How is sharia to be implemented, in Muslim countries?

[azc]

[MENTION=19166]huzaifa[/MENTION] bin Adam : brother, will you write the views of 4 imams on this issue..?

 

[M.I.A.]

Bro @talibilm, I understand you bro.

But I also understand Bro Huzaifah.

The ayahs Huzaifah quoted, should also be understood in context. Not just read up-front. Islam came as a Mercy to Mankind. and the Prophet Muhammad :saws: did not come to curse, but as a Mercy.

he wanted to demonstrate how interpretation of Ayaats require understanding of Deen, and knowledge of context wherein it was revealed. Qur'aan and Sunnah is all we need. But we also need Fiqh, and tafsirs, so that the Muslims who are not scholars can understand. (I know you agree on that, )

Islam is not a Pacifistic Religion, but a religion of Truth and Reality. If someone stormed your house and wanted you killed, you'd defend yourself, be it by force, right?

And this whole Offensive Jihad, should be understood in context.

When you think of Offensive Jihad, you probably think of barbarians who invade countries, say "convert" if no, then slaughter, rince and repeat. Right? That isn't how it goes.

Muslims weren't barbarians, but they werent pacifists either. BUT, they wanted peace. They were not warmongers - they didn't do war just for the sake of it.

Remember when Umar R.a. stopped himself from killing a Mushrik, because he went to Jihad for the SAKE of Allah, not to pleasure himself, or to avenge in his anger? When a Mushrik spat on him R.A. he got angry, and wanted to kill him, but didn't???

In Jihad, we do it for Allah, none else. Not for ourselves.
Tafsir and Fiqh IS important.

Please correct me if I said anything wrong.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

what you talking about? within the last week ib has had...

what do you do if someone extends their hands to kill you within your own home?

....not quite a black and white answer..

probably.

..you can you even stand by that viewpoint?

the only answer is...

try it and let us know..

most people would miss and end up hitting everything else in the room.


you cant ever really pretend to be a thing.


...you know, ignorance is dangerous..

but made use of.


have fun.


i wouldnt really know these people if it were not for this bloody room.

..honestly..

even their charity seems a little..mm.. off.

you may be worried about the one eyed man but most of these people seem to work on 3.

...causes me nausia sometimes.

so il take your word for it.

tomorrow... if i get to complain..

yesterday if i got to complain!!

 

[Akeyi]

guys you know nothing i did not read what anyone wrote but i m probably right

now you can ask me 2 questions from what i wrote (not from why i am here)

first questions why did i said you that you guys know nothing ?

second question is why didn't i read what you guys wrote ?

answering these 2 question will prove that you guys know nothing and i am right and i know more than you

ANSWER: answer to the queston how to implement sharia was short. But you guys wrote long things. And that is also the answer why i didn't read what you guys wrote.

So this takes us to the third question ?

Third question is the question in the post. How to implement sharia.

So easy. Be a praesident. President is just a word. We now describe to descbribe a man who rules our country. If we can be a president we can implement sharia. But we dont have to be a president. We can be prime minister sultan padişah könig king it can be in various names. What i mean is we can be someone who rules a country to implement sharia in the country. This is the key sentence i will come back here.

Now there is probably only one question in your head. And it is why did i wrote KÖNİG ? up there.

First to prove that ich kann perfectly well deutsch.
Second is To not write Königin. Why to not write KÖNİGİN YOU MAY ASK. Because womens can't rule countries but that is another subject.

Now back to the part i said important part.

We need to be a man who rules a country to implement sharia. How to achieve that hard. But there is another way. Not coups or anything.

We can be someone who has a power in deciding how to being ruled. This is the key sentence. If you can understand it you can say that i understood it. But be aware there is no grammatical error in sentence. If you didnot understand correctly read again. It is a very important key sentence.

Now In the second way like i said. We need to have a power in deciding how to be ruled.

This gives us 2 questions.

How to have this power.
2 is democracy this ?
3 is demoracy aganist islam ?
Or what ?

Answer to first question is IT DOES NOT MATTER.

IT DOES NOT MATTER WHICH WAY OF RULING IS. BECAUSE WE WILL BE RULED LIKE WE ARE. SO WE BE LIKE WANT TO BE RULED WE WILL BE RULED LIKE WE WANTED TO BE RULED. SIMPLE AS THAT. It it is is a hadith*hadis

Now back to the where we were. Is demoracy aganist islam ? to answer to this question we need to at least you guys need to read my last question. I wrote there that it doesn't matter. I DONT MEAN IT DOESNOT MATTER IF IT IS AGANIST ISLAM. It doesn't matter if we are using demoracy. We can use any way of ruling we want. But even if we have a king who have ABSOLUTISMUS. Or even if we have a padişah. We still have real demoracy. Which is guaranteed by the hadith i mentioned.

