I try to open this new thread for southern Thai dialect by the suggestion of brother northern-malaysian. This thread is for everyone who is interested in Southern Thai dialect which is spoken in northern Malaysia and southern Thailand.
I am not good in Standard Thai and sorry we do not have Thai font here. I use roman script as everyone can read and practice it with Thai speakers. The dialect that we use in Kedah and northern Malaysia is called Pak Thai or Southern Thai.
Thai is a tonal language as chinese with brahmi script. There are five tone in Thai. Hope you enjoy learning Thai, it is easy and without complicated grammar
Sentences for today
Allah pein Pinchau khong rau lek Muhammad pein phunam Saksena khong rau, rau cheather Allah lek Rasulullah.
Allah is our Lord and Muhammad is our prophet, we believe in Allah and His messenger
Gosh, that sounds harsh, not all Kedahan with Thai ancestry are bad. My father told me a story related to this idiom "Siam Perut Hijau". My father is a local Kedahan from Kokdiang but with Indian ancestry.
One day at nat [nut] or a morning market, there is an event in the 60s where a Siamese guy [Thai] snatching a local merchant's money and run unstopably. Unfortunately that guy was catched and beaten by the villagers near the nat area. That guy finally swallow the money and that is how the idiom "Siam Perut Hijau" starts. It means the Thai is stubborn.
This is why we feel ashame to speak in Thai in the public, because others may misunderstood us as the people without manner. To the extend where one of my friend from Kampung Asun in Jitra ridicule his own ancestry and I have to convince him that we are all muslim, have nothing to be ashame of
One of my friend who speak in Kedahan Thai is very religious. He is from Pendang, I can see that his manner's good when talking to others. Well, my mother too speak Thai and almost all of her neighbors in the village speak in Thai beside Kedahan-Malay.
Love to brothers and sisters in faith
1960s story... I thought ... it's centuries ago...
Pendang people are very religious... I knew that.
I've met a lady in Legal Aid Bureau, Butterworth saying that her ancestors came from Bangkok area... she said that most of "Penangite Malays" which have Thai ancestry came from Central Thai, especially Bangkok area. She, herself claiming her ancestors were part of Thai royal family. Many people want to kill them as they left Buddhism. They ran away from Bangkok after converting Islam. She even claimed that the Royal family sent assassins to kill her ancestors. Because of that, many Muslim Thais from Bangkok area found refuge in Penang, which is under British protection.
I'm the fourth generation living in Penang, and 3rd generation being born in Penang.
Last edited by north_malaysian; 05-21-2008 at 07:46 AM.
1960s story... I thought ... it's centuries ago...
Pendang people are very religious... I knew that.
I've met a lady in Legal Aid Bureau, Butterworth saying that her ancestors came from Bangkok area... she said that most of "Penangite Malays" which have Thai ancestry came from Central Thai, especially Bangkok area. She, herself claiming her ancestors were part of Thai royal family. Many people want to kill them as they left Buddhism. They ran away from Bangkok after converting Islam. She even claimed that the Royal family sent assassins to kill her ancestors. Because of that, many Muslim Thais from Bangkok area found refuge in Penang, which is under British protection.
I'm the fourth generation living in Penang, and 3rd generation being born in Penang.
That is scary, can they still detect their surname? Maybe it is the time to establish an association to protect Muslim Thai in Malaysia. Many Thai who became Muslim have to undergo sufferings because they are not too many and seperated from each others. Like my auntie in law who were arrested in Bangkok and forced by her family into buddhism, she is from Chiang Mai. I never heard any news from her until now. I am afraid that she were killed.
There are many dynasties in Thailand, the latest till now starting 16th century is called Chakri Dynasty. Before that, the dynasty is known as Si Ayuttaya [Shri Ayodhya] began in 13th century - 15th century. Sukhothai kingdom began in 12th century- 15th century, they moved northern when defeated by Si Ayuttaya.
Before 11th century, there are many native kingdoms in Thailand and northern Malaysia. There are Langkasuka as the pioneer, began in 1st century AD - 13th century. Under Langkasuka, there are Kedah, Patani, Ligor [Nakorn Si Thammarat], and a vast range of Malayan Peninsula area.
According to historical record, Nakorn Si Thammarat [Negara Sri Dharmaraja] or the country of The Glory of Religious King once defeated Sri Lanka in 11th century. The King at that time is called Dharmaraja Chandrabhanu. They are believed to be Malay with Tamil ancestry. A prince from this country whose name is Suryawarman ruled Cambodia and finishing a magnificent Vishnu temple which is Angkor Wat in 10th century AD. Nakorn Si Thammarat previously was known as Ligor and its ancient name is Tambralinga [the land vital with copper].
