Did Jesus die and rise from the dead?

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i think is what is confusing the brother. bcoz Islam is unique in the sense it does not incorporate any paganism, that is why the bro find it hard to believe that other elements would be accpeted by christians. this is a major sin in Islam and that is why its so hard to accept that Christians will alow other pagan ritiuals to be mixed in.

Did not Muhammed incorporate the Kaba into Islam? The fact that Christians didn't eradicate the social custom of colored eggs and rabbits to celebrate the spring, although worship of pagan gods was denied, doesn't mean these customs were adopted as a Christian ritual, they are mainly a secular alternative to the Christian celebration. Do you think the kids who hunt the eggs and the parents who hide them are worshipping a pagan Anglo-Saxon goddess? Of course not. Like Santa Clause, these social customs have become a secular addition to a religious holiday.
 
The truth is both faiths cannot coexist!

Could you live next to a christain. I could live next to a muslem and treat him like I would any body else. He is equal in my eyes to me. Religions can co-exist. Maybe our leaders cant, buth I think the regular guy on the street can.

I pray to the God of Jesus Christ that all Moslems find the God of Mohamed (Peace Upon Him). There is only one God.

Fundamentalist: In The USA we use this term for people that take their religious text literally. They tend to be closed minded people that think their religion is the only one and all others are wrong. In the USA we deal with Christians Fundamentalist that say if you don’t believe in Jesus you can not be saved. This kind of thinking makes us rational people nervous because we see other religions around the world so a logical question becomes “Who is Right?” I as a Christian pray that I carry out Gods will and for others to do also. Gods will is independent of what rituals you follow. Some one has to be right. Muslems and christains may both be wrong. This you can not dispute.

Fundamentalist do not believe this; and that’s when the words like “persecution of others for self gain using religion” comes to mind. We Christians (Jews and Muslems also)have done it before and we do not want to do it again. We also do not want any other people to do it. I also, as a Christian, pray that all Moslems find what they are looking for and if it threw the teachings of Mohamed (Peace be upon him) and it spreads Love, reconciliation, healing, and peace I am all for it.

Fundamentalist want you act the way that they do. If you don’t … you are wrong. Could you imagine if an Eskimo (people that live in the artic) made a person from the desert to dress like the person from the artic? This kind of thinking is a fundamentalist. I don’t ask for much but I pray that God opens up our hearts and minds. I can treat people with respect and dignity and only hope others do too.
 
Fundamentalist want you act the way that they do. If you don’t … you are wrong. Could you imagine if an Eskimo (people that live in the artic) made a person from the desert to dress like the person from the artic? This kind of thinking is a fundamentalist. I don’t ask for much but I pray that God opens up our hearts and minds. I can treat people with respect and dignity and only hope others do too.

I like those words. You are right, we can not make people live as us. There comes a point where it needs to be recognized that a religious debate has reached the point where it is obvious that it has come to an impasse.

Going beyond that point all that remains is anger and hurt feelings. I know for myself I said a few statements, that did not have to be said and I believe at least one non-Muslim in this debate has also done the same.

My conclusion is that the only thing that will come from this thread is a valid demonstration that we are fools for even arguing about it.

I will post no further responses on this thread. If I see that all that occurs is more arguments, I will consider the thread as being a disruptive factor and of no benefit.
 
So am I to understand that devotion to God which leads to ones death is a shame? Why do you think God would permit killing of many of the prophets and protect Jesus? Was He special? If so how?


Good question
 
Did not Muhammed incorporate the Kaba into Islam? The fact that Christians didn't eradicate the social custom of colored eggs and rabbits to celebrate the spring, although worship of pagan gods was denied, doesn't mean these customs were adopted as a Christian ritual, they are mainly a secular alternative to the Christian celebration. Do you think the kids who hunt the eggs and the parents who hide them are worshipping a pagan Anglo-Saxon goddess? Of course not. Like Santa Clause, these social customs have become a secular addition to a religious holiday.

The reason that Muhammed (peace be upon him) incorporated the Khabba into Islam is bcoz it was part of our religion already tacing back to when it was first build by Abreham (peace be upon him). You see we see this as a logical progression and succession of all the phrophets messages and works rigt back to Adam. Paganism does not have no roots back to any of the phrophets and it certainly does not have any roots to Isa 9peace be upon him).
 
The reason that Muhammed (peace be upon him) incorporated the Khabba into Islam is bcoz it was part of our religion already tacing back to when it was first build by Abreham (peace be upon him). You see we see this as a logical progression and succession of all the phrophets messages and works rigt back to Adam. Paganism does not have no roots back to any of the phrophets and it certainly does not have any roots to Isa 9peace be upon him).

