Do Christians and Muslims worship the same God?

[Omari]

http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/religion/spurious.htm

 

[Whatsthepoint]

Cheers

click on it

thanks!

 

[Whatsthepoint]

http://www.multiline.com.au/~johnm/religion/spurious.htm

I haven't read the entire site but it's not hard to notice, the site is inconsistent. Sometimes it mentions the actual changs, sometimes the translatiosn, next there are contradictions as such, there are many if's and assumptions. I wouldn't call this a reliable site.
Well, I am sure there have been changes, the New Testament has been transmitted by oral tradition, the gospels were written down after Jesus's death, even after some of the disciples' deaths. There were many manuscripts and hence the possible changes.
And anyway, the Church gathered the Bible after many years of theological debate, councils etc, so they more or less excluded intentionally changed writings, I guess it must have resembled the hadith science.
I don't think the Bble was changed in order to fit the Church's needs and wishes.

Here's one of the claims from the site:

• Ten to 12.5 per cent of the New Testament is possibly tainted.

Now, don't you think if the the 87,5-90% of the Bible were unchanged, it's original message(Islam in your opinion) would be clearly visible (more clearly than it is now)?

 

[ummsara1108]

assalam alaakium/Hello first time poster here.

I believe christians, muslims and jews all believe in the same and one and only unique god, however jesus (peace be upon him) is part of the trinity to christians as a way to get to god, almost like believing in Muhammad (peace be upon him) if you don't believe your not a muslim.

Just my two sense, no offence intended

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;



only learned Hindus know that God is one.

Others worship 3 gods ( one god Shiva is the most powerful among Triune gods . I wonder ,
if this is like God the father is most powerful among God the son & holy Spirit ??) .

Just a correction to the assumption that God the Father is considered more powerful than God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. That is not actually a teaching of Christianity.

 

[Grace Seeker]

there's no proof Abraham actually existed, so he can't make it to the most influental people list.
The most influental men in recorded history are Jesus and Muhammad, I can't decide which one to put on the top.

Well, normally I would say Jesus. But see, that's just me favoring my religion. I'm feeling a little more conciliatory today. What if we agree that Muhammad was the most influential MAN, but I'll be expecting something in return, like the reason Jesus doesn't qualify as the most infuential man is because my Muslim friends have decided to recognize him in the category of God.kay:

 

[Grace Seeker]

yeah I know that according to the Orthodox Christian belief, Jesus was perfect man and perfect God at the same time. This belief is necessary for salvation according to the Athanasian creed held dear by most Christians. Modern Christian scholars reject this idea not because it is difficult to understand but because it cannot be meaningfully expressed. The doctrine cannot be stated in any way that is free from contradictions. It is impossible for Jesus to have been perfect man and perfect God at the same time, for this would mean that he was finite and infinite at the same time, that he was fallible and infallible at the same time. This cannot be.:heated:

The "modern" Christian scholars you refer to would be themselves rejected as not speaking with integrity on behalf of the faith. Christianity most certainly allows for the concept of Jesus as both God and Man, fully human and fully divine, just exactly as described in the Council of Chalcedon. If you have been taught otherwise by some "modern" theologians, I would question whether they are really either "Christian" or "scholars". We can live with the paradox of holding two apparently contravening thoughts as both true at the same time, without a problem.

But as for the "problems" you mention, I don't actually see them as even being real problems. For instance, an apple seed, an apple peal, and the flesh of an apple are none of them 100% of the apple. But each of them are still 100% apple, for they most certainly are not orange, pineapple, pear, watermelon or kumquat. Jesus could be 100% man and 100% God, both at the same time. Just as he was not all of humanity, he also did not have to be all of divinity. So there is no issue of him being finite and infinite at the same time. As for his fallibiity/infallibity, I've never heard it suggested that he was fallible, though I grant that I don't see him as having been omniscent. But I would also suggest that the reality of his divinity does need to hang on any of those attributes.

