Homosexuality

[Alpha Dude]

If God knows what's in your heart, can a gay person be punished for simply BEING gay and suppressing it, or must they follow through with the actions that go along with homosexuality?

God would not punish a man who strives/struggles to refrain from sin, whatever that sin may be. If a person does end up doing a forbidden act, then a sin is counted in his scale of deeds (unless this person repents).

However, you should note that there is no such thing as 'being gay' according to Islam. A person is not thought of as a gay person vs a straight person.

The issue is considered in the light of sin vs. non-sin. A person is either thinking of or doing a gay act or he isn't. The fact that a person has an inclination to do an evil gay act, does not make him a 'gay entity'.

Like, if a person is addicted to gossiping, he wouldn't in his mind define himself as a gossiper. There is no need. He should just see gosipping as a sin to avoid. Likewise with homosexual acts.

 

[Ramadhan]

If God knows what's in your heart, can a gay person be punished for simply BEING gay and suppressing it, or must they follow through with the actions that go along with homosexuality?

In Islam, big sins and major haraam things are very clearly spelled out and defined, and that includes zina and homosexual acts/desires.

Hence, in Islam it is encouraged to get marry as long as one can afford to, one of the purposes is to protect themselves from committing unlawful sexual acts.

Do you ever wonder why only in recent years (maybe the past 30 years) it seems the number of homosexuals increased exponentially, coincided with the general moral degradation of society and the decline of religious values in many societies?

I had a good friend in college who later confessed that he'd had some same sex attraction but he believed it was a test from Allah. He was very righteous (he was even quite active in jamaat tabligh for quite some time). He decided to get married early (right after college), and he has since lived happy married life with two children.

You see that through Islam Allah provides solutions to our problems and conditions.

 

[IslamicRevival]

If God knows what's in your heart, can a gay person be punished for simply BEING gay and suppressing it, or must they follow through with the actions that go along with homosexuality?

No one is born gay, We are the sons and daughters of Adam and Eve, Not Adam and Adam (May Allah Forgive Me)

God gave us free will..two paths, the right...and the wrong one. Homosexuality is the wrong path to take.

INTENTION in Islam is important, It is what will lead us to Paradise God Willing.

If we sincerely intend to do something good and we failed to go through with it, It still counts as a good deed. If we intend to do something good and we follow thorough with it, Allah will reward us as much as he likes. If we intend to do something bad and go ahead with it, it is recorded as a sin, however, if we intend to do something sinful and do not go through with it, it is recorded as one good deed

See how Merciful Allah, The most high is? INTENTION is so important and it is the key to unlock the door to Paradise!

 

[ghost]

Islam and homosexuality

Let's look at the people of Lut (as), who were practising homosexuality in fact, were the first to do such a thing:

We also (sent) Lut: He said to his people: "Do ye commit lewdness such as no people in creation (ever) committed before you? [7-80]

"For ye practise your lusts on men in preference to women : ye are indeed a people transgressing beyond bounds." [7-81]

They were then all destroyed.

And his people gave no answer but this: they said, "Drive them out of your city: these are indeed men who want to be clean and pure!" [7-82]

But we saved him and his family, except his wife: she was of those who legged behind. [7-83]

And we rained down on them a shower (of brimstone): Then see what was the end of those who indulged in sin and crime! [7-84]

The Prophet Lut (as) even offered them his daughters (to marry):

When Our messengers came to Lut, he was grieved on their account and felt himself powerless (to protect) them. He said: "This is a distressful day." [11-77]

And his people came rushing towards him, and they had been long in the habit of practising abominations. He said: "O my people! Here are my daughters: they are purer for you (if ye marry)! Now fear God, and cover me not with shame about my guests! Is there not among you a single right-minded man?" [11-78]

They said: "Well dost thou know we have no need of thy daughters: indeed thou knowest quite well what we want!" [11-79]

They were then all destroyed.

