Automakers step up in China as West wobbles

[Fishman]

hey fishman

study ME history and US involvement, i think you'll get a shock of your life. You can be as patrioritic as you want but quite frankly, rest of the Muslim world hates US. We have seen the fruits of this regime and to be honest, this nation and it's crooks are always in our duas (and don't think that as a compliment).

Patriotic? I'm British! In fact I'm also a socialist, which means that I don't have some kind of irrational hatred for Communists either. Their economics are relatively fair, I just don't like the political repression.

Yes, the Muslim world does hate the US. But if China is in power instead, things will be a lot worse. Just ask the people who have suffered because of Chinese intervention. Darfuris. East Turkestanis. Burmese people. Zimbabweans. Kashmiris. Tibetans. Hui Muslims.

But if the Chinese had not broken with the USSR over political differences, then we would all be speaking Russian by now. Any group that controlled that much of Asia would be invincible, with massive amounts of resources, population, nuclear weapons, land, food production, industry and millitary power. they would also be impossible to defeat because they would control the ultimate natural fortress, the Heartland.

 

[islamirama]

China may have its bads and what not. But if it's china vs US then i pick china. why? even if they turn out to be rotten like US, atleast they would be reachable by mujahideens to kick their butt like they did with russians in afghanistan.

 

[Fishman]

China may have its bads and what not. But if it's china vs US then i pick china. why? even if they turn out to be rotten like US, atleast they would be reachable by mujahideens to kick their butt like they did with russians in afghanistan.

The 'Mujahideens' would get pwned and the Chinese would probably kill everybody else too. It was part of Mao's belief system that if you want to catch fish (terrorists and revolutionaries) you shouldn't just fish around with a rod, you should drain the whole lake, meaning destroy the popluation that supports the terrorists. Chinese soldiers have to read Mao's Little Red Book every day.

And the Taliban might have given the Russians a hard time in Afganistan, but that was only because the Americans armed them with SAM missiles, and because they didn't really fight well in the terrain.

 

[islamirama]

Who knows what the future holds, inshallah may Allah guide the muslims and unite them soon.

ameen.

 

[Amadeus85]

I say we give china a chance, cuz we sure as hell don't want US demon-cracy in the Muslim world anymore.

Islamirama, you remind me guys from an old rock band Rage Against the Machine. They were calling USA the "evil empire". They compared U.S presidents to nazi generals, they were hanging out in t-shirts with Che Guevara, they were admiring Fidel Castro etc etc and in the same they they were drinking orange juice in swimming pool in California,using all the benefits of U.S capitalism and democracy.
You Islamirama also lives in U.S right? So why don't you give a chance to China and move there, instead of living in U.S evil empire.

 

[islamirama]

Islamirama, you remind me guys from an old rock band Rage Against the Machine. They were calling USA the "evil empire". They compared U.S presidents to nazi generals, they were hanging out in t-shirts with Che Guevara, they were admiring Fidel Castro etc etc and in the same they they were drinking orange juice in swimming pool in California,using all the benefits of U.S capitalism and democracy.
You Islamirama also lives in U.S right? So why don't you give a chance to China and move there, instead of living in U.S evil empire.

I'm calling it as i see it buddy. US has done more evil then good in the world and majority (muslim or not) will agree with that. Anyways, i'm not living here for free, so why buggin you

 

[Amadeus85]

I'm calling it as i see it buddy. US has done more evil then good in the world and majority (muslim or not) will agree with that. Anyways, i'm not living here for free, so why buggin you

I understand that you pay taxes etc etc. I am also sure that you as a muslim would get more religious freedom in USA than in China.Thats all what I meant. :statisfie

 

[islamirama]

I understand that you pay taxes etc etc. I am also sure that you as a muslim would get more religious freedom in USA than in China.Thats all what I meant. :statisfie

speaking of taxes, there's a growing trend in US of people not paying taxes to protest against the war. People leaving their 100K job to earn minimum wage so they don't have to pay taxes. Very interesting article, i posted here somewhere few days ago. do check it out

 

[barney]

Are you suggesting China would try to conquer the middle east? It sounds more like a video game than reality...

It's in Revelations.

Having said that,The Chucklebrothers riding a cloud to tesco's is in revalations if you squint hard enough. (ill prove that if you like).

