Homosexuality

[Rhubarb Tart]

Before anyone jumps on me.

I don’t want people to think I accept homosexuality or think Islam should. I know Islam will never accept homosexuality until the end of time, period. This is why I think we would never agree with non Muslims on this issue and see it as pointless.

All I am saying is the struggles and feelings homosexual especially Muslims ones is greater than we may have anticipated. So maybe we should just recognise that it their life time struggle and test? And that they should sacrifice their feelings for sake of Allah (swt) instead putting them in same category as devils really. And that we should help these sisters and brothers to deal with their struggles?

I see it as useless and unhelpful to put them on same category as paedophiles and zoophiles (who happen to commit crimes against those who cannot consent or protect themselves). That is all.

 

[cat eyes]

hes trying to prove that criminals can be nice too.. the priest i know down the road is nice but he knew other priests were raping little boys and didnt do anything about it

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

You could say that about any sin.. Why would any muslim do a wrong act (e.g. lie) and risk burning in hell when they can just as easily switch of their desire to this said act?

Anyway, homosexual acts and any form of sodomy is forbidden in Islam. There are people out there that struggle with it no doubt, may Allah make it easy for them, ameen.

Ameen

Exactly, I see them as human being with possibly life long struggle and we all have to sacrifice something that haram for sake of Allah. The act of homosexuality is something they have to sacrifice no matter how strong their feelings are. I just don’t undermine their struggle.

 

[Asiyah3]

I see it as useless and unhelpful to put them on same category as paedophiles and zoophiles (who happen to commit crimes against those who cannot consent or protect themselves). That is all.

:wa:

When I placed pedophiles and zoophiles there with homosexuality, I was referring to sexual deviance and as said by the same token a paedophile cannot help the way he is, this is the way he was born.

 

[PouringRain]

I believe it is a choice.

 

[Ramadhan]

Many still had sex with same gender behind their spouse back...

True, but I believe many more are able to control their unlawful urges and have faithful loving marriages.

 

[Ramadhan]

Keep wondering. People use example of people of the lutt as an example why homosexuality is the worse sin on earth. But I think the people of the lutt also committed other sins? Like adultery, music? That is no way belittling the sin itself. Homosexuality is a major sin along with other sins people of lutt have committed.

They did other crimes, too. But what is told in the Qur'an was that it is their crimes of men wanting other men ( a crime that had never been done by any other nation prior to the the people of Lut as - it is there in the Qur'an). I dont have time to search for the related verses. But Ive read them many times.

Paedophiles and zoophiles hardly ever get a death sentence in most countries (including Muslim countries) in this world unless they killed the child unlike homosexuality even in the past. In fact paedophiles are acceptable in some countries under the term "marriage" or "slave, servant" whilst homosexuals get hanged. Hence why I think your question is irrelevant, as most paedophiles dont face death sentence (unless they killed a child) even in America. So my question remains why would homosexuals risk their lives in countries where they would definitely hanged?

Are we talking about the real shariah law, or are we talking about corrupt customary laws in some muslim majority countries?
Also, I'd like to know if those homosexuals who were hanged according to you did any other crime, such as rape and/or murder.

Well those he was referring to (if it in west) is pretty small.

I am talking about muslims, as pious and righteous muslims would love and fear Allah more than anything.
I don't care about any other people who obviously don't have anything as strong as Islam to stand on.

 

[Ramadhan]

He's trying to say someone being 'lovely' does not mean it is ok to overlook their evil acts (as you tried to imply we should do when you questionned whether anybody has ever spoken to a gay).

Would you approve of a chronic liar given that he is lovely in every other way? Or a murderer for the same reason?

How about a necrophile? Or those that indulge in willing incest?

The point is that there is a flaw in your logic.

This is exactly what I was trying to convey.
You are much more eloquent and effective with words than I.

 

[Salahudeen]

Paedophiles and zoophiles hardly ever get a death sentence in most countries (including Muslim countries) in this world unless they killed the child unlike homosexuality even in the past. In fact paedophiles are acceptable in some countries under the term "marriage" or "slave, servant" whilst homosexuals get hanged. Hence why I think your question is irrelevant, as most paedophiles dont face death sentence (unless they killed a child) even in America. So my question remains why would homosexuals risk their lives in countries where they would definitely hanged?

The punishment is not the point here, the point is anyone can argue that they can't help their sexual preference, just like a gay person says

"I can't help how I am I like men this is how God made me there's nothing wrong with it"

a paedo can say also

"I can't help how I am I like children this is the way god made me what's wrong with it it's natural to have this desire for children this is my sexual preferance, I don't get turned on by women or men, little children only turn me on"

One is classed as a sickness the other isn't when infact both are devient.

 

[Ramadhan]

Before anyone jumps on me.

I don’t want people to think I accept homosexuality or think Islam should. I know Islam will never accept homosexuality until the end of time, period. This is why I think we would never agree with non Muslims on this issue and see it as pointless.

