message in Christianity

[Eric H]

Greetings and peace be with you vpb;

I think there have been some good answers so far, but here is my two cents,

1.what criteria do you use (in christianity) to define if a message is a true message from God ?

Jesus said all the law and the prophets hang on the greatest commandments. Anything that a prophet teaches must depend on loving God with all your heart, soul, mind and strength. And loving your neighbour as you love yourself.

If a prophet teaches us do anything that goes against these two commandments then this would seem to be the message of a false prophet.

2.and also if you say that Jesus was crucified to pay with his blood the sins of the people, then what happened to the people that died before Jesus came? Do they go to hell or heaven?

I believe that the life death and resurrection of Jesus was planned by God before the creation of the universe began. His plan was to include all mankind.

3. and also did the prophets that are mentioned in Bible teach trinity? (i'm refering to the prophets before Jesus was born).

Jesus said, if you know me you know the Father. I and the Father are one. I am one with the Father.

I believe that this tells us about the relationship that Jesus has with the Father.

In the spirit of searching for God

Eric

 

[AbuAbdallah]

I appreciate the responses.

Do Christians believe in their deeds being scaled on the Day of Judgement?

Is there a logical explanation for Jesus dying for people's sins but not really dying? How can someones sins be wiped away because of someone else's death? Is there any logical explanation, or is just a 'blind faith' type of belief?
Once again, I appreciate the responses.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Do Christians believe in their deeds being scaled on the Day of Judgement?

Jesus tells this parable as an illustration of the Judgment Day:

Matthew 25
31"When the Son of Man comes in his glory, and all the angels with him, he will sit on his throne in heavenly glory. 32All the nations will be gathered before him, and he will separate the people one from another as a shepherd separates the sheep from the goats. 33He will put the sheep on his right and the goats on his left.
34"Then the King will say to those on his right, 'Come, you who are blessed by my Father; take your inheritance, the kingdom prepared for you since the creation of the world. 35For I was hungry and you gave me something to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me something to drink, I was a stranger and you invited me in, 36I needed clothes and you clothed me, I was sick and you looked after me, I was in prison and you came to visit me.'

37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

41"Then he will say to those on his left, 'Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. 42For I was hungry and you gave me nothing to eat, I was thirsty and you gave me nothing to drink, 43I was a stranger and you did not invite me in, I needed clothes and you did not clothe me, I was sick and in prison and you did not look after me.'

44"They also will answer, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry or thirsty or a stranger or needing clothes or sick or in prison, and did not help you?'

45"He will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did not do for one of the least of these, you did not do for me.'

46"Then they will go away to eternal punishment, but the righteous to eternal life."

So you see that deeds are important, but that it isn't a weighing of good deeds vs bad deeds.

As I see it, basically real believers will do good works as an expression of their faith and thankfulness to God for his mercy, and will try to serve Christ in all they do. Then there are those who do good deeds not out of joy or thankfulness but only to earn their way into heaven, will fail to see Christ in their midst and will be cut off because their deeds while looking good on the outside are really evil, done out of pure selfishness.

Is there a logical explanation for Jesus dying for people's sins but not really dying?

I'm confused by this question. What do you mean, dying but not really dying? Jesus really does die according to Christian teaching.

How can someones sins be wiped away because of someone else's death? Is there any logical explanation, or is just a 'blind faith' type of belief?

OK. I'm going to sound almost like a heretic here, but I don't understand the logic of it either.

It carries over from the way it appears that God had blood sacrifices set up in the Old Covenant with the nation of Israel. In them, the Jews were told to present sacrifices at the temple as sin offerings. Lambs in particular were to offered at Passover. Also at Yom Kippur, the Jewish Day of Atonement, there is both sin offerings (always by sacrificing animals) and the sending forth of the scapegoat, of which the sins of the entire community are transferred to a goat that is sent out into the wilderness.

Scripture tells us that without the shedding of blood there is no forgiveness. The problem with the temple sacrifices is that they could never permamently take away sin. So they had to be continually repeated. But Christians understand in Jesus there is a perfect offering, and so it is done once for all.

Heberws 9
11When Christ came as high priest of the good things that are already here, he went through the greater and more perfect tabernacle that is not man-made, that is to say, not a part of this creation. 12He did not enter by means of the blood of goats and calves; but he entered the Most Holy Place once for all by his own blood, having obtained eternal redemption. 13The blood of goats and bulls and the ashes of a heifer sprinkled on those who are ceremonially unclean sanctify them so that they are outwardly clean. 14How much more, then, will the blood of Christ, who through the eternal Spirit offered himself unblemished to God, cleanse our consciences from acts that lead to death,[c] so that we may serve the living God!