There will no doubt be a faction of muslims cheering, as they predict the fall of the evil empire of the USA.
To those, I'll smile and say, take a good look at the world now, and give it a hug.
Because theres one undeniable truth. If China becomes a superpower over America, you can kiss mankind goodbye. The world will be screaming for the Yanks, and it will be sadly far far too late.

 

[islamirama]

It's in Revelations.

Having said that,The Chucklebrothers riding a cloud to tesco's is in revalations if you squint hard enough. (ill prove that if you like).

There will no doubt be a faction of muslims cheering, as they predict the fall of the evil empire of the USA.
To those, I'll smile and say, take a good look at the world now, and give it a hug.
Because theres one undeniable truth. If China becomes a superpower over America, you can kiss mankind goodbye. The world will be screaming for the Yanks, and it will be sadly far far too late.

the world did survived for centuries before the "great and mighty" usa came along. This empire done more evil in it's 200yrs of existence than any other empire. I can understand your fear of change and new super power, especially one that isn't your ally nor your skin color.

 

[Keltoi]

the world did survived for centuries before the "great and mighty" usa came along. This empire done more evil in it's 200yrs of existence than any other empire. I can understand your fear of change and new super power, especially one that isn't your ally nor your skin color.

"This empire done more evil...blah blah than any other empire"....do you really believe that? If so, perhaps you are the one who should study a little history.

In any event, what is at stake is a system of governance, not racial dominance. If Western democracy does fail, which doesn't seem likely, but let us theorize...if it does fail, there will be many millions of people around the world who will yearn for the days of your "evil USA". Talk to some of the people who have lived under Communist rule, ask what superpower they would prefer.

 

[Fishman]

This empire done more evil in it's 200yrs of existence than any other empire.

Ever heard of the Spanish Empire? The Mongol Empire? Or the Nazi Empire? America's atrocities pale in comparison to the genocidal slaughters commited by these countries, and in fact any other empire you can think of with the exeception of the Central African Empire.
In fact, the USA isn't even an empire in the proper sense of the word (a country that rules over many conquered peoples). The current foregin policy may be mildly imperialistic, and there was a kind of semi-empire in the 1800s, but technically it isn't really an empire anyway.

I can understand your fear of change and new super power, especially one that isn't your ally nor your skin color.

I don't know about Barney, but for me skin colour isn't really anything to do with it. I admire Chinese culture, and I think China deserves to be honoured as the only surviving ancient civilisation. But with the current (and recent past) Chinese policies, the idea of China becoming a superpower is rather worrying. I would rather have India or Brazil, to be honest.

 

[barney]

I cant think of another "Empire" that rebuilt a deverstated world up from scratch.
Nor another "Empire" that consisted of its own country, Hawai a few scattered islands and a small bay in Cuba. Thats the worst Empire that controls the world ever.

Still, people are so rabidly anti-american these days, theres no reasoning or showing them facts and logic and history. Truth flies out of the window in the face of propaganda and emotion.

Just have to be a case of wait and see for these people.

 

[Fishman]

Thats the worst Empire that controls the world ever.

Central africa was even more pathetic...

 

[islamirama]

Well lets look at a little facts.

the complete genocide of native americans
the holocaust of africans, destruction of their thriving empire and slavement of their people
the illegal wars with mexico to steal their land (half of USA). only thing these britsh lackies had were the 13 original colonies.
the meddling of in other nation's affairs thru out history. The assasination of their leaders, regime changes, protection of US friendly dictators or puppet regime leaders, all that goes under indirect ruling rather then the old ways of direct ruling, except iraq and afghan.

Anyways, don't know why you all are crying over china coming to power. it's a normal circle of world, one empire falls and another arises.

 

[Fishman]

Well lets look at a little facts.

the complete genocide of native americans

Not complete genocide, native Americans are still alive and well. There was a genocide of them, but most other empires have done similar or worse. And that is hardly the modern USA, that was the semi-empire I mentioned before.

the holocaust of africans, destruction of their thriving empire and slavement of their people

Western Europeans and Arabs started it, and the USA abolished slavery before most other countries did.

the illegal wars with mexico to steal their land (half of USA). only thing these britsh lackies had were the 13 original colonies.

