How one can fight for secular society and freedom of worship at the same time

No, there are no "multiple meanings" of it but rather what someone might think it means. I did not "conjure" whatever it is you are imagining. I merely stated my opinion secularism as a philosophical program and mentioned that "secularism" and a "secular government" are not necessarily the same. So please calm down.

I did not mean to cause an argument!

Hulk is right that secularism and a secular government do not necessarily go hand and hand. A government may not be based on any religious principles and yet society could still be dominated by religion depending on the amount of political consolidation. But anyway...

By secularism I mean that the public space should not be organized along religious lines. Now, I do not mean that religion should be absent for society. People should have the right to practice their religion (or lack thereof) and part of that means not excluding it from the public space. Just that the ordering principles of the public space should not be decided by any specific religion. In fact, I think it is advantageous for a society to have a healthy amount of religious people. I think the United States benefits from having people from many different religions.

Of course secular could describe someone individually, I am secular myself.
 
The original poster has not as of yet accepted that it is his desire that atheism/Godlessness is the only a accepted only way of life in the political sphere and in the social sphere.
That to Muslims IS satanism. We are told throughout the Quran that it is the desire of Satan to divert us from the path of Allah - which makes him an ADVOCATE of the devil, please forgive me if u feel offended by my lack of beating around the bush, it took a lot of knocks and bumps for me to wake up and cut the crap, I have come to the realisation that we are under attack and Obama has proven (even recently) that this is not about "terrorism" and his and his types' lies about "this is not a war against Islam" have been made evident from the recent events in Egypt.

Whereas a Muslim understands that right and wrong are not equal, only people living in an Orwellian fantasy believe them to be so.

The main foundation of secularism is absence of God.
And the term atheist means without God or no God, so to try to sell their satanism as "neutrality" is an insult to our intelligence.

The ideals, aspirations and way of life in Islam are available to everyone alike, there is no hidden agenda or swerving from fundamental rights and duties.
There are no Islamic books that are "top secret" or "only for people with security clearances.

France is a relevant example of how "secularism" (atheism) seeks to remove any faith or even acceptance of God's laws and commands. It is all deceptively done in the name of "neutrality.
Their tremendous schemes and plots are hidden behind the veil of "national security" - making possession of their dossiers a heavily punishable crime for the average citizen or foreigner alike. Their ideals are shaped by racism (preference of ones own tribe over all others regardless of right or wrong).

قالَ ما مَنَعَكَ أَلّا تَسجُدَ إِذ أَمَرتُكَ ۖ قالَ أَنا۠ خَيرٌ مِنهُ خَلَقتَنى مِن نارٍ وَخَلَقتَهُ مِن طينٍ

(Allah) said: \"What prevented thee from prostrating when I commanded thee?\" He said: \"I am better than he: Thou didst create me from fire, and him from clay.\"

Quran 7:12

Islam on the other hand differentiates based on one's conduct regardless of which tribe someone belongs to.
There is no "tribesman is given preference to foreigner" just because he happens to live on the other side of a border drawn by men.

Again, to push secularism/atheism/satanism in the name of neutrality is an INSULT to the intelligence of anyone who cares to put down their bottle of intoxicating liquor, wear some decent clothes, turn down the volume blaring lady gaga's degeneratin mind control - and consider.

Also, I noted that the original poster decided to continue with the word "religion" despite being given the meaning of the term used by Muslims which is "deen" (way of life).
Since you're on a board trying to push Muslims to accept atheism as their "way of life", it would be more proper to use the terms that best describe their system of governance and not the utterly confusing, meaningless term that only adds to the confusion already thrown in.

Pharaoh's (who was very "secular") pen does not dictate the way of life to one who accepts God as Creator and Lawmaker. (The two have always and will always clash - and one shall ultimately prevail).
Neither does that of bush, Mubarak, Obama, Blair or Cameron.

وَلَقَد كَتَبنا فِى الزَّبورِ مِن بَعدِ الذِّكرِ أَنَّ الأَرضَ يَرِثُها عِبادِىَ الصّٰلِحونَ

And before this We wrote in the Psalms, after the Reminder (given to Moses): My servants the righteous, shall inherit the earth.\"

إِنَّ فى هٰذا لَبَلٰغًا لِقَومٍ عٰبِدينَ

Verily in this is a Message for people who would (truly) Serve.

