How do you react/feel to the suffering/deaths of non-muslims?

[TDWT]

there was a lot more I posted in that PM, which continued from this paragraph to give you a fleshed out understanding.

BUT.

You've split hairs without knowing why, AGAIN.

You Silly Boy.



Scimi

EDIT: Sharing publicly what has been sent in a PRIVATE MESSAGE - is against the rules - I'm not gonna report you this time. But you've been warned

I sent you a pm from a scholar based on your words, can you respond to it.

 

[Scimitar]

I sent you a pm from a scholar based on your words, can you respond to it.

in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi

 

[TDWT]

in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi

Ok, ready whenever you are.

 

[azc]

You don't know if he has died upon disbelief. Some people and their actions might be of a unbeliever, but he belongs to paradise and some people their actions belong to believers but they are people of hell fire. This non-Muslim friend of yours, you do not know. You cannot say well he has died and for sure he will end up in hell fire. Only Allah knows that. However what we do have FULL trust is that Allah(swt) has FOR SURE showed His signs of there being a Creator to him, before he died. So upon what state he finally has died, we do not know. Maybe still did not believe in a Creator, maybe he did believe in a Creator. That is why i said, hope for the best. More you cannot do. The people who end up in hell fire, THEY themselves will be convinced they deserve hell fire. NO human being enters hell fire if they themselves are not convinced their place is hell fire. So lets say if this friend of yours will end up in hell fire, HE HIMSELF will first be 100% convinced he deserves hell fire before entering it. However again, we cannot make the judgement he will end up in hell fire. He maybe end up in paradise and you and i end up in hell fire. This possibility also exists. So he has died, this game (life) is over, you and i are still playing this game (life) and do our best to "win" this game (ie follow the path of Islam, and get rid of arrogance and pride, be humble, have patience, not do shirk, and keep away from sins and repent if we have done sins as we sure will still do more sins in our life time but again repent).

what benefits you see in pondering over him died with or without iman..? Only Allah swt knows best.

 

[Simple_Person]

what benefits you see in pondering over him died with or without iman..? Only Allah swt knows best.

Very strange reply you have i must say. Any ways, there are some people that are questioning about how somebody died. Rather my "pondering" is rather putting us again on our place as how limited our understanding goes. Also the understanding how somebody has died or what will happen after his death, is based on what Allah already has revealed with the Qur'an and through His messenger. So it isn't always even pondering about somebody else, but also pondering about yourself.

So if i say, well if somebody dies as a unbeliever, while we KNOW that Allah will reveal His ayaat to every human being that they will have no argument on the Day of Judgement, is rather a pondering for ourselves while we are alive. Are we appreciating the ayaat of Allah? Are we appreciating the things Allah is giving us and already has given us. It is much deeper than to simply think about somebody else. For example, in the Qur'an Allah talks about hypocrites. Well a hypocrite is a hypocrite. We could say well it is not talking about me. However hypocrites have certain tendencies and thus we must reflect upon ourselves if we also meet those tendencies. If so, we should try to abolish those tendencies while Allah still has not taken our soul from this world. So ponder about the state of other people, to look at yourself. If somebody has died, well he is dead nothing to do about it anymore. However will i follow the same road? Or am i following the same road?

 

[TDWT]

in sha Allah, When I have time - it's past midnight here, and i'm just doing a little light reading and posting before bed just spent the day at speakers corner debating nutters and I'm tired bro.

Scimi

Is it alright?

 

[Scimitar]

Don't know, not checked.

TO be honest, Your issue is silly and I believe you are looking at small issues which pale in comparison to the ones you ignore.

I've got 5 PM's from you which I have not opened, the thought of reading yet more illogical nonsense which plays to emotional music is boring me, in all honesty.

in sha Allah, When I have the time and the inclination to look at them, I shall.
.
Scimi

 

[TDWT]

Don't know, not checked.

TO be honest, Your issue is silly and I believe you are looking at small issues which pale in comparison to the ones you ignore.