As what we can see, our history is a bit confusing with many ethnicities and wars, further more the civilization of northern malays are older compared to the Indonesian one. While Malacca Kingdom can easily and obviously being recognized in the history book because it is strategically southern and far from the modern political border. We have to check back the history book of Thailand and Cambodia beside comparing them with Malaysian one.
That is scary, can they still detect their surname? Maybe it is the time to establish an association to protect Muslim Thai in Malaysia. Many Thai who became Muslim have to undergo sufferings because they are not too many and seperated from each others. Like my auntie in law who were arrested in Bangkok and forced by her family into buddhism, she is from Chiang Mai. I never heard any news from her until now. I am afraid that she were killed.
Because of the threats, they completely became Malays... and want nothing to do with their Thai ancestry anymore... but that was decades ago...
I've read a story about a Khmer convert to Islam in Mastika, who fled to Malaysia because her brother (a Cambodian army officer) threat to kill her for leaving Buddhism.
Buddhists suppose to be peaceful people right?
And all Malaysians knew about the a family of Muslim converts being killed by their Hindu relatives for leaving Hinduism.
Because of the threats, they completely became Malays... and want nothing to do with their Thai ancestry anymore... but that was decades ago...
I've read a story about a Khmer convert to Islam in Mastika, who fled to Malaysia because her brother (a Cambodian army officer) threat to kill her for leaving Buddhism.
Buddhists suppose to be peaceful people right?
And all Malaysians knew about the a family of Muslim converts being killed by their Hindu relatives for leaving Hinduism.
This is a bit about Indo-China history. There is a fact about a Cambodian King in 15th century embrace Islam. He is called Ramadhipati, he gained his throne with the help of Malays and Champas at that time. They are now known as Muslim Khmers. The king assasined his uncle, and overthrew him. He became muslim after being the king in Cambodia. His muslim name is Sultan Ibrahim. He is the only muslim king in Cambodia with Muslim Malay ministers.
Because of the threats, they completely became Malays... and want nothing to do with their Thai ancestry anymore... but that was decades ago...
Buddhists suppose to be peaceful people right?
Too bad, they have lost their traditional identity and Thai being ceased in usage in Malaysia because we do not demand Thai national type school like other imigrants who are Chinese and Indian while we are still in our own region or trying to use it at least among our selves.
I think speaking in Thai won't make us less muslim, we even can spread the da'awa to others or at least giving them some knowledge about our religion. We also giving our respect to Malay as the national and unifying language in Malaysia.
Muslim Thai can establish their own cultural system with Islamic base, like buddhist can't think themselves as any other except with buddhism.
I think they mistook their religion and not performing the eight margas (paths) well. That is why they become violent, not all buddhist are bad and not all muslim are bad.
I make friends with many buddhist Thai from Thailand instead of muslim, they even surprised that I speak in buddhist way when I talk to them while I am a muslim. Last time, I have to learn Thai again because the dialect that we use in the village in Perlis and Kedah is mixed with Malay different from the central part of Thailand Our religion may be different but under the same traditional culture we are shadowed.
Here are the days of a week in Thai, I shall give you the standard one with some brief explanation:
Wan Athik : Sunday
Wan Jan : Monday
Wan Angkahn : Tuesday
Wan Put : Wednesday
Wan Brahaksabodi : Thursday
Wan Suk : Friday
Wan Sau : Saturday
All 7 days in a week name are derived from Sanskrit days' system. The word Wan (day) is traditionally spelled as วาร (wAra) in traditional Thai script, but pronounced as waN because every word ends with "r" will be changed into "n". This word is a Sanskrit loanword in Thai. Nowadays it is simply spelled as วัน (Wan) in modern Thai spelling.
Here is the original pronunciation of the days in Sanskrit starting from Sunday to Saturday, when you read Thai script in Sanskrit way of writing.
Too bad, they have lost their traditional identity and Thai being ceased in usage in Malaysia because we do not demand Thai national type school like other imigrants who are Chinese and Indian while we are still in our own region or trying to use it at least among our selves.
I think speaking in Thai won't make us less muslim, we even can spread the da'awa to others or at least giving them some knowledge about our religion. We also giving our respect to Malay as the national and unifying language in Malaysia.
Muslim Thai can establish their own cultural system with Islamic base, like buddhist can't think themselves as any other except with buddhism.
I think they mistook their religion and not performing the eight margas (paths) well. That is why they become violent, not all buddhist are bad and not all muslim are bad.