Quran 21:104-105

Does anyone wonder why it is always the despots and criminals who have a vested interest in controlling people via outright lies and subjugating them to their own will - who have no huge problem with anything BUT Islam?


Peace be to those who follow the Guidance.
 
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So if someone says that they reject Islam because "Islam is racist against blacks.", based on his understanding from what he read somewhere. You would agree that what he is rejecting is really Islam?

Then he's rejecting something else than what you and I mean by "Islam". Just like you are rejecting something else than Mr. Warrior means by "secularism".
 
I am posting this here because the forum will not let me post on my introduction thread because I am a newbie, even
though I was the one who started that thread!

This is in response to Signor and Eric H.


Thank, I am glad you have enjoyed reading my post. In regards to the issues I am fighting for I will explain.

I fight for secularism because I do not believe people should be forced to live according to someone else's religious values. This does not mean that I am against people practicing a religion. In fact, I think it is a good thing. I am not religious myself but I've studied some decent works by political scientists on the subject. On of the best is Robert Putnam's "Bowling Alone" which asserts that it is a good thing for citizens of a country to belong to several different civil society organizations (churches or mosques could be one). By engaging in activities with other citizens they are able to build civil trust and reinforce the sense of community. I also think the United States benefits from having people of many different religious backgrounds because then there are multiple perspectives and points of view which will make the United States stronger.

When I fight for the rights of Muslims, Christians, etc. to be able to practice their religion it is not because I want people to become members of these religions. It is because I believe people should have the right to practice the religion they want to without fear of harassment. In the United States there have been a couple of times when Muslims in a community wanted to build a center and the local population tried to stop them, Murfeesboro was one case. When that happened I wrote letters to the local representatives. I think Muslims should be able to practice freely in Christian countries, and that Christians should practice freely in Muslim countries. Also, from reading the posts on here I know that some people do not like Shia very much and I do not want to offend but I think that Shia should be free to practice and worship in Sunni countries (and of course, Sunni should be free to practice in Shia countries). I guess what I am fighting for is freedom of worship.

I hope that helps explain things.
The practicing of religious freedom is permissible under an Islamic state, the christians and the jews even had their own courts, which muslims definitely don't have today in Europe or in the USA.

Secularism is Haram.
Secularism is not just haram, it's kufr. Because, the secularist prefers the opinion of the majority over the opinion of Allah. That's why you can't call yourself a "muslim secularist", it's self-contradictory.
 
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Then he's rejecting something else than what you and I mean by "Islam". Just like you are rejecting something else than Mr. Warrior means by "secularism".

No, Islam has an intrinsic meaning because Allah subhanahu wa taala has prescribed it for us as our religion and revealed how we should be Muslims. So we cannot give it any other meaning, that would be intrinsically false.

As for other words, the meaning of some words may change over time, but there has to be a shared understanding and general acceptance of what the meaning is otherwise communication would be impossible. A few words may be subject to various interpretations but there has to be a cored shared meaning and the person using them should make clear what their interpretation is.
 
The practicing of religious freedom is permissible under an Islamic state, the christians and the jews even had their own courts, which muslims definitely don't have today in Europe or in the USA.

Salam alaykum

That´s great, but what about rights of other religions in islamic state? This matter might interest those whose are looking for full freedom of practice they religion (or not to practise any).
 
Salam alaykum

That´s great, but what about rights of other religions in islamic state? This matter might interest those whose are looking for full freedom of practice they religion (or not to practise any).
To be honest, I don't know the exact details of how the relation between Islam and other religions was built to allow such a thing as non-Islamic courts. I can only imagine it being a complex but still practical solution, so I'm going to leave that to somebody more knowledgeable than me to explain.
 
Words mean exactly what we mean when we use them. There is no such thing as an objectively correct definition of a word. Every word is made-up.
Then he's rejecting something else than what you and I mean by "Islam". Just like you are rejecting something else than Mr. Warrior means by "secularism".


I hope that you will take some time to think about what you are saying. I think it's quite clear that you jumped the gun at assuming I was trying to make an argument against Warrior based on what he wrote. It's unfortunate that you assumed what I meant while he on the other hand asked me to clarify which was what you were accusing me of not doing.


