Important Request: Jehovas Witnesses

[Woodrow]

^^ sob7an Allah akhi.. that is very informative.. I really enjoy concise pieces like that..

One of my cousins became a JW nearly 50 years ago. At first she did her best to convert the rest of us. When we did not convert she "shunned" us. She has not spoken to any of her blood relatives for over 40 years now. I learned that if a JW fails to convert a person, they are to write that person out of their life and avoid all contact with them.

Yet at the same time there are some points about JWs that make them attractive to some people. You can say they are near the right path, but somehow going in the wrong direction on it.

Some points about what they believe

1. They are not to support any man made government. Can not be a soldier in any nations army. Many were jailed in the USA during WW2 for being draft dodgers. Until a law was passed making Being a conscientious objector a Draft exemption.

2. they do not celebrate any holidays

3. They are not to go to war except to fight for god in the coming "Battle of Armageddon" (I use the small g as their concept does not seem to be what we know as God(swt))

4. They believe blood transfusion is a sin, even if it is to save a life.

5. They are not trinitarians

6. They can not have any non JWs as friends except for the purpose of converting them and if they do not convert, they are to sever all ties with them.

7. They can not have any contact with any ex JW

8. They seem to avoid music and the party life so common in the west.

9. Witnesses are not allowed to read any information that is contrary to the Watchtower. This includes material from former Witnesses, insincere Witnesses or someone who was never a Witnesses.
(A Witness is forbidden to read the Qur'an, that makes it difficult to approach them with Truth from the Qur'an))

 

[جوري]

Sob7an Allah, some of their basic beliefs are so contrary to common sense and to Islam.. firstly abandoning ones family, and secondly withholding life-saving treatment amongst other things.. good thing that medicine doesn't recognize this when the decision comes to minors, I have encountered one Jehova who was aptly against a blood transfusion but ended up having one anyway when she came close to death, it made me feel like if she really held on to those beliefs then she would have been willing to die for them.. still I appreciate how they pointed out all that is wrong with Christianity as someone really studied in the matter could.. I have read many of their articles against saul/paul and found them quite concise, appropriately quoted and lucid.. too bad the lucidity is lost when it comes to their own beliefs.. who in their right mind would subscribe to a religion so exclusive and where a god would have made his choice over who is saved and to hell with the rest quite literally.

I can never accept a religion that caters to a select few or where god has a preference to a handful of people.. where is the hope, where is the free will, what is there to look forward to, what is the point of it?
if they don't read the Quran then on what basis or logic are they refuting Muslims, or rather trying to indoctrinate them--just a mass dumping of irrelevant material so contrary to man's nature that they merely hope will take hold?

 

[Woodrow]

Sob7an Allah, some of their basic beliefs are so contrary to common sense and to Islam.. firstly abandoning ones family, and secondly withholding life-saving treatment amongst other things.. good thing that medicine doesn't recognize this when the decision comes to minors, I have encountered one Jehova who was aptly against a blood transfusion but ended up having one anyway when she came close to death, it made me feel like if she really held on to those beliefs then she would have been willing to die for them.. still I appreciate how they pointed out all that is wrong with Christianity as someone really studied in the matter could.. I have read many of their articles against saul/paul and found them quite concise, appropriately quoted and lucid.. too bad the lucidity is lost when it comes to their own beliefs.. who in their right mind would subscribe to a religion so exclusive and where a god would have made his choice over who is saved and to hell with the rest quite literally.

I can never accept a religion that caters to a select few or where god has a preference to a handful of people.. where is the hope, where is the free will, what is there to look forward to, what is the point of it?
if they don't read the Quran then on what basis or logic are they refuting Muslims, or rather trying to indoctrinate them--just a mass dumping of irrelevant material so contrary to man's nature that they merely hope will take hold?

They do have some of the best refutations regarding Paul, that I have ever read and they also are good at exposing the fallacies of Catholicism. I believe they were one of the first groups to bring attention to the abusive Priests.

It is sad that they have failed to look inward at themselves and see that they are doing the same things they refute so strongly.

They are so close to the door of truth it is within their reach, but they refuse to see the door much less open it.

I find them to be a very difficult group to reach as they do have a very thick wall they built around themselves that makes it near impossible for the truth to penetrate. If they are to see the truth, they have to first climb down from their watch tower.

They have a very bizarre hierarchical order in their belief in which they are divided into separate orders, almost a secret society type concept.

Here in the US their fastest growth comes during times of war as their exemption from military service as "Conscientious Objectors" is a strong attraction to those who refuse Military Duty.

 

[Grace Seeker]

Funny this thread should appear at this time. As I was unpacking my books in my new office, a person came in just as I was putting some JW stuff on my shelves. I think they were surprised that their pastor would have such stuff, but I have a fairly eclectic collection of books representing the views of many widely diverse religious groups. What's unique about the JW material is that I have a lot of not just primary source material, but first generation primary source material. My great-grandfather was a JW back at the turn of the 20th century, and from them I am able to show those that knock at my door that more than just a few JW beliefs have changed during the last 100+ years.

