Allah only tests those He loves?

[- Qatada -]

Do you mean to say that Prophet peace be upon him forbid us from praying regularly or to commit irregularities or to start praying more than normal in times of difficulty and not to pay attention to resolve the problem properly?

If he said so then please give the proof from Quran and Hadidth as you always claim yourself to be a champion of Quran and Sunnah. You use this very often in order to knock out others when you run out of arguments.

:salamext:


I'm not a 'champion' bro , all i want is evidence for your claim. Don't you know that our religion depends upon the evidences? To define what an act of worship is and what isn't? Therefore we need evidences from Qur'an or Sunnah to prove that what you said is true. If it's not - then it doesn't need to be accepted. The same applies to me - what i say doesn't hold any weight unless i back it with proofs.


And sister nuj, maasha Allaah yeah - that's a good example of how even the Prophets of Allaah prayed humbly to Allaah seeking His help.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

hey hey hey....guys im starting to sense some bad vibes!

nwy didnt Rasulallah (SAW) during the battle of Badr, do his best in arranging the army...and then he prayed and prayed and prayed (more than usual) until his cloak fell off his shoulders and then Abu Bakr (RA) came and told him to stop and rest and surley Allah will help them..

and Allah did reinforce them with a thousand angels..and then more.

correct me if im wrong...but that kinda proves we need to pray extra in times of hardship.

Prophets worshiped more in times of hardship. They were successful in this way. *Read the history of successful prophets)

Normal people need to work harder in times of hardship. They're successful in this way. (Read the history of successful nations)

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. [Qur'an Al-Ahzaab 33:21]


​

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:


all good is from Allah and errors are from ourselves.

may Allah forgive imam ibn qayyim al jawziyyah rahimahullah if he made a mistake.

he remains one of the greatest imams with innumerable jewels, but he is not infallible.


now bro, we;ll take this question to a sheikh.

may Allah protect us from useless talk

Ameen


oh and may he protect us from Al-Kasl

Ameen!

 

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


I'm not a 'champion' bro , all i want is evidence for your claim. Don't you know that our religion depends upon the evidences? To define what an act of worship is and what isn't? Therefore we need evidences from Qur'an or Sunnah to prove that what you said is true. If it's not - then it doesn't need to be accepted. The same applies to me - what i say doesn't hold any weight unless i back it with proofs.


And sister nuj, maasha Allaah yeah - that's a good example of how even the Prophets of Allaah prayed humbly to Allaah seeking His help.

So give the evidence from Quran and Hadith that Prophet peace be upon him forbid Muslims to pray regularly and start performing abnormal rituals in times of difficulty. What gurantee did he give that angels will certainly come to help you if you prefer to do extra prayers and pay less attention to address your problem practically? Give your proof.

 

[Confucius]

:salamext:

Verily in the messenger of Allah ye have a good example for him who looketh unto Allah and the Last Day, and remembereth Allah much. [Qur'an Al-Ahzaab 33:21]​

i wanna gonna say that lol. As we are the ummah of rasuallah (SAW) we follow HIS path and HIS way...its the one's to go away from the sunnah of the prophet (SAW) that are led astray.

we see our Prophet (SAW) pray in times of distress....we do the same, we see him pray when the solar eclipse occured, we do the same, etc.

 

[- Qatada -]

So give the evidence from Quran and Hadith that Prophet peace be upon him forbid Muslims to pray regularly and start performing abnormal rituals in times of difficulty. What gurantee did he give that angels will certainly come to help you if you prefer to do extra prayers and pay less attention to address your problem practically? Give your proof.

Did i say he guaranteed angels would come to us if we prayed to Allaah?


I'll tell you some beneficial ahadith though related to dua':



The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

"Caution will be of no benefit against divine decree, but du' a benefits all things, whether they come down or not. I therefore advise you to make du'a, O servants of Allah" (Ahmad, Abu Ya'la and al-Tabarani)!


"Nothing repels divine decree except du'a, and nothing increases one's lifespan except good deeds" (Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Hakim).


"There is no Muslim on the face of the earth that asks Allah for anything except that Allah gives it to him, or averts from him a similar evil, as long as he does not ask for something evil or for breaking the ties of kinship" (Al-Tirmidhi).


It is the Sunnah of the Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam to make the following du'a during the witr prayer:

"...Bless me in what You have given me. And avert and turn away from me the evil that has been decreed for me, for verily You decree (all things), and none can decree against You..."​

(Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Nasa'i)​

​

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-islam/27503-dua-supplication-its-relationship-destiny.html

 

[iqbal_soofi]

Did i say he guaranteed angels would come to us if we prayed to Allaah?


