Danes arrest three in plot to kill Mohammed cartoonist

[Cognescenti]

If liberty was a unifying and communal idea, you would not have had a danish person in those three who plotted to kill the cartoonist. Your "liberty" is actually causing disharmony and disunity amongst people, so then would you stand up for any cause which causes disharmony and disunity between people?

Most Western nations do tolerate some degree of "disharmony" for the sake of liberty. It is almost a given. One can't have complete unity and divergent opinion at the same time....anywhere. There will always be those who disagree. The divergent voices can either be tolerated (as they usually are in the West) or they can stilled by communal pressure, threat of imprsionment or death. I like the Western approach.

The fact that one of the suspects is a Danish citizen and would devote more than two neurons to the iditoic notion of murdering some 73 year old because an equally idiotic cartoon only means he has not been acculturated into Danish society.

 

[krypton6]

I guess religious muslims shouldn't have coe at the first place as they are bound to have problems with adapting to and living in the danish society... Westerners cannot immigrate into a muslim country and expect the socitey to fully accept their lifestyle and let them countinue with their western lives, they have to adapt, at least in public, and so should muslims.

The "religious" muslims had to flee in order to give their children a better life. They had to flee because of the western colonization!

Hijab, halal meat etc are not a problem. It's the protets that cause trouble. and threats, hate speech towards certain groups of people, violence towards apostates - general nonacceptance of certain rights and liberties that are taken for granted in the west.

Believe it or not, Hijab, Halal meat and such are the main "problems"!

The protests (that btw do not cause any trouble), the threats and the hate speechs towards certain groups of people (that btw apparently wish to be threaten and mentioned in hate speecs), are the methods that muslims use when what they love the most is insulted. If noone insults their religion and prophet, muslims will not protest, threat or make any hate speeches.
When a government accepts the insulting of someones religion and ignores the protests, the next step will be taken and people will start threatening, and making the famous hate speechs, and you blaim them for that?

The west are the ones lighting up these conflicts all the time and when justice is not brought to the case you might have to bring justice to it yourself..

 

[The_Prince]

So, just to clarify, according to you all women in the West are fornicating prostitutes.

Got it. Buy the way, that would be considered an insult.

Thanks.

See no violence.

lol did i say that? did i make the claim? i didnt even HINT at that!

all i stated is that in the west prostitution is legal, so is fornication, and now fornication isnt seen as something bad and so on, hence calling someone a fornicator cant really be deemed as an insult, just a false claim.

now where did i call women of the west prostitutes and fornicators? i said something COMPLETLY different sheesh

 

[Suomipoika]

I would take law into my own hands and deal with the printer myself

That really says everything.

Rising above a taunt is not a benefit of freedom of speech. It is a reaction. A benefit would be say a decrease in injustice. Since, however, you yourself posted that many danish people have been slandered as a result of the cartoons being published, it is quite clear that that particular act of freedom of speech did not benefit in anyway - the only ones who have benefited psychosocially at least, are those who shout out paki or various other racist remarks, because now they have a get-out card: ''freedom of speech''.
Pssha, freedom to act like tosser more like.

Hahaha there's some irony!

Without the taunts caused by this act protected by freedom of speech, there would be no benefits of the reaction. :sunny:

Personally I see it as positive result and this all is just kind of growth pain of our societies, once people grow thicker skin and small papers of which no one has heard of will stay unheard and badly drawn cartoons get no violent reaction and publicity, apart from small print angry condemnation on page 52 on readers letters page and condemning discussion. That is ofcourse if, your sentiment spreads much wider.

Instead of trying to work this out with Muslims to prevent such behavior they are printing some of the cartoons again!

Like it or not, people are not going to change their rules according to what is taboo to you. Even tho the rules differ from country to country, all other groups in our society have to suffer and deal with (what they consider) insults and offensive material, from mainstream political parties and figures ("Bush is monkey") to minority groups like gay people ("being homosexual is sickness or sin"), to everything. Muslims and islam should be no exception. Like everybody else, muslims just have to find a peaceful way to deal with it, if not... then well, dont be surpriced of our negative reaction.

