The Feminists

Its funny that you and KAding are operating under the same stereotypical generalizations of women that feminists seek to eliminate! As Snakelegs pointed out earlier, women are just as capable of contributing to military conflict. There are just as many racists, bigoted, hateful women as men. Secondly, many wars are fought for the liberation of the oppressed and the preservation of security, hence pacifism in such cases would be destructive. The ruler must be strong willed and not easily manipulated in order to maintain law and order.
I wonder how many stats I could gather showing that men are more violent than women. But then you already know that.
 
I wonder how many stats I could gather showing that men are more violent than women. But then you already know that.
:sl:
The reson why there have been more violent male leaders than female leaders is because there have not been many female leaders! The female leaders that are famous have been just as violent and warlike as men:
  • Elizabeth I destroyed the Spanish Armada, then sent her own (failed and not well-known) armada to conquer Spain
  • Condi is certainly just as warlike as the other Neocons
  • Boudiccia burnt down Roman London
  • Cleopatra went to war with the Romans
  • Joan of Arc kicked the British out of France
:w:
 
:sl:
The reson why there have been more violent male leaders than female leaders is because there have not been many female leaders! The female leaders that are famous have been just as violent and warlike as men:
  • Elizabeth I destroyed the Spanish Armada, then sent her own (failed and not well-known) armada to conquer Spain
  • Condi is certainly just as warlike as the other Neocons
  • Boudiccia burnt down Roman London
  • Cleopatra went to war with the Romans
  • Joan of Arc kicked the British out of France
:w:
Oh Fishman, I thought better of you. Five examples. Of course women can be violent. Violence is not a male chiastic, it is a human chiastic. Do I need to produce states on violent crimes to show that men are more violent than women? Surely you are not that narrow minded. :hiding: :hiding:
 
I'm all for the feminism that says women and men should receive equal pay for equal work, equal enfranchisement of both men and women, etc. That's excellent, fair and just. It's one of the good things about living in the UK.

However, I despise the so-called 'feminism' which allows women to subjugate men as some sort of revenge. That is unfair, unjust and unthinkable as black people enslaving white people.
 
I'm all for the feminism that says women and men should receive equal pay for equal work, equal enfranchisement of both men and women, etc. That's excellent, fair and just. It's one of the good things about living in the UK.

However, I despise the so-called 'feminism' which allows women to subjugate men as some sort of revenge. That is unfair, unjust and unthinkable as black people enslaving white people.

However, I despise anyone who wants to subjugate anybody.
 
However, I despise anyone who wants to subjugate anybody.
As do I. True equality is not about arguing that 'men are more violent than women' or 'women are more violent than men' - ideally, nobody would be violent.

It's sad that us mortals have yet to learn this.
 
Oh Fishman, I thought better of you. Five examples. Of course women can be violent. Violence is not a male chiastic, it is a human chiastic. Do I need to produce states on violent crimes to show that men are more violent than women? Surely you are not that narrow minded. :hiding: :hiding:
:sl:
I can't think of many notable woman leaders. The ones that I can think of are just as violent as men. there are exceptions to this, such as the Queen of England, but most of them are not very powerful anyway.

Besides, I wasn't saying that women are just as violent as men. I agree that male hormones can make people more agressive. But I am arguing against people's ideas that a 'girlocracy' would be more peaceful than the current system. Power corrupts people, whatever their gender. And, unfortunately, agressive leaders tend to come to power, not the pacifists, because agressive people are usually agressive speakers, and firey retoric is a very effective electorial tool. If Hitler spoke nicely, people would have figured out that he was speaking rubbish. But he didn't, he marched around shouting his point out, which swayed the masses.
:w:
 
Muslim feminists are such an embarrassment to the ummah, they bring shame upon themselves and to the rest of us, they just dont have a clue where to begin understanding the true beauty of Islam and how Allah has made it easy for us..yet the go on to take up positions in this ever fleeting duniyah, what do they get out of this? apart from their hayaa being lost and their sins being increased...may Allah save the muslimaat from such deceptions and help us all adhere to the correct islamic teachings and guide us all on the straight path... Ameen.
 
Muslim feminists are such an embarrassment to the ummah, they bring shame upon themselves and to the rest of us, they just dont have a clue where to begin understanding the true beauty of Islam and how Allah has made it easy for us..yet the go on to take up positions in this ever fleeting duniyah, what do they get out of this? apart from their hayaa being lost and their sins being increased...may Allah save the muslimaat from such deceptions and help us all adhere to the correct islamic teachings and guide us all on the straight path... Ameen.

Judging a group by the actions of a few eh? Pretty odd, since you probably do not like generalizations made towards you.
 
