Child Marriage

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Last night I watched a TV documentary (Unreported World) reporting on child marriage in Nigeria and the devastating effects of pregnancy on girls so young. Many of the young girls die giving birth, most of the babies die and lots of girls end up with a condition called fistula which leaves them incontinent which in turn gets them ostracised by their husbands and local communities.

The Nigerian government has introduced a law (The Child Rights Act in 2003) making marriages to girls under 18 years illegal. All the non-Muslim states have adopted the law and all but one of the Muslim states have not adopted the law and the one state that has adopted the law have changed the line where it says girls must be 18 years old to girls must have reached puberty.

The reason the Muslim states have not adopted the law is because they suggest that Islam permits marriage at any age pointing to the Qur’an and sunnah as evidence. The reporter interviewed an imam who suggested that Islam permits marriage to a girl at any age but the husband should not consummate the marriage until the girl is old enough the safely have children!

I presume all the Muslims on this forum would agree that it is wrong to have sexual relations with a girl below a certain age and doubly wrong to endanger her life by making her pregnant and I presume that all of you would agree to that because you are all ‘educated.’ What I don’t understand is how (being educated) you strive to follow many other many of the other problematic customs of 7C Bedouin because of an hadith or the sunnah and how you reconcile that you should follow this hadith and not that or this sunnah and not that?
 
That's the problem with religion though. It's a snapshot from an ancient culture that becomes locked into place instead of evolving with the rest of the world.

Muhammad had twelve wives, the youngest of which was nine years old. Since Islam says Muhammad was the greatest dude ever, I don't think you're going to find many Muslims who oppose doing what Muhammad did. However, I have seen some Muslims claim (without evidence) that puberty happened sooner back in the 7th century than it does today, so therefore marrying someone as young as Aisha today would be wrong.

I expect we'll see more claims like this from Muslims as Islamic culture continues to evolve. Christians used to think polygamy and marrying young girls was okay—because after all, King David had lots of wives and plenty of them were young. But Christian culture has evolved, and their interpretations of their holy text and heroic figures have evolved to suit.
 
Qingu said:
That's the problem with religion though. It's a snapshot from an ancient culture that becomes locked into place instead of evolving with the rest of the world.

Muhammad had twelve wives, the youngest of which was nine years old. Since Islam says Muhammad was the greatest dude ever, I don't think you're going to find many Muslims who oppose doing what Muhammad did. However, I have seen some Muslims claim (without evidence) that puberty happened sooner back in the 7th century than it does today, so therefore marrying someone as young as Aisha today would be wrong.

I expect we'll see more claims like this from Muslims as Islamic culture continues to evolve. Christians used to think polygamy and marrying young girls was okay—because after all, King David had lots of wives and plenty of them were young. But Christian culture has evolved, and their interpretations of their holy text and heroic figures have evolved to suit.
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First of all Muhammad (saws) had 9 wives i believe. Aisha r.a. consent was given, and she was already engaged to someone else at that time. Her marriage was a divine command and a special case not "sunnah" to follow. No woman provided more knowledge about Islam and details of the Prophet's life than her. The pagan arabs hated Muhamad, even the jews and christians and despite all their hatred and propaganda against him, none of them raise an issue about this marriage. why? marriage of young girls age 9-14 was common in the world at that time, in the east and the west. Motality rate was high and maturity and puberty set in early. Alexanader conquered most of the world at age 16, Muslim boy young at 15-16 was put in charge of a large Muslim army, and other youth achieved just as much. Today you can't even find a 25 or a 30 year old man or woman as mature as those people were.

Why don't you go research on all this and while you are at it, research on puberty striking early in the old days. I"m sure you are capable of doing that. Also, look up early puberty related to hotter climates.

The sunnah of muhammad is a clear example for us to follow. The culture you talk about is not the same. There is no true islamic culture today, every nation's culture is mixed with Islam be it islamic or unislamic.

As for marrying young girls. There are conditions that need to be met, you can't just go marry a girl. She has to reach puberty first to be considered adult in Islam, she has to be mature and of sound mind to know what she is saying, and she has to give her consent. We all know a 10yr today doesn't know what she is doing. and even scholars says its better to marry someone close to your age or with someone with not too much age gap for better compatibility. So islam and muslim scholars have provided guidance. It is the people who have stuck to their own culture. Don't go blaiming islam like rest of the ignorat baffoons out there. If it was Islam and not people's culture then all muslims would be marrying little girls, even here in the west.
 