unfortunatly for the christian, Jesus christ (PBUH) never claimed divinity in the bible. Where are the christian scholars coming up with the philosophy in the first place :S

It is enough for me that Thomas recognized and addressed Jesus as "my God", and Jesus accepted it (John 20:28). There is much more in the scriptures than that, but that simple exchange is all I really need to know that Jesus was God.

oh, simply because the official shariah law came after Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) all the other prophets brought their OWN words from god but it was for their OWN time. In fact in the bible it says, there are so many things that I must tell you , but I cannot, then he should come teach you.[referring to the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH)]
[please let me know]

Actually, the Bible does not refer to Muhammad at all. I know you are taught that as a Muslim, but it requires reading into the text in a way that is a perversion of what it is actually saying to arrive at such a conclusion. You are also taught that since Jesus said to the Canaanite woman, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of Israel." (Matthew 15:24) that Jesus' message was only for that select group. Unfortunately those who have taught you that have completely neglected to also inform you that Jesus himself sent his disciples out further afield than he had ever gone: "go and make disciples of all nations" (Matthew 28:19) and "you will be my witnesses in Jerusalem, and in all Judea and Samaria, and to the ends of the earth" (Acts 1:8). I am sorry to tell you that while the scriptural passages you have been taught are correct, their application has been stilted so as to result in an error in understanding.

 

[ummsara1108]

1. Where does it spacificaly say TRINITY in the bible? Not the (meaning) but the (word) TRINITY.

2. Why do most chrisitans follow the new testament? is it not part of abandonment for the old original testament?

3. why is it ok to eat pork in the new testament and forbiden in the old?

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace;

Just a correction to the assumption that God the Father is considered more powerful than God the Son or God the Holy Spirit. That is not actually a teaching of Christianity.

but when we read Bible , always we see that it's the Father who is giving orders or deciding matters for son & others.

It's the son who is confirming that my father is greater than all etc. So , why it's wrong to say that father is the most powerful ? After all father never died but son died .

 

[Grace Seeker]

1. Where does it spacificaly say TRINITY in the bible? Not the (meaning) but the (word) TRINITY.

It's in the same verse that says all prophets taught Islam.

2. Why do most chrisitans follow the new testament? is it not part of abandonment for the old original testament?

All Christians follow the New Testament or they are not actually Christians, but Jews. Why? Because Jesus instituted a new covenant, and Christians are partakers of that new covenant that Jesus instituted and the story of which is told in the New Testament. This new covenant is for all people. One does not have to become a participant in the old covenant (a Jew) to be a Christian.

3. why is it ok to eat pork in the new testament and forbiden in the old?

For the same reason that Muslims do not worship on the Saturday Sabbath. Not eating of pork was one of the requirements of the old covenant, but it was not made one of the requirements of the new covenant. Remember, most Christians are not Jews. The old covenant was never binding upon them to begin with. Those few Christians that have Jewish heritage often do keep the practice of not eating pork.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Salaam/peace;



but when we read Bible , always we see that it's the Father who is giving orders or deciding matters for son & others.

It's the son who is confirming that my father is greater than all etc. So , why it's wrong to say that father is the most powerful ? After all father never died but son died .

But that has to do with submission, not power.

 

[ummsara1108]

ok then if jews follow the old testament and christians are not jewish then why is it in the bible (the old testament) then do christians only follow half of the bible?

 

[ummsara1108]

please don't get me wrong, I am not debating just need more info. ty

 

[Omari]

....huh?

 

[Omari]

But that has to do with submission, not power.

Not neccessarily, If jesus christ could bring the dead back to life, could cure the blind, why take dicisions from "the father". God doesn't need to submit to anyone, ITS GOD! It sounds slightly hypothetical to me, god submitting to god.
[not much of a god if his decisions are taken by the father.]


