Did Allah create life?

[Whatsthepoint]

[rhetorical question:] please explain MY version of Allah, Subhannahu Wa Ta' Aala!

your version = muslim version

their existence can be shown...

I thought theists claim the same for god...
And anyway, god does exist. Does it exists in reality? That I do not know, but I know there is a concept, an idea (actualy there are many) of god, and that's what I am trying to debate about.

have you ever really read the Qur'an? with some Tafseer?

Only a couple of verses and a few surahs. I've read the tafseers of some verses.

 

[ranma1/2]

I'm honestly dumbfounded at how anyone could think this way, even someone who doesn't acknowledge the existence of God. God gave you the ability to see, to hear, to taste, to smell, to touch, to experience emotions. Imagine we had to think about every time we needed to breathe, needed to control our digestion, respiration, hormone secretion, anything. Someone who gave you all of these blessings (and that's just looking at the human body, not the rest of creation), does not deserve to be worshiped?

If you really feel that way, I feel sorry for your parents. If you think the God who created you and everything else, what do you feel parents deserve? They raise you, discipline you, feed you, provide you with a home, etc. etc. According to your reasoning, they deserve even less than thanks. You don't have to obey them, or be kind to them, or anything. Truly a sad state.

why are you dumbfounded? do you worship your parents who had amore hands on approach in your creation?
as for my parents, i appreciate being born (thanks mom, dad) but i dont worship them (and i know they exists). Likewise if my parents never showed up, never let me know they existed, i would likly have no respect for them.
But my parents actually do exists in my life (unlike god who likes to play hide and seek) so they deserve more respect and thanks. However if they were not good people i would not likely give them any respect just because they were my blood.

 

[ranma1/2]

... The one who gave y..ou hands to type, and an intellect and intelligence to use does not deserve a thanks?
....

i think it would be stupid of it to be mad at us for using what it gave us.

and thanks sure, worship no. anything beyond a courtious thankyou, no.

(similar to thanks for the bar of chocolate.)

 

[ranma1/2]

:salamext:

I think the answer has been given, and this thread needs to be closed before it gets out of hand... :mmokay:

i get tired of people requesting the closing of a thread when discussion is going on. its like they dont want to hear different opinions that disagree with their view.

 

[ranma1/2]

No no no, never would I say that. I am just going with the majoraty (People with no faith or believe are far more likely to kill them self. At the end of the day if ur life is not worth living due what ever kind of problems then suicide could b an optinion because there is no life after death...)

Religious people in my eyes r muslims btw! I dnt no about other religions, but ofcourse muslims get depressed some even get as far as suicide!

A minoroty though! That will ever get as far as Suicide. They perhaps weren't good muslims at all, otherwise they would of not killed them self.

got evidence for this statement? i would think those with faith would be more likely to kill themselves to get to their happy hunting grounds quicker.
(look at suicide bombers, they got plenty of faith) even excluding extremes many that believe in an after life are likely going to value their current life less believeing that there is something better aorund the corner. while those that beleive this is the only chance we have are more likely to hold on tight.

 

[Intisar]

i get tired of people requesting the closing of a thread when discussion is going on. its like they dont want to hear different opinions that disagree with their view.

I have to agree with this statement. This discussion is interesting; for once people are being good and respectful to one another. :statisfie

As for the statement about Allaah needing a creator, which was mentioned a couple of pages ago, that's a logical fallacy. Allaah is the originator of all things; he is independent and does not need anything from any of the dwellers of the universe. Unlike his creations, whom depend on him for everything.

If Allaah has a creator, then it's a cycle, the creator of Allaah must have a creator, and so on and so forth. It's a cycle that never stops. Therefore, Allaah does not need a creator because he does not have a beginning or an origin.

 

[K.Venugopal]

... do you worship your parents who had amore hands on approach in your creation?

What is meant by "worship"?

 

[K.Venugopal]

As for the statement about Allaah needing a creator, which was mentioned a couple of pages ago, that's a logical fallacy. Allaah is the originator of all things; he is independent and does not need anything from any of the dwellers of the universe. Unlike his creations, whom depend on him for everything.

If Allaah has a creator, then it's a cycle, the creator of Allaah must have a creator, and so on and so forth. It's a cycle that never stops. Therefore, Allaah does not need a creator because he does not have a beginning or an origin.

A cycle. That's it. That's what life and death is about. That's what creation and destruction/dissolution is all about. "A cycle that never stops." That's eternity for you.

 

[Intisar]

^Actually, what I meant by a cycle is that if God were to be created, then his creator would need a creator, and so on and so forth (it would never end).

Life is a cycle, and so is creation, but the premise of God having a creator (thus making it a cycle) would be mean that there would be no end of creators. Everyone would need a creator. That's where Islam comes in, Allaah is the creator of all things, hidden and apparent. He has his own attributes and characteristics, far different from our own. And as stated before, he has no beginning or end. He does not beget, nor was he begotten. Allaah is Allaah. Nothing is before him, or supersedes him.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

I have to agree with this statement. This discussion is interesting; for once people are being good and respectful to one another. :statisfie

I agree with it too. I think ranma hit the nail on the head in that post.

As for the statement about Allaah needing a creator, which was mentioned a couple of pages ago, that's a logical fallacy.

It is anything but. Here is a list of logical fallacies; I doubt you'll find it there.

When referring to the Argument from Design (which is, let's face it, the main argument that creationists have placed their trust in), a creationist might say:

"Look at how complex this life-form is! Do you see how perfectly its physiology is organised in order to make it well-equipped for life?"

or

"Did you know that if the fundamental physical constants of the Universe had been even slightly different, life could not have arisen on this planet? Isn't everything just right?"

or

"Did you hear the one about the watch found in the desert?