First about gaddafi Gaddafi was a communist as far as i know. But his way of seeing democracy was more democratic than anyother state in the world .

Democracy should not give everyone a right to vote. IT IS CHAOS.

But because of i want to keep it short . And because of i want to do what i want to do. ı will keep this short.* In german will already means WANT. It is ironic.

And to answer last question WHAT IS FREEDOM

FREEDOM IS NOT

I CAN DO WHATEVER I WANT AS LONG AS I DONT HARM ANYONE.

THIS IS SLAVERY OF ŞEYTAN

FREEDOM IS

I CAN DO WHAT EVER I WANT AS LONG AS I DONT HURT ANYONE INCLUDING ME.

THAT IS THE REAL FREEDOM.

So we will be ruled as we are. Simple as that but to understand it i recommend reading this book like i recommended before but then i didnot know X

I wont explain X But that is another subject.

To implement Sharia . You can find it in book too.

And WHY IT SHOULD BE THE WAY I TEACHED. answer to this is also in this book. It is very big book but you guys should read what is your job ? read http://www.erisale.com/index.jsp?locale=en

 

[Serinity]

what you talking about? within the last week we have had...

what do you do if someone extends their hands to kill you within your own home?

....not quite a black and white answer..

probably.

..you can you even stand by that viewpoint?

the only answer is...

try it and let us know.


you cant ever really pretend to be a thing.


...you know, ignorance is dangerous..

but made use of.


have fun.


i wouldnt really know these people if it were not for this bloody room.

I'd try to stop him, call police, etc. :/

 

[Simple_Person]

And Islam does not say to go and kill people out of nowhere, even if they are kafirs. That is prohibited.

I have chatted with ISIS people, and they said that killing innocents was OK, and that killing civilians, be it your neighbours, etc. or to steal from kuffar from America, etc. Is ok.

Obviously it is not. They think since America bombs muslims, that whole America is free pass to being murdered. That all civilians are equally responsible.

They think killing civilians is ok cuz America kills Muslims. 2 wrongs doesn't make a right. And this mindset of "you kill my child, I kill your child" is contrary to Islam, and has its roots back in Jahiliyaah.

They quote the "Eye for Eye" ayaat as justification, with no understanding of it. In translation they are saying "It is ok to kill a the child of a murderer"

It is like "If I kill your child, can you kill my child?" the answer to that, is no. you can kill me. But, being vigilant is not allowed. So even if I did, you can not kill me without court, etc.

I understand you. Killing people out of nowhere, brings no peace. It is contrary to Islam. I can not fight without reason, either.

Astaghfirullah if I said anything wrong. Please correct me if I said anything wrong.

And Allah :swt: knows best.

Like i said in a different comment of mine. The state of the heart is very important. For example, when somebody is cynical, whatever you say to him he will see it as something negative. If you say to somebody who is cynical "how are you?" he will think something like this.."ooh he is asking me how i am, must be to get money from me or profit from me". This is same with hatred, if hatred has filled your heart, you are capable of everything. I have experienced hatred in my life and i took me 13 years to get rid of it and to forgive the person, even though that person is even worse kind of person than 13 years back. However i truly have forgiven that person and it is now what that person is doing between that person and Allah(swt). I know very clearly, how sick hateful feelings i had. To want to torture that person, but not let death come to that person. Rather let that person heal and again torture it. Every nail slowly pulling it out. Make that person beg for death, but do not give them that pleasure of death.

Alhamdulillah it always just stayed as something i "wished/harbored in my heart and mind" and it never took root in reality. Now ALHAMDULILLAH completely removed from my heart and mind.

So you see, if your heart has reached such a stage of PURE hatred, there are no boundaries anymore. A person will go through mountains to fulfill this hatred. For me knowing and truly having felt and understood this feeling, i understand how ISIS mentality is. They want somebody to pay for their misery and try to find ayaat and take them such out of context to fulfill their hatred. Everything is justifiable if the heart longs for it.

However, alhamdulillah knowing what forgiveness is, i also realized that this is NOT some small thing that can be achieved in ones life. Some people will remain with their hatred for the rest of their life committing even shirk because of it. The moment you know what forgiveness is, apologizing and forgiven people despite what they have done to you or you have done to them in the future becomes so easy and always a relieve of the heart.

However even saying this, not many people will understand this comment. As this i THINK is a very unique experience especially in the world of today where "being humble" is seen as a "weakness" and for "fools".

 

[M.I.A.]