26b But now he has appeared once for all at the end of the ages to do away with sin by the sacrifice of himself.

28so Christ was sacrificed once to take away the sins of many people; and he will appear a second time, not to bear sin, but to bring salvation to those who are waiting for him.

I guess I accept by blind faith that all of this is really the way God has chosen to work, even though I don't understand why he set it up this way as opposed to some other.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

What I meant was that you believe that Jesus was resurrected, so he didn't die for your sins, it was more like he was killed for your sins...I think.
Anyways, I appreciate your responses.

 

[AbuAbdallah]

Another question,
Do Christians believe the Bible to be the same as when it was written, or do you believe that the Bible has been changed over time?

 

[dougmusr]

What I meant was that you believe that Jesus was resurrected, so he didn't die for your sins, it was more like he was killed for your sins...I think.
Anyways, I appreciate your responses.

I would say that Jesus, by choosing to follow God's purpose for His life knowing full well that the outcome of His obedience would be the cross, in fact died for our sins.

 

[Skillganon]

I would say that Jesus, by choosing to follow God's purpose for His life knowing full well that the outcome of His obedience would be the cross, in fact died for our sins.

But he did not die.
He was alive was he not?

What I mean, people saw him alive after the suppposed crucifixion.

 

[NoName55]

I would say that Jesus, by choosing to follow God's purpose for His life knowing full well that the outcome of His obedience would be the cross, in fact died for our sins.

I'm more confused now, are we now saying That Christ, Definitely, is not G-d but clearly someone who obeys and serves The Creator

Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

Another question,
Do Christians believe the Bible to be the same as when it was written, or do you believe that the Bible has been changed over time?

It has changed very much over time. First it was just the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible. Then over time, the writings of the prophets were added until one had a complete Tanakh, or Old Testament. This collection of the Law and the Prophets was what early Christians thought of when they thought of the Bible. Then, came the letters of the New Testament by Paul, Peter, James, and John. Which over time they began to accept as also inspired scripture. And then lastly the Gospels and book of Revelation were written and accepted.

I do not think that it has changed, other than minor copyists errors since its completion toward the end of the apostolic age. But, I do recognize that it took about another 100 years before all the churches were in consensus as to which of the various independent writings (there was nothing in book form) in circulation amongst the church were appropriately called scripture. (This by the way would have been nearly a century before Nicea, which many people mistakenly think determined the books of the Bible.)

 

[Skillganon]

It has changed very much over time. First it was just the Torah, the first 5 books of the Bible. Then over time, the writings of the prophets were added until one had a complete Tanakh, or Old Testament. This collection of the Law and the Prophets was what early Christians thought of when they thought of the Bible. Then, came the letters of the New Testament by Paul, Peter, James, and John. Which over time they began to accept as also inspired scripture. And then lastly the Gospels and book of Revelation were written and accepted.

I do not think that it has changed, other than minor copyists errors since its completion toward the end of the apostolic age. But, I do recognize that it took about another 100 years before all the churches were in consensus as to which of the various independent writings (there was nothing in book form) in circulation amongst the church were appropriately called scripture. (This by the way would have been nearly a century before Nicea, which many people mistakenly think determined the books of the Bible.)

You might add that later came the protestant and took some books out.

 

[dougmusr]

salaam,
Question for the Christians:
If Jesus died for your sins, then can a Christian do whatever they please and still be free from sin as long as they believe that Jesus is their savior???

Mt 22:1 And Jesus answered and spoke to them again by parables and said:
2 "The kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who arranged a marriage for his son, 3 "and sent out his servants to call those who were invited to the wedding; and they were not willing to come. 4 "Again, he sent out other servants, saying, 'Tell those who are invited, "See, I have prepared my dinner; my oxen and fatted cattle are killed, and all things are ready. Come to the wedding." ' 5 "But they made light of it and went their ways, one to his own farm, another to his business. 6 "And the rest seized his servants, treated them spitefully, and killed them. 7 "But when the king heard about it, he was furious. And he sent out his armies, destroyed those murderers, and burned up their city. 8 "Then he said to his servants, 'The wedding is ready, but those who were invited were not worthy. 9 'Therefore go into the highways, and as many as you find, invite to the wedding.' 10 "So those servants went out into the highways and gathered together all whom they found, both bad and good. And the wedding hall was filled with guests. 11 "But when the king came in to see the guests, he saw a man there who did not have on a wedding garment.
12 "So he said to him, 'Friend, how did you come in here without a wedding garment?' And he was speechless. 13 "Then the king said to the servants, 'Bind him hand and foot, take him away, and cast him into outer darkness; there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth.' 14 "For many are called, but few are chosen."