I make friends with many buddhist Thai from Thailand instead of muslim, they even surprised that I speak in buddhist way when I talk to them while I am a muslim. Last time, I have to learn Thai again because the dialect that we use in the village in Perlis and Kedah is mixed with Malay different from the central part of Thailand Our religion may be different but under the same traditional culture we are shadowed.
Love to brothers and sisters in faith
I've heard that currently, many Thais in Bangkok area converted to Islam.
I've heard that currently, many Thais in Bangkok area converted to Islam.
That is contradictory with the southern area, Thais near border in the southern part are stern buddhist although they have contacts with muslim relatives and friends. Most of the South Thais, buddhist or muslim have Malay ancestry due to Sriwijaya conquest centuries ago. You can see that most of them are tanned skin people especially Thais in Songkhla, Saturn, and Nakorn Si Thammarat, resembling typical Malays. They may also have Indian ancestry and Arabian ancestry.
That is contradictory with the southern area, Thais near border in the southern part are stern buddhist although they have contacts with muslim relatives and friends. Most of the South Thais, buddhist or muslim have Malay ancestry due to Sriwijaya conquest centuries ago. You can see that most of them are tanned skin people especially Thais in Songkhla, Saturn, and Nakorn Si Thammarat, resembling typical Malays. They may also have Indian ancestry and Arabian ancestry.
Many people think that I'm a Chinese... as I am a lil bit fairer than average "Malays"... I said to them that I dont know if I have any Chinese ancestry, but my mother is so white and her ancestors were Thais...Maybe her ancestors were Chinese of Thailand... who knows?
Many people think that I'm a Chinese... as I am a lil bit fairer than average "Malays"... I said to them that I dont know if I have any Chinese ancestry, but my mother is so white and her ancestors were Thais...Maybe her ancestors were Chinese of Thailand... who knows?
Yea, actually people in the central part or Bangkok are mixed blood with Chinese especially with the Teochews. Genuine Thai are also fair skin people, but their eyes are a bit sharp at the edge but bigger than Chinese, not slant one. You can find them in Chiangmai, they are called Thai Shan. Many people in south think that they are good looking because they are mixed with fair skin.
Chakri dynasty also established by Commander Thaksin in 16th century, if my memory is still good. I think he become the first Chakkaphat (Maharaja) of Siam from Chakri dynasty after he took over the power from Ayuttaya dynasty. Thaksin was a Chinese merchant family name in Siam. They are Teochew Chinese.
By the way, Central Thai dialect have many Chinese words... Some of them are
Ooy : sugarcane
Tock ee : table
Gauw ee : chair
Cha : tea
Yea, actually people in the central part or Bangkok are mixed blood with Chinese especially with the Teochews. Genuine Thai are also fair skin people, but their eyes are a bit sharp at the edge but bigger than Chinese, not slant one. You can find them in Chiangmai, they are called Thai Shan. Many people in south think that they are good looking because they are mixed with fair skin.
My eyes are a lil bit sharp at the edge... and bigger than chinese... and the another difference that I have is that I have a very curvy eyebrows... and it's original... many people asked me whether did I shave my eyebrows?
I think Kelantanese and people from eastern of Kedah are real Siamese (Thai) with Arab or Chinese mix. Many friends from Kelantan or Kota Bharu are handsome and beautiful. I can't deny that eventho they speak strange dialect.
While for me, I am not genuine Malay or Thai. I have Indian ancestry from my father side. Long time ago, there are Indian and Siamese population in Kokdiang. Nowadays, they are difficult to be identified because intermarried can't be avoided in multi-racial comunity. Most of people in Kokdiang nowadays speak Kedahan Malay or Kedahan Thai even the person with Indian ancestry.
My siblings appearance represents multi-racial faces. Some look Indian and some look Chinese with slant eyes. Some with fair skin while others a bit dark. Our nose are Indian kind of nose I think. I think, I look Indian than a Malay or a Thai but sometimes I was confused as a Chinese because my skin is fair. I think my eyes are big, they only look small because of the spects that I wear :blind:
Last edited by malayloveislam; 05-22-2008 at 08:42 AM.
Reason: punctuation
Here is the days of a week in Thai script maybe you can have some picture about how they are being written and pronounced if you have some basic in any Indian script
วันอาทิฅย์ wan Atit
วันจันทร์ wan chant
วันอังการ wan anggarn
วันพุธ wan puth
วันพฦหัสบดี wan prrhaksabodi
วันศุกร์ wan suk
วันเสาร wan sau
วันนี้วันอะไร?
Wan ni wan arai?
วันนี้เปนวันพุธ
Wan ni pein wan puth
huh, this is a bit too difficult I think for Thai beginners This is just an example, do not worry we still will stick to Roman script.