 

[snakelegs]

how many times will the trap be baited?
how many times will somebody fall in?

 

[Roasted Cashew]

lol did i say that? did i make the claim? i didnt even HINT at that!

all i stated is that in the west prostitution is legal, so is fornication, and now fornication isnt seen as something bad and so on, hence calling someone a fornicator cant really be deemed as an insult, just a false claim.

now where did i call women of the west prostitutes and fornicators? i said something COMPLETLY different sheesh

Some people like to reach to conclusions they wished were true. I truly understood your point. Since people in the west don't seem to find anything wrong with prostitutes and fornicators and both are in fact legal! How would calling someone that be an insult? It's just that it would be wrong but not so much of an insult. Though individual perceptions might be different since some people in the west are decent and conservative.

 

[barney]

God created the universe, can crush mountains with less than a thought, can create infinity, can cause the sun to spin the other way or if he wanted to to vanish into oblivion. He is the very epitomy of omnipotence and nothing is impossible for him.

Why would he need three morons to go and kill someone who mocked him? Or his messenger?
When the children said to Elijah "Go up, thou bald head" did he not send bears to kill 43 of them?, When the Egyptians diddnt heed him, diddnt he kill all their firstborn? When Luts wife disobayed him, diddnt he turn her into Sodium Carbonate? When the entire world sinned, diddnt he kill everything on its surface except Nuah?

God, if you beleive your scripture, can top those he deems fit for topping with startling efficency. Put the knives and masks down please.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

It's shocking to see how such a simple thing as this can bring out the worst in people.

A reminder, for those who may need it:

1. Let us try not to imagine that large groups of people are all the same, or have the same opinions.

2. Let us try not to wish violence upon anyone.

If we do either of those two things, we demean ourselves.

I hope we can all agree about that.

Peace

 

[ahsan28]

Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.

 

[barney]

Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.

It is impossible to compel someone into violence. Violence is a choice. Always a choice.

 

[abdullah_001]

Most Western nations do tolerate some degree of "disharmony" for the sake of liberty. It is almost a given. One can't have complete unity and divergent opinion at the same time....anywhere. There will always be those who disagree. The divergent voices can either be tolerated (as they usually are in the West) or they can stilled by communal pressure, threat of imprsionment or death. I like the Western approach.

The fact that one of the suspects is a Danish citizen and would devote more than two neurons to the iditoic notion of murdering some 73 year old because an equally idiotic cartoon only means he has not been acculturated into Danish society.

Subhan Allah, Allah (swt) has blessed the Muslim ummah. Abu Bakr As-Siddique (ra) and Umar bin Al-Khattan (ra) almost always had opposing opinions and yet there was unity amongst them. Just take a look at Ka'ba, which is the epitome of unity that disregards almost all labels , be it race, color or nationality. Disagreements do not equal disharmony, and the Western culture (according to you) should learn from the companions of the Prophet (saw) who even in their disagreements never insulted each other. Subhan Allah.

 

[Trumble]

Indulging in action-reaction game should not be a recommended course as it is quite possible that this is yet another attempt to provoke Muslims, aimed at compeling them to indulge into aggression and violence, bringing disrepute to Islam as a religion. I think OIC should take up the case with United Nations and ensure that the concerned Govt takes appropriate measures immediately.

It is not an attempt to 'provoke' anybody, it is a demonstration by journalists that that they intend to retain editorial control themselves rather than surrender it to the hands those making death threats and plotting to kill one of their peers. As Barney says, there is no "compulsion" to violence here. "Offence" harms nobody directly beyond a temporary rise in blood pressure, and if those claiming to be "offended" had not behaved like five year olds nobody would even have seen the cartoons outside the circulation of a couple of small newspapers in Denmark. The cartoons are offensive, but the point could have been quietly and that would be the last we ever heard of it - or saw of the cartoons.

