Do Angels Have free will?

[Snowflake]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

barney;925303]Ok. Cheers.

Their wings increase in power, but have no heavenly or earthly use, but can take up a hemisphere.

You're welcome. We know angels rise and descend from the heavens. But whether the wings are simply aesthetic or useful, we don't know. However, since Archangel Jibril has more wings than other angels, the number of wings could be to signify his status to other angels? Would make him stand out na? lol.

So if you hear a screech of brakes and leap out of the road, the unseen but physical beings flying in a real atmosphere but not using their wings, which may number in the hundreds , which are not there for asthetic's, will tell you that your in danger, and that may save you.

I'm getting it slowly I think.

I think hearing screeching brakes and leaping out of harms way boils down to our critical faculties of hearing/seeing. I think angels step in where our faculties are limited in knowing the unexpected dangers around us.

Peace.

Malaikah: As for free will, it is my understanding that angels do have free will but they always choose to do good according to the vast majority of scholars. The proofs cited for this include the fact that they asked Allah question about He did certain things, and also because the angels have been praised by God, and if they did not have free will, then they would not deserve praise.

Allah created obedience inherent in the angels. It is the basic characteristic of their being, hence they cannot disobey. That means their will has limits. We know angels can never disobey Allah, so it's not exactly free will they possess. However, limited will need not compromise the ability to think. The two can co-exist. While there is no good enough example to compare to heavenly matters, I hope this one will suffice: a slave/captive has to obey his master but still is able to think for himself i.e. he can still think of escaping (even escape) he can choose to sleep/stay awake, eat or not etc. As for angels, their thinking always conforms to Allah's commands - so it is not free will in the sense we possess it.

As for wings, I have never heard that they have no purpose other than too look good... Nor have I heard they are non-physical beings.

They are non-physical beings (of light) whom Allah has given power to take the shape of man as mentioned in the Quran. However, in the shape of man they will not have internal cavaties. This is why when Prophet Ibrahim (as) gave food to the angels who were visiting him (in the shape of men), they did not eat. Neither will they human genitalia, since angels do not have a gender.

I've also never heard that the wings are of aesthetic quality only.

 

[barney]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

You're welcome. We know angels rise and ascend from the heavens. But whether the wings are simply aesthetic or useful, we don't know. However, since Archangel Jibril has more wings than other angels, the number of wings could be to signify his status to other angels? Would make him stand out na? lol.


I think hearing screeching brakes and leaping out of harms way boils down to our critical faculties of hearing/seeing. I think angels step in where our faculties are limited in knowing the unexpected dangers around us.

Peace.


Allah created obedience inherent in the angels. It is the basic characteristic of their being, hence they cannot disobey. That means their will has limits. We know angels can never disobey Allah, so it's not exactly free will they possess. However, limited will need not compromise the ability to think. The two can co-exist. While there is no good enough example to compare to heavenly matters, I hope this one will suffice: a slave/captive has to obey his master but still is able to think for himself i.e. he can still think of escaping (even escape) he can choose to sleep/stay awake, eat or not etc. As for angels, their thinking always conforms to Allah's commands - so it is not free will in the sense we possess it.



They are non-physical beings (of light) whom Allah has given power to take the shape of man as mentioned in the Quran. However, in the shape of man they will not have internal cavaties. This is why when Prophet Ibrahim (as) gave food to the angels who were visiting him (in the shape of men), they did not eat. Neither will they human genitalia, since angels do not have a gender.

I've also never heard that the wings are of aesthetic quality only.

So the Angels arrive when we neither see nor hear the danger and allow us to see or hear the danger, then it's up to us to extricate ourselves from the danger?

The wings are possibly asthetic or a badge of rank but are not nesseccery in flying.
They are slaves to obay God, but can if they want do otherwise, but just dont.

It's getting clearer, thanks.

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu and Greetings.

There is a hadith which narrates how the Angel Jibreel (Gabriel) appeared before the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) in the form of a man who needed to know about Islam. He demanded the Prophet: "Inform me about faith. He (the Prophet) replied: That you affirm your faith in Allah, in His angels, in His Books, in His Apostles, in the Day of Judgment, and you affirm your faith in the Divine Decree about good and evil." (Muslim)

There were indeed several occasions in the life of the Prophet when the chief of the angels, Jibreel appeared to him in human form. But this was a miracle only the Prophet had experienced.

This in itself does not mean that the angels are made of material substance normally visible to humans. The Quran clearly says that the day when the angels are visible to the world would be a very harsh day for the unbelievers:

*{Upon the day when they see the angels -- no good tidings that day for the sinners ...

On the day when the heavens and the clouds are split asunder and the angels are sent down in a grand descent, the dominion that day will belong truly to the All-Merciful; it will be a harsh day for the unbelievers.}* (Al-Furqan 25: 22, 25-26)

It is reported in an authentic hadith that when people assemble in activities organized for the purpose of remembering Allah, the angels are around them and Allah Himself remembers them among those who are near to Him.

Thus, we can see that the belief in angels is crucial and central to our faith and Islam. This means that the absence of this belief would take away an essential part of our faith; and that is why we underscore the idea that belief in angels strengthens our faith.

