Allah only tests those He loves?

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:

:salamext:


I've stated many times already that dua' should be performed when we have done all we have control over. There's no contradiction, and like the Messenger of Allaah himself said "Tie the camel, then place your trust in Allaah."

Alhamdulillah i've already stated that, however - dua' is an important factor after you have done all you have control over. I might have took all the medicines needed - but they won't cure me until Allaah wills it. So i pray to Allaah to make this medicines a means to my cure.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:




Alhamdulillah i've already stated that, however - dua' is an important factor after you have done all you have control over. I might have took all the medicines needed - but they won't cure me until Allaah wills it. So i pray to Allaah to make this medicines a means to my cure.

Medicines sometimes don't cure even when you make a lot of dua. Maybe the doctor failed to diagnose properly or he didn't give proper medicine or the patient didn't follow the advice properly. If given the right medicine then those who don't believe in dua are also cured.

Let me give the proof from the example quoted by yourself earlier:

A person came to the Prophet peace be upon him he didn't tie his camel but made the dua and slept but the camel was gone when he woke up.

So the dua made the person on ease only and didn't work on the camel. And that's whole purpose of dua. It doesn't solve any real problem. You've to fix the problem yourself and then do the dua. Dua only makes you at ease so that you stop worrying about any other potential dangers which are not in your immediate knowledge but could harm you.
__________________

 

[- Qatada -]

Medicines sometimes don't cure even when you make a lot of dua. Maybe the doctor failed to diagnose properly or he didn't give proper medicine or the patient didn't follow the advice properly. If given the right medicine then those who don't believe in dua are also cured.

Let me give the proof from the example quoted by yourself earlier:

A person came to the Prophet peace be upon him he didn't tie his camel but made the dua and slept but the camel was gone when he woke up.

So the dua made the person on ease only and didn't work on the camel. And that's whole purpose of dua. It doesn't solve any real problem. You've to fix the problem yourself and then do the dua. Dua only makes you at ease so that you stop worrying about any other potential dangers which are not in your immediate knowledge but could harm you.
__________________

Nope, first of all we need a source for that statement. So please provide that. And second - we've already stated that the Messenger of Allaah himself stated that we have to tie it first, then put our trust in Allaah.

One day Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah" (Recorded in Tirmidhi).

​

We place our trust in Allaah and make dua' to Him which shows our reliance upon Him, otherwise we would be exactly like the non muslims by doing what we have control over and then doing nothing at all. So instead we follow the Prophetic example and the way of the muslims who followed his way and the way of his companions, these people were the ones who were successful.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

Nope, first of all we need a source for that statement. So please provide that. And second - we've already stated that the Messenger of Allaah himself stated that we have to tie it first, then put our trust in Allaah.

One day Prophet Muhammad, peace and blessings be upon him, noticed a Bedouin leaving his camel without tying it. He asked the Bedouin, "Why don't you tie down your camel?" The Bedouin answered, "I put my trust in Allah." The Prophet then said, "Tie your camel first, then put your trust in Allah" (Recorded in Tirmidhi).

​

We place our trust in Allaah and make dua' to Him which shows our reliance upon Him, otherwise we would be exactly like the non muslims by doing what we have control over and then doing nothing at all. So instead we follow the Prophetic example and the way of the muslims who followed his way and the way of his companions, these people were the ones who were successful.

So you say almost the same thing which I'm saying. That you do the things properly to fix a problem. The dua doesn't fix the problem. It's only necessary to make sure you're a Muslim. A non Muslim doesn't need to make a dua to show his trust in Allah, but a Muslim must make a dua to show his trust in Allah.

 

[...]

Remember that no matter what you do it won't work unless Allah wants it to, which is why we pray to Him.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

Remember that no matter what you do it won't work unless Allah wants it to, which is why we pray to Him.

Well that's a different matter. We pray to Allah because we're ordered to. Allah does whatever he wants. We cannot change his decision with our prayers. He is almighty. He always makes the best decisions. We cannot stop Him from sending floods or other natural disasters with dua or prayers. However, we can save ourselves or minimize our damages by acting properly and timely.

 

[...]

One of the two things that can change your destiny is prayer.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


It does though ^ that's why the Messenger of Allaah himself said:

"Caution will be of no benefit against divine decree, but du' a benefits all things, whether they come down or not. I therefore advise you to make du'a, O servants of Allah" (Ahmad, Abu Ya'la and al-Tabarani)!


"Nothing repels divine decree except du'a, and nothing increases one's lifespan except good deeds" (Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Hakim).


"There is no Muslim on the face of the earth that asks Allah for anything except that Allah gives it to him, or averts from him a similar evil, as long as he does not ask for something evil or for breaking the ties of kinship" (Al-Tirmidhi).


