Jesus asked, "Who do you say I am?"

[snakelegs]

I understand that Muslims do not believe what Jesus said about himself is true in the Bible. I could understand this if it was only once or even twice that He mentions He is the only way to God (Alllah), but when the Bible is replete with such testimonies and Christ's statements, it is not possible to push it off as translational errors or a false witness.

actually, it is very possible if you are not christian and don't believe in the NT = you don't accept the presmise in the first place so it means nothing.

 

[Keltoi]

actually, it is very possible if you are not christian and don't believe in the NT = you don't accept the presmise in the first place so it means nothing.

Well, not accepting the NT is one thing, stating that the NT doesn't support this notion is something else entirely.

 

[Umar001]

I understand that Muslims do not believe what Jesus said about himself is true in the Bible. I could understand this if it was only once or even twice that He mentions He is the only way to God (Alllah), but when the Bible is replete with such testimonies and Christ's statements, it is not possible to push it off as translational errors or a false witness.

Are you totally oblivious to the reality behind the compilation of the Bible? Have you studied it at all?

First, no Muslim would deny in totality that to some people and some time Jesus was their only way to Salavation.

Second of all you seem to fail to understand the circumstances in which the present text of the Bible has reached us.

EDIT:
You've still yet to show that the Bible is a trustworthy account of Jesus' life from the other thread, wonder if you'll ever get round to that.

The reply will be that the Apostle Paul made it all up and the rest of Christendom remained silent...but of course that would also mean the whole of Christendom was a lie to begin with. Convenient, but not based on anything than the need to believe such is the case.

Actually that isnt the reply from me. :X

 

[Redeemed]

This is the way I see it, it all goes back to Isaac Abraham's son and Ishmael Hagar's son. Ishmael and Isaac them be brothers man who worshiped the same God. Both of them received a promise from God. Ishmael was promised to be numerous and a powerful nation that would be highly independent and self-sufficient. The Muslims are from the seed of Ishmael and the Christians are from the seed of Isaac, but Isaac was the seed of promise from where the Messiah would come (Jesus) He came to His own and they didn’t receive Him. Lets call a spade a spade. The Arabs, in my opinion, deserve more credit than the Jews, because they at least recognize and receive Him as a great prophet. The Jews totally reject Him as a nation. Jesus just said too many things that allude to who He is in relationship to God that proves the Jews are wrong about Him and the Muslims do not give Him his due either. We are told that the New Testament is a farce and Paul made up the whole thing. This could be said about any spiritual leader. Mohammad didn’t say he was the only way to God, but Jesus did. I would rather error believing Jesus than any other prophet that tells me that Jesus is not who He says He is. Jesus never mentions the term trinity; in fact, no one for that matter in the Bible including Paul uses that term. I have heard it mentioned more by Muslims that the Catholic Church. Incidentally, I think the Catholic Church in general has made the laws of God to no affect with all of its tradition that is not Biblically based. Let's look at Jesus in a little more depth.

References are available upon request: Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" He said, "No one comes unto the Father (Allah, God Almighty, The Lord) but by Me" Mary worshipped him on His feet. He didn't try to stop her in the way angels or any men of God would for people doing that. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM" When Thomas put his hand in the wounds that put Jesus to death, he said of Jesus "My Lord and my God." Jesus didn't deny it or rebuke him for saying it. Jesus didn't explicitly say He was God because He wanted you to realize it for yourself. Philip said show us the Father and we'll be happy. Jesus said, "I have been with you. Don't you know me?" Jesus said, I am the Alpha and Omega beginning and the end. God said the same about Himself in Isaiah. Jehova said there is no God besides me and I share not my glory with another. Jesus claims these titles unto Himself. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and follow me. I can hear His voice. That is why I follow Him. The Bible is replete with Jesus being the total Spiritual Sum of All things. He said, "The Father Judges no one but has committed all judgment to (Jesus) the Son so that you will honor Him the same as you honor the Father" (Allah). To reduce Jesus equal to an angel or just a prophet is blasphemous to us followers of Christ. Jesus is named "Immanuel" that means GOD with us. It is written do not be like the Ox that needs a bit and bridle to see what truth is. He said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me. He is the exact representation of all that God is. He is in the very nature God. What is the difference in essences if you put the bag in the cup or put the cup in the bag? It is equal in mass and weight even if the volume is different. Jesus was a man so the man part of Him was under the Father’s authority, but He was no less deity. Just like you have a son who is under you, but he is no less human than you. If one doesn’t honor Jesus as his creator, as the Bible states He is, then one does not honor God, Allah or the Lord.

This question has been asked many times and in different ways and yet it really hasn't been addressed: What did the writers of the New Testament have to gain by perpetuating a hoax? Why would Paul go through beatings and ship wreck and even lose his life at the end just for a hoax. These men lived by faith and were willing to die for what they believed. That in itself doesn't make something true, but it shows they weren't faking anything. Many people have had supernatural experiences, which cannot be proved. The question is who was giving the supernatural signs the devil or God. This thing and difference we have in religion is too big to deal with using human finite ability. Only God can reveal the truth and bear witness with our spirit for confirmation of what is true. We are dealing with power in the spiritual world.