As for JW beliefs that a follower of Islam would care about:
1) JWs believe that there is one and only one god. God is the god of the Old Testament, and his personal name is Jehovah.
2) Christian belief in the Trinity originated with Satan.
(This might be confusing because JW's in predominately Christian cultures will present themselves as Christians, and suggest that they are the only ones who correctly practice true Christianity. In non-Christian cultures, they don't seem to care to make that identification.)
3) Jesus is the first son that Jehovah God brought forth, but is just another part of creation. Jesus had a pre-human existence as Michael the arch-angel, and it is in this form that he is the only-begotten son of God. He was born as the human Jesus by the Virgin Mary. He became the anointed Messiah at his baptism by John. He showed that he lived a life of subjection to God by humbling himself to a most disgraceful death not on a Roman cross, but on a torture stake. He did not raise from the dead in the flesh, but with a spiritual body and is now a mighty immortal spirit Son of God.
4) The holy spirit is nothing more than the invisible active force of God by which he moves his servants to do his will.
5) Sin is failing to live up to God's standard which is perfection. Adam and Eve sinned by disobeying God's plainly stated law, and so had to die. That death was a return to dust and nothingness. Adam's sin means several things:
5a) that all who come after Adam in time inherit an imperfect world.
5b) that all who descend from Adam are born in sin with wayward tendencies.
5c) that Adam not only brought death upon himself, but all humanity will live and die as mortal beings because the perfect human life has been lost.
6) Redemption or Salvation means restoring our perfect human life to us. But this requires two things:
6a) The offering of a perfect human life (equal to that which Adam forfeited) to pay the redemptive price -- Jesus supposedly did this.
6b) The living of a obedient lives as witness on Jehovah's behalf, dedicated to do Jehovah's will.
7) There is a strong belief that Jehovah will make all things right when he returns to acknowledge those who are his true witnesses and those who are false. This will be the battle of Armageddon and after it survivors will find life on earth a new paradise once again. All who reject or resist will be utterly destroyed; they are not just doomed to hell, but are annihilated in it so that it is as if they never had been.
8) The most important thing a JW can do is to witness to Jehovah. But they are warned to expect that anyone who is a true witness for Jehovah will experience rejection. So, when you shut the door in the face of a JW at your door, you are confirming their belief in themselves as being true followers of Jehovah.

 

[Grace Seeker]

They are so close to the door of truth it is within their reach, but they refuse to see the door much less open it.

It is interesting that you view JWs as being "so close to the door of truth". I see them as lightyears away from it. As I shared with the person who entered my office as I unpack my books representing various religions, I would rather have a child of mine become a follower of Islam than to become a Jehovah's Witness.

 

[Woodrow]

It is interesting that you view JWs as being "so close to the door of truth". I see them as lightyears away from it.

Peace Gene,

What I see as close would understandably be seen as barriers to you. Such as their not being Trinitarian (Although I may be wrong and possibly the way they seem to place Jesus(as) as a lesser god, but still a god, may make me rethink that.) But I do see agreement with Islam in the non-celebrating of most holidays, placing God(swt) above Nationalism and their usual modest dressing. Also the fact they avoid rowdy parties.

As I shared with the person who entered my office as I unpack my books representing various religions, I would rather have a child of mine become a follower of Islam than to become a Jehovah's Witness.

Me Too ;D

 

[Sarada]

I abhor any kind of prosletysing. Especially the aggressiveness of the Jehova's Witnesses. If you want people to join your religion, then lead by example, show them what you believe to be the right path by living it yourself. When people ask about your faith and religion, of course, answer them, and explain. But be respectful.

 

[aadil77]

Alhamdulillah

They came over the other day, I refuted their beliefs easily - made them look like right idiots (in a respectful way), then I talked to them about islam and sent them home each with a Pickthall translation of the Quran

Apparently they don't believe in hell, that earth will be turned into paradise, they believe that death is a punishment (LOL), didn't know how far they are from mainstream christianity

 

[Woodrow]

Alhamdulillah

They came over the other day, I refuted their beliefs easily - made them look like right idiots (in a respectful way), then I talked to them about islam and sent them home each with a Pickthall translation of the Quran

Apparently they don't believe in hell, that earth will be turned into paradise, they believe that death is a punishment (LOL), didn't know how far they are from mainstream christianity

Inaha Allaah possibly they may read the Qur'an. If they do so you may just win a revert. As JW teachings forbid them from reading the Qur'an, in their eyes they would be committing a serious sin to read it, so if any do read it, it is a strong indication they have doubts about JW.

 

[Danah]

Very interesting thread and replies!!