It is the Sunnah of the Prophet sal Allaahu alayhi wa sallam to make the following du'a during the witr prayer:

"...Bless me in what You have given me. And avert and turn away from me the evil that has been decreed for me, for verily You decree (all things), and none can decree against You..."​

(Al-Tirmidhi and Al-Nasa'i)​

​

http://www.islamicboard.com/basics-i...p-destiny.html (Du'a (supplication) and Its Relationship With Destiny*)


Allaah asks us to pray for a reason, the same way He will continously ask the people of paradise to ask Him for anything they desire - so He may grant it to them out of His Mercy. May Allaah make us the dwellers of His jannah, ameen.

 

[...]

Allah says in the Qur’an:

“Your Lord says, ‘pray to Me, and I will answer you.’” (40: 60)

 

[- Qatada -]

Allah says in the Qur’an:

“Your Lord says, ‘pray to Me, and I will answer you.’” (40: 60)

:salamext:


The verse doesn't finish there sister ^ :

The Messenger of Allaah (peace be upon him) said:

Indeed the supplication is the worship. [Musnad Ahmad]

Then he recited,

And your Lord said: "Call upon Me, I will answer you. Verily, those who scorn My worship they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!''.
​

[Qur'an Ghaafir 40:60]
​

 

[...]

Jazakallah khair

 

[------]

And your Lord said: "Call upon Me, I will answer you. Verily, those who scorn My worship they will surely enter Hell in humiliation!''.

[Qur'an Ghaafir 40:60]

:salamext:

Indeed, which is referring to praying 5 times a day, right?

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


I think it's referring to dua' in that context ^ and Allaah knows best.


Here's the tafsir/explanation of that verse inshaa Allaah:
http://tafsir.com/default.asp?sid=40&tid=46226


And we know that even most of our 5 daily salawaat mainly involve supplications to Allaah azawajal.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

One of the two things that can change your destiny is prayer.

Which is the second thing?

And what exactly do you mean by destiny here? We're discussing about fixing our problems.

I and Fi_Sabilillah already agreed that problems could be fixed only by working properly on them. Saying prayer is another issue which is a mandatory ritual for you to prove that you're a Muslim. Muslims have to say their prayers in addition to working properly on the problems. Non Muslims get their job done only by working on the related problem. They change their destiny in this world by simply working. Everybody's destiny for the next world, however, is already determined.

 

[- Qatada -]

:salamext:


Bro iqbaal, i never said that. I said we have to do what we have control over, then pray - which shows that we are placing our trust in Allaah. And then i gave the example of two guys taking the same medicine with the same illness, at the same time - and only one getting cured, therefore prayer is really important also.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

:salamext:

There's a difference between salah and du'a. So maybe people should make it clear what they mean by 'prayer'?

Oh, and, please use evidences for your claims or your post may be deleted due to rule 18.

 

[iqbal_soofi]

:salamext:


Bro iqbaal, i never said that. I said we have to do what we have control over, then pray - which shows that we are placing our trust in Allaah. And then i gave the example of two guys taking the same medicine with the same illness, at the same time - and only one getting cured, therefore prayer is really important also.

How could you say that nobody could be cured by just taking the medicince? I can prove that many people get cured by just taking proper medication without any prayer or dua. I fell sick many times in my life and got well with just medicines. I even survived Lymphoma (one of the dealy cancers) only with chemo and radiation therapy. I can give you examples of people who died of the same disease even when they took the medication and said more prayers and duas than usual. The reason may be they were much too afraid of the disease and in addition to that they were afraid of Allah. I was able to survive because I had full confidence that my doctors were giving me proper medication (which I verified through different sources during the course of my treatment) and that I believed that Allah is with me. I had no reason to be afraid of Him. I always believed that He is merciful and beneficient. He wants us not to be afraid of Him especially in our hard times and to stop worrying unnecessarily for Him.

 

[MinAhlilHadeeth]

How could you say that nobody could be cured by just taking the medicince? I can prove that many people get cured by just taking proper medication without any prayer or dua. I fell sick many times in my life and got well with just medicines. I even survived Lymphoma (one of the dealy cancers) only with chemo and radiation therapy. I can give you examples of people who died of the same disease even when they took the medication and said more prayers and duas than usual. The reason may be they were much too afraid of the disease and in addition to that they were afraid of Allah. I was able to survive because I had full confidence that my doctors were giving me proper medication (which I verified through different sources during the course of my treatment) and that I believed that Allah is with me. I had no reason to be afraid of Him. I always believed that He is merciful and beneficient. He wants us not to be afraid of Him especially in our hard times and to stop worrying unnecessarily for Him.

:salamext:

Maybe you should consider that it was Allah who cured you through the medicine? No one accomplishes anything on their own. It is through the blessings and mercy of Allah. Remember what you were created from, and be grateful to Allah.

 

[Woodrow]

This thread is starting to go down hill and appears to be in violation of forum rule 18.