I'd try to stop him, call police, etc. :/

excellent idea..

im just not going to work for him again.


....just have to...

get out of this room without losing.

 

[Serinity]

Like i said in a different comment of mine. The state of the heart is very important. For example, when somebody is cynical, whatever you say to him he will see it as something negative. If you say to somebody who is cynical "how are you?" he will think something like this.."ooh he is asking me how i am, must be to get money from me or profit from me". This is same with hatred, if hatred has filled your heart, you are capable of everything. I have experienced hatred in my life and i took me 13 years to get rid of it and to forgive the person, even though that person is even worse kind of person than 13 years back. However i truly have forgiven that person and it is now what that person is doing between that person and Allah(swt). I know very clearly, how sick hateful feelings i had. To want to torture that person, but not let death come to that person. Rather let that person heal and again torture it. Every nail slowly pulling it out. Make that person beg for death, but do not give them that pleasure of death.

Alhamdulillah it always just stayed as something i "wished/harbored in my heart and mind" and it never took root in reality. Now ALHAMDULILLAH completely removed from my heart and mind.

So you see, if your heart has reached such a stage of PURE hatred, there are no boundaries anymore. A person will go through mountains to fulfill this hatred. For me knowing and truly having felt and understood this feeling, i understand how ISIS mentality is. They want somebody to pay for their misery and try to find ayaat and take them such out of context to fulfill their hatred. Everything is justifiable if the heart longs for it.

However, alhamdulillah knowing what forgiveness is, i also realized that this is NOT some small thing that can be achieved in ones life. Some people will remain with their hatred for the rest of their life committing even shirk because of it. The moment you know what forgiveness is, apologizing and forgiven people despite what they have done to you or you have done to them in the future becomes so easy and always a relieve of the heart.

However even saying this, not many people will understand this comment. As this i THINK is a very unique experience especially in the world of today where "being humble" is seen as a "weakness" and for "fools".

Exactly!!

Say, a heart, who is filled with hate and anger. he will see the world through "that". he will read the Quran through that.

A Islam hater, who hates Islam, will read the Quraan and not believe in it. A hateful person will read the Quraan and justify his wrongdoing by it.

Allah guides whom He wills, and knows our hearts. So if one seeks misguidance, he will get that.

you remind me SOO much of "Hate Racism". A guy who said the exact same thing you just said.

If someone is full of hatred, no matter what you say to him. he will still be full of hatred.

So it is not the minds there is something wrong with - but the hearts.

Like a person who sees all the signs of Truth (Haqq- Islam) and etc. But the moment some falsehood is shown to him, he adopts it as a way. But when truth is shown to him. he stands confused (can't see) There is an ayat that speaks of this.

However, here is an ayaat:

I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

https://quran.com/7/146

I don't COMPLETELY know if this ayat speaks of this, but I wanted to share it.

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Brother, read the comment of brother talibilm, careful. He has NOT claimed such a thing. His argument is, we must follow Qur'an and Sunnah and if there is no clear ruling or understanding of something we resort to the fiqh of the scholars. Which is indeed how it is. While you it looks like seem to understand that brother talibilm is saying..no fiqh is needed whatsoever, while he is not saying that. Laymen such as me, i often try to understand something first then i resort to what scholars have said about it. Often my own general understanding is close, but after reading what scholars have said about it i even obtain more understanding of it. My BASIC principle is ISLAM = Peace. So if my understanding would say..go kill people out of nowhere without any context or whatsoever, that means it is being contradictory to the BASIC principle of Islam = peace even to the fitrah of the human being is being contradictory.

I want him to reply, to clearly state what exactly his viewpoint is. Does he believe that a layman should follow a Madh-hab or does he believe that for a layman to follow a Madh-hab is unnecessary, or possibly even impermissible.

One point at a time.

 

[Simple_Person]

Exactly!!

Say, a heart, who is filled with hate and anger. he will see the world through "that". he will read the Quran through that.

A Islam hater, who hates Islam, will read the Quraan and not believe in it. A hateful person will read the Quraan and justify his wrongdoing by it.

Allah guides whom He wills, and knows our hearts. So if one seeks misguidance, he will get that.

you remind me SOO much of "Hate Racism". A guy who said the exact same thing you just said.

If someone is full of hatred, no matter what you say to him. he will still be full of hatred.

So it is not the minds there is something wrong with - but the hearts.

Like a person who sees all the signs of Truth (Haqq- Islam) and etc. But the moment some falsehood is shown to him, he adopts it as a way. But when truth is shown to him. he stands confused (can't see) There is an ayat that speaks of this.