Notice that in this parable, the king invited everyone to the wedding feast, which Jesus says represents the Kingdom of Heaven. Nothing is said about the righteousness of the people who attended except that tere were both bad and good. The only thing we know is that they were given an invitation and accepted it. Notice also that of all who came, only a person who showed up dressed inappropriately for the occasion was thrown out. It is my opinion that the Bible teaches that this wedding attire is to be dressed in the righteousness of Christ. It is entirely possible that the person who was ejected in fact had done more good than some who were not ejected.

In the above parable, to a Muslim the one inappropriately dressed would be the one who believes that Jesus is the Son of God. To a Christian, being inappropriately dress would be disbelieving that Jesus is the Son of God. In any case, notice that the duty of the King's servants is to invite everybody to the feast. It is the King's perogative to turn away those who do not meet the final criteria for admission.

 

[Grace Seeker]

You might add that later came the protestant and took some books out.

No, not really.

The books you referring to are known as the apochrypha. They are collections of Jewish writings, not Christian writings. And they were never part of the Hebrew bible. That is why Protestants do not include them. The reason that Catholics do is that they were other valued, but not sacred writings, kept with the scrolls of the Old Testament by the early church, and when the collection was finally put into book form, they added them in the book also, but they were never considered of equal wait with scripture. But the Catholic church loves tradition and they are definitely part of the tradition of the church. However, Catholics and Protestants view their canonicity pretty much the same, meaning they are not canonical.

 

[Grace Seeker]

What I meant was that you believe that Jesus was resurrected, so he didn't die for your sins, it was more like he was killed for your sins...I think.
Anyways, I appreciate your responses.

You resucitiated people who are not quite dead. Resurrection is the term for people who have really, genuinely died, and then are brought back to life again. Jesus had no life in his body when it was placed in the tomb.

(and before someone asks, resurrection is NOT the same as reincarnation.)

But he did not die.
He was alive was he not?

What I mean, people saw him alive after the suppposed crucifixion.

He was raised up from the dead. So, yes, he had died. But he was made alive again, from the dead. This is the miracle of the Resurrection that Christians celebrate every Easter. According to the Gospel records Jesus was killed on the day before the Passover began that (Friday) evening, and was resurrected on the first day of the week (or Sunday). Counting partial days as if they were full days, that would be 3 days in the tomb -- Friday at the 9th hour (3 PM) till sunset, sunset Friday till sunset Saturday, and sunset Saturday till his resurrection at dawn on Sunday. And then after this he was seen again alive by many different people.

 

[NoName55]

I'm feeling left out, ignored, none wants to answer me

 

[Grace Seeker]

I'm feeling left out, ignored, none wants to answer me

Sorry. It surely wasn't intentional. What did we miss?

 

[duskiness]

I'm more confused now, are we now saying That Christ, Definitely, is not G-d but clearly someone who obeys and serves The Creator

Peace

No, we are saying that Jesus - God & human obeyed God the Father. Simple

 

[NoName55]

No, we are saying that Jesus - God & human obeyed God the Father. Simple

so there are 2 gods after all,
one who orders (G-d the Father)
2nd who obeys (G-d & human)

Thank You

 

[duskiness]

so there are 2 gods after all,
one who orders (G-d the Father)
2nd who obeys (G-d & human)

Thank You

ekhm...have you heard about Trinity? :? after all there is one God.
Relationship between Persons in Trinity is high above my simple mind. Maybe try teasing Grace Seeker and he may give you some kind of answer...I wash my hands from this subject. :-[

 

[NoName55]

ekhm...have you heard about Trinity? :? after all there is one God.
Relationship between Persons in Trinity is high above my simple mind. Maybe try teasing Grace Seeker and he may give you some kind of answer...I wash my hands from this subject. :-[

okay, I have heard of trinity in many pagan relgions of past and present. At presentThere is one in Hindu-ism and one in state religion of Iran but I can't name it or else my post gets editted by staff for sectarianism.
peace

Edit:
I nearly forgot about the one in [FONT=&quot]Catholicism[/FONT]

 

[vpb]

weren't there 1400 gospels at the time of Constantine and didn't they choose 4 of them as the most accurate?