I'll tell you some beneficial ahadith though related to dua':



The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

"Caution will be of no benefit against divine decree, but du' a benefits all things, whether they come down or not. I therefore advise you to make du'a, O servants of Allah" (Ahmad, Abu Ya'la and al-Tabarani)!


Nothing repels divine decree except du'a, and nothing increases one's lifespan except good deeds" (Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Hakim).
"There is no Muslim on the face of the earth that asks Allah for anything except that Allah gives it to him, or averts from him a similar evil, as long as he does not ask for something evil or for breaking the ties of kinship" (Al-Tirmidhi).

It is the Sunnah of the Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam to make the following du'a during the witr prayer:
"...Bless me in what You have given me. And avert and turn away from me the evil that has been decreed for me, for verily You decree (all things), and none can decree against You..."(Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Nasa'i)

This is not the answer to my question. You may depend upon extra prayers only if you don't want to do anything practically to solve the problem. But in times of difficulty if you want to face the problem and to solve it gracefully, then you need more time to plan out approperiate strategy to handle the problem and then work physically to get through it step by step. An experience in successfully solving the problems makes you a more useful person than those who try to avoid their problems and try to get help from spiritualists. This kind of loser attitude gives opportunities for the professional spiritualists and other kinds of thugs to expand their business. Now let's see the results in our societies. In our countries professional spiritualists and religious scholars are making a great business, whereas our problems are not decreasing because we think that they're averted with dua. To solve our problems we get loans, aids and help from the developed countries. Many of us leave our own countries to work in the developed countries for jobs in order to solve the increasing financial problems. The developed countries are developed because people in those countries took the right path to solve their problems instead of making duas.

 

[Confucius]

Salamualaikum,

i think this convo shud end here...im seeing that its like a dog chasing its own tail...its getting nowhere!

both parties are adamant on their own views....and personally the convo is being derived of its benefits because of the on going argument...

We shud keep following the sunnah of the prophet (SAW) and be sincere in our actions, for faults occur with insincerity.

and Allah knows best.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

i wanna gonna say that lol. As we are the ummah of rasuallah (SAW) we follow HIS path and HIS way...its the one's to go away from the sunnah of the prophet (SAW) that are led astray.

we see our Prophet (SAW) pray in times of distress....we do the same, we see him pray when the solar eclipse occured, we do the same, etc.

There's no disagreement on what the Prophet peace be upon said. Only disagreement is that whether he said it or not. There's no proof about the authencity of his sayings. We can verify it from the results in our day life. If something works and his name is used then it's possible that he said it; and something doesn't work but his name is used then it's possible he never said it.

The dua thing doesn't make you successful in your test. It's the right strategy and hard work that always works. That's why I gave you the example of failed nations that depend more on duas. The successful nations depend on right strategy and hard work. But since this hurts the business of religious people, therefore, they'd still keep on argumenting with real proof of success and logic. This is their way of fooling others

 

[Confucius]

Allah Knows best! lol. im not saying aaaanything furthur.
Dead end.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

Allah Knows best! lol. im not saying aaaanything furthur.
Dead end.

It's not only Allah but everybody knows that you can't achieve success without doing something. Let's examine the power of dua and hardwork seperately.

Case 1: Dua You don't go to work and make dua that you'll get your salary.
Result: You'll not get any salary.

Case 2: Work You go to work and don't make any dua.
Result: You'll still get salary.

The same results apply for solving any other problem.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I've stated many times already that dua' should be performed when we have done all we have control over. There's no contradiction, and like the Messenger of Allaah himself said "Tie the camel, then place your trust in Allaah."

 

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


I've stated many times already that dua' should be performed when we have done all we have control over. There's no contradiction, and like the Messenger of Allaah himself said "Tie the camel, then place your trust in Allaah."

So you agree that there's no magic in dua? Dua works only when something is done properly? The real magic is in doing the things propley in fact. If something is done properly, then it'll fix the problem. Dua is made to put your own mind on peace only. It has nothing to do with the problem. But if you don't do anything to fix the problem and just make a dua and go to sleep, then the problem may become a disaster. Am I right?

Now let me come to the current state of affairs of Ummah. Everyone who claims to be a champion of Islam teaches us just fundamentals of Islam and suggests all kinds of duas and wazeefas but gives us no clue on how to fix our growing prblems practically. The Ummah is just looking for the peace of mind in the middle of their growing economic and social problems. People put their minds to peace with all these duas. Our problems are becoming disasters for us. In these circumstances the thugs are shining their business more by selling all kinds of generic and patent duas. Ummah is revolving around the fundamentals whereas the disasters are revolving around Ummah. Nobody knows how to fix those problems. Everybody is begging from Allah without taking any positive measures to fix the issues.

