Do none muslims agree that the quran has no contradictions?

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Jayda said:
hola,

i don't know what google has to do with anything, but i'd prefer to not discuss specifics with you. this isn't the appropriate setting. i was somewhat surprised that muslims think non muslims believe the quran is perfect or non contradictory... why would we remain something other than muslim if that were so?

que Dios te bendiga
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Hola, Jayda

So if at one stage in your life you see that the quran is contradicting free and that the scientific miracles are correct would you then convert into a muslim?

que Dios te bendiga
 
Hamada said:
Hola, Jayda

So if at one stage in your life you see that the quran is contradicting free and that the scientific miracles are correct would you then convert into a muslim?

que Dios te bendiga
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hola

that is an excellent question, i don't think anybody here has asked me that before. i do not believe it would make a difference... unless there were some way to reconcile the things mohamed taught with Catholic theology i do not see any way i would accept him as a prophet, and accepting mohamed as a prophet is central to islam.

my name is annette btw, i don't think i interact with you very much here so i am pleased to make your acquaintance

que Dios te bendiga
 
Jayda said:
hola,

i don't know what google has to do with anything, but i'd prefer to not discuss specifics with you. this isn't the appropriate setting. i was somewhat surprised that muslims think non muslims believe the quran is perfect or non contradictory... why would we remain something other than muslim if that were so?

que Dios te bendiga
Click to expand...

There are many reasons people choose to remain 3la dalalihim!

I am pretty sure you don't want to discuss specifics, the reasons are only too obvious. That being said however, if you are going to write with bravado, be prepared to back it up or keep your comments where they can only work to assuage your private doubts!


cheers
 
the only reason people get confused with contradictions is . . .

1 - they just want to believe it :mmokay:

2 - read a wrong translation

there are no contradictions in the Quraan, when it says he created from a clot or created from clay, thats not a contradiction, its just common sense!

its like me saying i have a eye with a eyeball inside it! to have a eye ball i have to have a eye innit

same way to have a person you 1st gotta have clot, then when the person is created in the womb its the clay bit kickin in! so its not a contradiction, its just further improves the correctness of the Quraan, that back in those days the Quraan is mentioning stuff that science has only discovered today
 
Hello/Assalam Alakuim, I am a non muslim, and I have read some parts of the Koran...

But to give an answer to your ? no they don't believe it is perfect, just like you believe yours is the one they do too...
 
guyabano said:
... the question was, who was the first muslim? ...
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Hi guyabano,

The first Muslim in the history was Adam (may peace be upon him!), who was also the first prophet of God and the first human and lived many thousands years ago. The true followers of all prophets of God were also Muslims. Muhammad (may peace be upon him!) was the first Muslim among his own people.

... who was the first muslim? ...
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For an answer to your claim, click this.
 
Greetings,

Regarding the OP's question: Obviously, someone who believes the Qur'an is perfect would already be a Muslim.

The tradition of belief in the perfection of the Qur'an is almost as old as Islam itself, so any rational argument is rather pointless in the face of it at this stage. People will believe what they want to believe.

It's interesting to hear of a book that large numbers of people consider to be perfect, so I've read the Qur'an several times over the years. I've seen nothing in it that could not have been the work of human hands, to be honest, and so, for that reason among many others, remain unconvinced.

Incidentally, I'm not sure about exactly how a "perfect" text could even exist.
How would its perfection be assessed? Surely a perfect text would have to be equally effective on all readers? This is clearly not the case with the Qur'an. While I'm sure that many people have read it and converted to Islam, many readers haven't.

Hamada said:
The embryological studies in the Quran are in fact are too advanced for anybody to have known 1400 yrs ago. Understanding this, many embryologists in the past decades have embraced Islam recognizing that the source of this knowledge must be divine.
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Could you name ten of them?

An impartial scientist like Dr. Bucaille, who (being also a Christian) was conversant with the Biblical version of Pharaoh's story as being drowned in pursuit of Prophet Moses. He was pleasantly surprised to learn that unknown to the world till only of late 20th century, the Holy Quran made definite prediction about the preservation of the body of that same Pharaoh of Moses' time. This led Dr. Bucaille to study the Holy Quran thoroughly after learning the Arabic language and accepted Islam as the truth.
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Thank you for sharing this article with us. Do you have any evidence to show that Bucaille actually did become a Muslim? (I'm not denying it happened, because I don't know, but has he ever actually said this publicly?)

Peace
 
maybe perfect = free of contradictions?
not sure.
as i said before, i didn't find any contradictions, but i wasn't looking for them either.
 
Jayda said:
hola

that is an excellent question, i don't think anybody here has asked me that before. i do not believe it would make a difference... unless there were some way to reconcile the things mohamed taught with Catholic theology i do not see any way i would accept him as a prophet, and accepting mohamed as a prophet is central to islam.

my name is annette btw, i don't think i interact with you very much here so i am pleased to make your acquaintance

que Dios te bendiga
Click to expand...

hola anette, nice talking to you, my name is hamad, but people call me hamada:).
 
chacha_jalebi said:
the only reason people get confused with contradictions is . . .

