How is it possible for god not to exist??

[جوري]

To die is human it is part of the (human condition) it is the contrast by which we measure life and the quality of living-- whether or not you think there is a G-D and to question his beneficence or maleficence, is completely a separate issue.. it doesn't matter if you die in a senseless war, or out of poverty or in some pandemic, it doesn't matter if you are a rich Ba$tard who has never once contributed to charity.. Death is very just as it favors no one and discriminates against no one-- it will come whether you live in a high fortress, or in a Jurte, it will come to the inhabitants of China and those of Saskatchewan. It will come to young or old... It is a reminder, it is a always a moral of how we chose to live. A lesson to learn that we are all travelers with no exceptions, who have taken refuge under the shade of a tree, and then got on our way and off at our perspective stops!

This world isn't about permanence or security .. I realize to an Atheist it seems senseless to die, or seem like an act of iniquity.. but to those who truly reflect, in their heart they know, that this life is but the abode of suffering.. and they learn to take provisions for the road and what is to come. To them it is indeed senseless for life to be just that.. work, pay mortgage, have a family procreate and have a two month vacation and some money aside for retirement and then one day pofft drop dead!.. That is the making of a very sterile existence!

 

[hamo26]

that is a very Beatiful reflection PuretAmbriosia and it just made me think about what an atheist strives for in life. As an atheist what is your purpose within society? Wealth, women, and status will not accompany you to the grave so what other reason can an atheist have for living? Yes, it is valid to say that you wish to contriubte to a future society more advanced and prosperous than the current, yet what individual gain do you recieve for your own well being? how will honour and a place in History be beneficial to you after you have passed away and are simply a worthless heap of dirt.

In addition, many members have said that I'm using this thread as bait to convert atheists THAT IS NOT TRUE!!!I myself have just recently accepted the undeniable existance of god but I strongly belivieve that GOD will guide whom he wills, hence there is no point in attempting to convert you rather I am curious about your beliefs for the sake of knowledge.

 

[جوري]

shokran akhi:

Everyone indeed wants to contribute to the future-- I believe it was 3li ibn Abi talib who said, work in this world as if you'd live forever, prepare for the hereafter as if you were to die tomorrow... I believe Gandhi later took that line and put a spin on it...

Personally.. I find no purpose in trying to get people to see things they are obviously not going to.. I know because I was there too.. I couldn't stand the sound of any sheikh's reciting Quran, I swear to G-d, It made me think of death and darkness.. .. once your heart is closed, there is no one that can unlock it for you.. once it is open, no one can close it for you... it is between you and the lord... He knows of your heart and your intent...

The only thing that peeves me is the ridiculous questions, and provocations, I assume on some level they come here to mock, not learn and is evident just rummaging through some of the posts.. in fact I wrote this to a fellow atheist yesterday about 'why G-D?' and why his rules.. and it the whole thread was deleted, as I believe it is a fellow who came to make mischief from his style of writing, he looked like someone banned and again recycled.. It just baffles me.. why not live and let live?
Anyhow, I'll end with a note from my previous post....

why G-D?.. seems very fair for every man/woman/child/ beast to question.. thing is no one can give you their distilled version of why, they might at best bring it down to a low common denominator... to me it seems a bit foolish to ask all sorts of ancillary questions when you haven't established a base line ( in this case of G-d'S existence) ..
Assimilate this to; instead of asking a man why he choose surgery for a career path, in lieu of asking of the ritualistic practices he performs in the way of cleansing before each surgery -- why does he have to follow a silly protocol of scrubbing each finger 5 times separately with povidone-iodine then to the wrist and to the elbows if he is going to eventually double glove before giving someone a Laparoscopic Right Hemicolectomy in which case his contact with the patient is minimal at best.. what is the point of scrubbing , gowning and gloving? You see you are asking from the middle.. How would he answer that? pffft, I don't know.. possibly shrug his shoulders and move on with his life--
Same here.. you are asking from the middle.. you need to first establish if there is a G-D...
in my humble opinion there are only two choices to the question.. yes there is a G-D, no there isn't.. again I can give you the life time assessment, but I think this is a path each man goes it alone--or I can tell you one simple thing like the rapid binding of GTP to a membrane-associated protein, in heptocytes causing metabolism and decrease in intracellular glycogen stores releasing glucose into the blood amazes me..

from a cellular level, I don't believe that to be a chance happening.. Yes protein kinase A does it, not cGMP protein kinase, or tyrosine specific protein kinase, not Janus protein kinase.. no each one though sounds so sophisticated as they are indeed, are assigned a specific function and don't stray. One affects hormones, one affects smooth muscle, one affects protein synthesis...it is all tireless, flawless and around the clock.. it is also so very tiny, that unless you are looking for it, perhaps you can go a life time not knowing of it, perhaps only when one is afflicted one might wonder why is my Carbamoyl Phosphate Synthetase I deficient or mal-functioning, or why is my Ornithine Transcarbamylase missing.. but no one sits around and thinks of that... though they keep us alive and functioning, not peeing pure acid or going into a coma.. you might not care or give thanks or even consider giving a ****.. No one wakes up in the morning thinking wow thank you G-D I don't have Torsade de Pointes today... you see, we all collectively think it is physiological and the norm, but we never give much thought as to why it is the norm... Things don't just function.. the clothes won't wash themselves, anymore than dinner cooks itself and presents itself on the table for your viewing and eating pleasures... nucleotide sequences don't just assemble into perfect little functioning proteins on their own volition.