 

[Re.TiReD]

SubhanAllah, it's nice to see this thread opened up alotta discussion I don't have time to reply to all of the comments or answer the questions but I've learnt alot from it Alhamdulillah. JazakAllah Khayr

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

So you agree that there's no magic in dua? Dua works only when something is done properly? The real magic is in doing the things propley in fact. If something is done properly, then it'll fix the problem. Dua is made to put your own mind on peace only. It has nothing to do with the problem. But if you don't do anything to fix the problem and just make a dua and go to sleep, then the problem may become a disaster. Am I right?

No, dua' isn't simply to put your mind at ease. Our supplication to Allaah is showing Allaah that we are dependant upon Him, and it shows that we have placed our trust in Him. Two people might both do a similar action, but the one who prayed may gain success whereas the other one never, why? Because they relied on Allaah whereas the other never.

If you don't agree, bring your proof otherwise from something which we can both have common ground on.

Now let me come to the current state of affairs of Ummah. Everyone who claims to be a champion of Islam teaches us just fundamentals of Islam and suggests all kinds of duas and wazeefas but gives us no clue on how to fix our growing prblems practically. The Ummah is just looking for the peace of mind in the middle of their growing economic and social problems. People put their minds to peace with all these duas. Our problems are becoming disasters for us. In these circumstances the thugs are shining their business more by selling all kinds of generic and patent duas. Ummah is revolving around the fundamentals whereas the disasters are revolving around Ummah. Nobody knows how to fix those problems. Everybody is begging from Allah without taking any positive measures to fix the issues.

We take the positive measures, and follow the prophetic example - i.e. working hard and striving towards creating an islamic state etc. yet at the same time we place our trust in Allaah by praying to Him to make us successful.

 

[Confucius]

salamunalikum...

i have to disagree..to u saying Dua isnt magic....it is MAGIC....remeber when Musa (AS) was confronted with the Sea, and the army of Firawn was behind him, and Bani Israel were pressurising him, what did he do??? He Prayed....i doubt the sea wud have split open for him for no reason....even if he got big buckets he cudnt have emptied out the sea in time to cross before the army reached him..

the dua was the magic...having tawaqul of Allah (SWT), and being sincere in seeking guidance and help. that was the magic.

Basically do both. Try ur best to solve situation, yet stay humble and call Allah to solve the problem, for a human with a atoms wight of arrogance in the heart will not enter jannah, and to think u can solve the trials Allah sets u, on ur own is arrogance.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


The term 'magic/sihr' isn't really a good term to use for this, since magic is associated with illusions and something not being real.

The response to the dua' of Allaah is a blessing from Allaah to us, and magic is simply an illusion. Therefore they aren't alike and can't be termed as the same thing.

And Allaah knows best.

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

:salamext:




No, dua' isn't simply to put your mind at ease. Our supplication to Allaah is showing Allaah that we are dependant upon Him, and it shows that we have placed our trust in Him. Two people might both do a similar action, but the one who prayed may gain success whereas the other one never, why? Because they relied on Allaah whereas the other never. .

:salamext:

mashaAllah good stuff and i would just like to add that success isnt always what we percieve it to be. For example both of them may get exactly the same results and at the same time one may lose whislt the other may win. Why you might wonder well allow me to give an example

If two brothers participated in a jihad fi-sabilillah and both brothers lost lets think about how one could win whilst the other lose.

brother 1: Has sabr and trusts that Allah has done what is best and is pleased with the qadr of Allah so is thereful successful due to the imense reward that his patience at the strike of calamity has braught him !

The best life is attained by the blessed through patience, and they rise to the highest degrees through their gratitude. So they fly on the wings of patience and gratitude to gardens of delight (i.e., Paradise). That is the bounty of Allaah that He bestows upon whomsoever He will, and Allaah is the Owner of Great Bounty.
End quote from ‘Uddat al-Saabireen by Ibn al-Qayyim, p. 3-5. ​

brother 2: Is outraged and loses trust in Allah and thereby loses his imaan by reducing good works. ​

​

PS: I mainly done this to put in imam ibn al qayyims quote

 

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:




No, dua' isn't simply to put your mind at ease. Our supplication to Allaah is showing Allaah that we are dependant upon Him, and it shows that we have placed our trust in Him. Two people might both do a similar action, but the one who prayed may gain success whereas the other one never, why? Because they relied on Allaah whereas the other never.

If you don't agree, bring your proof otherwise from something which we can both have common ground on.

Let me give the proof from the example quoted by yourself:

A person came to the Prophet peace be upon him he didn't tie his camel but made the dua and slept but the camel was gone when he woke up.

So the dua made the person on ease only and didn't work on the camel. And that's whole purpose of dua. It doesn't solve any real problem. You've to fix the problem yourself and then do the dua. Dua only makes you at ease so that you stop worrying about any other potential dangers which are not in your immediate knowledge but could harm you.