Ameen to the dua's sis


Judging a group by the actions of a few eh? Pretty odd, since you probably do not like generalizations made towards you.


if a muslim calls him/herself a feminist then they have already lost the plot and lost the islamic way. She has made no generalisation but just stated facts, you should really try understand better before accusing her next time :).


:peace:
 
Ameen to the dua's sis

if a muslim calls him/herself a feminist then they have already lost the plot and lost the islamic way. She has made no generalisation but just stated facts, you should really try understand better before accusing her next time :).


:peace:

Feminism: Belief in women's rights: belief in the need to secure rights and opportunities for women equal to those of men, or a commitment to securing these.
It is interesting to know that female equality is un-Islamic.
 
wilberhum, it isn't. It is a shame that some people have a warped definition of what it means to be a feminist in their heads.
 
It is interesting to know that female equality is un-Islamic.

welldone word twisting dude.


how many times must i say men and women are not equal however each of them is treated with justice. Men have their strengths and women have their strengths and islam teaches us to both use our strengths for the better and not be like each other. it teaches a perfect balance, for further information read the posts by Ahmed.

In islam there is perfect equity, in what other religion can a women stay covered yet so content?
 
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Oh ya I get the point. Horrable women wanting equality.

lol, your understanding is totally messed up.

They are both given their rights and have equity BUT calling them both equal is implying that they both have the same physique, same strength, same hormones/mind/body/feelings etc etc. No they are both completely different, and islam teaches us how to teach each one according to there strengths!


didnt i just mention that, please read next time :)
 
lol, your understanding is totally messed up.

They are both given their rights and have equity BUT calling them both equal is implying that they both have the same physique, same strength, same hormones/mind/body/feelings etc etc. No they are both completely different, and islam teaches us how to teach each one according to there strengths!


didnt i just mention that, please read next time :)

But I don't live in Islam, I live in the US.
In this and most countries, discrimination is illegal.
 
Woman’s Cause
Shaykh Saud Ash-Shuraym
23, Rabee‘ul-aakhir 1425 (11, June 2004)

All praise is due to Allaah, Lord of all the worlds. Peace and blessings be upon the Messenger, his household and companions.

Fellow Muslims! Allaah has made man and woman the foundation of mankind. No one can live without the other. If not, there would not have been procreation. That is why Allaah reminds us of this blessings when He says,

“It is He Who has created you from a single person (Adam), and (then) He has created from him his wife (Hawwâ' (Eve)) in order that he might enjoy the pleasure of living with her.”

(Al-A‘raaf 7:189)


Woman is undoubtedly, the source of stability for man and the family, not to talk of her being the half of the society. It is she that also gives birth to the other half. It is as if she is the entire society.

Dear brethren! The cause of woman is an all-important topic that is inevitable for the contemporary Muslim society. It is at the same time, a very delicate topic that is prone to errors, desires, strong environmental impacts and objective differences.

It is actually unfair to discuss woman and all matters relating to her in this short khutbah. But it is better than not saying anything at all about her.

We are saying this at a time that the woman issue has become the sole preoccupation of many especially in this time that the Ummah is facing kinds of injustices, oppression, poverty, ideological perversion and suppression from the enemies. Yet no tangible solution to this myriad of problems is seen in sight.

We are hereby calling on all those who are talking about woman’s cause to take the following factors into consideration in order to avoid going astray and innovating what Allaah has not permitted and what none of our righteous successors had not done.

One: It should be firmly borne in mind that the only source of determining the identity of both and female and deciding things they share in common and things in which they differ and the responsibilities of each of them is the Book of Allaah and the Sunnah of His Messenger, and not men’s opinions and their desires. It should also be remembered that contradicting anything from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah is tantamount to challenging the One Who revealed Islaam. Allaah says,

“Do they then seek the judgement of (the Days of) Ignorance? And who is better in judgement than Allaah for a people who have firm Faith.”

(Al-Maaidah 5:50)

Therefore, there should be no way for a vicious twisting of Islaamic criteria and giving them other names, like calling woman’s modesty, bashfulness and covering an obsolete and unjustifiable tradition by which woman is repressed.

Two: All sincere and true followers of the religion of Islaam should stop those writers whose only intention is to attack the values of this Ummah or turn them into an object of derision at the hand of lust worshippers or those who hate what Allaah revealed. Those who use their pens and tongues to drown the ship of this Ummah and deceive the Muslims into believing that the only way to scientific, industrial and cultural progress lies in adopting Western experiment on women. The fact of the matter is that the no-Muslim countries who clamour for the so-called liberation of Muslim women and those who mimic them among other nations have, in reality, very little to show for what they clamour for. Realities in their own countries are a stark contradiction of the huge noise they make about the Muslim world. The highest achievement they achieved in their own countries regarding women liberation did not exceed electing few women into parliaments or appointing one or two as ministers, while deceiving the simple-minded people into a belief that the woman has achieved a lot in their own societies.

