered and mistranslated by people who wish to disprove it, but cannot. What you must do is read the whole Torah and then go back and see if you understand a concept that is foreign to you that now, which used to make you think the Torah is crazy, is completly nessesary.

Ansar Al Adr has to explain with paragraphs many single verses of the Quran which do not make sense to readers who believe they may be contradictory, so therefore, I would not say your scriptures are "easier" to understand then mine.

Peace!

yes he has to explain the translations to people not the original arabic text !

 

[Malaikah]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

Scientists tried to disprove God and created the big-bang theory, but that was false -- and in the Koran it says that the creation of the Earth was a precise creation/project, not a random explosion.

Umm... who said the big bang was random?? what happened after the big bang was incredible complex and requires extreme precision when it came to particles interacting with each other and balancing out and so forth in order to produce what we have today!! no randomness at all! :rollseyes

anyway i thought some people liked the big bang idea because there is a verse that talks about expansion of the heavens or something? :? and one proof of the big bang is that the universe is expanding...

Scientists tried their witty ways again to disprove God with Evolution -- once again proven wrong, by both their own colleagues and the Koran.

you know whats weird, the only thing, to the best of my knowlegde (someone please correct me if im wrong), that islam proves wrong about evolution, is that idea that humans evolved from a inferior lifeform. we know that humans were created directly, through adam...

but allah swt doesnt say anything about how he created other animals plants and living organisms, therefore, it is possible that they evolved from a single cell, as suggested by the theory of evolution, with gods 'permission' of course!

there are heaps of examples of evolution that have been observed, natural selection and so forth... survival of the fittest, these arent weird concepts, they explain what has been observed in reality and i can give you an example of natural selection if really want...

that said, the theory of evolution is still a theory, it could be correct for non-human living things, or it could not- thats why its called a theory! allahu a'lam!

 

[Ibn Abi Ahmed]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

I have enough faith, to not care about prooving anything to you. Something you may be lacking.

Rathar on the contrary, we believe that our faith is the Truth and the only way to be succesful, therefore we want to get the message to everyone, as many people as possible, so they can be succesful as well. Our job is only to convey to you the message, become Muslim is up to you. No one will force you there.

This is not a lack of faith, it is in fact the greatest faith because we want others to recognize the Truth of Islam and also because we want others to enter Paradise. We do not hold ourselves above everyone else as the "chosen people", but we believe that Islam is the only religion with God and the only religion that He will accept, therefore it is our job like it was the job of the Prophets to guide people to the Truth. After all, there can be only one Truth isnt it? And what is there after Truth but falsehood?

Peace

 

[Trumble]

Re: INTELLIGENT DESIGN: A Question for Atheists

After all, there can be only one Truth isnt it? And what is there after Truth but falsehood?

Peace

There can only be on Truth, but many of us believe there are multiple possible, and equally valid, interpretations and experiences of it. If you get too hung up on one, spiritual growth stagnates IMVHO.