However, here is an ayaat:

I will turn away from My signs those who are arrogant upon the earth without right; and if they should see every sign, they will not believe in it. And if they see the way of consciousness, they will not adopt it as a way; but if they see the way of error, they will adopt it as a way. That is because they have denied Our signs and they were heedless of them.

https://quran.com/7/146

I don't COMPLETELY know if this ayat speaks of this, but I wanted to share it.

Jazakallahu khairan for sharing that aya. When i embraced Islam in the beginning, i understood very little of many things. And laughing about it now, but the aya that you are referring to is what i mean. At first you know the people who have come back to Islam and now truly have their eyes opened. You as such a person try to show other people that exact same thing, yet they don't see it. You become all frustrated hahaha of how in the world can't they see it. It is like a situation with a child you try to keep him walking straight forward, but every time he deviates from that path going left and right. In case of the misguided when they even LISTEN very careful and try to understand you and what you are saying, something prevents them from understanding what you are trying to say.

If i for some kind of purpose use example as this ..a house has four walls to support the roof having balbalbl and then finishing my example, the reply is often something like this "But what about the windows?..A house should have windows right?" And you think this guy is screwing with me, but they seriously are genuinely asking for that. Which reminds me of this aya.

They will say there were three, the fourth of them being their dog; and they will say there were five, the sixth of them being their dog - guessing at the unseen; and they will say there were seven, and the eighth of them was their dog. Say, [O Muhammad], "My Lord is most knowing of their number. None knows them except a few. So do not argue about them except with an obvious argument and do not inquire about them among [the speculators] from anyone." Qur'an 18:22

They are so preoccupied with the most UNIMPORTANT thing of the whole example and because of that COMPLETELY miss the point you are trying to make. This was at first very frustrating for me to be honest but later on it became rather a relieve for me as my understanding of the deen became better. As when you encounter such people, you very QUICKLY wrap it up. Which remind me of this aya.

"Indeed, Allah is not timid to present an example - that of a mosquito or what is smaller than it. And those who have believed know that it is the truth from their Lord. But as for those who disbelieve, they say, "What did Allah intend by this as an example?" He misleads many thereby and guides many thereby. And He misleads not except the defiantly disobedient," Qur'an 2:26

Which is a indication that the person you are trying to have da'wah with is a very dishonest person when it comes to truth. So wrap it up and don't make it too long. The honest people but not Muslims will be able to follow your reasoning much better, with those you can have a honest discussion without beating around the bush. These honest people you also have very respectful discussions despite them for example being anti-Islam because of misconceptions.

 

[Serinity]

Yeah, these ayats HELPED me a ton, in lessening my burdens of "WHY DON'T PEOPLE SEE?"

These ayaats answers it all. Before that I was like: "How can't people see how they, themselves, are a miracle? speaking of intelligent design, won't you say, you, yourself, are an intelligent being? How can Ignorance bring about intelligence? it can not. Therefore, the only one, who could create us, is an All-knowing one, Allah."

To create the universe, requires intelligence, and consciousness. It now makes sense that there are people who don't even acknowledge the most obvious of signs.

Islam doesn't just teach us how to think, but how to ask the RIGHT questions at the right time. Like, if we have math, to ask "With what kind of force are you pushing the pen against the whiteboard? What is the density of your body?" lol. completely silly.

Going back to what I said. Take the eye, By Allah, not in a million years, could our eyes have come by chance. Yet people somehow think it came by chance. I can not understand that.

 

[Scimitar]

To be HONEST, it would not even surprise me if they would indeed have said such a thing. The things they have done and i also have had the opportunity to talk to one of them for sure. Sub'han'Allah......:O. I asked that ISIS-guy, what does Islamic Law say, if i kill your son? He replied, then i can kill your son. (eye for an eye, tooth for a tooth). I said, DUDE..i would have killed an innocent soul, what has my son to do with MY criminal act? he said, no i have studied sharia law, it is like this.

I fell off my chair Too funny.

He's studied a shariah - but it looks like Christian shariah

Scimi

 

[talibilm]

Brother, read the comment of brother talibilm, careful. He has NOT claimed such a thing. His argument is, we must follow Qur'an and Sunnah and if there is no clear ruling or understanding of something we resort to the fiqh of the scholars. Which is indeed how it is. While you it looks like seem to understand that brother talibilm is saying..no fiqh is needed whatsoever, while he is not saying that. Laymen such as me, i often try to understand something first then i resort to what scholars have said about it. Often my own general understanding is close, but after reading what scholars have said about it i even obtain more understanding of it. My BASIC principle is ISLAM = Peace. So if my understanding would say..go kill people out of nowhere without any context or whatsoever, that means it is being contradictory to the BASIC principle of Islam = peace even to the fitrah of the human being is being contradictory.