:salamext:


Related to the original question;

Imam Ibn kathir (May Allah have mercy on him) narrates a hadith in his Al-Bidayah wa-Nihayah:"Imam Bukhari (May Allah have mercy on him) narrates another hadith which he heard from Farwa bin abi al-Mughria who heard from 'Ali bin Masher who heard from Hisham bin 'Urawh who heard from his father who reports from 'Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her), who said: 'When the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) was betrowth to me, I was six years old. Later, when we migrated from Makkah to Medina and satyed at bin harith bin khdhrj's place, I had grown up. My hair had got longer and I had physically matured; however, I still used to play with other girls...I was nine years old at that time."

Source Page 210-211
​
It is possible for young women past puberty to have children;


thaigalhx9-1.jpg



http://i256.photobucket.com/albums/hh162/speed2kx/thaigalhx9.jpg


If someone said that a 9yr old isn't capable of having children or sex; I would quote the following fatwa from Shaykh 'Abdul-'Azîz ibn Ahmad Ad-Durayhim:
As for the possible negative consequences of a man of such a mature age marrying such a young girl, it is patently obvious. The discrepancies in their capabilities, both physically and mentally, could bring about serious differences between the two of them that could lead to the failure of the marriage. This is something that has been seen and is well understood.

Therefore, I would not recommend such a marriage nor would I encourage it.

Moreover, with respect to what we have said about the legal validity of such a marriage, that refers to the validity of the contract itself. As for the effects of the marriage - such as privacy, intimacy and sexual relations - that is another matter entirely. Such things are permitted only if the girl is able to handle such a relationship without any harm whatsoever coming to. Otherwise, it is prohibited. This is because the Prophet (peace be upon him) said: "There shall be no harm nor the causing of harm."

It can also be seen in the very conduct of the Prophet (peace be upon him). He did not consummate his marriage with 'A’ishah for a number of years on account of her young age.
​
And from the fatwâ committee supervised by Shaykh 'Abdul-Wahhâb At-Turayrî we note:
The lawfulness of consummating a marriage at such an age is contingent on the maturity of the girl and that no harm would come to her.
​
So if any harm would come from it, then it is unlawful i.e. harâm.


Q: So why didn't Islam prohibit such practices that are harmful?

Actually, it did. It would be impossible for Islam to have an explicit prohibition on every dangerous behavior from jumping off a scyscraper to smoking, so Islam has provided a single broad injunction to cover all instances of harm:

The Prophet Muhammad (sal Allah alaihi wasalam) said,

لا ضرر ولا ضر​
"There is to be no harming, nor reciprocating of harm." (Musnad Ahmad, authenticated by Al-Albânî)



More;
http://www.islamicboard.com/clarifi...-something-respond-regard-marriage-aisha.html
 
Last edited:
Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

Thinker said:
Last night I watched a TV documentary (Unreported World) reporting on child marriage in Nigeria and the devastating effects of pregnancy on girls so young. Many of the young girls die giving birth, most of the babies die and lots of girls end up with a condition called fistula which leaves them incontinent which in turn gets them ostracised by their husbands and local communities.

The Nigerian government has introduced a law (The Child Rights Act in 2003) making marriages to girls under 18 years illegal. All the non-Muslim states have adopted the law and all but one of the Muslim states have not adopted the law and the one state that has adopted the law have changed the line where it says girls must be 18 years old to girls must have reached puberty.

The reason the Muslim states have not adopted the law is because they suggest that Islam permits marriage at any age pointing to the Qur’an and sunnah as evidence. The reporter interviewed an imam who suggested that Islam permits marriage to a girl at any age but the husband should not consummate the marriage until the girl is old enough the safely have children!

...
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I do not understand what it is tha you find so objectionable. The Law or the Abuse of it?

In the Civilised world if I had a handicapped woman who was over 18, I had sexual intercourse with her, I would not have broken a law, but it would still be wrong, depending on her handicap.

What we are dealing with here is not the AGE but the ability to provide consent and the avoidance of harm. So in reality this age limit, is not there because at 18 some magic happens, otherwise all the countries like United Kingdom, USA, etc would have the same age.

Rather, the age is a way through which the countries try to ensure the mental and physical capability of the individuals concerned. It's not the best way! Islam may have a different, better way. Don't judge this way due to the abuse of some individuals who do not practice it.

Regards,

al-Habeshi
 
This thread is going way off topic!
Perhaps mods can clear it up a bit?
 
:sl: Ver interesting to read your posts guys, some serious, some just a joke and others frustating!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Naturally you have managed to go off the topic. I watched the programme and as a mother of a fourteen year old mother i could not imagine putting my daughter through any such thing. I love and respect my religion but as one of you have said times have changed...............