Was not the Kaba during the time of Mohammed, before the Qu'ran, a place of worship for pagan gods? Regardless of who Islam insists built it, which would be a debate onto itself, does this not represent that some cultural norms will be incorporated into new faiths?
 
Could you live next to a christain. I could live next to a muslem and treat him like I would any body else. He is equal in my eyes to me. Religions can co-exist. Maybe our leaders cant, buth I think the regular guy on the street can.

I pray to the God of Jesus Christ that all Moslems find the God of Mohamed (Peace Upon Him). There is only one God.

Fundamentalist: In The USA we use this term for people that take their religious text literally. They tend to be closed minded people that think their religion is the only one and all others are wrong. In the USA we deal with Christians Fundamentalist that say if you don’t believe in Jesus you can not be saved. This kind of thinking makes us rational people nervous because we see other religions around the world so a logical question becomes “Who is Right?” I as a Christian pray that I carry out Gods will and for others to do also. Gods will is independent of what rituals you follow. Some one has to be right. Muslems and christains may both be wrong. This you can not dispute.

Fundamentalist do not believe this; and that’s when the words like “persecution of others for self gain using religion” comes to mind. We Christians (Jews and Muslems also)have done it before and we do not want to do it again. We also do not want any other people to do it. I also, as a Christian, pray that all Moslems find what they are looking for and if it threw the teachings of Mohamed (Peace be upon him) and it spreads Love, reconciliation, healing, and peace I am all for it.

Fundamentalist want you act the way that they do. If you don’t … you are wrong. Could you imagine if an Eskimo (people that live in the artic) made a person from the desert to dress like the person from the artic? This kind of thinking is a fundamentalist. I don’t ask for much but I pray that God opens up our hearts and minds. I can treat people with respect and dignity and only hope others do too.


Welcome to this Islamic forum and to the thread I posted. First of all, this post has been active for a pretty long time before you entered and is coming to its end. I can see that from your profile that you have a tendency to contradict yourself. You do not want to disclose that your way of life is a Christian and yet you have mentioned it several times on this thread. Any devote Christian or Muslim can tell you that these two great religions clash and cannot and never will be able to coexist, because they are emphatically diametrically opposed or mutually exclusive. However, that doesn't mean we can't love and respect one another. I could tell from your writings that you either lack knowledge of Scripture or you are a nominal Christian. In other words, you are not rooted and grounded in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is Christians like you that can easily end up being prey to Mormons, Jehova Witnesses or end up in some eastern religion or even becoming a Muslim. When someone knows the Lord, it shows in his or her writing. You say that Muslims and Christians could both be wrong and that can't be disputed. Again, I tell you Muslims will tell you are wrong and so will I. You appear to be double minded through out all your writing and I cannot identify with your type of Christianity. I would rather be a Muslim than follow your example of Christianity. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways and let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord (so much for your prayers), but there is good news Jesus loves you very much and He wants you to study His word so that you could be a workman who needs not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. Pray that God helps us both in those areas. By the way, the Inuit Indians don’t like to be called Eskimos; furthermore, your illustration does not apply to this situation.
 
The key is the willingness to agree to disagree with mutual dignity and tolerance. Peace does not require agreement of beliefs. But, it does require a desire not to infringe upon another person's beliefs without just cause.

Yes, we do both believe that the other person is in gross error and is at high risk of facing hellfire. The fact is both of our scriptures exclude the other. Although I believe you are in very grave error, I do respect your sincerity and believe your intentions are good. Like you I also become angered and frustrated. It is my desire that you would cast aside your errors and accept the truth. But, that is only my desires and I have no power to make you be what you have no desire to be. Like you I also believe I have found a Pearl of Great Price. Like you I also will not keep my mouth shut. However, I do accept that all that will be is the will of Allah(swt) and if a person chooses to truly be a servant of Allah(swt) that can only be his choice between him and Allah(swt)

I too have a strong need to Share the Gospel. However the Gospel as it was revealed to Isa(as) as the Injil no longer exists except in small scattered fragments and mixed with fallacies.



We honor Isa(as) as a much beloved Prophet. we do not honor the rest said about Him, because Isa(as) never said those things. Those are words from a book that we know that has been corrupted and is full of fallacies.

The simple fact is we believe the Qur'an is the true word of Allah(swt) and that the Bible is from other sources. We believe that any preachings that try to lead us from the Qur'an are the path to Hellfire if we follow them.

i know that you feel you are doing your best to spread the truth and that you sincerily believe what you say.