Wr wb

Jazkallah for your right understanding , how could we completely ignore those esteemed pious Imaams when I myself mostly follow the hanafi fiqh . At the same time following them also means avoiding what they urged us to avoid like say leaving their fatwa if goes against any Authentic hadith . We see many boast to follow Imaam Hanifa but how many hanafis follow him exactly ? when Hanafi Imaam has told us not to call Allah except by Allah himself alone !!!


But Allah has blessed us with all hadiths at our finger tips UNLIKE those imaams who should have worked Much Much harder from handwritten books to find them on various subjects and still could not have found them all imho.

 

[Scimitar]

Implementing shariah in Muslim nations

How to do this?

Gradually

Scimi

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

In reply to brother talibilm:

Okay. So, you follow the Hanafi Madh-hab for the most part, but when you come across a Hadeeth which you feel is in conflict with the Hanafi Madh-hab, you follow that Hadeeth. Correct? Then, my question is:

Do you think that, in any issue of Deen, there is only one Hadeeth? Let me explain that:

The Hanafi Madh-hab says that the Musalli should fold his hands below his navel. Right? Now, you opened an English translation of Saheeh al-Bukhaari, and there, you perhaps came across a Hadeeth which mentions folding the hands on the chest, so now you say: "I'm going to follow the Hadeeth and reject the Hanafi Madh-hab's view on this issue."

Meanwhile, you are unaware that the view of the Hanafi Madh-hab on where to fold the hands is based on a different Hadeeth which says that the hands should be folded below the navel. This is something many people don't understand: "Why follow Imaam Abu Haneefah/Maalik/Shaafi`i/Ahmad when there is a Hadeeth which says X?" Well, that's because there's also another Hadeeth that says A, another that says B, another that says C, another that says Y and another that says Z. So which Hadeeth are you going to follow? The Ahaadeeth in Saheeh al-Bukhaari are not the only Hadeeth. Imaam al-Bukhaari himself mentioned, when compiling that Kitaab, that the Saheeh Ahaadeeth which he left out are MUCH more than those which he put in. Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal memorised one million Ahaadeeth. Saheeh al-Bukhaari contains roughly 7,000. So, it is an erroneous belief in the minds of many people that, the Ahaadeeth in Bukhaari are all the Ahaadeeth which exists. That is not the case.

So, coming back to the point:

Now, for example, you have a Hadeeth which says fold the hands below the navel, another that says above the navel, another that says on the chest, etc. How do you know which one to follow? You are not a Muhaddith, and thus you cannot grade which Hadeeth is stronger than which. In Usool-ul-Fiqh, there is what you could call a "legal maxim", which is: Talaqqi bil-Qabool of the Fuqahaa. To put it in plain English, it means that the grading of a Faqeeh (like Imaams Abu Haneefah, Maalik, ash-Shaafi`ee, Ahmad) overrides the grading of the later Muhadditheen like Imaams al-Bukhaari, Muslim, Abu Daawud, at-Tirmidhee, an-Nasaa'i, ibn Maajah, at-Tabaraani, ibn Hajr al-`Asqalaani, az-Zayla`i, etc.

So, there is a Hadeeth in Bukhaari which says that the hands should be folded on the chest, but Imaam Abu Haneefah (who lived during the time when 17 Sahaabah were still alive) had a Hadeeth which said that the hands should be folded below the navel, and he graded this Hadeeth as being authentic. Why, then, should a person follow the Hadeeth Imaam al-Bukhaari quotes and grades as authentic over the Hadeeth Imaam Abu Haneefah quotes and grades as authentic? Remember the legal maxim: "Talaqqi bil-Qabool". Imaam Abu Haneefah (born 80 A.H.) , being a Faqeeh, overrides Imaam al-Bukhaari (born 194 A.H.).

When Imaam al-Bukhaari narrates a Hadeeth, he might have 6-7 people in that chain before reaching Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم. On the other hand, Imaam Abu Haneefah met some of the Sahaabah, like Hadhrat Anas ibn Maalik رضي الله عنه, for example. So, just look at this logically:

Imaam Abu Haneefah narrates a Hadeeth from Hadhrat Anas رضي الله عنه. So it's: "Abu Haneefah, from Anas ibn Maalik, from Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم."

See how short that chain is? Now compare that to a chain Imaam al-Bukhaari quotes:

"Yahyaa ibn Bukayr narrated to us, saying: al-Layth narrated to us, from `Uqayl, from ibn Shihaab, from `Urwah ibn az-Zubayr, from `Aa'ishah, Umm-ul-Mu'mineen, that she said:"

That's one example of a Sanad of Imaam al-Bukhaari. So, Imaam al-Bukhaari for example has 4-5 people between him and the Sahaabi, whereas in some cases, Imaam Abu Haneefah heard directly from a Sahaabi, who heard from Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم. Can you see the difference? Now whose Hadeeth should be followed, do you think, if both quote a Hadeeth on a certain topic?

