All I'm saying is that the hadiths contradict themselves and that the description of the embrionic/fetal developement the first hadith gives is flawed. Id' like your comment on that.
They don't contradict themselves, you just simply need to understand the subject at hand!
We're not discussing Galen. And no one ever claimed Galen's wrok is divine.
My initial criticism of the hadith had nothing to do with the 9 day difference and it still doesn't, however you brought up gender recognition, so I replied, I may be splitting hair.
This discussion started off albeit not with your person on where the prophet got the embryological knowledge, when the Galen thing didn't work out, you or a number of you are going after content, which frankly you can't it is too profound, unless it really is by way of splitting hair.. and it is a nine day difference if at all on that population observed as per the urology journal I referenced
Of course, very few values in medcine are absolute, yet the hadith gives a very precise number and you don't seem to be bothered with that.
and let me quote you:
No I am not bothered with that, the words of the prophet aren't the words of the Quran for me to look for absolution, you haven't provided me with whether it is tawatur of ohad that is two, and lastly it really isn't far off, that it is actually quite remarkable, and unparalleled throughout the centuries, given the dates on the journal above being quite a modern find!
She's not normal. she was born with both male and female sexual organs and she can't have children.
She is genetically male but a phenotypic female, with external sex characteristics of females, she had normal breast enlargement at puberty, but does not have a uterus, the undescended testes are removed at to not cause tumors, and if we didn't have the sophisitcated modern technology she would appear as any other normal though infertile female! in fact irregardless of her androgen insensitivity many genetically sustained females can also be born without a uterus, or have vaginas that end in a blind pouch due to a number of other problems, thus unless you are running an actual genetic test you couldn't distinguish one from another. Which should lead you to conclude, that you can't use genetic determination at conception as the basis of when one is determined male or female.. when it actually becomes physically manifest is given to you in the specific period quoted above in a medical journal and due to a number of other influences science can only define the anatomy, the physiology the biochemistry the genetics of it. It will always give you a how but not a why-- religion on the other hand will answer that for you whether you care to accept it or not!
I've checked dozens of websites and most say a "conceptus" is considered a fetus somewhere around the 9th week of pregnancy.
I have no idea where you are actually going with this? this isn't a question of embryo or fetus even though I have touched upon that to distinguish the difference, so much as it is a legal ethical issue, which might or might not have anything at all to do with proper developement. Again I don't have the time to go into this with such great detail, but even a fetus at 20 weeks has a slim chance of surviving outside the uterus, lung maturation in and of itself happens around the last two or three weeks of pregnancy, those born prior have considerable problems with hyaline disease and a host of other problems, not the subject of this topic, but certainly whatever consensus deems a fetus a human being is decided by a committee and the number established is four months, which is exactly the number established by religion, i.e when a soul is breathed into one..
I guess I was wrong about the US. anyway, abortion legislation varies from country to country.
Every country has a medical ethical committee, and medicine isn't politics so it doesn't run by the same policies, you need to know that the first oath folks take internationally is 'first do no harm', secondly there are rights of children that are completely autonomous from the parents religious beliefs or lack thereof in terms of life and or limb saving treatment...I will not speak for Europe as I am not very familiar with their system, but will speak for middle east and the states and that is how it is!..
to begin with to form an abortion after that period of time, you can't use a conventional dilation and curettage.
It is major surgery, requiring that you crush the skull of a fetus, vacuum suction with major blood loss, as well as possibility for such things as adhesions or ashermans syndrome etc, which most folks are oblivious to when electing to go to such clinics.
That is all I want to impart on the subject so please spare me any more petitio principii.. I know you enjoy debates and under normal circumstances I'd get into this in great detail
however I'll advise you to purchase this book
http://www.amazon.com/Clinical-Ethi...d_bbs_2?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1214599794&sr=8-2
it isn't very expensive but will take care of many legal/medical/ethical issues that you might ponder, which can appear esoteric as in why four or why this, which is futilistic and very expansive for the purpose of our discussion...
