Do Muslims believe the original Bible is the word of God?

[Phil12123]

brother Isa asked:
3.You claim Jesus' message was not a new message but only a reminder/revival of Moses' message, "It was not a new message, it was a revival of the old." From what do you derive this understanding, Islamicly.

3. "And in their footsteps We sent jesus the son of Mary, confirming the Law that had come before him: We sent him the Gospel: therein was guidance and light, and confirmation of the Law that had come before him: a guidance and an admonition to those who fear Allah."

5.46

"And remember, Jesus, the son of Mary, said: "O Children of Israel! I am the apostle of Allah (sent) to you, confirming the Law (which came) before me, and giving Glad Tidings of an Messenger to come after me, whose name shall be Ahmad." But when he came to them with Clear Signs, they said, "this is evident sorcery!"

61.6

In a sense it was 'new' it was more of a reinterpretation. He did not come to abolish all of the law. But to make the strict law more lenient.

Two comments, one a statement and the other a question.

First, in the Bible, specifically, Matthew, chapter 5, Jesus actually makes the Law MORE STRICT by extending it or reinterpreting it to include not merely outward actions but also attitudes of the heart. The Pharisees were great for appearing outwardly pious while inwardly they were evil. Jesus addressed this by applying the Law to their evil hearts. For example, He said in

Matthew 5:
21. "You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not murder,' and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.
22. "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, `Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, `You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

27. "You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not commit adultery.'
28. "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

31. "Furthermore it has been said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32. "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

38. "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39. "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

43. "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44. "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45. "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46. "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47. "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Secondly, a question: In the quote of the Quran above (5.46), "the Gospel" is mentioned. What does "the Gospel" consist of? The word means "good news". What "good news" is it referring to in 5.46?

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Secondly, a question: In the quote of the Quran above (5.46), "the Gospel" is mentioned. What does "the Gospel" consist of? The word means "good news". What "good news" is it referring to in 5.46?

The "Good News" that God (swt) revealed to I'sa(a.s.) was his word and his promises and desires for us. This was the Gospel, that no longer seems to exist. In what remains of the Bible we only have some references to it in the words of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. What the full Gospel was we had lost until Allah(SWT) revealed it again to Mohammad.

 

[Isa Abdullah]

The "Good News" that God (swt) revealed to I'sa(a.s.) was his word and his promises and desires for us. This was the Gospel, that no longer seems to exist. In what remains of the Bible we only have some references to it in the words of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. What the full Gospel was we had lost until Allah(SWT) revealed it again to Mohammad.

bismillahir rahmanir rahim
Good answer.

 

[Isa Abdullah]

Two comments, one a statement and the other a question.

First, in the Bible, specifically, Matthew, chapter 5, Jesus actually makes the Law MORE STRICT by extending it or reinterpreting it to include not merely outward actions but also attitudes of the heart. The Pharisees were great for appearing outwardly pious while inwardly they were evil. Jesus addressed this by applying the Law to their evil hearts. For example, He said in

Matthew 5:
21. "You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not murder,' and whoever murders will be in danger of the judgment.
22. "But I say to you that whoever is angry with his brother without a cause shall be in danger of the judgment. And whoever says to his brother, `Raca!' shall be in danger of the council. But whoever says, `You fool!' shall be in danger of hell fire.

27. "You have heard that it was said to those of old, `You shall not commit adultery.'
28. "But I say to you that whoever looks at a woman to lust for her has already committed adultery with her in his heart.

31. "Furthermore it has been said, `Whoever divorces his wife, let him give her a certificate of divorce.'
32. "But I say to you that whoever divorces his wife for any reason except sexual immorality causes her to commit adultery; and whoever marries a woman who is divorced commits adultery.

38. "You have heard that it was said, `An eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth.'
39. "But I tell you not to resist an evil person. But whoever slaps you on your right cheek, turn the other to him also.

43. "You have heard that it was said, `You shall love your neighbor and hate your enemy.'
44. "But I say to you, love your enemies, bless those who curse you, do good to those who hate you, and pray for those who spitefully use you and persecute you,
45. "that you may be sons of your Father in heaven; for He makes His sun rise on the evil and on the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.
46. "For if you love those who love you, what reward have you? Do not even the tax collectors do the same?
47. "And if you greet your brethren only, what do you do more than others? Do not even the tax collectors do so?
48. "Therefore you shall be perfect, just as your Father in heaven is perfect.

Secondly, a question: In the quote of the Quran above (5.46), "the Gospel" is mentioned. What does "the Gospel" consist of? The word means "good news". What "good news" is it referring to in 5.46?