I agree with you. Although it baffles me that christians and jews think that homosexual acts does not break God's command when their scriptures clearly told story about God's wrath for such people and His severe punishments for those people.

All I am saying is the struggles and feelings homosexual especially Muslims ones is greater than we may have anticipated. So maybe we should just recognise that it their life time struggle and test? And that they should sacrifice their feelings for sake of Allah (swt) instead putting them in same category as devils really. And that we should help these sisters and brothers to deal with their struggles?

Sister, we have no problem with those who struggle to obey God's commands and avoid doing sins and in fact we should help them, BUT... there are people who call themselves "gay muslims" (what an oxymoron) and "proud to be who they are" who does not care about what's haram and what's halal even though they have the knowledge and even make their sins public. now how do you suppose we deal with such people?

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

[=naidamar;1367296]They did other crimes, too. But what is told in the Qur'an was that it is their crimes of men wanting other men ( a crime that had never been done by any other nation prior to the the people of Lut as - it is there in the Qur'an). I dont have time to search for the related verses. But Ive read them many times.

[/QUOTE]

oh Okay it makes sense now.

Are we talking about the real shariah law, or are we talking about corrupt customary laws in some muslim majority countries?
Also, I'd like to know if those homosexuals who were hanged according to you did any other crime, such as rape and/or murder.

There isn't any country in this world that has proper shariah law. And it is not necessarily Muslim countries either. Many African countries prosecute and do hang them and they still do it. I suppose you are talking about the two Iranian boys? Allah (swt) knows if they were even homosexuals or rapists.

I am talking about muslims, as pious and righteous muslims would love and fear Allah more than anything.
I don't care about any other people who obviously don't have anything as strong as Islam to stand on.

okay, sorry.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

I agree with you. Although it baffles me that christians and jews think that homosexual acts does not break God's command when their scriptures clearly told story about God's wrath for such people and His severe punishments for those people.

Yeah it baffles me too.

Sister, we have no problem with those who struggle to obey God's commands and avoid doing sins and in fact we should help them, BUT... there are people who call themselves "gay muslims" (what an oxymoron) and "proud to be who they are" who does not care about what's haram and what's halal even though they have the knowledge and even make their sins public. now how do you suppose we deal with such people?

I dont know. Provide evidence using scriptures. I am hoping they are few of them like that tbh.

 

[Rhubarb Tart]

:wa:

When I placed pedophiles and zoophiles there with homosexuality, I was referring to sexual deviance and as said by the same token a paedophile cannot help the way he is, this is the way he was born.

Okay sister. That was not in reference to you btw. I was talking about in general.

 

[DavidK565]

I agree with you. Although it baffles me that christians and jews think that homosexual acts does not break God's command when their scriptures clearly told story about God's wrath for such people and His severe punishments for those people.

Jews and Christians who take a more secular approach to life generally don't take issue with homosexuality (though most Christians still are against the idea of gay marriage). Religious people, such as Orthodox Jews or Christians who take the bible as the literal, word-for-word truth, consider homosexuality to be "an abomination"... so, they're against it too.

 

[aadil77]

BUT... there are people who call themselves "gay muslims" (what an oxymoron) and "proud to be who they are" who does not care about what's haram and what's halal even though they have the knowledge and even make their sins public. now how do you suppose we deal with such people?

they aren't muslims to begin as they reject it as being haram

 

[Tyrion]

Hasn't this topic been covered enough? I'm sure a simple search through the forum (or google) would suffice for anyone who's interested...

 

[Predator]

I agree with you. Although it baffles me that christians and jews think that homosexual acts does not break God's command when their scriptures clearly told story about God's wrath for such people and His severe punishments for those people.

Christian Teli-EvangelistJimmy Swaggart writes in his book "Homosexuality' --- "AMERICA !!! , God will Judge you . If he does not judge you , then he would need to apologize for what he did to Sodom and Gomorah 4000 years ago "

 

[Woodrow]

I think in the Western World we are seeing a pendulum swing regarding attitudes towards homosexuality. In the recent past there was an extreme opposite attitude. Homosexuals were blatantly murdered with no fear of repercussions from the police. When I was a young boy it was common practice for gangbangers to rob Homosexuals knowing that they would not get reported and the gay person would get no support from the police, as the attitude was if the person was gay, they deserved what they got. I think a feeling of communal guilt for the injustices done to them has resulted in a swing to the opposite extreme. It has only been in the past 30 years that homosexuals have gained any protection in the USA. I do agree the pendulum has swung to far in the acceptance of homosexuality. Inshallah, perhaps over time the pendulum will stop at a sensible place.

 

[Mikayeel]

My opinion is that if you are in fact born gay you dont practise it. Don't go against natures flow, surpress your urges, and marry women like the Lord almighty wanted us to.
Just like when some people claim they are born to kill, that doesnt give them right to go out and freely kill others just because they cant control their desires.

 

[DavidK565]

If God knows what's in your heart, can a gay person be punished for simply BEING gay and suppressing it, or must they follow through with the actions that go along with homosexuality?