Secondly:

The statement of the A'immah that if the Hadeeth is authentic, follow the Hadeeth and throw their Madh-hab against the wall, was directed at their students, who were Mujtahideen themselves. It was not directed at people who cannot even speak Arabic. If a person cannot speak Arabic, then he cannot understand the Qur'aan; instead, he has to rely on some human being's interpretation of an Aayah, which he puts into an "English Translation", and this person then has to read that and try to learn from there.

Read this thread to see what are the requirements of being an `Aalim:

https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-knowledge/134342572-taalib-ul-ilm.html

If someone like Einstein were to have said that, if anyone can come across an error in his works, they should correct it, then he is directing that statement towards people who are specialists in the fields he was. He is not directing that statement at a child who has not yet learnt how to count, who has not yet learnt that 1+1=2. If this child were to think that he can correct Einstein based on his being unable to understand something Einstein mentioned, and so he thinks he's found a "mistake", would you take him seriously? Similarly, a person who has not studied the ABCs of `Ilm, who doesn't have the most basic requisite, which is fluency in Arabic, thinking he can "correct" the A'immah of the past - who were giants in the Deen - is exactly the same.

May Allaah Ta`aalaa grant all of us the correct understanding, Aameen.

والسلام

 

[talibilm]

Inshallah will try to address to all the points (as soon as am free inshallah) raised here some of which I deem as reasonable and some not and there is a way out in Deen which Allah has planned it untill the last days of the world .

Deen , The way of Life IF could not be practically implemented with ease ( Allah says that he want ease the deen for us in the noble Quran) in NO DEEN AT ALL. Allah the All wise in his Noble Quran and his Prophet : saws: have left reminders, tips that would guide whoever in the Muslim ummah who ever STRIVES ( fikr, jihad ) for it . Do not make islam so Rigid and a make a MONOPOLY that NONE except a Scholar can follow it or else the target of Islam to be a Deen of the world will be lost.

SOME OF UMMAH WILL STAY IN RIGHT PATH [Muslim 1920]
Sayyidina Thawban (RA) reported that Allah’s Messenger (SAW) said, “I fear for the misled rulers over my ummah.’ He also said, “A section of my ummah will never cease to be on the right. They will prevail and they will not be harmed by those who desert them till the command of Allah comes.”

Note : But imho these will be those who never associate to any Sect but called themselves as just a Muslim as in signature in Ummah, INSHALLAH

 

[Huzaifah ibn Adam]

Definitely a person should not attribute himself to any "sect". However, the four Madhaahib are not "sects". That is a major misconception a lot of people have. They are four "schools of thoughts". Four "understandings" of Qur'aan and Sunnah. Do you know what "Madh-hab" means? It's derived from the verb ذهب يذهب, which means "to go". "Madh-hab" is Ism Zharf, and literally means "a place of going", or, to put it in plain English: "A go-to place." So what does "a go-to place" mean in this context? It means that, when you look at an Aayah of the Qur'aan or a Hadeeth of Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم, you will need to properly understand that Aayah or that Hadeeth. You cannot rely on your own understanding, because our understanding and intellect is limited. Instead, we rely on the understanding of the Salaf as-Saaliheen of this Ummah. So, we then "go-to" the Madh-hab in order to obtain the correct understanding of this Aayah or this Hadeeth. Thus, the Madh-hab is the "go-to place". The Madh-hab is not a religion, or a cult, or a sect, or a different version of Islaam. It is simply an understanding of the Qur'aan and the Sunnah.

والسلام

 

[talibilm]

If I am so ignorant to know difference between Madhab and sect than I have no reason or right to touch on this subject , kindly refer to my post about Madhab or i shall paste it if i could locate it here or in ummah Inshallah.

Let me free myselves from my commitments to my family inshallah which is also an ibadah and shall reply whatever i know as taking part like a Mashoora for Deen. Let all the knowledgeables take part towards this issue Let Be bro [MENTION=31950]Scimitar[/MENTION] or [MENTION=11215]simple[/MENTION] person be the amir or whoever sincere .

 

[talibilm]

Its found here in post # 31 inshallah

https://www.islamicboard.com/aqeedah/134342931-maddhab-follow-7.html

 

[Scimitar]

That thread died bro, Alhamdulillah.