Peace

Yes, Jesus (as [Isa]) came to confirm the law before him. Brother Woodrow answered your second question.

 

[Phil12123]

The "Good News" that God (swt) revealed to I'sa(a.s.) was his word and his promises and desires for us. This was the Gospel, that no longer seems to exist. In what remains of the Bible we only have some references to it in the words of John, Mark, Matthew and Luke. What the full Gospel was we had lost until Allah(SWT) revealed it again to Mohammad.

So, can you summarize the "Good News" as revealed to Mohammad, according to your understanding? Paul summarized it in 3 verses (1 Cor. 15:1-3). Can you do the same, or perhaps "in 26 words or less"?

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

So, can you summarize the "Good News" as revealed to Mohammad, according to your understanding? Paul summarized it in 3 verses (1 Cor. 15:1-3). Can you do the same, or perhaps "in 26 words or less"?

Peace

Very good challange. For myself I'm satisfied with Surah One, Al-Fatihah.

1: 1. In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful. S P
1: 2. Praise be to Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds; S P C
1: 3. Most Gracious, Most Merciful; S P
1: 4. Master of the Day of Judgment. S P
1: 5. Thee do we worship, and Thine aid we seek. S P C

1: 6. Show us the straight way, S P C
1: 7. The way of those on whom Thou hast bestowed Thy Grace, those whose (portion) is not wrath, and who go not astray. S P C

Yusuf Ali's Quran Translation

Quite simply put it tells us Allah(SWT) provides all and forgives all.
(In the name of Allah, Most Gracious, Most Merciful)
Then he shows us the clear directions on what he wishes.
(Show us the straight way)
(14 words for the basic message)

Now turn about is fair play. Where did Jesus(a.s.) ever say he came to die for our sins?

 

[Phil12123]

Where did Jesus(a.s.) ever say he came to die for our sins?

Excellent question. It consists of two parts actually: 1. He came to die, and 2. His death would be for our sins. Consider these verses:

In support of Part 1, He came to die:

Matthew 20:28. "just as the Son of Man did not come to be served, but to serve, and to give His life a ransom for many.''

John 10:
11. "I am the good shepherd. The good shepherd gives His life for the sheep.
12. "But he who is a hireling and not the shepherd, one who does not own the sheep, sees the wolf coming and leaves the sheep and flees; and the wolf catches the sheep and scatters them.
13. "The hireling flees because he is a hireling and does not care about the sheep.
14. "I am the good shepherd; and I know My sheep, and am known by My own.
15. "As the Father knows Me, even so I know the Father; and I lay down My life for the sheep.
17. "Therefore My Father loves Me, because I lay down My life that I may take it again.
18. "No one takes it from Me, but I lay it down of Myself. I have power to lay it down, and I have power to take it again. This command I have received from My Father.''

In support of Part 2, His death would be for our sins:

Matthew 26:
26. And as they were eating, Jesus took bread, blessed it and broke it, and gave it to the disciples and said, "Take, eat; this is My body.''
27. Then He took the cup, and gave thanks, and gave it to them, saying, "Drink from it, all of you.
28. "For this is My blood of the new covenant, which is shed for many for the remission of sins.

In addition, the concept of His giving His life a ransom (quoted first above) involves a payment for the release of one held captive or held in bondage. As sinners we are all in bondage to sin, held captive to it. In speaking of people being slaves or servants of sin, Jesus said, "If the Son therefore shall make you free, you shall be free indeed" (John 8:36). He makes us free by paying that ransom, paying for our sins so that we are no longer subject to the sentence of death we deserve for them. On the cross when breathing His last, He said, "It is finished!" which is the Greek word, tetelestai, which can signify, "PAID IN FULL!" Hallelujah!! What a Savior!!

Peace

 

[Phil12123]

Woodrow, another thought to follow-up my above post.

After Jesus rose from the dead, he appeared to two on the road to Emmaus (Luke 24:13-35). In that account, the two showed they had no idea why He had to die. They said to Him in verse 21, "But we were hoping that it was He who was going to redeem Israel." They were expecting a Messiah who would deliver them from Roman bondage, rather than a Savior Who would deliver them from the bondage of sin.

Notice what He said to them, verses 25-26:
25. Then He said to them, "O foolish ones, and slow of heart to believe in all that the prophets have spoken!
26. "Ought not the Christ to have suffered these things and to enter into His glory?''
27. And beginning at Moses and all the Prophets, He expounded to them in all the Scriptures the things concerning Himself.