 

[جوري]

The reply will be that the Apostle Paul made it all up and the rest of Christendom remained silent...but of course that would also mean the whole of Christendom was a lie to begin with. Convenient, but not based on anything than the need to believe such is the case.

challenge me? what is this a duel? You are so funny--- & What do you call this post a really subtle hint? I have no time to rummage through your old posts... unless I needed a good dose of an anesthetics ..

peace!

 

[Woodrow]

I will just go back to my original statement. Prove that the NT is the truth, without using the NT as the proof.

 

[Umar001]

Mohammad didn’t say he was the only way to God, but Jesus did.

Are you sure? This is what I mean.

References are available upon request: Jesus said, "I am the Way, the Truth and the Life" He said, "No one comes unto the Father (Allah, God Almighty, The Lord) but by Me" Mary worshipped him on His feet. He didn't try to stop her in the way angels or any men of God would for people doing that. Jesus said, "Before Abraham was I AM" When Thomas put his hand in the wounds that put Jesus to death, he said of Jesus "My Lord and my God." Jesus didn't deny it or rebuke him for saying it. Jesus didn't explicitly say He was God because He wanted you to realize it for yourself. Philip said show us the Father and we'll be happy. Jesus said, "I have been with you. Don't you know me?" Jesus said, I am the Alpha and Omega beginning and the end. God said the same about Himself in Isaiah. Jehova said there is no God besides me and I share not my glory with another. Jesus claims these titles unto Himself. If you have seen me you have seen the Father. Jesus said my sheep hear my voice and follow me. I can hear His voice. That is why I follow Him. The Bible is replete with Jesus being the total Spiritual Sum of All things. He said, "The Father Judges no one but has committed all judgment to (Jesus) the Son so that you will honor Him the same as you honor the Father" (Allah). To reduce Jesus equal to an angel or just a prophet is blasphemous to us followers of Christ. Jesus is named "Immanuel" that means GOD with us. It is written do not be like the Ox that needs a bit and bridle to see what truth is. He said, I am in the Father and the Father is in me. He is the exact representation of all that God is. He is in the very nature God. What is the difference in essences if you put the bag in the cup or put the cup in the bag? It is equal in mass and weight even if the volume is different. Jesus was a man so the man part of Him was under the Father’s authority, but He was no less deity. Just like you have a son who is under you, but he is no less human than you. If one doesn’t honor Jesus as his creator, as the Bible states He is, then one does not honor God, Allah or the Lord.

You fail to understand that all the above can be spoken about and explained. I wish you would listen sometimes, evidently you do the opposite of the Bible!

This question has been asked many times and in different ways and yet it really hasn't been addressed: What did the writers of the New Testament have to gain by perpetuating a hoax? Why would Paul go through beatings and ship wreck and even lose his life at the end just for a hoax. These men lived by faith and were willing to die for what they believed. That in itself doesn't make something true, but it shows they weren't faking anything. Many people have had supernatural experiences, which cannot be proved. The question is who was giving the supernatural signs the devil or God. This thing and difference we have in religion is too big to deal with using human finite ability. Only God can reveal the truth and bear witness with our spirit for confirmation of what is true. We are dealing with power in the spiritual world.

Or maybe they didnt forge it on purpose? Do you actually pay attention to any of the theories we put forward?

 

[snakelegs]

Well, not accepting the NT is one thing, stating that the NT doesn't support this notion is something else entirely.

i agree and i would never say that. after all, if it didn't, there would be no christianity! it is just that if you are not a christian, it is not a credible source.

 

[Redeemed]

Correct me if I am wrong. Did he say he was the only way or did he say his message was the only way? Jesus said, He was the Way period! I am not stupid. I sent the same response because I didn't understand you theory, but am trying to. No one has the right to judge me by saying I am not listening or trying just because I am slow to catch on to your theory if you can call it that. I might call it or give it credit as an hypothesis first. Nevertheless, I am having trouble seeing it the way you do.

 

[Keltoi]

challenge me? what is this a duel? You are so funny--- & What do you call this post a really subtle hint? I have no time to rummage through your old posts... unless I needed a good dose of an anesthetics ..

peace!

You made the claim that I have made posts intended to prove Islam false....I "challenged" you to back up your claim. It isn't my fault if you made the claim without evidence.

 

[جوري]

You made the claim that I have made posts intended to prove Islam false....I "challenged" you to back up your claim. It isn't my fault if you made the claim without evidence.

Did you read the phrase you wrote that we have highlighted for you from your previous post? What other name do you have for that? "an obvious need to believe"? What am I exactly to infer from that.. aside from your contentious nature..