There is a thought here, and intelligent thought... I am not just talking about heart, liver or kidney.. I am talking about the universe in its entirety.. What is the probability that an unbiased coin will fall on its side? might happen, even if just fell out of pocket... but for an infinite number of coins to fall on their side neither heads or tales, well let's say as a Muslim woman, I'd have to be into magical thinking to believe it is all due to chance alone!...
Now why does G-D ask this or that from us, I feel no need to explain unless we are meeting half way, because everything comes with quite an expansive explanation...

 

[snakelegs]

Personally.. I find no purpose in trying to get people to see things they are obviously not going to.. I know because I was there too.. I couldn't stand the sound of any sheikh's reciting Quran, I swear to G-d, It made me think of death and darkness.. .. once your heart is closed, there is no one that can unlock it for you.. once it is open, no one can close it for you... it is between you and the lord... He knows of your heart and your intent...

couldn't agree more.
why do so many people seem to find it necessary to change other people instead of letting them be? (great mystery #5,179)

 

[Skywalker]

I've been reading through this thread in interest, and so far the only thing that I can't even begin to comprehend is this line:

Looking around I see no evidence of a designing hand in nature

For some reason that statement just doesn't go through my head.

 

[Gator]

I've been reading through this thread in interest, and so far the only thing that I can't even begin to comprehend is this line:

For some reason that statement just doesn't go through my head.

Yeah, its funny how we can look at the same things and come to very different conclusions.

That's why I like these type of boards. You can try to get an glimpse of other people's thought processes and possibly and insight into them.

 

[ranma1/2]

I always cringe when I see a statement challenging somebody to prove that something does not exist. On the surface that sounds like a very simple. provable statement. Yet, it is impossible to answer. We as humans do not have the means to prove that something does not exist.

Standards can be established to validate the existence of something. But, that does not hold true to prove that something does not exist. There can always be an explanation as to why something appears to exist. But, if it is not mutually accepted that is proof of existence, there is no proof shown. There are no known criteria to show that something does not exist.

I firmly believe in the existence and truth of Allah(swt). But, I can not expect somebody to prove he does not exist. The challange is for me to offer proof that He does exist. I am satisfied that I have seen sufficient evidence to convince me. But, I do know I have to accept the fact that others will view that simply as evidence and not as proof.

No person is capable of offering me proof that Allah(swt) does not exist. There is no point in my even asking such a question. My goal is better directed to establish a common means of communication and establish mutually acceptable standards of validation of proof. This comes down to being an individual task for me and strictly one to one contact, generalities are very limited.

well said. i think the phrase was
absence of evidence is not evidence of absence.

 

[جوري]

Somehow that does not sound very religious to me.
I believe that form of "Religion" is being replaced by rap singers and TV celebrities.

actually what you describe does not sound all that good.

"throw gifts at you," sounds like something an angry immature young wife would do, cause her husband said something she didn't like.


"your feet get oiled." That happens to oil field workers often. They complain about the difficulty in getting it off.

That is what I call the 'ratiocination' of someone who read a brochure and envisioned himself a connoisseur.. it happens all the time and in all circles... Even if one were to concern themselves with what is an axiomatic truth, one would see at least as far as prophet Mohammed PBUH is concerned, that has died with his armor pawned to a Jew.. Never slept on a full stomach three days in a row.. and slept on leaves that used to leave lashing marks on his body... perhaps there is a new kind of history being re-written on blogs? I'd have to call it the 'barnacle goose truth' -- but it won't cut it in history.. it is neither amusing, nor satirical.. just 'goosey' and foolish!

I suppose a couple of charismatic cultists are loose on the forum, in search of like minded enthusiasts, as I see no other purpose for this ridiculous anserine comments and behavior!

 

[S@K!N@H]

However, god can be everywhere at the same time.



-

that must mean u dnt understand god in islam. He Hears all sees all, god is not everywhere at the sametime. he has power over all things and can do as he pleases but to say god is everywhere is wrong. god is on his throne above the 7 heaves. his 99 names discribe him best,so if u really wanna learn who god is, learn and understand the deep meaning of these names and u will see
if he exists or not. and please think deeply not jst read like most people do with the quran and then they think they have understood it, when they havent even thought for second wat it means.

if im honest i think most people need god, bcoz most the things we find to be a part of human nature cum religion. how do we know not to kill or rape, all these morals came from religion. how does human nature work then without god? human nature is to believe in god and there are a few who go against their nature.

and jst to add something i really dnt understand y some people cum on this forum mocking islam when they should cum to learn and not mock.

