Can the Quran stand the test?

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Umar^111 said:
so are the 3 3 differnt or one
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They are distinct persons, but they are of one substance and constitute one divine being.


Think of a dance if you will. Is the couple 2 different persons or one couple? As soon as you seperate them, you no longer have a dance. The dance is a couple's dance only so long as the two interact with each other as one. Though you can clearly distinguish between the distinct individuals who are the couple, the moment they become independent of the other, they are no longer a couple.
 
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Grace Seeker said:
They are distinct persons, but they are of one substance and constitute one divine being.
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20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.Exodus 33;20
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.John 1:18
this is correct
?
 
^ Grace Seeker.

I understand and I know you and I always agree to disagree but could you please explain to the crowd that if the Father the Son and the Holy spirit always existed before anything ever existed then why was it only ever mentioned when christianity was created. Why did not God (As in the trinitarian God) ever reveal himself and explain his 3 part nature ever before the creation of christianity?? The trinitarian God never exsisted before christianity and no one ever knew of him before this. I will pose the same question in the other thread aswell. Thanks
 
Umar^111 said:
20And he said, Thou canst not see my face: for there shall no man see me, and live.Exodus 33;20
18No one has ever seen God, but God the One and Only,[a]who is at the Father's side, has made him known.John 1:18
this is correct
?
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You quoted the verses correctly. Are you asking for some sort of commentary upon them?


Coodles, I will address your post in the other thread. I'm not really sure how we got into talking about the Trinity in a thread about the Qur'an, though I suppose my comments a couple of pages back might have had something to do with that.
 
Grace Seeker said:
You quoted the verses correctly. Are you asking for some sort of commentary upon them?


Coodles, I will address your post in the other thread. I'm not really sure how we got into talking about the Trinity in a thread about the Qur'an, though I suppose my comments a couple of pages back might have had something to do with that.
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so did people not see you Lord Jesus
but anywho next
10 and saw the God of Israel. Under his feet was something like a pavement made of sapphire, [a] clear as the sky itself.exodus 24:10
5 My ears had heard of you
but now my eyes have seen you.job 42:5
1 In the year that King Uzziah died, I saw the Lord seated on a throne, high and exalted, and the train of his robe filled the temple.isaiah 6:1

its 3 against 2 who wins?
 
Umar^111 said:
its 3 against 2 who wins?
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I can help you out with some more such quandries if you like. For instance did or did Moses not see the face of God?

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Exodus 33:21-23
21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."


But now that we have done that, did you have a comment? a question? or seek a response to something in particular?
 
Grace Seeker said:
I can help you out with some more such quandries if you like. For instance did or did Moses not see the face of God?

Exodus 33:11
And the LORD spake unto Moses face to face, as a man speaketh unto his friend. And he turned again into the camp: but his servant Joshua, the son of Nun, a young man, departed not out of the tabernacle.

Exodus 33:21-23
21 Then the LORD said, "There is a place near me where you may stand on a rock. 22 When my glory passes by, I will put you in a cleft in the rock and cover you with my hand until I have passed by. 23 Then I will remove my hand and you will see my back; but my face must not be seen."


But now that we have done that, did you have a comment? a question? or seek a response to something in particular?
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well talk on other thread
 
"Mr Follower's theory : Prophet muhammed (pbuh) original teachings were about the trinity"

I did not say that Mohammad believed in or taught the Trinity. I do believe that Mohammd believed in the Christian concepts that were called the Trinity.

The 3 different manifestations that GOD have used to approach man.

No where in the Quran is an other talked about the way Jesus is. I say whether Mohammad believed in the Trinity or not- He knew that Jesus was:

Kalimatuhu: God's Word 3:45
The word "kalimatuhu" is God's personal word which exists from eternity and is uncreated. Being eternal would also imply that Jesus is both distinct from God,eternally inseperable from God and thus God by nature.

Just as your "eternal" Quran is Allah's word. Jesus is GOD's WORD and He is supported with the Holy/Sanctimonious Soul/Spirit 2:87, 2:253
 
You really need to study a bit more about Christianity. It is not only Paul that mentions the Father, Son and Holy Spirit., but also Matthew and Jesus- This from the Gospel your Quran confirms.

Matthew 28
18And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

20Teaching them to observe all things whatsoever I have commanded you: and, lo, I am with you always, even unto the end of the world. Amen
 
You keep speaking of the 300 AD book, this is the Holy Bible that contains the Gospel and Torah. I have shown that the Gospel confirmed by your Quran was in use by 67AD. We also have a very small portion of original Gospel from 125AD.

Really funny thing by 600AD the Holy Bible was the Book of the Christians the same from 300Ad with the same Gospels from the disciples time.

Mohammad did not say follow only the Gospel and not the other scripture that was the New Testament.