He said: "Would that I had power to suppress you or that I could betake myself to some powerful support." [11-80]

(The Messengers) said: "O Lut! We are Messengers from thy Lord! By no means shall they reach thee! now travel with thy family while yet a part of the night remains, and let not any of you look back: but thy wife (will remain behind): To her will happen what happens to the people. Morning is their time appointed: Is not the morning nigh?" [11-81]

When Our Decree issued, We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay, spread, layer on layer,- [11-82]

Marked as from thy Lord: Nor are they ever far from those who do wrong! [11-83]

The next set of verses explain in more detail what transpired in the above set of verses, we find out that it wasn't just Lut (as) who was there, but a number of messengers including Abraham (as):

Abraham said: "What then is the business on which ye (have come), O ye messengers (of God)?" [15-57]

They said: "We have been sent to a people (deep) in sin, [15-58]

"Excepting the adherents of Lut: them we are certainly (charged) to save (from harm),- All - [15-59]

"Except his wife, who, We have ascertained, will be among those who will lag behind." [15-60]

At length when the messengers arrived among the adherents of Lut, [15-61]

He said: "Ye appear to be uncommon folk." [15-62]

They said: "Yea, we have come to thee to accomplish that of which they doubt. [15-63]

"We have brought to thee that which is inevitably due, and assuredly we tell the truth. [15-64]

"Then travel by night with thy household, when a portion of the night (yet remains), and do thou bring up the rear: let no one amongst you look back, but pass on whither ye are ordered." [15-65]

And We made known this decree to him, that the last remnants of those (sinners) should be cut off by the morning. [15-66]

The people of Lut (as) were all too happy to see these men, but for the wrong reasons:

The inhabitants of the city came in (mad) joy (at news of the young men). [15-67]

Lut said: "These are my guests: disgrace me not: [15-68]

"But fear God, and shame me not." [15-69]

They said: "Did we not forbid thee (to speak) for all and sundry?" [15-70]

He said: "There are my daughters (to marry), if ye must act (so)." [15-71]

Verily, by thy life (O Prophet), in their wild intoxication, they wander in distraction, to and fro. [15-72]

They were then all destroyed.

But the (mighty) Blast overtook them before morning, [15-73]

And We turned (the cities) upside down, and rained down on them brimstones hard as baked clay. [15-74]

Behold! in this are Signs for those who by tokens do understand. [15-75]

And the (cities were) right on the high-road. [15-76]

Behold! in this is a sign for those who believed. [15-77]

A couple of retelling of Lut's (as) people which is mentioned in later chapters of the Quran. I won't spoil the ending for you but yes, they were then all destroyed.

So also was Lut among those sent (by Us). [37-133]

Behold, We delivered him and his adherents, all [37-134]

Except an old woman who was among those who lagged behind: [37-135]

Then We destroyed the rest. [37-136]

Verily, ye pass by their (sites), by day- [37-137]

And by night: will ye not understand? [37-138]

(Abraham) said: "And what, O ye Messengers, is your errand (now)?" [51-31]

They said, "We have been sent to a people (deep) in sin;- [51-32]

"To bring on, on them, (a shower of) stones of clay (brimstone), [51-33]

"Marked as from thy Lord for those who trespass beyond bounds." [51-34]

Then We evacuated those of the Believers who were there, [51-35]

But We found not there any just (Muslim) persons except in one house: [51-36]

And We left there a Sign for such as fear the Grievous Penalty. [51-37]

The people of Lut rejected (his) warning. [54-33]

We sent against them a violent Tornado with showers of stones, (which destroyed them), except Lut's household: them We delivered by early Dawn,- [54-34]

As a Grace from Us: thus do We reward those who give thanks. [54-35]

And (Lut) did warn them of Our Punishment, but they disputed about the Warning. [54-36]

And they even sought to snatch away his guests from him, but We blinded their eyes. (They heard "Now taste ye My Wrath and My Warning." [54-37]

Early on the morrow an abiding Punishment seized them: [54-38]

"So taste ye My Wrath and My Warning." [54-39]

The story of Lut's (as) people is told quite a few times in the Quran as mentioned above. These people were practicing homosexuality and were warned about what they were doing. They continued their vile practices and were then destroyed.