More surprising is the fact that, in the constitutions of some of these so-called developed countries, woman is forbidden from being head of state. What moral right do these countries then have to call for women liberation?

This should not however be surprising, for it seems that these infidel countries understood the following Prophetic statement more than the so-called Muslim advocates of women liberation. The Prophet said, “Any nation that appoints a woman as its leader will not succeed.” (Al-Bukhaaree)

In a version reported by Ahmad, the Messenger of Allaah said, “The men are ruined whenever they follow the women.”

Dear brethren! What the reality shows is that the greatest achievement of those countries in which women have been ‘liberated’ is that she has been turned into a humiliated commodity in brothels or images in musical clips or mere bodies displayed to advertise goods.

Three: Using the word ‘freedom’ or ‘liberation’ in every issue relating to women have become an instrument in the hands of ignorant, deluded and evil-intentioned people who seek to disintegrate the Muslims’ social cohesion. It has actually becomes a door through which the enemy throws his time bomb, because to the term ‘freedom’ has a magical way of deluding the masses especially the teenagers. The strangest thing is the three phases that the advocates of so-called women liberation want to use to liberate the woman from her self-enslavement through adherence to the teachings of Islaam.

The first phase is exemplified by their assertion that they are responsible for treating the problems that occur among the Muslims, and that no view would be accepted if it contradicts their own way of reasoning. Their proof for this is the wide intellectual and cultural difference that is between them and ordinary citizens.

In the second phase, they claim that their write-ups and essays indicate their sincerity to and sense of compassion for the Ummah, in that they are calling for truth and knowledge. They assert that knowledge is a product of freedom and that if there is no freedom from previous ideologies, the desired goal cannot be achieved.

In the third phase, these self-styled intellectuals establish that that everything should be subjected to free scientific research; and their word ‘everything’ exclude nothing, even our belief, teachings and our virtuous heritage.

These phases undoubtedly seem attractive to simple-minded individuals. But the sooner they know that they are like smoke released by the enemy to disguise their invasion the better.

Four: There is no society that toyed with the issue of woman and her values and cast doubt on the Islaamic regulations laid down for her protection and sought to undermine those qualities with which she is distinguished from and qualities with which man is distinguished from her except that the society incurred on itself evils and woes and Allaah afflicted it with what it is trying to escape from. The Messenger of Allaah was right when he said, “I have not left a fitnah for the men of my Ummah greater than women.” (Al-Bukhaaree and Muslim)

He also said, “Beware of this worldly life and beware of women, for the first fitnah faced by the children of Israel was in women.” (Muslim)

Brethren in faith! Let us recall the incidence of the famous Dhee Qaar Battle, which is one of the fiercest battles of pre-Islamic period. This battle was initiated because of a woman whom Chosroe wanted to marry and Nu‘maan refused to let him marry her. Another example was the Jewish conspiracy to remove hijaab from the head of a Muslim woman in the market of Banoo Qaynuqaa during the time of Allaah’s Messenger.

Five: The Islaamic religion will never accept extremism in matters relating to woman. Never will Islaam condone the woman being humiliated or relegated to the margins of life. Neither will it accept her being led to moral degeneration. Both paths are extreme. The Ummah should not tolerate the pessimistic bigots nor should it give a chance to those who toy with religious values.

The Muslim Ummah is not a nation that suppresses woman and deny her her rights, though some bigots may support their negative attitude to women with spurious hadeeths like, “Obeying a woman brings about a regret.” On the other hand, it should not allow those who seek to lure woman out of her nature through deceit and lies. These elements also support their deviated ideology with fake narrations like, “Take your religion from this humayraa [meaning: ‘Aaishah].”

The proper thing is to maintain a moderate stand, which is just and fair. Whatever has a proof from the Qur’aan and the Sunnah is the truth even if it followed by a single person, and whatever contradicts them is falsehood even if it followed by the vast majority.

It is also a big error to claim that conciliation could made between those who call woman to observe the proper Islaamic covering and those who call her to abandon the hijaab, to shamelessly expose herself and to do away with modesty. Allaah says about those who try to reconcile between these two groups,

“(They are) swaying between this and that, belonging neither to these nor to those; and he whom Allaah sends astray, you will not find for him a way (to the truth - Islaam).”

(An-Nisaa 4:143)

Fellow Muslims! Fear Allaah and beware of innovations for every innovation is heresy and every heresy is misguidance. Allaah says,

“O you who believe! Ward off from yourselves and your families a Fire (Hell) whose fuel is men and stones, over which are (appointed) angels stern (and) severe, who disobey not, (from executing) the Commands they receive from Allaah, but do that which they are commanded.”