Now you are saying that there is no such thing as a true meaning of a word and that it means whatever we think it means. It seems you're even willing to say that there are even multiple Islams. I'm not sure whether you really believe it or you're just trying to avoid admitting your mistake.
-------

 
The U.S government system has been used as an example more than once here, i think it fit to break down what I believe it to be in essence and you may correct me if I'm wrong, there is a presumption included but not without substance. Here's an example (aside from it's obvious actions) of why one may come to the understanding that it is a harbinger of the anti-Christ, Christ being the one who ushers in the kingdom and rule of God, and the AntiChrist being opposed in essence to submission to such authority, we'll begin with descriptions of terms and topics which form the basis of this thread:

sec·u·lar *(sky-lr)
adj.
1. Worldly rather than spiritual.
2. Not specifically relating to religion or to a religious body: secular music.
3. Relating to or advocating secularism.
4. Not bound by monastic restrictions, especially not belonging to a religious order. Used of the clergy.
5. Occurring or observed once in an age or century.
6. Lasting from century to century.
n.
1. A member of the secular clergy.
2. A layperson.
[Middle English, from Old French seculer, from Late Latin saeculris, from Latin, of an age, from saeculum, generation, age.]
secu·lar·ly adv.

--------

forms saecla, saeclorum etc. were normal alternatives to the more common saecula etc.

However on the same page, The proponents of separating secular from seclorum argue that:
The word seclorum does not mean "secular", as one might assume, but is the genitive (possessive) plural form of the word saeculum, meaning (in this context) generation, century, or age. (despite admitting that the term secular also has the same meaning) Saeculum did come to mean "age, world" in late, Christian Latin, and "secular" is derived from it, through secularis. However, the adjective "secularis," meaning "worldly," is not equivalent to the genitive plural "seclorum," meaning "of the ages."

So we can see that the root term describes "rejecting the presence or acknowledgement of God in an act, and an age in contrast to an age/age to age/of the ages
Therefore Both seclorum and secular are derived from the same root term.

Ok, let's look at the term "kafir":

Kafir is an Arabic word literally meaning "ingrate." In the Islamic doctrinal sense the term refers to a person who does not recognize God (rejects God) or the finality of the prophethood of Muhammad and hides, denies, or covers the truth. It is usually translated into English as "infidel" or "disbeliever."

The word kāfir is the active participle of the root K-F-R "to cover". As a pre-Islamic term it described farmers burying seeds in the ground, covering them with soil while planting. Thus, the word kāfir implies the meaning "a person who hides or covers". In Islamic parlance, a kāfir is a word used to describe a person who rejects faith, i.e. "hides or covers [viz., the truth]".

Ok, so we see a clear similarity in both definitions "secular" and "kafir" : in that they both are based on rejecting the Rule or even Presence of God.

Now we will look at a Hadith which was penned down long before the united states of america existed or the great seal of the united states was made:


Imam Ali was reported to have said:
His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star. Only the believers will be able to read the word ‘Kafir’ [disbeliever], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead. There will be big mountains of smoke at both front and backsides of his caravan. People will anticipate food within those mountains, during the severe famine. All rivers, falling in his way, will become dry and he will call upon people in aloud voice, "O my friends come to me! I am your lord who has made your limbs and given you sustenance.[10]

you will notice an elevated left eye shining brightly with the word "seclorum" inscribed in BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS, the eye is called the "eye of providence" (something to do with sustenance i'd presume, maybe just a coincidence, but an amazing one with a very very low probability score:
(It's also visible on the dollar bill).

great_seal_obverse.png
File:Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_(reverse).svg

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Great_Seal_of_the_United_States_(reverse).svg

Above the eye it says: "He approves of the undertakings" or "He has approved of the undertakings"
The only animate item visible describing "he" is a left eye.

Let's se who they claim it is:

Annuit Cœptis is translated by the U.S. State Department,[7] The U.S. Mint,[8] and the U.S. Treasury[9] as,
"He [God] has favored our undertakings" (brackets in original).
However, the original Latin does not explicitly state who (or what) is the subject of the sentence.

However:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger said: There is never a prophet who has not warned the Ummah of that one-eyed liar; behold he is one-eyed and your Lord is not one-eyed. On his forehead are the letters k. f. r. (Kafir).

Or instead of ka fa ra, the term kafara means "he disbelieved/rejected".
And in Islamic terms, disbelieved/rejected God.

So in my personal opinion, using the U.S governance system as an example only proves the dichotomy.

Peace.
 
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No, Islam has an intrinsic meaning because Allah subhanahu wa taala has prescribed it for us as our religion and revealed how we should be Muslims. So we cannot give it any other meaning, that would be intrinsically false.