Homosexuality is not just a sin in Islam, it is clearly a great sin.

It is not something which is genetic, it is a choice which people make. Let's clarify a little about genetics. My height is based on my genetics, I had no choice as to what my height was to be, it is given to me. If Allah were to say that I was 'trespassing beyond bounds' for being my height then Allah would be unjust as it is He who has given me my height in the first place - I never chose it.

And Allah is never unjust.

In the same way, if homosexuality was genetic then again Allah would be unjust. The very fact that Allah is never unjust proves that homosexuality is not genetic, it is a choice. People choose to do these things, the same way people choose to drink alcohol or commit adultery. So no, people are not born with this disease, stop trying to make up excuses to justify it.

From the points above we can conclude that if you claim that homosexulity is genetic and people are born with it, then you must also accept that Allah is unjust because he destroyed a people who didn't choose homosexuality - they were just born that way.

And I reiterate that Allah is NEVER unjust.

The media plays a ridiculously large role in this in advertising that it's ok to be gay and ok to love/marry a man, by allowing this, the media has also allowed the shaytan access to millions if not billions and clearly the people are listening to the shaytan.

The shaytan whispers, the man listens. The man listening is his choice, the shaytan cannot make man do anything.

You may have met a homosexual who is a nice person, or who you enjoy keeping company with however please remember that what they have chosen to do is a great sin (see above about the destroying etc). The same way if you keep company with a person who is committing shirk constantly, they might be a nice person however they are committing a great sin. Why encourage it? Why support it? And always think, what would the Prophet (pbuh) do if he was in your situation, and was in the company of people who commit these kinds of sins.

And this is all without even getting into STD's.

also, what the hell? I'm shocked at the response from many of the Muslims in this thread. Stop trying to justify this abomination. It is a practice that got an entire people destroyed by way of brimstone rained from the sky! Destroyed!

Destroyed! Is that not warning enough?

 

[Ramadhan]

Your exaplanation above is among the best I've seen on this topic. Simple, eloquent and yet incisive.

also, what the hell? I'm shocked at the response from many of the Muslims in this thread. Stop trying to justify this abomination. It is a practice that got an entire people destroyed by way of brimstone rained from the sky! Destroyed!

LOL. I love your verbal style

;D

 

[Salahudeen]

If God knows what's in your heart, can a gay person be punished for simply BEING gay and suppressing it, or must they follow through with the actions that go along with homosexuality?

If you have sinful desires you won't get punished if you refrain from acting upon them. You'll get rewarded instead for striving against the inpure desires.

 

[Ummu Sufyaan]

Well to stop the other thread "rip" from going too far off topic there is a new discussion about homosexuality here. So people's views?

All I can say is that I believe it's something can't be helped, that for some reason certain people have traits of the opposite sex and this leads to homosexuality. I have gay friends and they are lovely people. Has anyone against homosexuality come into contact with many gay people?

Also I would love to hear opinions of all different religions.

i think when people are against homosexuality, its more like being against their human nature/barest instincts. i believe innate in the individuals nature, is the need for survival and anything that threatens this, he/she will naturally hate/dislike, in this case homosexuality. Yes, the human race isn't short in numbers, but what if it was? what will keep the human race going? imagine that the human race was short in numbers? would we be pro homosexuality them?
who are we all going to look towards and hold accountable? who will we all fight against to keep us going? heterosexuals? i don't think so.

supporting homosexuality might as well as be supporting your death/death of your instinct to live.

 

[marwen]

i think when people are against homosexuality, its more like being against their human nature/barest instincts. i believe innate in the individuals nature, is the need for survival and anything that threatens this, he/she will naturally hate/dislike, in this case homosexuality. Yes, the human race isn't short in numbers, but what if it was? what will keep the human race going? imagine that the human race was short in numbers? would we be pro homosexuality them?
who are we all going to look towards and hold accountable? who will we all fight against to keep us going? heterosexuals? i don't think so.

supporting homosexuality might as well as be supporting your death/death of your instinct to live.