The hadeeth "islam began as something strange..." kinda killed that whole thread due to this post presenting a curve ball. It was answered here. And ended here. And that was the end of that thread

Scimi

 

[talibilm]

In reply to brother talibilm:

Okay. So, you follow the Hanafi Madh-hab for the most part, but when you come across a Hadeeth which you feel is in conflict with the Hanafi Madh-hab, you follow that Hadeeth. Correct? Then, my question is:

Do you think that, in any issue of Deen, there is only one Hadeeth? Let me explain that:

The Hanafi Madh-hab says that the Musalli should fold his hands below his navel. Right? Now, you opened an English translation of Saheeh al-Bukhaari, and there, you perhaps came across a Hadeeth which mentions folding the hands on the chest, so now you say: "I'm going to follow the Hadeeth and reject the Hanafi Madh-hab's view on this issue."

Meanwhile, you are unaware that the view of the Hanafi Madh-hab on where to fold the hands is based on a different Hadeeth which says that the hands should be folded below the navel. This is something many people don't understand: "Why follow Imaam Abu Haneefah/Maalik/Shaafi`i/Ahmad when there is a Hadeeth which says X?" Well, that's because there's also another Hadeeth that says A, another that says B, another that says C, another that says Y and another that says Z. So which Hadeeth are you going to follow? The Ahaadeeth in Saheeh al-Bukhaari are not the only Hadeeth. Imaam al-Bukhaari himself mentioned, when compiling that Kitaab, that the Saheeh Ahaadeeth which he left out are MUCH more than those which he put in. Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal memorised one million Ahaadeeth. Saheeh al-Bukhaari contains roughly 7,000. So, it is an erroneous belief in the minds of many people that, the Ahaadeeth in Bukhaari are all the Ahaadeeth which exists. That is not the case.

So, coming back to the point:

Now, for example, you have a Hadeeth which says fold the hands below the navel, another that says above the navel, another that says on the chest, etc. How do you know which one to follow? You are not a Muhaddith, and thus you cannot grade which Hadeeth is stronger than which. In Usool-ul-Fiqh, there is what you could call a "legal maxim", which is: Talaqqi bil-Qabool of the Fuqahaa. To put it in plain English, it means that the grading of a Faqeeh (like Imaams Abu Haneefah, Maalik, ash-Shaafi`ee, Ahmad) overrides the grading of the later Muhadditheen like Imaams al-Bukhaari, Muslim, Abu Daawud, at-Tirmidhee, an-Nasaa'i, ibn Maajah, at-Tabaraani, ibn Hajr al-`Asqalaani, az-Zayla`i, etc.

So, there is a Hadeeth in Bukhaari which says that the hands should be folded on the chest, but Imaam Abu Haneefah (who lived during the time when 17 Sahaabah were still alive) had a Hadeeth which said that the hands should be folded below the navel, and he graded this Hadeeth as being authentic. Why, then, should a person follow the Hadeeth Imaam al-Bukhaari quotes and grades as authentic over the Hadeeth Imaam Abu Haneefah quotes and grades as authentic? Remember the legal maxim: "Talaqqi bil-Qabool". Imaam Abu Haneefah (born 80 A.H.) , being a Faqeeh, overrides Imaam al-Bukhaari (born 194 A.H.).

Though we are moving away from the Topic of this thread but let this doubt be discussed

The Point or gist made here is iow Can we be a ghair Muqqalidh ? right ?

ITS TRUE finding which hadith is the stronger will be debateable BUT not the Priority of a hukm is it about a Fard, a wajib,a sunnah muakkadha, sunna ghair Muakkadha, a Musthahab, a nafl etc which will be quite easier .

But as i have posted in post here in post # 31 Which Maddhab do you follow? we can follow any Imaam of a different Madhab and pray our Salah because THE DIFFERENCES are MOSTLY not in the matter of fard acts leaving which invalidates a salah but in the lesser ones so which will not invaildate our prayer. Then your question of where keep to your hands as in hanafi or as in shafi over the chest or even maliki (or hambal) they never even fold their hands or keep any where at all. but keep them hanging straight (as in the attention pose of a soldier) for me is not a matter to be wrestled about since Prophet :saws: did by all those methods but I have followed even them (maliki)and prayed as a follower (Muqtadi in salah) since there is no dispute on the fard acts of salah even between us.

So this question of fiqh (understanding) should never be an issue and so called Ghair Muqqalidh should never be seen as Ghair muslim by Muqqalids ( some jahils do that ) But even learned muslims wrestle in such matters of secondary importance as these and rafaydain etc which exhausts our stamina arguing and there is no stamina left to talk about Haram or Halal or other important issues.