How many of you watched the programme? And how many of you have daughters/sisters of this age. Put yourself in this position and ask yourselves would you allow it to happen to one of your own. I doubt it very much!!!

Also Brother Talha. Islam allows more than one wife for men to feed their sexual desires............. this however does not mean that they should take that one thing and abuse it. Polygamy in the times of our Prophets was very different, to the way polygamy is used today.

Allah sees and hears all.....................Ameen.:w::zip:
 
Civilsed said:
Asalam Alaykum,

i would like to share a few videos that they help people understand

Culture vs Islam
http://theislamicummah.ning.com/video/prophet-mohammed-phub-aisha
http://theislamicummah.ning.com/video/prophet-mohammed-phub-aisha-1 Part 2
Click to expand...

Thanks, I’ve watch the videos. The narrator suggests that (historically) puberty is the identifier for point in the development of a girl which is her time to marry and have children.

I may be wrong but I believe that puberty is a process that commences develops and ends. I believe it starts earlier in some and later in others. I believe the progresses quicker in some and slower in others. I have no medical qualifications but I suspect that the earliest time that it is safe for a girl to have a baby is at the conclusion of the metamorphic development that is puberty not the start of the process. The question is how does a civilised society, seeking to protect its children, identify that point?
 
It is a fact that pregnancy and childbirth in a girl whose body has not fully developed massively increases her chances of death or permanent physical and psychological damage.

I presume that any ‘civilised’ society puts the protection and well being of their children high on their list of priorities and would implement measures to protect its children. The question is how do we identify when a girl has the physical and mental capacity to safely have a baby? Do we look to medical science for an answer or do we look at the Qur’an and the sunnah for the answer. The Nigerian Government chose medical science; the Muslim states in the north chose the Qur’an! I previously started a thread on this site suggesting that the Qur’an does not and should not have the answer to everything and this, I suggest, is an example of the point I was trying to make.
 
Thinker said:
..The question is how do we identify when a girl has the physical and mental capacity to safely have a baby? Do we look to medical science for an answer or do we look at the Qur’an and the sunnah for the answer...
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We use medical science. But even if we were to go by Qur'an and Hadith, none of it would contradict medical science and vice versa.


..I previously started a thread on this site suggesting that the Qur’an does not and should not have the answer to everything and this, I suggest, is an example of the point I was trying to make.
Click to expand...

You are correct; the Qur'an doesn't provide EVERY answer to EVERYTHING and it never claimed to do that (that wasn't its purpose as a Holy book). It provides a lot of answers to a lot of things but it leaves plenty of room for you to make the connections and to expand on those teachings. The hadith/sunnah aid this by giving real examples from the Prophet.
 
Im with Zahida on this one Im afraid, I would never or could never putting my girls or my son through that, i find it truely disturbing, I think kids grow up to fast these days anyway, they should be taught to enjoy their childhood for as long as possible, i was a young mother, i was jst 17 when we had the twins, and although i would never change them for the world, (maybe their eating habits!) I would have been quite happy to wait another couple of years to have them....... from having my twins so young i have a crumbling pelvis, meaning it probably would be safe for me to have anymore kids, which is fine by me now, 3 is quite enough but for a 9 year old to have a child and the orrifying possiblities of what could happen to her body afterwards is heartbreaking....... keep the children as children and the adults as adults, dont shift responsibilitys!
 
Is everyone forgetting people back then had much shorter life spans?

They didnt exactly have the lifespan to take it easy and wait till they were 22 or 25 to get married.

For pete's sake people, they had an average lifespan of 50 years or so. Disease, famine, war, and poverty were extremely common.

Today's society lets us wait longer because we CAN, they COULDNT!
 
Thinker said:
It is a fact that pregnancy and childbirth in a girl whose body has not fully developed massively increases her chances of death or permanent physical and psychological damage.

I presume that any ‘civilised’ society puts the protection and well being of their children high on their list of priorities and would implement measures to protect its children. The question is how do we identify when a girl has the physical and mental capacity to safely have a baby? Do we look to medical science for an answer or do we look at the Qur’an and the sunnah for the answer. The Nigerian Government chose medical science; the Muslim states in the north chose the Qur’an! I previously started a thread on this site suggesting that the Qur’an does not and should not have the answer to everything and this, I suggest, is an example of the point I was trying to make.
Click to expand...

See my post, the people had shorter lifespans back then. Keep talking about either choosing science or the Quran, you will get nowhere. Islam says it is not illegal to marry at a young age as long as no harm is incurred. Now, if a couple has the ability to wait, they should not force it upon the girl. If science shows that it is harmful, and a couple has the ability to wait, they should wait. Duh??