That's pretty minor compared to the other empires. And, as I said before, there was a semi-imperial period in American history. But it doesn't continue into present day.

the meddling of in other nation's affairs thru out history. The assasination of their leaders, regime changes, protection of US friendly dictators or puppet regime leaders, all that goes under indirect ruling rather then the old ways of direct ruling, except iraq and afghan.

Every powerful country does that, not just the USA. Its called politics.

Anyways, don't know why you all are crying over china coming to power. it's a normal circle of world, one empire falls and another arises.

Just because something is normal doesn't mean its good. A volcanic eruption is a normal thing in some places in the world, but that doesn't mean we shouldn't try to escape from getting caught in the blast!


Here is my list of what the Mongols did. I'm sure that you will find it much worse than the USA:
1. Pillaging central Asia so that its economy was (and still is) completely destroyed
2. Sacking cities in central Asia, depopulating the whole region
2+1. Destroying major cities such as Baghdad and Dehli
4. Ending the Caliphate
5. Keeping the Caliph in a small cage
5. Conquering China
6. Devastating China
7. Conquering and devastating eastern Europe.
8. Forcing Siberian natives to pay tribute or be destroyed.
9. Repeatedly betraying their allies.

 

[Fishman]

Oh, great. A thread about empires and I didn't even try to make any silly comments about Civilization IV or the Fishman Empire or something...

Oh, drat! Muttley!

 

[islamirama]

Fishman,

there's no point arguing with you or others here on this topic. apparently you guys have your heart set on what you believe. just a few quick notes.

Mongol was bad, khan killed lots of people. His grandson became a Muslim and fought his own father and destroyed the Mongol empire.

The caliphate was destroyed by the westerners not mongols. it was destroyed in 1923 by the jewish kemal attaturk with western friends like US, France, Britian and few others. Read the history on tis.

anyways, regardless of what you or i believe, what is to come will come and time will tell whose the worst of the lots. I just pray inshallah madhi comes soon and show them.

 

[Fishman]

there's no point arguing with you or others here on this topic. apparently you guys have your heart set on what you believe. just a few quick notes.

Your notes are wrong, see below.

Mongol was bad, he killed lots of people. His grandson became a Muslim and fought his on father and destroyed the Mongol empire.

There is no such person as 'mongol'. the person you are referring to was called 'Genghis Khan'. And his grandson never destroyed the Mongol empire. The empire collapsed in on itself and broke into several 'hordes' or Khanates.

The caliphate was destroyed by the westerners not mongols. it was destroyed in 1923 by the jewish kemal attaturk with western friends like US, France, Britian and few others. Read the history on tis.

I am referring to the original Caliphate, not the Ottoman Empire. The Caliphate I'm talking about was the orginal one that was descended from the Rashidun Empire and the Prophet (peace be upon him)'s state.

anyways, regardless of what you or i believe, what is to come will come and time will tell whose the worst of the lots. I just pray inshallah madhi comes soon and show them.

Ameen.

 

[islamirama]

There is no such person as 'mongol'. the person you are referring to was called 'Genghis Khan'. And his grandson never destroyed the Mongol empire. The empire collapsed in on itself and broke into several 'hordes' or Khanates.

I know, when i say mongol i was refering to mongols, which is why i speicifically mentioned khan in the next sentence. The empire was bound to collapse when the grandson defeated his father and his army. What's an empire without a leader?

I am referring to the original Caliphate, not the Ottoman Empire. The Caliphate I'm talking about was the orginal one that was descended from the Rashidun Empire and the Prophet (peace be upon him)'s state.

Ameen.

The caliphate you are talking about was a caliphate by name only. They were morons at that time. The moron king/caliphate of that time was messing with the khan's people for no reason. He had too much pride in himself. Khan was busy taking over china side of the world when this caliphate started sticking his hand in the bee's nest. Khan sent his diplomats to sort it out and this moron killed the diplomats too. So khan put his work on hold against the chinese and started towards Muslims. He killed 10 million muslims. It was the punishment for muslims who had abandoned islam and were nothing more than muslims by names. And Islam was almost wiped out. Then Allah guided the grandson of khan and made him a defense against the enemies and a beacon of light for islam. Indeed it is easy for Allah to destroy a nation and raise better nation that will obey Allah.