When Imaam al-Bukhaari narrates a Hadeeth, he might have 6-7 people in that chain before reaching Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم. On the other hand, Imaam Abu Haneefah met some of the Sahaabah, like Hadhrat Anas ibn Maalik رضي الله عنه, for example. So, just look at this logically:

Imaam Abu Haneefah narrates a Hadeeth from Hadhrat Anas رضي الله عنه. So it's: "Abu Haneefah, from Anas ibn Maalik, from Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم."

See how short that chain is? Now compare that to a chain Imaam al-Bukhaari quotes:

"Yahyaa ibn Bukayr narrated to us, saying: al-Layth narrated to us, from `Uqayl, from ibn Shihaab, from `Urwah ibn az-Zubayr, from `Aa'ishah, Umm-ul-Mu'mineen, that she said:"

That's one example of a Sanad of Imaam al-Bukhaari. So, Imaam al-Bukhaari for example has 4-5 people between him and the Sahaabi, whereas in some cases, Imaam Abu Haneefah heard directly from a Sahaabi, who heard from Rasoolullaah صلى الله عليه وسلم. Can you see the difference? Now whose Hadeeth should be followed, do you think, if both quote a Hadeeth on a certain topic?

Again I reiterate such issues will be in less than secondary matters if any such thing in fard actions kindly point it out with which hadiths and its sanad .

Even if there such matter of Fards with such differences ( which to my knowledge is not there ) except a very few things than we try to follow the safer one without doubts will be our Criterian.

Except in a very few matters of invalidation of wudu like in my own example myself being a hanafi but my wife being Shafi in the matter of touching each other which invalidates the wudu in shafi even i try to follow that as much as possible but if i forget i do not do my wudu again since we see authentic hadith Prophet :saws: touching Aisha RA and the Noble Quran is clear cut too on touching .

Secondly:

The statement of the A'immah that if the Hadeeth is authentic, follow the Hadeeth and throw their Madh-hab against the wall, was directed at their students, who were Mujtahideen themselves. It was not directed at people who cannot even speak Arabic. If a person cannot speak Arabic, then he cannot understand the Qur'aan; instead, he has to rely on some human being's interpretation of an Aayah, which he puts into an "English Translation", and this person then has to read that and try to learn from there.

Read this thread to see what are the requirements of being an `Aalim:

https://www.islamicboard.com/-ilm-knowledge/134342572-taalib-ul-ilm.html

Bro I follow ONLY imaam Hanifa because of his takwa and being tabieen so that's why his statement will be applicable to all his followers . Where did Imam Hanifa say this is only for my students who are alive now ? (90 AH) We are also his students when we are trying to follow his fiqh so its directed to us all . If we cannot throw his fatwa OUT when it CLEARLY contradicts the Noble Quran and hadith then we succumb to the verse ''They took their priests & monks as rab ......''

So following it practically what I claimed, i tried much to find did Imam Hanifa declared Crab as Haram ? or was it from his students ?? (can you reply please bro Huzaifa)

So when seafood is pure as per hadith and the noble quran I did voluntarily ate THE SEA CRAB (not the land ones) since i do not want to obey any Haram or halal commandments except from Allah and through his Nabi :saws: though some say its because of Crab's Fangs but the basic criteria of sea from the Noble quran comes first. We know even Habibullah Prophet :saws: was admonished for his personal likes,dislikes and calling them a haram in the noble quran

If someone like Einstein were to have said that, if anyone can come across an error in his works, they should correct it, then he is directing that statement towards people who are specialists in the fields he was. He is not directing that statement at a child who has not yet learnt how to count, who has not yet learnt that 1+1=2. If this child were to think that he can correct Einstein based on his being unable to understand something Einstein mentioned, and so he thinks he's found a "mistake", would you take him seriously? Similarly, a person who has not studied the ABCs of `Ilm, who doesn't have the most basic requisite, which is fluency in Arabic, thinking he can "correct" the A'immah of the past - who were giants in the Deen - is exactly the same.

May Allaah Ta`aalaa grant all of us the correct understanding, Aameen.

والسلام

Your statement bolded above CONTRADICTS the last sermon of Prophet :saws: which i believe the STRONGEST among hadith with 10,000's of witnesses

'' All those who listen to me shall pass on my words to others and those to others again; and may the last ones understand my words better than those who listened to me directly. Be my witness, O Allah, that I have conveyed your message to your people

Note : But I do not know for sure are we the last ones ?? since Allah has given us ONLINE hadiths at finger tips to search a few or & find just 10's or 100's of hadith about a single topic from more than about 30,000 hadiths which would have been hard for our predecessors. similarly the Quran Corpus - word to word translation are better from some translations of certain translators in certain different verses is what i found in experience. allahu aalam.