But, I believe you need to wake up cast away the fallacies and become a true servant of Allah(swt). It is far better to be a slave of Allah(swt) than to become a master of deceit.

As Muslims we do firmly believe that any who follow your words will be cast out as an unbeliever and Isa(as) will testify against them on judgement day and they shall be cast into the hellfire.

I know those are offensive words to a Christian and it is not my desire to offend you or anyone as a person. But, as Muslims that is what we genuinely know and we know that if we were to accept the myth you are attempting to spread we will be in hellfire.

OK, I hear you loud and clear. First of all, that question wasn't directed at you or any Muslim, (look where it was posted) and even if it were, it isn't or wasn't an attack on any one individuals character because of their religious belief. I didn’t even go so far as to say you are in grave error. Yes, these discussions do get a little heated, but as you said in a previous thread, that is to be expected. I fail to see the crime you a accusing me of. I like to call things the way I see them. I don't want to beat around the bush. I am not offended and hurt when someone cuts down my faith directly or indirectly. I might get hurt if my character is attacked, but am use to it and can get over it. Are you accusing me of grave errors, because I believe that Jesus said those things? Or are you offended that I am sharing what the Bible says Jesus said?
 
By the way, thanks for sending me the 5 pillars. it was interesting and educational. I think I was misunderstood I will quote what I said: "If we can't change anyone's mind about what the truth is, then what good does it do to concentrate on what we have in common? With man it is impossible, but with God all things are possible." Someone said, that we can't change anyones mind about what truth is; so, my questions was just to show that I don't believe that is trure. That is all, and I aggree that we can agree to disagree. You are loved and respected.
 
I am not sure was it this post you deleted or another. I don't understand why. You said, "The key is the willingness to agree to disagree with mutual dignity and tolerance. Peace does not require agreement of beliefs. But, it does require a desire not to infringe upon another person's beliefs without just cause." It is impossible for something like this to happen nearly very post infringes on the other in one form or another. Some are subtle and some are direct. This is to be expected. We just need to have respect and do it with dignity. I don't think we have done so badly. I don't see anything that has gotten too carried away for you to delete thsi post, but you are the Mod. and that is your call.
 
Was not the Kaba during the time of Mohammed, before the Qu'ran, a place of worship for pagan gods? Regardless of who Islam insists built it, which would be a debate onto itself, does this not represent that some cultural norms will be incorporated into new faiths?

Yes but the origins of the Khabba and the costumes are from the Phrophet Abreham, so no thier are no pagan elements to it. Thier was before Islam came to Arabi, this is because the Arabians at that time where stuck in idolotery. Muhammed (peace be upon him) came and removed any confusion that existed before on who to worship and how to worship one God.
 
Welcome to this Islamic forum and to the thread I posted. First of all, this post has been active for a pretty long time before you entered and is coming to its end. I can see that from your profile that you have a tendency to contradict yourself. You do not want to disclose that your way of life is a Christian and yet you have mentioned it several times on this thread. Any devote Christian or Muslim can tell you that these two great religions clash and cannot and never will be able to coexist, because they are emphatically diametrically opposed or mutually exclusive. However, that doesn't mean we can't love and respect one another. I could tell from your writings that you either lack knowledge of Scripture or you are a nominal Christian. In other words, you are not rooted and grounded in the knowledge of Jesus Christ. It is Christians like you that can easily end up being prey to Mormons, Jehova Witnesses or end up in some eastern religion or even becoming a Muslim. When someone knows the Lord, it shows in his or her writing. You say that Muslims and Christians could both be wrong and that can't be disputed. Again, I tell you Muslims will tell you are wrong and so will I. You appear to be double minded through out all your writing and I cannot identify with your type of Christianity. I would rather be a Muslim than follow your example of Christianity. A double minded man is unstable in all his ways and let not that man think that he shall receive anything of the Lord (so much for your prayers), but there is good news Jesus loves you very much and He wants you to study His word so that you could be a workman who needs not be ashamed rightly dividing the word of truth. Pray that God helps us both in those areas. By the way, the Inuit Indians don’t like to be called Eskimos; furthermore, your illustration does not apply to this situation.


Dude, I am in no way here to offened.

Why do you miss quote me?
Why change what I said?

I didnt say some of things you said. And please ... if you attack and post all of my post ... do not change what was in the quotes this time.

I really should not reply but since you took time to read my post, I thank you.

The fearful man attacks.

Thanks again
AB517
 
Dude, I am in no way here to offened.

Why do you miss quote me?
Why change what I said?