Ofcourse, this is my opinion grace, and i am 125% sure you're going to correct me
hit me with your best shot

Peace be with you
Omari

 

[Muslim Woman]

salaam/peace;

But that has to do with submission, not power.

pl. explain more. Why Jesus (p) needed to submit himself to father ?

Why he asked help from father when he was in danger ?

These indicate that father was always more powerful than his son .


Verses we need specially for hereafter :


"Verily, the likeness of Jesus in God's Sight is the likeness of Adam.

He (God) created him from dust, then (He) said to him: ‘Be!'-and he was" (Quran 3:59).

 

[Muslim Woman]

Salaam/peace



Muslims believe Jesus (p) spoke as infant. Do Christians have any such belief ?

[FONT=&quot]"Then she (Mary) pointed to him. They said: ‘How can we talk to one who is a child in the cradle?' [/FONT]

[FONT=&quot]He (Jesus) said: ‘Verily! I am a slave of God, He has given me the Scripture and made me a Prophet; " chapter Mary (19:29-30).[/FONT]



Grace Seeker : Jesus doesn't qualify as the most influential man is because my Muslim friends have decided to recognize him in the category of God

---I think , Christians must not compare Jesus (p) with any human being as they worship him as God. They should do it with other deities i.e. father & holy spirit





Grace Seeker : It is enough for me that Thomas recognized and addressed Jesus as "my God", and Jesus accepted it (John 20:28)


---but what if like the poison verse , this verse was also added later ? Very few ( only 3 or 4 verses ) go against the entire Bible & u r putting ur hereafter only on those few verses & ignoring the rest of the teaching ?


Hope I don’t sound rude but is it wise to do so ?

Omari:. im a full member Wooooot

Congrates

Verses we need for this world --specially hereafter....so pl. read carefully






Say: Call upon those whom you assert besides God; they do not control the weight of an atom in the heavens or in the earth nor have they any partnership in either, nor has He among them any one to back (Him) up.
[34.22]




God sets forth an example:



There is a slave in whom are (several) partners differing with one another, and there is another slave wholly owned by one man.



Are the two alike in condition?



(All) praise is due to God. Nay! most of them do not know.[39.29]

 

[ummsara1108]

Muslim Woman,

As a person that grew up chirstian, I have heard the same story about jesus (pbuh) speaking as an infant. The similarity of Jesus (pbuh) in the bible and the koran are amazing except the few things like son of god, trinity and died on the cross and arose from the dead, but the other stories are amazingly the same, as is moses, abaraham/ibraham, adam and so on. Learning between the two I find many similarities. Good question by the way. hope i didn't go on and on and on and on....lol

 

[ummsara1108]

oh and mabrak/congrats on becoming a full member, I am working on it...lol

 

[Grace Seeker]

Grace Seeker : Jesus doesn't qualify as the most influential man is because my Muslim friends have decided to recognize him in the category of God

---I think , Christians must not compare Jesus (p) with any human being as they worship him as God. They should do it with other deities i.e. father & holy spirit

I'm not sure what you are saying, but I hope you realized that I was speaking in jest. For that reason you can't isolate just one part of what I said from the rest and think it has any meaning of its own. To understand what I was saying you must read the whole of it in context:

originally quoted by Grace Seeker in answer to a previouly posted question, "Who was the most influential man in history, Jesus or Muhammad?"

Well, normally I would say Jesus. But see, that's just me favoring my religion. I'm feeling a little more conciliatory today. What if we agree that Muhammad was the most influential MAN, but I'll be expecting something in return, like the reason Jesus doesn't qualify as the most infuential man is because my Muslim friends have decided to recognize him in the category of God.kay:

As a person that grew up chirstian, I have heard the same story about jesus (pbuh) speaking as an infant.

Really? I obviously went to the wrong church, wrong Sunday school classes, wrong summer Vacation Bible School programs, and read the wrong Bible. I never heard such stories until I was in college, and then they came from non-Christian sources.