1 - they just want to believe it :mmokay:

2 - read a wrong translation

there are no contradictions in the Quraan, when it says he created from a clot or created from clay, thats not a contradiction, its just common sense!

its like me saying i have a eye with a eyeball inside it! to have a eye ball i have to have a eye innit

same way to have a person you 1st gotta have clot, then when the person is created in the womb its the clay bit kickin in! so its not a contradiction, its just further improves the correctness of the Quraan, that back in those days the Quraan is mentioning stuff that science has only discovered today
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can you point us to the "right" translation.
 
ranma1/2 said:
can you point us to the "right" translation.
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No there are only a few that are less wrong than the others. I just finished a debate with a person about the problem in trying to translate any written version of either Arabic, Hebrew or Arabic.

all three of them only use a few consonants for writing those words and those consonanats only give a root of what could possibly be many different words. The oral recitation are a better source for trying to do an accurte translation. But I have not seen any proficient reciters with translation skills.

The best alternative would be to read several translations while listening to a recitation and by the tone of the words try to feel the projected mood of the reciter and use that to see which translation fits the mood of the words. It is a slow process but the overal result is you will gain a better understanding than by just reading one translation.
 
if the quran is so intimately tied to the language that seemingly nothing of its 'divine nature' can be carried into other languages how can you say this is not an exclusively arab religion?
 
Jayda said:
if the quran is so intimately tied to the language that seemingly nothing of its 'divine nature' can be carried into other languages how can you say this is not an exclusively arab religion?
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The same way in which one could say that:
Jesus (a Jew) was sent by god/ "is god", to save the Jewish people. However he came to teach gods/his word to the whole of humanity. He was based in the Middle East and those around him spoke the local language (Hebrew/Aramaic- i'm not too sure what language the people around him spoke). Therefore the first ever Bible must be in this langauge, as the majority of those who witnessed Jesus could only express what they saw/heard or even repeat what Jesus did/said in hebrew/aramaic.

The Qu'ran does have importance in the language it has been written in, but even the straight English translation can greatly benefit the reader.
 
eh. that is the sort of question that is asked by folks who want to compensate for this

'I have not been sent except to the lost sheep of the House of Israel.' (Matthew 15:24)

Hence every one of the famous twelve disciples of Jesus was an Israelite Jew. The one biblical passage where Jesus is supposed to have told his disciples to 'Go and preach unto all nations, baptising them in the name of the Father, Son and Holy Ghost.' (Matthew 28:19), commonly quoted to prove the Gentile mission as well as the Trinity, is not found in any pre-sixteenth century manuscript and is thus considered 'a pious fraud'.

:w:
 
minaz said:
The same way in which one could say that:
Jesus (a Jew) was sent by god/ "is god", to save the Jewish people. However he came to teach gods/his word to the whole of humanity. He was based in the Middle East and those around him spoke the local language (Hebrew/Aramaic- i'm not too sure what language the people around him spoke). Therefore the first ever Bible must be in this langauge, as the majority of those who witnessed Jesus could only express what they saw/heard or even repeat what Jesus did/said in hebrew/aramaic.

The Qu'ran does have importance in the language it has been written in, but even the straight English translation can greatly benefit the reader.
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Actually that is false. The disciples spoke Greek, and they wrote in Greek. That doesn't mean they didn't also speak Aramaic, but the langauge of commerce and writing during this period was Greek. Brought about by the Hellinistic world Alexander the Great created.
 
Why indeed are there any Greek words in the "Aramaic Scriptures?" The short answer is that you were working with the "Pe****to" which is otherwise known as the West Palestinian "Pe****ta" that was made to conform to the pre-Christian Septuagint of the Greek church. We know that Jesus did not speak Greek because the Aramaic speaking people in the time of Jesus considered it sinful to speak any other language. This had to be true because the Aramaic Estrangelo Script was the lingua franca in Palestine at the time of Jesus. Aramaic in this script is similar to Arabic and this was the language of commerce and industry. A growing number of scholars now recognize that Jesus spoke this form of Aramaic, not Greek. The square letter Aramaic in Hebraic characters came much later. (See "Western Christian Scholars Awaken to Truth" in the Table of Contents on the Aramaic Bible Society Website). See Eusebius' "Ecclesiastical History", first published in 1928! Also, "The Age of Faith", Will and Ariel Durant's "The Story of Civilization", Vol. 4.
 
After all, the entire New Testament has come down to us in Koine Greek, a dialect of Jesus’ day. However, almost all scholars agree that the mother tongue of the Jews in Israel was not Greek. As we will see, the New Testament records various words written in the spoken language and then transliterated and translated into Greek.
Aramaic

http://www.ccsom.org/languageofjesus/
 

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