Are we gods?

[Redeemed]

It's quite a struggle to understand your point of view, believe me. You think you can never 'earn your salvation'? but what do you need to be saved FROM? & who is setting the price anyway? if God is demanding a price for 'salvation' then HE can set it as low as he likes! can you understand that?

so, we Muslims believe that God requires us to testify to His Oneness and that Muhammad (pbuh) is His final messenger, and keep turning to Him (God) in repentence no matter how many times we sin - and by His Mercy He will grant us eternal life in Paradise, insha'Allah. each person is responsible for their own sins, & no-one will bear the burden of another's sin. Is that an insult to God?

whereas, Christians seem to believe that original sin committed by Adam is a stain on all humanity that can somehow be 'washed away' by the bloodshed of an innocent (who is somehow, actually, God, so the blood of God washes away our sins against God.....). so it is God who is demanding the 'ransom' or 'sacrifice', & also God who is the One sacrificed....? confused......you will be.


furthermore..........
James 2:14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? that faith cannot save him, can it?

peace

I understand what you're saying. I would be confused too if i was trying to understand it the way you are. I am curious why it doesn't confuse you that God had no beginning. It is a fact that God is one. You will get no argument from me. The Bible states that He is ONE. "Hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one" If God wants to let His Lamb take the guilt for my sin, I am going to be very thankful and not bite the hand that is saving me. You see my guilt is so bad that there is no amount of good I can do to pay for it. Since God is just, He cannot let me go unpunished so He let His Lamb take it for me; otherwise, I could not be forgiven. I owe God for my salvation, but you seem to believe that you can earn yours. That is the difference between us. His sacrifice of love isn't something I can understand with my understanding. It is written: "As high as the heavens are from the earth are His ways from mine and His thoughts from mine.":rollseyes

 

[ummzayd]

I understand what you're saying. I would be confused too if i was trying to understand it the way you are. I am curious why it doesn't confuse you that God had no beginning. It is a fact that God is one. You will get no argument from me. The Bible states that He is ONE. "Hear oh Israel the Lord our God is one" If God wants to let His Lamb take the guilt for my sin, I am going to be very thankful and not bite the hand that is saving me. You see my guilt is so bad that there is no amount of good I can do to pay for it. Since God is just He cannot let me go unpunished so He let His Lamb take it for me; otherwise, I could not be forgiven. I owe God for my salvation, but you seem to believe that you can earn yours. That is the difference between us. His sacrifice isn't something I can understand with my understanding. It is written: "As high as the heavens are from the earth are His ways from mine and His thoughts from mine.":rollseyes

asking me to believe that the Creator of the universe had no beginning is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from asking me to believe that a Just God requires an innocent victim to be sacrificed so that its (His) blood can 'wash away' my sins.

Since you admit 'his sacrifice isn't something I can understand with my understanding' I suppose there is nothing more to say. You are unable to defend this position, it is truly unjust, illogical and completely non-sensical, you know that and yet you are still clinging to it......God help you.

 

[Redeemed]

asking me to believe that the Creator of the universe had no beginning is COMPLETELY DIFFERENT from asking me to believe that a Just God requires an innocent victim to be sacrificed so that its (His) blood can 'wash away' my sins.

Since you admit 'his sacrifice isn't something I can understand with my understanding' I suppose there is nothing more to say. You are unable to defend this position, it is truly unjust, illogical and completely non-sensical, you know that and yet you are still clinging to it......God help you.

I must have not made myself clear. What I meant was His love is passed my understanding not the sacrifice. When I consider the work of thy hands OH God, the sun, stars and moon, who am I that thou are mindful of me? Someone who is guilty of sin couldn't pay the price for my sin; it took the shedding of innocent blood which Jesus did willingly for me. It is that kind of Love that passes my understanding. It is written: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God."
:statisfie

 

[MustafaMc]

Yes sure, a true Christian to me is someone who believes that Jesus is the Son of the living God who died and rose again. Someone who recieves Him into their heart as their personal Lord and Savior of their life. Someone who turns from sin forgetting those things that are behind and pressing on to the high calling of God in Christ Jesus. Someone who is obedient to God's commands, and trust Him for his or her eternal soul. Someone who lives by faith, prays without ceasing and longs for the return of Christ to set the world straight. Someone who loves even their enemies and lays down their life for a friend.

Sounds like a good definition to me.

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace ,

Question if I may . Can you give me the overstanding of this word . Allahumma .

umm....u r asking about the word Allahumma or explanation of my post ?

 

[barney]

To answer the Original post. Nope we are not. I just tried teleporting England to the south pacific and failed.