I've got 5 PM's from you which I have not opened, the thought of reading yet more illogical nonsense which plays to emotional music is boring me, in all honesty.

in sha Allah, When I have the time and the inclination to look at them, I shall.
.
Scimi

Sorry, only one of them deals with the response I got from the ulema, you can answer that.

As well, what am I ignoring? I seriously do want to understand if you don't mind me asking? Is it perhaps related to why humans were created?

 

[piXie]

This is related to a thread of mine I posted, but when a muslim dies/suffering, I guess there is solace that paradise is for them, but what is the case for non-muslims? Again, something I am still struggling with actually?

Allah has given you many rights and protected these rights through a system of Law (Islam). If someone abused your personal rights, according to the justice of Islam - you have the right to hold them accountable and you also have the right of choice - to forgive them. This is your right and you r not questioned or held blameworthy for excercising this choice. Infact, Allah has based mans rights Upon accountability, and He has based His :swt: rights upon forgiveness. Meaning, if we abuse the rights of man - we will be held accountable - however, if we abuse Allahs rights, He can forgive us for it if He wills. To this extent , Allah cares for and protects our rights. We get so upset when someone abuses even one of our rights. Then, what about the rights of Allaah? When someone abuses our rights, we quote our rights and call for accountability, yet when Allahs rights are abused, we struggle with the idea of accountability? The problem is, we don't recognise Allah or know WHO HE IS or believe in His justice and Mercy, we don't understand the crime of disbelieving in Him, or recognise the severity of it, this is why we struggle to accept the severe punishment of Hell.

 

[TDWT]

Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.

 

[sister herb]

Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.

You are struggling with the fact that atheists don´t get "the second change"? Two things came to my mind: what you can do for it that they would get the second change and why do you think they want the second change if they don´t believe it or expect it? Well, they don´t also wait the hell as simply they expect nothing.

 

[TDWT]

You are struggling with the fact that atheists don´t get "the second change"? Two things came to my mind: what you can do for it that they would get the second change and why do you think they want the second change if they don´t believe it or expect it? Well, they don´t also wait the hell as simply they expect nothing.

No, not atheist. I meant that is what atheist believe. I mean suffering non muslims such as maybe yazidis or christinaans in the middle east for example.

 

[Simple_Person]

No, not atheist. I meant that is what atheist believe. I mean suffering non muslims such as maybe yazidis or christinaans in the middle east for example.

Bro, you don't know what is going on. You don't know the whole picture, yet you feel sorry. Allah doesn't do injustice to no one. Shattering those communities through out the world can even be good for some among them that didn't have the courage or feared their lives if they wanted to converted to Islam or any other religion. There were many Yazidi's that worked with Saddam during the times when Saddam was killing Kurds, as Yazidi's are also Kurds and speak Kurdish language.

Don't just look at how innocent they look, Allah doesn't forget history you know. Also with many Muslims. Look at sunni-Arabs in Iraq. In the times with Saddam they were enjoying life, while he was oppressing Kurds, some sunni-Arabs and shia-Arabs, yet they not saying to the dictator what you are doing is wrong. There is MUCH more going one, but you do not know, yet you already conclude things. Don't ..there is so much that you and i don't know.

 

[piXie]

Ok, I can see what you are saying but please forgive me for being emotional. I mean for example, atheist just believe people who are suffering die and that's it, no second chances, which can be seen as a sucky way of thinking, right? With Islam, when suffering muslim dies, they get a second chance in paradise, but the fact that a non-muslim does not is something I am struggling with.

Not being able to accept something due to our emotions is not going to change the reality. It is normal to feel sadness for the disbelievers. If I remember the incident correctly , Umer :ra: cried when he saw the Christian monks who had forsaken this world for worship - knowing that they will not receive anything in the hereafter for it either - because they deviated from the true teachings of Jesus :as: and rejected Muhammad :saws: It is extremely sad. Sometimes it can even be members of our own family who r not Muslims - people that we love, like the Prophet's :saws1: uncle who helped him and gave him protection , the prophet :saws1: really wanted that his uncle and the rest of the people be saved from the hell fire - he was very concerned for them - but what can you do when someone does not listen to you. Look what he went through to offer them Jannah but they refused it.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Everyone of my Ummah will enter Jannah except those who refuse". He was asked: "Who will refuse?" He (ﷺ) said, "Whoever obeys me, shall enter Jannah, and whosoever disobeys me, refuses to (enter Jannah)".