You seem to be under the impression that the Islam mandates young marriage which is far from the case. It simple does not outlaw it. It is a necessary part of life for some cultures who have no other choice.

In addition to this, I didnt see a single point you made on the other thread that showed that Islam did not have all the answers. It also looked like you completely ignored the hadith I provided in the thread too.

Once when the Prophet was deputing his companion Mu`adh to Yemen, he asked the latter,"What will you do if you have to decide a matter faced by you?" He replied, "I will decide it according to the Book of Allah." The Prophet further asked, "If you do not find anything about it in the Book of Allah, then what?" He answered, "In that case I’ll decide according to the Sunnah of the Prophet of Allah." At this the Prophet asked, "If you do not find anything in the Sunnah of the Prophet?" He said, "I’ll decide it with my own opinion (i.e. apply the reasoning power) and leave no stone unturned." Hearing this, the Prophet applauded, "Praise be to Allah who guided the apostle of the Prophet the methodology which the Prophet himself likes." (Reported by Al-Bukhari)
 
Qingu said:
That's the problem with religion though. It's a snapshot from an ancient culture that becomes locked into place instead of evolving with the rest of the world.

Muhammad had twelve wives, the youngest of which was nine years old. Since Islam says Muhammad was the greatest dude ever, I don't think you're going to find many Muslims who oppose doing what Muhammad did. However, I have seen some Muslims claim (without evidence) that puberty happened sooner back in the 7th century than it does today, so therefore marrying someone as young as Aisha today would be wrong.

I expect we'll see more claims like this from Muslims as Islamic culture continues to evolve. Christians used to think polygamy and marrying young girls was okay—because after all, King David had lots of wives and plenty of them were young. But Christian culture has evolved, and their interpretations of their holy text and heroic figures have evolved to suit.
Click to expand...

Okay firstly the Lord of the worlds said that Prophet Muhammad Alayhis-Salaatu Was Salaam was the best example so their for he is. Another thing is that back thn it was not uncommon for young girls to get married that was there culture, if you would look back and study history would prove it. That may also be the reason why there was very rare to see illegitimate children.
 
And age has nothing to do with anything when someone should/ could have chidren some 30 year old sarent ready for that while some 16 year olds are.
 
Thinker said:
Last night I watched a TV documentary (Unreported World) reporting on child marriage in Nigeria and the devastating effects of pregnancy on girls so young. Many of the young girls die giving birth, most of the babies die and lots of girls end up with a condition called fistula which leaves them incontinent which in turn gets them ostracised by their husbands and local communities.

The Nigerian government has introduced a law (The Child Rights Act in 2003) making marriages to girls under 18 years illegal. All the non-Muslim states have adopted the law and all but one of the Muslim states have not adopted the law and the one state that has adopted the law have changed the line where it says girls must be 18 years old to girls must have reached puberty.

The reason the Muslim states have not adopted the law is because they suggest that Islam permits marriage at any age pointing to the Qur’an and sunnah as evidence. The reporter interviewed an imam who suggested that Islam permits marriage to a girl at any age but the husband should not consummate the marriage until the girl is old enough the safely have children!

I presume all the Muslims on this forum would agree that it is wrong to have sexual relations with a girl below a certain age and doubly wrong to endanger her life by making her pregnant and I presume that all of you would agree to that because you are all ‘educated.’ What I don’t understand is how (being educated) you strive to follow many other many of the other problematic customs of 7C Bedouin because of an hadith or the sunnah and how you reconcile that you should follow this hadith and not that or this sunnah and not that?
Click to expand...

There are many aspects of this that are not understood by the non-Muslim world for the most part. Like wise those of us who are Muslim do not always understand non-Muslim concepts.

One big difference is in the concept of marriage. Our Nikkah is quite different from the non-Muslim concept of marriage. Marriage to us is not a sacrament or a religious ritual, it is a legal binding contract. Part of this contract does entail the right of sexual relationships, but the Nikkah is still valid if there is no physical consummation until after both parties have reached full maturity. That does happen in the case of young girls and it is not uncommon for the girl to live at home with her parents until she is mature. During this time an annulment can be granted the girl if she decides she does not love her husband before the Nikkah is consummated.

The fact that a couple is married under Nikkah does not always mean there will be physical relationships until after the girl is mature. In fact a man is forbidden to do anything that would cause his wife physical harm.

Because of the nature of the Nikkah, it is impossible to state a specific age at which it can be permitted.
 

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