 

[Sunni Student]

My Argument

This is a syllogysm, which is a argument, in 3 parts, if the first 2 are correct the third must logically follow, here goes...


1) Belief in God is based on Faith not proof.

2) Belief of the non-existence of a God is based on proof or the lack of it not faith.

3) Until there is proof that God doesn't exist you must have faith in God

How do the atheists reply to this?

 

[wilberhum]

My Argument

This is a syllogysm, which is a argument, in 3 parts, if the first 2 are correct the third must logically follow, here goes...


1) Belief in God is based on Faith not proof.

2) Belief of the non-existence of a God is based on proof or the lack of it not faith.

3) Until there is proof that God doesn't exist you must have faith in God

How do the atheists reply to this?

Until there is proof that flying invisible pink unicorns exist you must have faith in the FSM.

 

[ranma1/2]

My Argument

This is a syllogysm, which is a argument, in 3 parts, if the first 2 are correct the third must logically follow, here goes...

1) Belief in God is based on Faith not proof.
2) Belief of the non-existence of a God is based on proof or the lack of it not faith.
3) Until there is proof that God doesn't exist you must have faith in God

How do the atheists reply to this?

1) agree ,except id say evidence instead of proof.
2) disagree. Its just a default.
3) not sure what your saying here. But untill there is evidence in a gods existence all belief in it is faith. Or not based on evidence.

 

[Keltoi]

To my mind, athiesm, while not a religion, has many of the same characteristics. However, instead of looking to the Bible or the Qu'ran, they look to science as the authority. Science is unable to prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, so by default, unless science can prove that God exists then God does not exist. Personally, I don't find a conflict between science and God. Science studies processes and natural phenomena, while religion is concerned with the source of these processes and natural phenomena. Two different paths of study, but I believe both paths lead to the same place. Of course athiests will not agree, but there are scientists out there that do agree.

 

[wilberhum]

To my mind, athiesm, while not a religion, has many of the same characteristics. However, instead of looking to the Bible or the Qu'ran, they look to science as the authority. Science is unable to prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, so by default, unless science can prove that God exists then God does not exist. Personally, I don't find a conflict between science and God. Science studies processes and natural phenomena, while religion is concerned with the source of these processes and natural phenomena. Two different paths of study, but I believe both paths lead to the same place. Of course athiests will not agree, but there are scientists out there that do agree.

I think if you read any of the atheist reasons, you will find they are based on Philosophy not science.
They only use science to show theists that there system is based on faith and not facts and of course, regardless of what theists say, 'There is no proof". :giggling:

 

[Keltoi]

I think if you read any of the atheist reasons, you will find they are based on Philosophy not science.
They only use science to show theists that there system is based on faith and not facts and of course, regardless of what theists say, 'There is no proof". :giggling:

Be that as it may, athiests "use" science in order to counter religious beliefs, as you stated yourself. Athiests vs. theists is the point of the thread, so science will automatically become the battlefield. My overall point, which perhaps I didn't make clear enough, is that I believe many believers tend to look at science as an enemy of faith. That is a sad reality, and not necessary at all. Science actually reinforces my faith, because to me the more science uncovers about the design of nature and the universe, the more it becomes apparent that this design is anything but random. I don't expect athiests or all scientists to agree, just a personal observation.

 

[wilberhum]

Be that as it may, athiests "use" science in order to counter religious beliefs, as you stated yourself. Athiests vs. theists is the point of the thread, so science will automatically become the battlefield. My overall point, which perhaps I didn't make clear enough, is that I believe many believers tend to look at science as an enemy of faith. That is a sad reality, and not necessary at all. Science actually reinforces my faith, because to me the more science uncovers about the design of nature and the universe, the more it becomes apparent that this design is anything but random. I don't expect athiests or all scientists to agree, just a personal observation.

For the most part I agree. The exception is when a scientific conclusion is in direct conflict with a holy book. IE: Creation did not occure over some set of 24 hour periods but over billions of years. Human evolution, Etc.

 

[Uthman]

Me again.

Creation did not occure over some set of 24 hour periods but over billions of years. Human evolution, Etc.

Which holy book claims that?

Regards

 

[wilberhum]

Me again.
Which holy book claims that?
Regards

Every religion I have ever read anything about has a "Creation Story". Can you point out one that doesn't?
:giggling:

 

[جوري]

I'll have to agree with Keltoi.. science can only reinforce the faith... they are beautifully coalesced and symbiotic...

I suppose one needs to actually be immersed into both studies to see a full integration... the few Atheists on board aren't able to integrate the 'science' they know so that it would hold any intelligible meaning --to science itself, to philosophy or to simple every day living... They are running around like headless chickens... and the best any of us can hope for is a splendiferous 'you don't understand' or 'why don't you read' :lol:--
Doesn't that question go both ways?

peace!

 

[Uthman]

Every religion I have ever read anything about has a "Creation Story". Can you point out one that doesn't?
:giggling:

Sorry, I meant the '24 hour' part.