Then when He appeared in the midst of the disciples, we read, verses 44-48:

44. Then He said to them, "These are the words which I spoke to you while I was still with you, that all things must be fulfilled which were written in the Law of Moses and the Prophets and the Psalms concerning Me.''
45. And He opened their understanding, that they might comprehend the Scriptures.
46. Then He said to them, "Thus it is written, and thus it was necessary for the Christ to suffer and to rise from the dead the third day,
47. "and that repentance and remission of sins should be preached in His name to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem.
48. "And you are witnesses of these things.

It was necessary for Him to die in fulfillment of all that is written in the Old Testament concerning Him. That would certainly include Isaiah 53:

5. But He was wounded for our transgressions, He was bruised for our iniquities; the chastisement for our peace was upon Him, and by His stripes we are healed.
6. All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and the Lord has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
7. He was oppressed and He was afflicted, yet He opened not His mouth; He was led as a lamb to the slaughter, and as a sheep before its shearers is silent, so He opened not his mouth.
8. He was taken from prison and from judgment, and who will declare His generation? For He was cut off from the land of the living; for the transgressions of My people He was stricken.
9. And they made His grave with the wicked but with the rich at His death, because He had done no violence, nor was any deceit in His mouth.
10. Yet it pleased the Lord to bruise Him; He has put Him to grief. When You make His soul an offering for sin, He shall see His seed, He shall prolong His days, and the pleasure of the Lord shall prosper in His hand.
11. He shall see the travail of His soul, and be satisfied. by His knowledge My righteous Servant shall justify many, for He shall bear their iniquities.
12. Therefore I will divide Him a portion with the great, and He shall divide the spoil with the strong, because He poured out His soul unto death, and He was numbered with the transgressors, and He bore the sin of many, and made intercession for the transgressors.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Thank you for your replies Phil.

At the moment I will refrain from asking another question. I do have more questions for you, you gave a good specific question for what I asked.

I do not wish to carry this thread further off topic . Any debate I may have for your answer I will reserve for another thread.Now to return to the original topic, which is:

Do Muslims believe the original Bible is the word of God?

For my self I do believe the original Bible was the word of Allah(swt) We are commanded to believe the words of that which came before which is:

Tauret (The Old Testament)
Zaboor (Book of Psalms)
Injeel (The Gospel of Jesus a.s.)

we also believe none of these exist in their original form.

 

[lolwatever]

^^ yeh i agree with Woodrow..

i can't b bothered reading the previous 8 pages... but i'm surprised how it's taking more than a page to simply say "yes we do believe the original bible is the word of god".

this thread should be closed lol, the answer was made clear i think by bro woodrow, if not already in the previous pages

 

[Woodrow]

^^ yeh i agree with Woodrow..

i can't b bothered reading the previous 8 pages... but i'm surprised how it's taking more than a page to simply say "yes we do believe the original bible is the word of god".

this thread should be closed lol, the answer was made clear i think by bro woodrow, if not already in the previous pages

I agree the thread has run it's course and should be closed. However, I am not going to close it immediatly as I am one of those guilty of leading it astray. I will close the thread tomorrow(July 20) unless another mod sees fit to close it sooner.

Those of us who got side tracked can continue our debates on a new thread.

 

[MUNIRAH]

^^ yeh i agree with Woodrow..

i can't b bothered reading the previous 8 pages... but i'm surprised how it's taking more than a page to simply say "yes we do believe the original bible is the word of god".

this thread should be closed lol, the answer was made clear i think by bro woodrow, if not already in the previous pages

Yup! u right the original bible is indeed the words of Allah.....
Tawraat=Pentateuch
Injiil=Gospel
Zabuur=Psalms

 

[Phil12123]

Thank you for your replies Phil.

At the moment I will refrain from asking another question. I do have more questions for you, you gave a good specific question for what I asked.

I do not wish to carry this thread further off topic . Any debate I may have for your answer I will reserve for another thread.Now to return to the original topic, which is:

Do Muslims believe the original Bible is the word of God?

For my self I do believe the original Bible was the word of Allah(swt) We are commanded to believe the words of that which came before which is:

Tauret (The Old Testament)
Zaboor (Book of Psalms)
Injeel (The Gospel of Jesus a.s.)

we also believe none of these exist in their original form.

Woodrow, our recent posts related to the "Gospel" part of the above ("Injeel"). What I wanted to know was, what that consists of, if not what Paul tells us. Jesus' dying for our sins is part of what Paul defines as the Gospel. So we didn't go too far off topic, but if you'd like to start a different thread and continue our discussion there, that is fine.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Peace Phil,

We will continue on another thread. In the mean time the original question of this topic has been answered more then a few times so it is time to let this thread rest.




:threadclo