As for other words, the meaning of some words may change over time, but there has to be a shared understanding and general acceptance of what the meaning is otherwise communication would be impossible. A few words may be subject to various interpretations but there has to be a cored shared meaning and the person using them should make clear what their interpretation is.


I hope that you will take some time to think about what you are saying. I think it's quite clear that you jumped the gun at assuming I was trying to make an argument against Warrior based on what he wrote. It's unfortunate that you assumed what I meant while he on the other hand asked me to clarify which was what you were accusing me of not doing.

Now you are saying that there is no such thing as a true meaning of a word and that it means whatever we think it means. It seems you're even willing to say that there are even multiple Islams. I'm not sure whether you really believe it or you're just trying to avoid admitting your mistake.

However, not everyone who self-identifies as a Muslim agrees on what true Islam is, so yes, it's still just a word that means what we use it to mean. The way language works doesn't change simply because God uses human language to communicate with us. So there are indeed "multiple Islams" in the sense of different things different people mean by the word, even if there's only one true religion.


As for the whole topic, can we let Mr Warrior choose for himself what kind of secularist he is?
 
To be honest, I don't know the exact details of how the relation between Islam and other religions was built to allow such a thing as non-Islamic courts. I can only imagine it being a complex but still practical solution, so I'm going to leave that to somebody more knowledgeable than me to explain.

I'm not more knowledgable and won't pretend to know how, but the justification for "why" is to be found here:

وَليَحكُم أَهلُ الإِنجيلِ بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فيهِ ۚ وَمَن لَم يَحكُم بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ فَأُولٰئِكَ هُمُ الفٰسِقونَ

Let the people of the Gospel judge by what Allah hath revealed therein. If any do fail to judge by (the light of) what Allah hath revealed, they are (no better than) those who rebel.

وَأَنزَلنا إِلَيكَ الكِتٰبَ بِالحَقِّ مُصَدِّقًا لِما بَينَ يَدَيهِ مِنَ الكِتٰبِ وَمُهَيمِنًا عَلَيهِ ۖ فَاحكُم بَينَهُم بِما أَنزَلَ اللَّهُ ۖ وَلا تَتَّبِع أَهواءَهُم عَمّا جاءَكَ مِنَ الحَقِّ ۚ لِكُلٍّ جَعَلنا مِنكُم شِرعَةً وَمِنهاجًا ۚ وَلَو شاءَ اللَّهُ لَجَعَلَكُم أُمَّةً وٰحِدَةً وَلٰكِن لِيَبلُوَكُم فى ما ءاتىٰكُم ۖ فَاستَبِقُوا الخَيرٰتِ ۚ إِلَى اللَّهِ مَرجِعُكُم جَميعًا فَيُنَبِّئُكُم بِما كُنتُم فيهِ تَختَلِفون

To thee We sent the Scripture in truth, confirming the scripture that came before it, and guarding it in safety: so judge between them by what Allah hath revealed, and follow not their vain desires, diverging from the Truth that hath come to thee. To each among you have we prescribed a law and an open way. If Allah had so willed, He would have made you a single people, but (His plan is) to test you in what He hath given you: so strive as in a race in all virtues. The goal of you all is to Allah; it is He that will show you the truth of the matters in which ye dispute;

Quran 5:47-48
 
As for the whole topic, can we let Mr Warrior choose for himself what kind of secularist he is?
.

Lol, as the market gives way to the supermarket, the shelves have more to pick and choose from when you go "shopping" and you can even design your own recipe throw everything in the shop in and still call it what u like, screw trademarks and brand names!

Gee, talk about calling a spade a spade.........

I used to love Anthony Buckeridge's books about the escapades of Jennings when I was a kid, here's one that I recall quite vividly, especially the part where he tries to explain to his classmate what the club was about.....

Especially Jennings!
by Anthony Buckeridge

It was the little plastic badges given away with the packets of Krunchie-Whispie cornflakes that sparked off the idea of the Jennings Membership Club - a group whose aims were such a closely-guarded secret that nobody (including the members) could find out what the club was really for!
First published in 1965 by Collins.


...And I just googled "gospel according to"
And got these results:

The Gospel According to Mary Magdalene - The Gnosis Archive

Lamb: The Gospel According to Biff, Christ's Childhood Pal ...

The Gospel According to St. Matthew (1964) - IMDb

The Gospel According to David Cameron


The Gospel According to 'Me' - NYTimes.com
mobile.nytimes.com/.../the-gospel-accord...