I didnt say some of things you said. And please ... if you attack and post all of my post ... do not change what was in the quotes this time.

I really should not reply but since you took time to read my post, I thank you.

The fearful man attacks.

Thanks again
AB517

That is good that you are not offended. It was not my intention to offend you or to misquote you for that matter. Can you please show me where I have misquoted you, so I can repudiate my statement?
Thanks,
You are loved
 
That is good that you are not offended. It was not my intention to offend you or to misquote you for that matter. Can you please show me where I have misquoted you, so I can repudiate my statement?
Thanks,
You are loved


Hey

After rereading you got it ... This is over.
I have much to learn, I know that.

Thank You
 
Was not the Kaba during the time of Mohammed, before the Qu'ran, a place of worship for pagan gods? Regardless of who Islam insists built it, which would be a debate onto itself, does this not represent that some cultural norms will be incorporated into new faiths?


The Ka'aba was built by Prophet Abraham, if you look in the bible you'll see that it was the place where Prophet Abraham left his wife Hagar in the desert, this would be the place where Makkah would begin. They found the well of zamzam there, and some arabs from Yemen settled there. When Prophet Ishmael grew up - he built the Ka'aba with his father Abraham as a house of worship.

Ishmael followed the religion of his father, Abraham. He grew up, got married and for many centuries the arabs worshipped the God of Abraham, and followed the religion of Abraham.


However, centuries passed by - a man from among the arabs [his name: Amr bin 'Amir bin Luhai Al-Khuzai] went to Greater Syria, and saw these people worshipping stone idols. He asked them why they did this, and they said that if they invoked them - they would recieve rain and have offspring etc. He brought these stone idols towards the Ka'aba and started associating these idols as 'intermediaries' between them and God. This would be the first form of idol worship among the arabs. This is when they first strayed away from the religion of Prophet Abraham.


Many centuries passed and Prophets were sent among the Children of Isra'eel within this time period. Prophet Abraham also followed Islaam since Islaam means submission to God. And that's exactly what Prophet Abraham did. He submitted to the will of God. The remenants of Prophet Abraham's religion still existed among the arabs, thats why they would still perform the pilgrimage of Hajj, they would give money to the poor, they would do many religious acts like Prophet Abraham - however, they would associate partners with God in worship, which is the total opposite of what Prophet Abraham called to.


At the time when Muhammad (peace be upon him) came, there were 360 idols surrounding the Ka'aba. Allaah sent His final Messenger, the direct descendant of Prophet Abraham - who would call his people back to the original religion of his forefather - Abraham. The religion of Prophet Abraham was Islaam [submission to God, and it is for all of mankind.] This is why many of the rights we see today (i.e. the Prayers, the fasting, the giving to the needy etc.) are all parts of the religion of Prophet Abraham, and we follow him in that.


Know that Islaam is nothing new, rather - it's the religion of all the Prophets of God. All the Prophets called to the worship of God alone, while shunning all false deities. God's final Messenger is Muhammad (peace be upon him), God Almighty says in His final revelation:

"Say: 'O mankind! ! I am sent unto you all, as the Messenger of Allah, to Whom belongeth the dominion of the heavens and the earth: there is no god but He: it is He That giveth both life and death. So believe in Allah and His Messenger, the Unlettered Prophet, who believeth in Allah and His words: follow him that (so) ye may be guided." (Qur'an 7:158)

And they have been commanded no more than this: To worship Allah, offering Him sincere devotion, being true (in faith); to establish regular prayer; and to practise regular charity; and that is the Religion Right and Straight. [Qur'an The Clear Evidence 98:5]


Regards. :)
 
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Hey

After rereading you got it ... This is over.
I have much to learn, I know that.

Thank You
I am impressed with your attitude, and I appreciate the satisfaction you have given me. You will learn and grow quickly.
Sincerely,
aj
 
If Jesus didn't die and rise from the dead then Christianity would be dead.
 
Chinese whispers don't stop, they carry on and on and snowball, until they turn into something completely unrecognisable from what was originally said. The people at the end of the chain believe what they are hearing to be true, and to be the original truth, but it doesn't necessarily mean that it is.

Also, if we use your premise, atheism still exists, so according to that, do you accept that there is no God?

I'm not sure of the need to make this thread rise from the dead after five years...
 
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منوة الخيال;1539825 said:


it is indeed amongst all who are able to reason!

best,
When it comes to the things of God, it is better to trust His word over human reason or logic. As high as the heavens are from the earth are His ways and his thoughts above ours. His ways are passed finding out! :D
 

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