 

[Redeemed]

It's quite a struggle to understand your point of view, believe me. You think you can never 'earn your salvation'? but what do you need to be saved FROM? & who is setting the price anyway? if God is demanding a price for 'salvation' then HE can set it as low as he likes! can you understand that? He has set the price. The soul that sins must die Ro. 3:23. It is written for the wages of sin is death, but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord. That death means eternally separated from God forever. I can't redeem myself because my sentence is death. God as provided His mercy through the Lamb of God who takes away the sin of the world, but it is my call to accept or reject this good news.so, we Muslims believe that God requires us to testify to His Oneness and that Muhammad (pbuh) is His final messenger, and keep turning to Him (God) in repentence no matter how many times we sin - and by His Mercy He will grant us eternal life in Paradise, insha'Allah. each person is responsible for their own sins, & no-one will bear the burden of another's sin. Is that an insult to God? Yes, it is because one would be trusting in their own righteous acts; moreover, even though one repents, there is still the guilt of passed sin that hasn't been atoned for. God's Justice will not let us get away with it, and the devil will be there on our judgment day to remind us and God of our sin so he can have his claim on us forever in hell. The reason I am sure of my salvation is because the Lamb of God has become sin for me, and His righteousness is on me. That is why I can come to God with boldness, and I know who I am in Him. We have something that others don't and it shows, but we want others to know about it. That is why I am here in the world. God will require your blood at my hand if I don't tell you, but now that I told you I am free of your blood. How can anyone escape the judgment of God if they neglect so great a salvation.
whereas, Christians seem to believe that original sin committed by Adam is a stain on all humanity that can somehow be 'washed away' by the bloodshed of an innocent (who is somehow, actually, God, so the blood of God washes away our sins against God.....). so it is God who is demanding the 'ransom' or 'sacrifice', & also God who is the One sacrificed....? confused......you will be. God has every right to do it the way He wants. We must meet God on His terms not ours!
furthermore..........
James 2:14 Of what benefit is it, my brothers, if a certain one says he has faith but he does not have works? that faith cannot save him, can it? That is right. If we have faith it will show in our works, but it is not the works that save us.

peace

you are loved

 

[جوري]

you are loved

You are zonked!

 

[barney]

Group Hug!

 

[جوري]

 

[cleo]

God said, "Let us make man in our image and likeness. Who was He talking to?"
Don't call us liars. Yet, I still believe that God is one.

Question? "Let US make man in OUR image and likeness." Who is US, and what is OUR image? Just a thought, my friend brought this up, and I can't answer who US is or OUR is. Do you know?

 

[barney]

@ Purest

Cleo, the stock answer is he was talking using the royal "we" like the Queen does.
Who was he talking to? Itself.
Why?
God knows.
:rollseyes

The Quran and Bible use He Me I We Us Our Him Us amongst others. Makes no real litery sense.

 

[Redeemed]

You are zonked!

Let me be zonked, cauz I'd rather be mad and glad than be sane and sad.

 

[جوري]

that is poetic man!

 

[Redeemed]

that is poetic man!

LOL:laugh:

 

[barney]

I understand what you're saying. I would be confused too if i was trying to understand it the way you are.

Yup, if you havnt faith , then it basically reads.

A plan was decreed from the dawn of time. Having created sinful man, God contrives to get himself whacked, as only the spilling of his own blood can save mankind from his own wrath and cleanse his sin, bearing in mind that he is all-merciful. Then throw in a ghost for good measure.:skeleton:

 

[MustafaMc]

Question if I may . Can you give me the overstanding of this word . Allahumma .

O Allah.

 

[Redeemed]

Yup, if you havnt faith , then it basically reads.

A plan was decreed from the dawn of time. Having created sinful man, God contrives to get himself whacked, as only the spilling of his own blood can save mankind from his own wrath and cleanse his sin, bearing in mind that he is all-merciful. Then throw in a ghost for good measure.:skeleton:

Like Dylan says: "you gotta serve somebody; it might be the devil it might be the Lord you gotta serve somebody." If we don't accept the Lord now while we are alive then the devil takes us when we die!

 

[barney]

Serve mankind.

Work together for the greater good and shun the devisiveness of organised religion to create not destroy, although it is mans nature, working together we can work towards th former and discard the latter.

 

[ummzayd]

I must have not made myself clear. What I meant was His love is passed my understanding not the sacrifice. When I consider the work of thy hands OH God, the sun, stars and moon, who am I that thou are mindful of me? Someone who is guilty of sin couldn't pay the price for my sin; it took the shedding of innocent blood which Jesus did willingly for me. It is that kind of Love that passes my understanding. It is written: "For the preaching of the cross is to them that perish foolishness, but unto us which are saved, it is the power of God.":statisfie

typical smug Christian, telling us patronisingly 'you are loved' & 'I love you in Christ' etc. and yet unable to resist rubbing our noses in the 'fact' that you are 'saved' & we are not (as you see it).

also, you claimed that one difference between you & I, is that you as a Christian are more humble because you understand that you haven't earned your salvation, it was a gift from God that otherwise you as a miserable sinner could never attain. whereas I, Muslim, am in danger of pride and arrogance by believing that God told me I can get to Paradise by obeying Him.

can I just say, that humility doesn't exactly shine out of your posts. AND, you DO 'earn' your salvation by having faith in a blood-thirsty God unable to forgive sins at will? That is the deal, no?

so, your salvation has been earned (according to your creed).