 

[Malaikah]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

They are non-physical beings (of light) whom Allah has given power to take the shape of man as mentioned in the Quran.

On what bases do you say they are non-physical?

 

[------]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

:salamext:

http://www.islamicboard.com/aqeedah/36232-do-angels-have-free-will.html

Threads merged?

 

[FatimaAsSideqah]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

As Salaam Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi Wa Barakatuhu

They do not have any free will or an independent will to act on their own.

They carry out without question all the Commands (laws) of Allah and do not oppose or neglect them in any way.

Like everything in the Universe, day and night they are engaged in praising and glorifying Allah and are never tired of this. They do not get bored or tired of remembering and worshipping Allah. Allah says:

"They celebrate His praises night and day, nor do they ever slacken." (al-Anbiya', 21:20)

. . . For in the presence of your Lord are those who celebrate His praises by night and by day. Some spend their entire existence in Ruku’, others in Sujood.

 

[Snowflake]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

On what bases do you say they are non-physical?

In the sense that they cannot be seen, touched, or felt in their real form.

 

[barney]

Re: Angels: Free will or controlled?

Allah created obedience inherent in the angels. It is the basic characteristic of their being, hence they cannot disobey. That means their will has limits. We know angels can never disobey Allah, so it's not exactly free will they possess. However, limited will need not compromise the ability to think. The two can co-exist. While there is no good enough example to compare to heavenly matters, I hope this one will suffice: a slave/captive has to obey his master but still is able to think for himself i.e. he can still think of escaping (even escape) he can choose to sleep/stay awake, eat or not etc. As for angels, their thinking always conforms to Allah's commands - so it is not free will in the sense we possess it.

QUOTE]

You state its not free will as we possess it. Which seems clear from your description. Its simply a mass of contradictions in terms.

Perhaps it's a state of being which is undescribable in human terms and just "IS".

The Wing idea is totally baffeling me. I prefer the Christian Idea that, "its just how we used to draw them to make them look cool".
Seems strange to me that the wing idea seems to be a part of islam too and seems to have taken a fixed permenace.

Anyway, I think I have it all in my head now. Thanks for the answers folks.

 

[Chuck]

Its simply a mass of contradictions in terms.

Why?

The Wing idea is totally baffeling me.

So they are suppose to fly like superman in any direction they want?

 

[Ghira]

Wings are sign of rank and closeness to their Creator.

"Praise be to Allah, Who created (out of nothing) the heavens and the earth, Who made the angels, messengers with wings,- two, or three, or four (pairs): He adds to Creation as He pleases: for Allah has power over all things." (35:1)

Shiekh Suhaib Web said something beautiful about this verse. He said just like these angels have 2, 3, 4 wings to ascend towards Creator we are given something similar. We get closer to Allah (God) by praying 2, 3, 4 etc. Rakahs (units) of prayer. This makes more sense to a Muslim than non-Muslim. There is saying where Prophet (saw) said a slave is closest to Allah during sujood (prostration). This Surah ends by stating that God ADDS to whomever He pleases. Some people may pray more units of prayer to get closer to their Creator others may not, it is up to Allah to give the guidance or rank to the creation. As stated in Qur'an the best among you are those who are most God-conscious. Cannot deny that a rank system is set in place with creations of God (angels and humans).

 

[barney]

Wings are sign of rank and closeness to their Creator.
Shiekh Suhaib Web said something beautiful about this verse. He said just like these angels have 2, 3, 4 wings to ascend towards Creator we are given something similar. ).

Is that a metaphorical thing? I'm assuming that he wasnt claiming we would have spiritual wings stuck on after death dependent on the amount of prayers we did, more "those who pray to god get to him faster".


Chuck, why is a mass of contradictions? No offence meant at all, but it's like me saying "I dont see how you can have a solid vapour"
and you saying "Its not strictly speaking a solid as we know it, it's a substance that God chooses it to be and is a solid, but has the properties of a vapour, we have never seen it and there is no evidence for it, but we know it exists because we beleive in it"

As I say, you cant have bound free will. Will is free or it is not.
If the will is free. then angels could rebel. If its not they are automons.

 

[kirk]

..…the existence of angels doesn't mean God can't do stuff Himself, just that He choose to have angels do those things, for what ever reason He Wills.

If you have 2 children and you have magical the ability to be in 3 places at once, you could go to work and look after your 2 children all at the same time!

Such a person would not require angels to look after the children. God is supposed to be all powerful and therefore doesn’t need angels.

It is convenient for religious people to say: something that doesn’t make sense which agrees with religious belief, is the will of God.

When something doesn’t make sense that goes against religious belief – then it doesn’t make sense.

k

 

[barney]

Sumarian society was the first civilisation to beleive in Angels, they beleived they were messengers from their Gods, they had wings and the whole shebang.
That was 3000 BC.
When Abrahamic religions became mainstream, the idea naturally followed.These messengers were well known to the first scribes and so were written in to provide a tangible link with god.

http://www.feedback.nildram.co.uk/richardebbs/essays/angels.htm

 

[AceTCK]

Salaam or Peace be with you;

If the question is whether angels have free will, According to Islam, the Angels obey the command of God All Mighty, meaning they are the servants of God, and they serve a purpose.