 

[Keltoi]

I will just go back to my original statement. Prove that the NT is the truth, without using the NT as the proof.

I still don't really understand what you're saying. Nothing you posted previously convinced me of the truth in the Qu'ran. The reality is that both faiths are based on the words in our Holy Books, everything else stems from that.

 

[Woodrow]

There really is not much sense in any of us getting into an uproar. The only thing that we will prove here is that Christians do not believe the Qur'an is the word of Allah(swt) and Muslims do not believe the NT is the word of God(swt).

I am satisfied I have seen sufficient proof to prove that the Qur'an is true and I am certain that Christians are satisfied they have seen sufficient proof that the Bible is true.

The irony is neither of us want to see anyone go to the Hellfire.

 

[Keltoi]

Did you read the phrase you wrote that we have highlighted for you from your previous post? What other name do you have for that? "an obvious need to believe"? What am I exactly to infer from that.. aside from your contentious nature..

The fact that I don't believe in the truth of the Qu'ran or Muslims claims about the truth of the NT isn't attacking Islam. That is a consequence of my faith. The "obvious need to believe" is based on the reality that both faiths cannot be correct. Muslims would say the same thing about Christianity.

 

[Umar001]

Correct me if I am wrong. Did he say he was the only way or did he say his message was the only way? Jesus said, He was the Way period! I am not stupid. I sent the same response because I didn't understand you theory, but am trying to. No one has the right to judge me by saying I am not listening or trying just because I am slow to catch on to your theory if you can call it that. I might call it or give it credit as an hypothesis first. Nevertheless, I am having trouble seeing it the way you do.

Again, Muhammad, peace be upon him, spoke of himself being a distinguishing factor for some people, i.e. he was the only way.

As for the rest, noone is saying your stupid, nor am I asking you to see through the same lenses as me.

 

[Redeemed]

Are you sure? This is what I mean.



You fail to understand that all the above can be spoken about and explained. I wish you would listen sometimes, evidently you do the opposite of the Bible!




Or maybe they didnt forge it on purpose? Do you actually pay attention to any of the theories we put forward?

If they didn't forge it on purpose why did it happen, and can't that be said about any spiritual leader? Correct me if I am wrong. Did the prophet Mohammad say he was the only way or did he say his message was the only way? Jesus said, He was the only Way period! I am not stupid. I sent the same response because I didn't understand your theory, but am trying to. No one has the right to judge me by saying I am not listening or trying just because I am slow to catch on to your theories if you can call it that. I might call it or give it credit as an hypothesis first. Nevertheless, I am having trouble seeing it the way you do. that doesn't mean Ia m not interested in learning about Islam. I am trying to get one of those free Qu'rans, but I am having trouble securing one. When I get one, I am going to study it.

 

[جوري]

The fact that I don't believe in the truth of the Qu'ran or Muslims claims about the truth of the NT isn't attacking Islam. That is a consequence of my faith. The "obvious need to believe" is based on the reality that both faiths cannot be correct. Muslims would say the same thing about Christianity.

Christianity was correct for a time and for specific people (Bani Israel).. So, you are wrong in your assumption! I don't believe the current state of Christianity to be correct! however I can't deny Jesus PBUH or the book he originally brought, or Moses before him, or Abraham before him, or David, as mandated by the Quran-- I have a bible of barnabas here in Arabic, that I can very much relate to its contents. Its message is clear... No where does he say I am G-D worship me... and There is mention of prophet Mohammed. I might simply ask you why do you not follow the OT when you can't deny its message? To which you'd answer?

You have to completely dismiss the Quran and all its contents, as the Jews do with the bible and all its contents to which you might simply shrug your shoulder at their state of denial...I can't deny the previous messages or messengers. and in fact can't understand how anyone who is read can explain the Quran as anything other than the last revelation.



peace

 

[Redeemed]

Again, Muhammad, peace be upon him, spoke of himself being a distinguishing factor for some people, i.e. he was the only way.

As for the rest, noone is saying your stupid, nor am I asking you to see through the same lenses as me.

Hang on, I am getting ahead of myself here. I have responded as if you didn't. Ok my mistake. Sorr,y I do get excited and a little over zealous. I don't mean to be annoying or abrasive, but I don't know hor to change that. I am depending of the Lord to refine me.

 

[Redeemed]

Again, Muhammad, peace be upon him, spoke of himself being a distinguishing factor for some people, i.e. he was the only way.

As for the rest, noone is saying your stupid, nor am I asking you to see through the same lenses as me.

What do you mean I do the the opposite of the Bible? Do you mean quick to listen slow to speak or something else? If that is what you mean, I am quick to listen and slow to speak, but I am slow to read and quick to write LOL.

 

[Umar001]

What do you mean I do the the opposite of the Bible? Do you mean quick to listen slow to speak or something else? If that is what you mean, I am quick to listen and slow to speak, but I am slow to read and quick to write LOL.

Lol well be quick to read and slow to write