The Gospel According to Jesus Christ - Wikipedia, the free ...

The Gospel According to the Meninblack - Wikipedia, the free ...

The Gospel According to Peanuts: Amazon.co.uk: Robert L ...

.....I'm sure yu'll appreciate the diversity of opinion.
 
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However, not everyone who self-identifies as a Muslim agrees on what true Islam is, so yes, it's still just a word that means what we use it to mean. The way language works doesn't change simply because God uses human language to communicate with us. So there are indeed "multiple Islams" in the sense of different things different people mean by the word, even if there's only one true religion.


As for the whole topic, can we let Mr Warrior choose for himself what kind of secularist he is?

Hello Futuwwa,

Thank you for helping to try to explain my position. I did not mean to cause a length disagreement between you and Hulk, especially since it appears to be about minute details. But yes, there are many different versions of things and many different interpretations.
 
Interesting discussion. I hope it doesn´t end to kind of comments like "this and that is haram".

Is this what you mean about word "secularism?



If yes, then you fight for freedom of think and believe freely, by the other words; for some very basic rights of humanity.

Nice to meet you, pal, I think I fight for the same basic rights too (but I don´t call it as secularism ;D ).

Hello, it is nice to meet you as well! You seem to have a very sensible view of things.
 
The original poster has not as of yet accepted that it is his desire that atheism/Godlessness is the only a accepted only way of life in the political sphere and in the social sphere.

Abz2000, What proof (other than your confused, rambling posts) do you offer that it is my desire that atheism/Godlessness be the only accepted way of life in the political sphere and the social sphere? In the political sphere, I suppose you could say so. I want public policy to be based on interest aggregation along with particular restraints placed on government action (including non establishment of a state religion). However, in the social sphere I have no problem with religion. In fact, when some narrow minded fools wanted to prevent the Muslim community of Murfeesboro, Tennessee from building a community center I wrote letters to local leaders stressing that they must have the right to build a place of worship. As I have repeatedly stated, I think it is a good thing to have many religious people in civil society and particularly of different religions.
 
The U.S government system has been used as an example more than once here, i think it fit to break down what I believe it to be in essence and you may correct me if I'm wrong, there is a presumption included but not without substance. Here's an example (aside from it's obvious actions) of why one may come to the understanding that it is a harbinger of the anti-Christ, Christ being the one who ushers in the kingdom and rule of God, and the AntiChrist being opposed in essence to submission to such authority

You have now just reduced yourself to the intellectual level of people like Glenn Beck. Thank you for your long, rambling, and utterly confused rants Abz2000. It is amusing to see the massive constraints your logic is laboring under.
 
The practicing of religious freedom is permissible under an Islamic state, the christians and the jews even had their own courts, which muslims definitely don't have today in Europe or in the USA. However, you mentioned the Shia. They are very different from the christians and the jews since they label themselves as muslims. That is a big issue becuase the shia have justified countless of crimes against the muslims and Islam. Some of them are: The killing and torturing of muslims (look at Syria), shirk (The worst crime in Islam that is obvious kufr), allowing prostitution (mutaa), calling Omar, Abu Bakr, Aisha disbelievers, hiding their true Shia beliefs through lies (Taqyya) and so on and so forth... The list goes on, this is a war from within (internally) and even externally through attacks and expansions. They are obvious disbelievers that are calling themselves "the true Muslims", so they are corrupting the message of the Prophet Muhammad by stealing the identity of Islam and killing muslims. The western society can give them religious freedom because it's immune to that type of virus. But for us muslims they remain our enemies.

But surely you can't think that most Shia mean you harm. Surely most Shia are like most Sunni, Christians, Jews, Atheists, etc. They just want to live their lives, spend time with their beloved spouse, raise their children, and be happy. And all Shia can't be blamed for the actions of some. Some Sunni have brutally oppressed Shia (Saddam in Iraq for example), but their actions are not representative of all Sunni. I imagine there are Shia who say such things about Sunni.

We are only on this planet for a short time. There is no way to know for sure where we will go when we die if we go anywhere. Doesn't it make sense for us to just accept that we are all different?
 