5:47
And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers .
YUSUFALI:And the New Testament's/Bible's people should judge/rule with what God descended in it, and who does not judge/rule with what God descended, so those, they are the debauchers
PICKTHAL: Let the People of the Gospel judge by that which Allah hath revealed therein. Whoso judgeth not by that which Allah hath revealed: such are evil-livers.
SHAKIR: And the followers of the Injeel should have judged by what Allah revealed in it; and whoever did not judge by what Allah revealed, those are they that are the transgressors.

So you see this thread can be closed. I am not allowed to show proof that the Quran has been tampered with, these are on sites that are considered unislamic.

You must search for the truth yourself.
 
Not so fast follower. Answer me this :
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Why is this verse in the RSV version removed, and considered by the authors(who are scholars by the way) as an interpolation?
 
Just as your "eternal" Quran is Allah's word. Jesus is GOD's WORD and He is supported with the Holy/Sanctimonious Soul/Spirit 2:87, 2:253
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How does this in any way even allude to jesus being Son of God or God himself?
 
You (follower) started a similiar thread at another forum and you know you are going to get the same answers "that it can" I think you want to start doubts.
 
Was it me, or are there more like minded people out there?

I am hoping to find a sincere Muslim that will truly study the Quran. One that will look at the history of the Quran, question and test it.

I am not asking you to doubt GOD, I would never do that. Doubt fake history, rewritten history, false prophets, man-made traditons, etc.

The Holy Bible has the proof of fulfilled prophecies and eyewitnesses to the revelation of messages that it is from GOD.

I need proof to believe the same about the Quran. It can't just be one man saying yes I received this message.
 
Follower said:
Was it me, or are there more like minded people out there?
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It is you!
I am hoping to find a sincere Muslim that will truly study the Quran. One that will look at the history of the Quran, question and test it.
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Pretty much every practicing Muslim does that. It is the most read recited and essayed and proved book in the known world!
I am not asking you to doubt GOD, I would never do that. Doubt fake history, rewritten history, false prophets, man-made traditons, etc.
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Yeah, we are all doubting your false prophets and fake man-made traditions.. do see my thread on 'has your God ever dined on swine'

The Holy Bible has the proof of fulfilled prophecies and eyewitnesses to the revelation of messages that it is from GOD.
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so are most of Nostradamus'!

I need proof to believe the same about the Quran. It can't just be one man saying yes I received this message.
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I doubt you need or are looking for proof.. your name says it all--'follower'

all the best
 
Not so fast follower. Answer me this :
19Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:
Why is this verse in the RSV version removed, and considered by the authors(who are scholars by the way) as an interpolation?

I am not sure what the RSV version is. Please supply a link to it. Thanks.

I use Bible Gateway http://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Matthew%2028:19-20;&version=8;

You can choose multiple translations. Some of course are better then others.
 
this is better.. from it we can infer that Jesus was an exclusive God for the Jews, and an ineffectual God since the Jews refused him and he went about after forsaking himself to abrogate most of his commandments by appearing to his nemesis Saul amongst others..

ernational Standard Version (©2008)
But he replied, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel." New American Standard Bible (©1995)
But He answered and said, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
GOD'S WORD® Translation (©1995)
Jesus responded, "I was sent only to the lost sheep of the nation of Israel."
King James Bible
But he answered and said, I am not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American King James Version
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
American Standard Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Bible in Basic English
But he made answer and said, I was sent only to the wandering sheep of the house of Israel.
Douay-Rheims Bible
And he answering, said: I was not sent but to the sheep that are lost of the house of Israel.
Darby Bible Translation
But he answering said, I have not been sent save to the lost sheep of Israel's house.
English Revised Version
But he answered and said, I was not sent but unto the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Webster's Bible Translation
But he answered and said, I am not sent but to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.
Weymouth New Testament
"I have only been sent to the lost sheep of the house of Israel," He replied.
World English Bible
But he answered, "I wasn't sent to anyone but the lost sheep of the house of Israel."
Young's Literal Translation
and he answering said, 'I was not sent except to the lost sheep of the house of Israel.'
 
LOL!! You believe in Nostradamus over the Holy Bible!?! Does Nostradamus name his "god"? How do you know that Nostradamus' "god" is not satan?

Is divination not considered a sin in Islam?

You doubt the Gospel and Torah of the Holy Bible that the Quran confirms!!

Still cutting and jabbing, the fruits of your religion I suppose?
 
Follower said:
LOL!! You believe in Nostradamus over the Holy Bible!?! Does Nostradamus name his "god"? How do you know that Nostradamus' "god" is not satan?

Is divination not considered a sin in Islam?

You doubt the Gospel and Torah of the Holy Bible that the Quran confirms!!

Still cutting and jabbing, the fruits of your religion I suppose?
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the Injeel and Torah we dont doubt at all that they were here once upon a time not the book you read i doubt that 100% that is not the injeel ;) just thought you would want to know
 
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