This can be proven when Iblis or satan disobeyed God and was no longer amongst the angels that God favors. When satan challenged his creator and did not bow to Adam (Peace n blessings Upon him), which was a command by God, He became a rogue angel you could say.

 

[AceTCK]

I get what you are trying to say, but we all serve a purpose and the angels serve a purpose, just like humans are here for a purpose.

Brother or Sister according to your logic, if something can't be explained it doesn't make sense theory, then Prove to me that God does not exist, if you cant, does that mean that your theory does not make sense?

 

[barney]

I get what you are trying to say, but we all serve a purpose and the angels serve a purpose, just like humans are here for a purpose.

Brother or Sister according to your logic, if something can't be explained it doesn't make sense theory, then Prove to me that God does not exist, if you cant, does that mean that your theory does not make sense?

If this is Directed towards my posts, i'll happily answer.

I beleive God exists. God is the name I give to the entity/energy/force that created the universe.
I can't prove it dosn't exist, because evrything had to have a beginning. that Beginning is "God".

Theres no however reason why mythical beings called Angels exist, no reason why they have wings wither its two or six hundred the size of the earth, massive arguements against them if they have free will , massive arguements against them if they have'nt got free will, no reason for them to hold ranks, no reason for them to hold down jobs in heaven.

Of course it's all arguable that "God wills it", but I cant see why he would or should, even if he could!

 

[AceTCK]

Well I am not fully knowledgable on the purpose of Angels, but I can name one off the top of my head,

The Angle Gabriel came down to the Prophet Muhammad (peace and blessings upon him) and his task was to deliver the first message which was; "Read. In the name of your Lord".

and throughout the prophet's life the Angel Gabriel came several times by God's Will. So that would be the Angel's purpose.

We have the Angel of Death Israfeil if (Iam not mistaken), and his purpose is to take the life of the one whose time has come.


Regarding your point that God doesnt need Angels because he is Almighty; God doesnt not NEED ANYONE, lets make that clear. But we all serve a different purpose which God has commanded us to follow, whether it be Angels or Human. So the fact that Angels exist or Human Beings exist is not because God needs us, We need God.

Your point about free will concerning the Angels, Iam not sure, but Human Beings do have free will, but whatever they do, since God is the All Knowing, he knows ahead of time, but it is up to you if you choose right or wrong, as an example.

 

[Malaikah]

Such a person would not require angels to look after the children. God is supposed to be all powerful and therefore doesn’t need angels.

It is convenient for religious people to say: something that doesn’t make sense which agrees with religious belief, is the will of God.

I don't see why having having angels doesn't make sense. I love the fact that angels exist, they add so much flavour to things!

What you need is to understand the difference between need and want. Just because God wants to have angels doesn't mean He needs to have angels.

 

[barney]

I don't see why having having angels doesn't make sense. I love the fact that angels exist, they add so much flavour to things!

What you need is to understand the difference between need and want. Just because God wants to have angels doesn't mean He needs to have angels.

I love the idea of Angels as well. They definatly add flavour, mystique and interest.

I would question why God wants angels, I know he wouldnt need them, nor would he need them to have wings.
He popped one outside eden with a sword to stop adam and Eve sneaking back in.
Why? Why not just make eden just inaccessable to them. They cross the line and they die or mayby in tune with his mercy, they just cant walk any further.
Why tie up an angel for 900 years till they die? Or longer if Eve outlived Adam, as girls generally live longer. Thats a Angel out of action waiting 1200 odd years for her to die.
Why give the angel a sword? Its a freaking angel! It can kill with mind-bullets or something without a single atom of exertion. Whats the sword going to do?
Why not a M203 Minigun?
If Angels needed swords then the 1000 strong unit of angels, led by Gabriel, present at Badar wouldnt have been so effective in killing or wounding over 5% of the enemy combatants, assuming that the mortal muslims present killed nobody.

Just so many anomolys to be honest. i could go on for hours.....

 

[Snowflake]

You state its not free will as we possess it. Which seems clear from your description. Its simply a mass of contradictions in terms.

How is it contradictory? I admit the 'slave' example was a bit rubbish lol. But we're looking at two things that are separate qualities i.e. the ability to think and the ability to choose want we want to do. Angels can think, as they had when they questioned Allah swt. So they have the choice to do that. To be able to ask questions you've got to have some free will right? And that's the limit for angels. It may not be free will as our is for us humans but for an angel who cannot disobey God, it's as much free will as ours is to us. Barney, how's that difficult to comprehend? lol

As I say, you cant have bound free will. Will is free or it is not.
If the will is free. then angels could rebel. If its not they are automons.

We can't apply our definition of free will to other beings in other dimensions since will is in accordance to the purpose we are made for. Even as a human being my will however free one says it is is limited according to my abilities. I could will to do to PhD but I know I won't be able to. So now how do we define free will?

Malaikah: What you need is to understand the difference between need and want. Just because God wants to have angels doesn't mean He needs to have angels.

Spot on! :thumbs_up