Imam Ali was reported to have said:
His right eye will be punctured, and his left eye would be raised to his forehead and will be sparkling like a star. Only the believers will be able to read the word ‘Kafir’ [disbeliever], inscribed in bold letters, on his forehead. There will be big mountains of smoke at both front and backsides of his caravan. People will anticipate food within those mountains, during the severe famine. All rivers, falling in his way, will become dry and he will call upon people in aloud voice, "O my friends come to me! I am your lord who has made your limbs and given you sustenance.[10]

you will notice an elevated left eye shining brightly with the word "seclorum" inscribed in BOLD CAPITAL LETTERS, the eye is called the "eye of providence" (something to do with sustenance i'd presume, maybe just a coincidence, but an amazing one with a very very low probability score:
(It's also visible on the dollar bill).



Above the eye it says: "He approves of the undertakings" or "He has approved of the undertakings"
The only animate item visible describing "he" is a left eye.

Let's se who they claim it is:

Annuit Cœptis is translated by the U.S. State Department,[7] The U.S. Mint,[8] and the U.S. Treasury[9] as,
"He [God] has favored our undertakings" (brackets in original).
However, the original Latin does not explicitly state who (or what) is the subject of the sentence.

However:

Anas b. Malik reported that Allah's Messenger said: There is never a prophet who has not warned the Ummah of that one-eyed liar; behold he is one-eyed and your Lord is not one-eyed. On his forehead are the letters k. f. r. (Kafir).

Or instead of ka fa ra, the term kafara means "he disbelieved/rejected".
And in Islamic terms, disbelieved/rejected God.

So in my personal opinion, using the U.S governance system as an example only proves the dichotomy.

Peace.

What precisely is the dichotomy that you have "proven" ???
 
But surely you can't think that most Shia mean you harm.
What does this have to do with Islamic courts or sharia etc.? They've their own way of dealing with things it is their prerogative but I am not sure why you're taking a judicial matter and turning it into a personal matter?
 
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:) I'm having to type on a phone as I don't have internet on the computer at home, my posts do tend to come out haphazard since I can't see what I've written in the previous sentence, let alone paragraph, something I notice myself even b4 I hit send :)

I don't really care wot intellectual level u think I reduce myself to, it's irrelevant. I just gotta say what I can, and do wot I can, and try and get off this planet with a decent retirement plan nice and simple :)

if someone told you they saw the Antichrist with their own eyes u wouldn't believe them anyway- because you don't believe he can exist, because you are an atheist pushing the doctrine of atheism (Godlessness) as the only unanimously accepted way of life. The Hadith is "nonsense" to you because in your broad mind, God doesnt exist and obviously someone that diesnt exist can't have sent prophets, and they in turn cant have seen future events.
you probably even believe your ancestors were apes and stuff. That's an intellectual stretch to justify the infidelity and denial some like to cling to.

Ummm, the dichotomy?
Two totally opposite polarised ways of life which never co-exist peacefully and always come into huge friction, under one political system - run by the side who rejects and those who agree to disobey God.
Actually an oval dichotomy.


قَد كانَت لَكُم أُسوَةٌ حَسَنَةٌ فى إِبرٰهيمَ وَالَّذينَ مَعَهُ إِذ قالوا لِقَومِهِم إِنّا بُرَءٰؤُا۟ مِنكُم وَمِمّا تَعبُدونَ مِن دونِ اللَّهِ كَفَرنا بِكُم وَبَدا بَينَنا وَبَينَكُمُ العَدٰوَةُ وَالبَغضاءُ أَبَدًا حَتّىٰ تُؤمِنوا بِاللَّهِ وَحدَهُ إِلّا قَولَ إِبرٰهيمَ لِأَبيهِ لَأَستَغفِرَنَّ لَكَ وَما أَملِكُ لَكَ مِنَ اللَّهِ مِن شَيءٍ ۖ رَبَّنا عَلَيكَ تَوَكَّلنا وَإِلَيكَ أَنَبنا وَإِلَيكَ المَصيرُ

There is for you an excellent example (to follow) in Abraham and those with him, when they said to their people: \
"We are clear of you and of whatever ye worship besides Allah: we have rejected you, and there has arisen, between us and you, enmity and hatred for ever,- unless ye believe in Allah and Him alone\":
But not when Abraham said to his father: \"I will pray for forgiveness for thee, though I have no power (to get) aught on thy behalf from Allah.\" (They prayed): \"Our Lord! in Thee do we trust, and to Thee do we turn in repentance: to Thee is (our) Final Goal.
Quran 60:4

That man (may the peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) was the furthest from secular.
He just bust the idols and told them there's only one God.
And some people hated him :)
And God took him for a friend :)
He was always a wanderer.
 
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