Good Point ! :thumbs_up

Imagine, if one day a giant comet strike the earth, leading to the death of all humans, except one country containing only gay people nervous . Result : We're screwed ! :skeleton:

 

[aadil77]

If you have sinful desires you won't get punished if you refrain from acting upon them. You'll get rewarded instead for striving against the inpure desires.

thats the beauty of islam, you get rewarded instead for avoiding sin

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Do you ever wonder why only in recent years (maybe the past 30 years) it seems the number of homosexuals increased exponentially, coincided with the general moral degradation of society and the decline of religious values in many societies?

Hasn't pretty much every generation witnessed complaints about the moral decline of society?

Peace

 

[Ramadhan]

Greetings,


Hasn't pretty much every generation witnessed complaints about the moral decline of society?

Peace

it maybe true, but are you aware of widespread gay marriages/gay unions/etc in every generation??

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings,


Hasn't pretty much every generation witnessed complaints about the moral decline of society?

Peace

All the ones that left a written legacy seem to have. History does repeat itself and we seldom learn from the lesson's of the past. It seems that many fallen nations had an era of permissiveness and sexual excesses in the era immediatly preceeding their down fall. While there is a strong correlation between over indulgence in sexual activities and the downfall of nations. My opinion as to causation is only my opinion. I really do not know if sexual extremes bring about the fall of nations or if the fall of nations brings about sexual extremes. I only see a correlation between the 2 and when you have one the other is very close.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

it maybe true, but are you aware of widespread gay marriages/gay unions/etc in every generation??

It depends what you mean by widespread. Homosexuality has been recorded in many societies and during many different times in history, with some examples featuring more widespread or open homosexuality than others. It is a mistake to believe that the current situation, where we apparently have many people openly engaging in homosexual relationships, is something entirely new.

All the ones that left a written legacy seem to have. History does repeat itself and we seldom learn from the lesson's of the past. It seems that many fallen nations had an era of permissiveness and sexual excesses in the era immediatly preceeding their down fall. While there is a strong correlation between over indulgence in sexual activities and the downfall of nations. My opinion as to causation is only my opinion. I really do not know if sexual extremes bring about the fall of nations or if the fall of nations brings about sexual extremes. I only see a correlation between the 2 and when you have one the other is very close.

If we restrict the discussion to homosexuality, I am not sure this is the case. Homosexuality was widely and openly practised in Ancient Greece for centuries before the downfall of that society. The first Roman emperors were almost all homosexual or bisexual, with certain types of homosexual love being widely accepted at many times during the Roman republic and beyond, and that society remained very strong for centuries after. The Han dynasty had ten openly bisexual emperors during its first two hundred years, and historically the stigma attached to homosexuality in many societies has not always existed in China, since none of its main religions considers homosexual acts to be sinful, as long as those indulging are prepared to produce heirs also.

If you would like elaborate on the correlation you see regarding the wider designation "permissiveness and sexual excesses" and societal breakdown, that would be interesting, but it may be outwith the bounds of this thread.

Peace

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings,



It depends what you mean by widespread. Homosexuality has been recorded in many societies and during many different times in history, with some examples featuring more widespread or open homosexuality than others. It is a mistake to believe that the current situation, where we apparently have many people openly engaging in homosexual relationships, is something entirely new.



If we restrict the discussion to homosexuality, I am not sure this is the case. Homosexuality was widely and openly practised in Ancient Greece for centuries before the downfall of that society. The first Roman emperors were almost all homosexual or bisexual, with certain types of homosexual love being widely accepted at many times during the Roman republic and beyond, and that society remained very strong for centuries after. The Han dynasty had ten openly bisexual emperors during its first two hundred years, and historically the stigma attached to homosexuality in many societies has not always existed in China, since none of its main religions considers homosexual acts to be sinful, as long as those indulging are prepared to produce heirs also.

