If God existed…Question to an atheist! first of many to follow

[Ayesha Rana]

But we can explain, pretty much, what ants do and why without God. And it comes down to their genes and evolution. It is true that ants seem to know a few simple tasks when they are born, but those seem to come down to simple rules which are easy to follow - they just seem to produce complex behaviour. Soldier ants are distinguished from worker ants by genes and by upbringing.

It is all due to instinct. Instinct cannot evolve which was a flaw Darwin accepted. How does a baby elephant evolve to drink it's mothers milk at birth. If the first elephant doesn't drink it how will it survive to produce more offspring. How does every baby mamal know what to do? It is instinct that God gave them and without which they would not have lved to begin with.

 

[root]

It is all due to instinct. Instinct cannot evolve which was a flaw Darwin accepted.

The evidence simply does not support your position, please provide the data that supports your position not necesarily what Darwin thought (Evolution is not built on 1 mans opinion). Did you read the post three up on the Scientific Beaver damn building experiment.............

 

[------]

God could send another Prophet IF he wants to but the fact is that Muhammad (pbuh) was the seal of the prophets meaning no more Prophets will come.

How about looking at my post Root?

 

[IceQueen~]

(Evolution is not built on 1 mans opinion)QUOTE]
nope-its the lies built by a group of men working towards the same goal-someday people will see the truth!
can you please read this site? http://www.thestoneage.org/

 

[Ayesha Rana]

The evidence simply does not support your position, please provide the data that supports your position not necesarily what Darwin thought (Evolution is not built on 1 mans opinion). Did you read the post three up on the Scientific Beaver damn building experiment.............

What the beaver did is a different case. Sorry. Mabey i should rephrase my comment. Not all instinct can evolve. I was considering the fact that a mamal cannot be instinctively evolved to drink its mothers milk at birth cos the first mamal would not have those instructions in its genes and if it does not do what it is instinctively able to do cos it doesn't have the genes, it will die. No mamal. No genes. Simple as that.

 

[ISDhillon]

How about looking at my post Root?

Aalima Ji I see at various times you have asked people to read your quote but unfortunately islam does not have a monopoly on the way in which a revelation from god is to brought onto earth, i believe prophethood was one and sure I also believe your prophet was the last one but god may send an avtar which is in no way a prophet and also a guru which he did, your response only applies to prophethood it is not universal when people say it is universal, then they are unwilling to acknowledge that words are exclusive to the thing you are trying to define rasool is not avtar and avtar is not guru and guru is not messenger etc etc.

Also at times people say contradiction is ungodly yet god creates the the ability to contradict also where does the godly and ungodliness start and end?:?

 

[Ayesha Rana]

Fine you have your own opinion on the Guru and stuff but she was trying to make the point that just cos God can do something it doesn't mean He has to. He decided not to and He has the power to do what He pleases.

 

[ISDhillon]

Fine you have your own opinion on the Guru and stuff but she was trying to make the point that just cos God can do something it doesn't mean He has to. He decided not to and He has the power to do what He pleases.

Agreed in terms of prophethood

 

[------]

Hmmmmmmm.......... I don't understand any other religion than Islam, and I've studied Hinduism and Christianity....

 

[ISDhillon]

Sorry bro, in islam God is not self-contradictory

http://www.islamicboard.com/compara...-create-stoneheavier-than-him.html#post159645

Moss I read some of it this is what I think:


“The same is true when asking God to make a circle with four sides.”

A hologram does? So why wouldn’t god?

“Basically, such a stone could not exist.”

Ok then if god is all powerful he first makes himself weak and he cant lift the stone then he uses his power to make himself strong and he picks up the stone:? Why wouldn’t he do this? It comes down to an opinion that he would not and that is an assumption? Is there no end to this madness?

Where will it take us?

Then we venture further into all of this and we find this:

And Allah, over each thing, is omnipotent; all-powerful [al-Baqarah 2:284]

This includes all that is possible. As for what is in intrinsically impossible - such as there being a thing that exists and does not exist at one and the same time - then, this has no reality, nor is its existence conceivable, nor is it termed 'a thing' by agreement of the intelligent ones. Included in this category is: [Allah] creating the likes of Himself, making Himself non-existent, and other impossibilites.


I am in aggreeeance that such a god which I wholly believe in is intrinsically impossible, beyond reality, inconceivable by the intelligent ones and finally impossible – however this cannot be tied into the revelation of Koran either as being incorrect if such a contradiction were to exist because the concept of god is hands-off!, the way you’re supposed to live can be inferred by using you’re intellect because that is what the Koran is for, the Koran is not for figuring out the concept of god if you say it is then you will fail at every step its as impossible as an impossible god.


Isdhillon

 

[Soldier2000]

If god existed then one of the attributes of and God would be all knowing, he is well acquainted to what is and what is not comprehensible to his creation- and if he chose to send down revelation to Guide Mankind and you believe in an all Good creator, you will have to admit the revelations would have to be in-synch with the rational mind!

Hi Heigou

Your response to the above was

Why? They would have to be in-synch with God's mind, but as that Mind is essentially unknowable to us mere mortals, we would have to accept His Rules without questions or thinking too much about them. It would not matter why pork, for instance, was banned. It is banned. I see no reason why His revelations would have to be logical and rational at all.

First of Why?

Because of the reasons I have given in the very above- to highlight

“And if he chose to send down revelation to Guide Mankind”

They would have to be in-synch with God's mind, but as that Mind is essentially unknowable to us mere mortals, we would have to accept His Rules without questions or thinking too much about them. It would not matter why pork, for instance, was banned. It is banned. I see no reason why His revelations would have to be logical and rational at all.

what are these rules that you talk of?