To those of you who responded to the poll by saying violence is a suitable response, sorry, but I have to say this. GROW UP !! :grumbling

 

[krypton6]

Why would he need three morons to go and kill someone who mocked his messenger?

Because the mocking hurted and is hurting more than a billion muslims and created a new serious conflict between the east and the west. I couldnt agree more with the three "morons".

 

[Cognescenti]

Subhan Allah, Allah (swt) has blessed the Muslim ummah. Abu Bakr As-Siddique (ra) and Umar bin Al-Khattan (ra) almost always had opposing opinions and yet there was unity amongst them. Just take a look at Ka'ba, which is the epitome of unity that disregards almost all labels , be it race, color or nationality. Disagreements do not equal disharmony, and the Western culture (according to you) should learn from the companions of the Prophet (saw) who even in their disagreements never insulted each other. Subhan Allah.

abdullah;

I will allow those probably were the teachings of the Prophet. How many Muslims actually follow those teachings?

Muslims on this board routinely insult Jews and Christians and even Sikhs and. The polytheists and atheists are in big trouble. Do I need to tell you what kind
of "unity" the President of the US gets around here? Or the US in general? You should have heard some of the stuff posted by Muslims about the Sudanese during the tedy bear ting.

If you want to get a thread closed own real quick just start a discussion about the Shia and you will have a grand old time.

I am talking about political speech. It is still impolite in the West to approach a heavy person on the street and call them fat.

 

[Cognescenti]

Because the mocking hurted and is hurting more than a billion muslims and created a new serious conflict between the east and the west. I couldnt agree more with the three "morons".

There you have it. A new member of the Three Stooges. Shemp to replace Curley.

 

[Cognescenti]

It is not an attempt to 'provoke' anybody, it is a demonstration by journalists that that they intend to retain editorial control themselves rather than surrender it to the hands those making death threats and plotting to kill one of their peers. As Barney says, there is no "compulsion" to violence here. "Offence" harms nobody directly beyond a temporary rise in blood pressure, and if those claiming to be "offended" had not behaved like five year olds nobody would even have seen the cartoons outside the circulation of a couple of small newspapers in Denmark. The cartoons are offensive, but the point could have been quietly and that would be the last we ever heard of it - or saw of the cartoons.

To those of you who responded to the poll by saying violence is a suitable response, sorry, but I have to say this. GROW UP !! :grumbling

I completely agree. Teens making a video of themselves drawing pictures of Allah ...that was intentionally provocative (because teens tend to have that macho thing going).

Sedate, responsible, senior, well-travelled and well-educated editors of respected newspapers electing to republish the cartoons is not intentionally provocative. They are trying to tell you guys there is a line you may not cross without consequences. That so many fail to understand this does not bode well for the acceptance of Muslims in Europe.

The notion that European governments need to intervene to suppress the press is equally idiotic.

 

[------]

:salamext:

I voted for the first option.

 

[crayon]

I will allow those probably were the teachings of the Prophet. How many Muslims actually follow those teachings?

There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. Did we get 1.3 billion people burning flags, bombing embassies, plotting to kill cartoonists? No. Just because a few ignorant people do something stupid, they are not a proper representation of the group of people they belong to.

 

[truemuslim]

^ yep...

the people who dont kno islam correctly go do that stuff, so the other nonmuslims make it ALL muslims are like that! wth?!

 

[Cognescenti]

There are 1.3 billion muslims in the world. Did we get 1.3 billion people burning flags, bombing embassies, plotting to kill cartoonists? No. Just because a few ignorant people do something stupid, they are not a proper representation of the group of people they belong to.

I made no such generalization. Let's not pretend, however, that a mere handful of Muslims with poor reading skills are the problem.

There are several on this forum who have voiced support for violence. They are still posting. Are they not ignorant, then?