[Al- Bukhari].

If we find it difficult to accept a reality, we should make sincere duaa to Allaah to help us, and we should seek forgiveness and guidance from Him.

 

[praisetoallah]

Not being able to accept something due to our emotions is not going to change the reality. It is normal to feel sadness for the disbelievers. If I remember the incident correctly , Umer :ra: cried when he saw the Christian monks who had forsaken this world for worship - knowing that they will not receive anything in the hereafter for it either - because they deviated from the true teachings of Jesus :as: and rejected Muhammad :saws: It is extremely sad. Sometimes it can even be members of our own family who r not Muslims - people that we love, like the Prophet's :saws1: uncle who helped him and gave him protection , the prophet :saws1: really wanted that his uncle and the rest of the people be saved from the hell fire - he was very concerned for them - but what can you do when someone does not listen to you. Look what he went through to offer them Jannah but they refused it.

Abu Hurairah (May Allah be pleased with him) reported:
Messenger of Allah (ﷺ) said, "Everyone of my Ummah will enter Jannah except those who refuse". He was asked: "Who will refuse?" He (ﷺ) said, "Whoever obeys me, shall enter Jannah, and whosoever disobeys me, refuses to (enter Jannah)".

[Al- Bukhari].

If we find it difficult to accept a reality, we should make sincere duaa to Allaah to help us, and we should seek forgiveness and guidance from Him.

It is not our right to judge others . Allah swt will do what is necessary for people who do not follow Islam. But it is my personal belief that Allah loves all those he has created even if they believe in him in a different way.

 

[Scimitar]

UNBELIEVERS: Don't believe in God - heaven, hell, angels, prophets and messengers, holy books etc - and they staunchly deny the Allah, and you want them to have a second chance?

Are you dense TWDT?

They get more than a second chance - the number of times a non believer gets opportunity and invite to Islam throughout the course of their life is innumerable - so I have no idea what you are crying about. Must be the little girl in you who wishes to paint her nails pink eh? Grow a brain, you embarrassment.

Scimi

 

[Abdullah910]

Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?

 

[TDWT]

UNBELIEVERS: Don't believe in God - heaven, hell, angels, prophets and messengers, holy books etc - and they staunchly deny the Allah, and you want them to have a second chance?

Are you dense TWDT?

They get more than a second chance - the number of times a non believer gets opportunity and invite to Islam throughout the course of their life is innumerable - so I have no idea what you are crying about. Must be the little girl in you who wishes to paint her nails pink eh? Grow a brain, you embarrassment.

Scimi

Let me elaborate. You have misunderstood me. And also, enough with the childish insults. It is very unprofessional.

What I was saying is the atheist mentality is that suffering people, muslim and non-muslim don't get a second chance and that mentality sucks right?

So I was saying, through an islamic point, people can get a second chance, right? I mean, muslims can, but the fact that non-muslims can't, is what is kind of hard of me to accept.

There

 

[TDWT]

Non-Muslims shall be thrown to hell, so why should I care about them?

There are thousands of Muslims suffering, why dont we talk about them instead? Why do we talk about the opressors only?

Not all non muslims are bad. And yes, I care for suffering people, muslim and non-muslim

 

[Scimitar]

Not all non muslims are bad. And yes, I care for suffering people, muslim and non-muslim

Where in Islam does it tell us not to care for humanity? SHOW ME!!!!

You're ignorance is astounding me.

HOW CAN YOU RELATE THE JUDGEMENT OF NON MUSLIMS IN THE AFTER LIFE TO YOUR TREATMENT OF THEM IN THIS LIFE? IS IT ALL ONE AND THE SAME TO YOUR SMALL MIND?

Honestly, you're ignorance is beyond doubt at this point. It's firmly established into your being.

Scimi