 

[HeiGou]

I find it impossible to believe that such an amazing thing can happen completely by chance. Can you by chance pik out a red marble out of a gigantic jar containing 999 million blue marbles?

Why do you keep insisting it is by chance when it is no such thing? Evolution has random inputs - variation - but it is not by chance per se. Imagine a flock of gazelles. If they died at random there would be no evolution as such. But if a cheetah came along and ate all the slow ones - that would not be by chance. The cheetah would eat the ones it could catch, and the ones that were too fast for it would escape. Over time the gazelles would get faster and faster as the slow ones would not have any children and the fast ones would. Where is the chance here?

 

[HeiGou]

Why? They would have to be in-synch with God's mind, but as that Mind is essentially unknowable to us mere mortals, we would have to accept His Rules without questions or thinking too much about them. It would not matter why pork, for instance, was banned. It is banned. I see no reason why His revelations would have to be logical and rational at all.

Because of the reasons I have given in the very above- to highlight

“And if he chose to send down revelation to Guide Mankind”

I don't follow why that follows from the above. God does not need us to udnerstand His purpose. He needs us to obey it. It would, no doubt, help if we understood it because then we could follow it better. But it is not necessary for it to be logical or rational. Indeed I would argue most religions are neither.

They would have to be in-synch with God's mind, but as that Mind is essentially unknowable to us mere mortals, we would have to accept His Rules without questions or thinking too much about them. It would not matter why pork, for instance, was banned. It is banned. I see no reason why His revelations would have to be logical and rational at all.

what are these rules that you talk of?

Well the ban on eating pork. Why? The permission to marry your cousin. Why? The need to circumcise? To allow murderers to pay diya? There are a lot of things about most religions which are not logical or rational, but just are.

 

[HeiGou]

How about looking at my post HeiGou?

Sorry I am not ignoring your posts, but I am a little swamped. As I answered one a lot like it (random - I got to it first) I did not repeat myself.

That is you isn't it under a new name?

 

[root]

What the beaver did is a different case. Sorry. Mabey i should rephrase my comment. Not all instinct can evolve.

I don't see how it is a different case. Perhaps one could say that we have clearly demonstrated that quite complexed tasks are well developed genome so the instinct to suckle by comparison is a relative "basic" instinct.

I was considering the fact that a mamal cannot be instinctively evolved to drink its mothers milk at birth cos the first mamal would not have those instructions in its genes and if it does not do what it is instinctively able to do cos it doesn't have the genes, it will die.

Your basing that on the premis that lactating females are already present ready for the young to suckle which could not be the case. When looking for an answer I akways find it best to identify why a current system would have been advantages to it and then look for how it could reasonably be achieved through small steps, Here is the evolutionary advantage of lactating females.

Lactation is Secretion or formation of milk by the mammary glands.

Lactation is a ubiquitous feature of mammalian reproduction. Because lactating females can draw on their nutrient reserves for milk production, it offers mothers and their dependent young independence from fluctuations in their food supplies. However, converting food to reserves and milk is relatively inefficient at delivering nutrients to offspring. We use dynamic programming to contrast the performance of mothers that provision dependent, refuge-bound offspring optimally from their nutrient reserves with otherwise equivalent mothers that do so directly from the food they find. In this way, we demonstrate formally that the selective advantage to lactating mothers, who can provision--at a cost--without having found food recently, can be substantial with uncertain food supplies and few opportunities for future reproduction under a wide range of circumstances. Hence, it is likely that unreliability associated with the lifestyles of the small, primitive mammal-like reptiles that evolved extended maternal care, selected for fully-developed milk production and consumption, prompting the evolution of true mammals. Moreover, this work suggests that selection for coping with unreliable food access during provisioning may underlie key life-history differences between birds and mammals because the mass constraints imposed by flight restrict the level of reserves that mothers can carry and provision from.

Of course, exactly how it occured is not yet known and a couple of theories to this matter do exist here is the link:
http://www.madsci.org/posts/archives/dec2001/1008253501.An.r.html

No mamal. No genes. Simple as that.

No genes, no mamal would be a better way of putting it.

 

[IceQueen~]

hey root- have you read that harun yahya site or not?

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Why do you keep insisting it is by chance when it is no such thing?

eace:

Agreed

eace:​

 

[Soldier2000]

I don't follow why that follows from the above. God does not need us to udnerstand His purpose!

whose talking about understanding Gods purpose, the question address understanding your purpose!

Well the ban on eating pork. Why? The permission to marry your cousin. Why? The need to circumcise? To allow murderers to pay diya? There are a lot of things about most religions which are not logical or rational, but just are.

i like the way you added the why's after each commandment-

BUT are the commandments clear enough to you?, forget the reasons for them but the commandments themself?

 

[IceQueen~]

I don't follow why that follows from the above. God does not need us to udnerstand His purpose!

whose talking about understanding Gods purpose, the question address understanding your purpose!

Well the ban on eating pork. Why? The permission to marry your cousin. Why? The need to circumcise? To allow murderers to pay diya? There are a lot of things about most religions which are not logical or rational, but just are.

i like the way you added the why's after each commandment-

BUT are the commandments clear enough to you?, forget the reasons for them but the commandments themself?

may Allah guide you! ameen!

 

[IbnAbdulHakim]

Evolution has random inputs - variation - but it is not by chance per se. Imagine a flock of gazelles. If they died at random there would be no evolution as such. But if a cheetah came along and ate all the slow ones - that would not be by chance. The cheetah would eat the ones it could catch, and the ones that were too fast for it would escape. Over time the gazelles would get faster and faster as the slow ones would not have any children and the fast ones would. Where is the chance here?

eace:

Survival of the fittest is not by chance, its a system which fits perfectly! Imagine if the system was flawed, things would have just blown completely out of proportion. I dont think humans or "chance" has its way of creatin such a system.

eace: ​