1. The complex inner-workings of a Watch necessitates an intelligent designer.
2. As with a Watch, the complexity of X (a particular organ or organism, the structure of the solar system, life, the entire universe) necessitates a designer."

In other words, the creationist is trying to get us to accept the general principle that anything that is complex must have a designer. So maybe there is a great designer of the universe. How complex must he be?

We've just been told that things that are complex necessarily have a designer, so this designer must surely have been designed too? Erm, no actually.

Allaah is the originator of all things; he is independent and does not need anything from any of the dwellers of the universe. Unlike his creations, whom depend on him for everything.

So we have something that is an exception to what the creationist just told us. His argument seemed plausible up to this point, but it's now straightforwardly self-contradictory.

If Allaah has a creator, then it's a cycle, the creator of Allaah must have a creator, and so on and so forth. It's a cycle that never stops. Therefore, Allaah does not need a creator because he does not have a beginning or an origin.

I've bolded 'therefore' in the above quote. It's a very suspicious 'therefore', I would say.

"Because we can't consider the possibility of an infinite regress, we choose to believe in god."

That's not really how faith works, is it?

Peace

 

[------]

:salamext:

I've bolded 'therefore' in the above quote. It's a very suspicious 'therefore', I would say.

"Because we can't consider the possibility of an infinite regress, we choose to believe in god."

That's not really how faith works, is it?

Thats not normally how discussions work is it?! She was trying to explain to you, as u full well know. Don't be picking daft things up.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

Ok, He created mankind. But why? If you say, just to worship Him, another question comes up: Why to worship Him? What does He want to do with worship anyway? Someone may say to know Him, i.e. we worship Him to know Him. I’d say, it should be the other way around: We must know Allah in order to worship Him. This has been confirmed by many Qur’anic verses, one of them is the following:

Know, therefore, that there is no god but God, and ask forgiveness for thy fault, ...Surah 47 Verse 19

Allah also says:
There is no god but He: That is the witness of God, His angels, and those endued with knowledge, standing firm on justice. There is no god but He, the Exalted in Power, the Wise. Surah 3 Verse 18

So does it mean that our main purpose of existence is to worship God? Not exactly! When we say that man was created to worship Allah, this does not mean that Allah needs his/her worship. Almighty Allah is Ever-Rich, and He does not need our worship.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Besides, if the universe had not been created, the never-ending perfection and beauty of the names and attributes of Allah Almighty would have never been known. This would have only been known by Allah. By manifesting the spiritual beauties of His names and attributes, Allah Almighty, besides beholding His own Beauty and Perfection on His own works, also wished to give a share to angels, man, and jinn from this honor and bestowal.

Regarding the question of whether to create the beings or not to, Allah made His Divine preference for creation, and this preference has become an interminable mercy for all creatures. Or else it is unthinkable that Allah’s, one of Whose names is Samed (everything is in need of Him but He is in need of nothing), creation of this universe stems from a necessity.

 

[barney]

Did Allah create the universe for himself?
Or for us?
Or for Mohammed? ( the hadeeth narrated by al-Haakim according to which Ibn ‘Abbaas said: “Allaah revealed to ‘Eesa (Jesus, peace be upon him): ‘O ‘Eesa, believe in Muhammad, and tell whoever you meet of your ummah to believe in him. For were it not for Muhammad, I would not have created Adam, and were it not for Muhammad, I would not have created Paradise and Hell. I created the Throne over the water and it would not settle until I wrote on it, Laa ilaaha ill-Allaah Muhammad Rasool Allaah ”

If for himself. What part do we play other than a fanbase?

 

[aminahjaan]

two words. No DUH!

of course he did, God is the almighty, the best, the most merciful, too good to be created. It's called faith.

 

[Azy]

As for the statement about Allaah needing a creator, which was mentioned a couple of pages ago, that's a logical fallacy. Allaah is the originator of all things; he is independent and does not need anything from any of the dwellers of the universe. Unlike his creations, whom depend on him for everything.

If Allaah has a creator, then it's a cycle, the creator of Allaah must have a creator, and so on and so forth. It's a cycle that never stops. Therefore, Allaah does not need a creator because he does not have a beginning or an origin.

I don't understand how you can see the logic just enough to get you to that point but then ignore it when it starts to work against your belief.

If it is plausible that Allah is capable or existing without a creator then why is it not plausible for the universe also?
Why is such a complex thing as an omnipotent, omniscient god able to just "be" when we are constantly told that a great many things we see everyday, though less complex, are proof of this world being created?

 

[------]

:salamext:

If it is plausible that Allah is capable or existing without a creator then why is it not plausible for the universe also?
Why is such a complex thing as an omnipotent, omniscient god able to just "be" when we are constantly told that a great many things we see everyday, though less complex, are proof of this world being created?

BECAUSE, if u try to use ur BRAIN, u would realise that EVERYTHING has a CREATOR. And the only creator of the universe is Allaah, whether u like it or not, whether u accept it or not!!

 

[Azy]

BECAUSE, if u try to use ur BRAIN, u would realise that EVERYTHING has a CREATOR. And the only creator of the universe is Allaah, whether u like it or not, whether u accept it or not!!

Don't you see what you're saying is just nonsense.
If everything needs a creator, then even god needs a creator.
If god doesn't need a creator, what is the reason for that, and why couldn't that reason possibly apply to the universe in general?

(Coz I sed so!"£! isn't a reason by the way)

 

[------]

:salamext:

^ dont u see that ur B-L-I-N-D?!

 

[Azy]

That isn't an answer to my question.