(At-Tahreem 66:6)

Brethren in Islaam! The sixth factor is specially related to woman. Her job in this life and in the society is not based on enslaving her or exploiting her body. The woman rather has rights in the society and family. She has right to attend mosques, she has right to eliminate illiteracy, she has right to give and receive admonition and in receiving and imparting knowledge and education. She has right to enjoin virtues and forbid vices. She has right to improve herself whenever she has a job that is suitable for her naturally and religiously like in the fields of useful knowledge and righteous deeds. For the Ummah is in dire need of female Muslim teachers, Muslim female nurses and doctors and Muslim female writers. The woman herself needs to fill her head with knowledge and righteous sciences and not to strip her head and her body naked and to regard her religion with displeasure.

The job of the woman in the society shall remain critical and delicate, and no negligence or bitter experiment shall be tolerated on her. The entire society is also required to maintain honours and not to toy with them. The successful nation is the one capable of striking a balance between these noble goals for woman and the society’s needs. It does not put in a guilty cage nor does it leave her free to become prey to sins and immoralities.

The final factor, dear brethren, is that, it has to be made clear that a call for equality between male and female in all aspects of life is like a call for impossibility. The true Muslim believes that Allaah created both man and woman and created for each, peculiar qualities. He only made man excelled over woman with a degree. He says,

“And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allaah is All-Mighty, All-Wise.”

(Al-Baqarah 2:228)

Allaah distinguished man with prophethood, political leadership, administration of the law, leadership in prayer, fighting in the way of Allaah, marrying without a guardian, power of divorce, having double of what woman has in some cases of inheritance, the fact that the child carries man’s name, permission to marry up to four wives and the fact that his testimony equals that of two women.

Imaam Ahmad reported that Umm Salamah asked the Messenger of Allaah, “O Allaah’s Messenger, why do men engage in jihad and we [women] do not? Why are we apportioned the half of [of a male’s share] in inheritance?” Thereupon, Allaah revealed the verse:

“And wish not for the things in which Allaah has made some of you to excel others. For men there is reward for what they have earned, (and likewise) for women there is reward for what they have earned, and ask Allaah of His Bounty. Surely, Allaah is Ever All-Knower of everything.”

(An-Nisaa 4:32)

Al-Qurtubee said, “Man’s virtue over woman is clear for every wise person. Had there been no evidence for this besides a fact that she is created from man and that he is her origin and she is prevented from undertaking anything without his permission that would have been enough.”

Dear brethren! The excellence of man does not, however, mean looking down upon woman and discriminating against her. Nor does this mean that every man is better every woman. It is an established principle that declaring a thing as better than another does not mean degrading the latter. The Qur’aan is entirely the word of Allaah, yet the Messenger of Allaah said that ‘Aayah al-Kursiyy’ is the best verse in the Qur’aan, as reported by Muslim.

Also the Messengers and Prophets also excelled one another. Allaah says,

“We have preferred some of the Prophets above others.”

(Al-Israa 17:55)

This verse does not however mean that the status of the Messengers and the Prophets above whom others are preferred.

Fellow Muslims! Having mentioned evidences on men’s excellences over women, we are also asserting, in the light of the evidences of the Qur’aan and the Sunnah, that women are halves of men. They are equal to men in matters of belief and morals. They are equal to them in their entitlement to reward and punishment.

We are also asserting the falsehood and injustice of a statement being a male augments one’s scale of good deeds and that being a female decreases one’s scale of good deeds. This statement vividly contradicts the saying of Allaah,

“Verily, the most honourable of you with Allaah is most pious. Verily, Allaah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.”

(Al-Hujuraat 49:13)

Real life experiences have shown that woman can be better than many men as in the case of the mothers of the faithful and those who were after them. Being a male or female is not a criterion for weighing deeds on the Day of Resurrection. As femininity is not an imperfection for the sun so does masculinity is not a source of pride for the moon. And as the saying goes, a lioness in her jungle is better and stronger than a cock among the fowl.

Therefore, the fundamental rule in this matter lies in Allaah’s word that goes says,

“Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allaah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient (to Allaah and to their husbands), and guard in the husband's absence what Allaah orders them to guard (e.g. their chastity, their husband's property).”

(An-Nisaa 4:34)
 
what do u mean by discrimination??
Discrimination: treating people differently through prejudice: unfair treatment of one person or group, usually because of prejudice about race, ethnicity, age, religion, or gender
If you don’t give a woman the same rights as a man because of her gender, that is gender discrimination.

No matter how you cut it, no matter how you try to justify it, it is gender discrimination.
 

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