Thai words are spelled without any space in a sentence. It is a bit difficult for beginners to learn Thai except they have some basic knowledge or speak at least informal Thai if they never learn the script before. It is much easier to learn Thai as an oral language rather than learning it as a written language. Because their writing system may be confusing and different according to region in Thailand.
All the best
Love to brothers and sisters in faith
Last edited by malayloveislam; 05-22-2008 at 10:02 AM.
Thuk thuk wan suk, kon phu nai Maleisia kon la pai Mesjid lorbad.
Every Fridays, men in Malaysia go to mosque for prayer.
Tiap-tiap Jumaat, orang jantan kat Malaysia ramai-ramai pi mesjid semayang.
Setiap hari Jumaat, kaum lelaki di Malaysia beramai-ramai ke masjid untuk bersembahyang.
thuk-thuk : every
kon phu : male, it is a rough form of Thai for men, jantan
nai : in
kon la : several people, many people, ramai orang
pai : go
lorbad : muslim prayer, worship Allah
My siblings appearance represents multi-racial faces. Some look Indian and some look Chinese with slant eyes. Some with fair skin while others a bit dark. Our nose are Indian kind of nose I think. I think, I look Indian than a Malay or a Thai but sometimes I was confused as a Chinese because my skin is fair. I think my eyes are big, they only look small because of the spects that I wear :blind:
If there is a gathering of all my relatives... people would think it as a multiracial conference... intermarriage between ethnic groups is a normal thing in Penang...everybody knows that.
Here is the days of a week in Thai script maybe you can have some picture about how they are being written and pronounced if you have some basic in any Indian script
วันอาทิฅย์ wan Atit
วันจันทร์ wan chant
วันอังการ wan anggarn
วันพุธ wan puth
วันพฦหัสบดี wan prrhaksabodi
วันศุกร์ wan suk
วันเสาร wan sau
วันนี้วันอะไร?
Wan ni wan arai?
วันนี้เปนวันพุธ
Wan ni pein wan puth
huh, this is a bit too difficult I think for Thai beginners This is just an example, do not worry we still will stick to Roman script.
Thai words are spelled without any space in a sentence. It is a bit difficult for beginners to learn Thai except they have some basic knowledge or speak at least informal Thai if they never learn the script before. It is much easier to learn Thai as an oral language rather than learning it as a written language. Because their writing system may be confusing and different according to region in Thailand.
Sure, if you would like to But I am not as good as Thais with formal education in Thailand. I learned Thai script informally from buddhist friends from Thailand.
We just speak in Thai among ourselves, but illiterate in its own script because we do not attend temple classes like local buddhists as we are muslim.
I'm glad to bring muslim Thais back to their root beside giving some informations about muslim Thais' way of life in Kedah to other Thais and friends.
We can also bridge good relationship with Malaysians in the East Coast because they think that they are the only people with different background in Malaysia. You will surprised when discovering lots of common things between Kedahan-Malay and Kelantanese Malay through Southern Thai dialect or Patanese variation of Malay. Kedahans realize this, but I notice that Kelantanese not.
I found that the alphabets in Thai are complicated. They are many rules in writing it. Learn them slowly and step by step, take your time and don't rush. We will try doing them slowly without hard sweating.
While learning the script, try to grab as many words through sentences given in Roman script and compare them with Kedahan Malay or English.
There are three classes of consonants in Thai script. Low, Mid, and High. You will have to deal with tones later, so better trying to recognize the consonants first. In Pali-Sanskrit way of writing, Thai script are actually less complicated than the genuine one because the genuine Thai have 5 tones like in Chinese.
Here are low class consonants, they are 24 consonants in this class
ค ฅ ฆ ง ช ซ ฌ ญ ฑ ฒ ณ ท ธ น พ ฟ
ภ ม ย ร ล ว ฬ ฮ
The transliteration are simply like these, they are almost the same taught in Wat (temples) in Malaysia and Thai school in Thailand. Guess that I have to check my notebooks back
ko kho kho ngo cho so cho nyo tho tho no to tho no po
fo pho mo yo ro lo wo lo ho
Don't worry much about the script, they are not as important as the spoken language. You won't need them unless you are dealing with documents or living in Thailand
Last edited by malayloveislam; 05-22-2008 at 07:15 PM.
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? Maybe it is the time to establish an association to protect Muslim Thai in Malaysia. Many Thai who became Muslim have to undergo sufferings because they are not too many and seperated from each others. Like my auntie in law who were arrested in Bangkok and forced by her family into buddhism, she is from Chiang Mai. I never heard any news from her until now. I am afraid that she were killed.
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