If you would like elaborate on the correlation you see regarding the wider designation "permissiveness and sexual excesses" and societal breakdown, that would be interesting, but it may be outwith the bounds of this thread.

Peace

I agree that homosexuality was wide spread and lasted for centuries before the demise of the Greek and Roman empires. Homosexuality and other sexual excesses are all parts of behavior that are considered to be abnormal by the Abrahamic Faiths. It is the blatant exhibitionist character of these behaviors that seem to be the most visible at the time of a nation's collapse. There are also not so visible aspects becoming widespread such as apathy, hedonism, loss of Religious practices, and a rise in national aggressiveness. The Great empires such as Rome and Greece did not collapse by being conquered, they imploded and collapsed from within. Many things cause this and while it may be impossible to point a finger at any one cause, a visible happening is Sexual Excesses and acceptance of that which their forefathers shunned (Permissiveness). These all took place in the Roman and Greek Empires, The Courts of Charlemagne, the Reigns of the French kings, The Holy Roman Empire, and even Tsarist Russia. I can not say these are the causes or only causes of the collapse of Nations, but it does seem they do occur or increase in visibility preceding the collapse of a Nation.

 

[Woodrow]

Greetings,



It depends what you mean by widespread. Homosexuality has been recorded in many societies and during many different times in history, with some examples featuring more widespread or open homosexuality than others. It is a mistake to believe that the current situation, where we apparently have many people openly engaging in homosexual relationships, is something entirely new.



If we restrict the discussion to homosexuality, I am not sure this is the case. Homosexuality was widely and openly practised in Ancient Greece for centuries before the downfall of that society. The first Roman emperors were almost all homosexual or bisexual, with certain types of homosexual love being widely accepted at many times during the Roman republic and beyond, and that society remained very strong for centuries after. The Han dynasty had ten openly bisexual emperors during its first two hundred years, and historically the stigma attached to homosexuality in many societies has not always existed in China, since none of its main religions considers homosexual acts to be sinful, as long as those indulging are prepared to produce heirs also.

If you would like elaborate on the correlation you see regarding the wider designation "permissiveness and sexual excesses" and societal breakdown, that would be interesting, but it may be outwith the bounds of this thread.

Peace

I agree that homosexuality was wide spread and lasted for centuries before the demise of the Greek and Roman empires. Homosexuality and other sexual excesses are all parts of behavior that are considered to be abnormal by the Abrahamic Faiths. It is the blatant exhibitionist character of these behaviors that seem to be the most visible at the time of a nation's collapse. There are also not so visible aspects becoming widespread such as apathy, hedonism, loss of Religious practices, and a rise in national aggressiveness. The Great empires such as Rome and Greece did not collapse by being conquered, they imploded and collapsed from within. Many things cause this and while it may be impossible to point a finger at any one cause, a visible happening is Sexual Excesses and acceptance of that which their forefathers shunned (Permissiveness). These all took place in the Roman and Greek Empires, The Courts of Charlemagne, the Reigns of the French kings, The Holy Roman Empire, and even Tsarist Russia. I can not say these are the causes or only causes of the collapse of Nations, but it does seem they do occur or increase in visibility preceding the collapse of a Nation.

 

[Yanal]

Re: Hoctmosexuality

Well to stop the other thread "rip" from going too far off topic there is a new discussion about homosexuality here. So people's views?

All I can say is that I believe it's something can't be helped, that for some reason certain people have traits of the opposite sex and this leads to homosexuality. I have gay friends and they are lovely people. Has anyone against homosexuality come into contact with many gay people?

Also I would love to hear opinions of all different religions.

Bismillahir Rahmanir Raheem,

As-Salaamu 'Alaykum Wa Rahmatullahi,

I am not oppose to it due to the fact that they cannot resist it(them being attracted to the same sex), it is like how we are attracted to the opposite sex. We must attempt to see it from their point of view before we begin discriminating them(I am not stating that anyone is).I have come across a few in my life span,but I look at them as I would as any regular person,and in my opinion that is how everyone should act when confronted,insha'Allaah.