Alhamdulillah

They came over the other day, I refuted their beliefs easily - made them look like right idiots (in a respectful way), then I talked to them about islam and sent them home each with a Pickthall translation of the Quran

Apparently they don't believe in hell, that earth will be turned into paradise, they believe that death is a punishment (LOL), didn't know how far they are from mainstream christianity

Good work bro! inshaAllah they will read it, actually I hope they will read it but if they are strict JWs then I suspect they will do as that will be a great sin as uncle Woodrow said.

Maybe they have such rule to prevent their followers from knowing the truth! because I can't recall any religion that prevent its followers from reading other scriptures!

So in other words, they just want their followers to blindly believe in their belief :hmm:

 

[Woodrow]

Maybe they have such rule to prevent their followers from knowing the truth! because I can't recall any religion that prevent its followers from reading other scriptures!

So in other words, they just want their followers to blindly believe in their belief :hmm:
[/COLOR]

That is true, which makes them seem to more of a cult rather than a religion. There is a lot of secrecy within them as an organization. Most seems to be designed to keep the members from learning about other beliefs.

This is sad as most that I have met are very nice and friendly people. Very generous, thoughtful of others and always willing to help anybody in need.

 

[aadil77]

Inaha Allaah possibly they may read the Qur'an. If they do so you may just win a revert. As JW teachings forbid them from reading the Qur'an, in their eyes they would be committing a serious sin to read it, so if any do read it, it is a strong indication they have doubts about JW.

I could tell one of them seemed a bit reluctant to take the Quran - when I was giving it to her she said she's read the Quran before - I just pretended not to hear her and handed her it anyway

but the other opened it and started reading it infront of me and incidently the first page she came across talked about Maryam and the birth of prophet Isa, she seemed quite interested in it

some of the things I asked them definately made them think about their beliefs, they had to twist their words in order to give acceptable answers

 

[Grace Seeker]

Apparently they don't believe in hell, that earth will be turned into paradise, they believe that death is a punishment (LOL), didn't know how far they are from mainstream christianity

Maybe they have such rule to prevent their followers from knowing the truth! because I can't recall any religion that prevent its followers from reading other scriptures!

So in other words, they just want their followers to blindly believe in their belief :hmm:

That is true, which makes them seem to more of a cult rather than a religion. There is a lot of secrecy within them as an organization. Most seems to be designed to keep the members from learning about other beliefs.

Now, can you see why I have objected in other threads when some on this forum have mistakenly grouped JWs within Christianity? I have different set of issues with Mormonism, but they don't fit within orthodox Christianity either.

 

[جوري]

Now, can you see why I have objected in other threads when some on this forum have mistakenly grouped JWs within Christianity? I have different set of issues with Mormonism, but they don't fit within orthodox Christianity either.

from our perspective all of Christianity is faulty, for there is nothing after worshiping a man that can possibly be anymore deviant or any worse..

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

from our perspective all of Christianity is faulty, for there is nothing after worshiping a man that can possibly be anymore deviant or any worse..

all the best

Yes, I understand that from your perspective all of Christianity is faulty. But what of JWs? They don't worship a man, and on that basis alone they aren't Christian.

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Yes, I understand that from your perspective all of Christianity is faulty. But what of JWs? They don't worship a man, and on that basis alone they aren't Christian.

That is why I mentioned to Bro Aadil some possible common ground for discussion being the role of Jesus. The JW's don't treat Jesus as God. They don't believe in the trinity. From that perspective a Muslim may have some room for discussion with a JW.

Maybe the missionary who was willing to read the Qur'an will learn a thing or two.

:wa:

 

[Karl]

The Nazis used to persecute the JWs, they may have links with Zionism. Also they are very sycophantic to the secularist systems and laws of the land. Their head office is in New York and they seem to go along with the Zionist American way. Their magazines are full of propaganda a bit like a religious version of Time magazine.
I have talked to them about Islam and they seemed to like the fact I was a believer in God. They wanted to visit me regularly to teach me their religion, but I said I am studying Islam and not interested. That was a long time ago and they never came back. They probably thought I was too much of a tough nut to crack.

 

[جوري]

But what of JWs?

what of them? as the great mother of a martyr once said, ''does it matter if you skin the sheep after you have slaughtered it?'' it wouldn't matter whom you consider outside the folds of Christianity when from our perspective there is no greater sin than the one you are currently committing!
There are so many Christians with different beliefs that run the gamut from hutterites to uniterians each undoubtedly thinking the others heretics..from our perspective they all are heretics!

all the best!

 

[Grace Seeker]

There are so many Christians with different beliefs that run the gamut from hutterites to uniterians each undoubtedly thinking the others heretics..from our perspective they all are heretics!

That shows as little understanding of Christianity as if someone were to say that there are many different kinds of Islam from Ahmadi to Nation of Islam, from Sufi to Wahhabi.

 

[جوري]

That shows as little understanding of Christianity as if someone were to say that there are many different kinds of Islam from Ahmadi to Nation of Islam, from Sufi to Wahhabi.

I know you like to use the 'ahmadi' crap often.. fact is you have a zillion bible with no consensus on which one is the 'real bible' after all god isn't the author of confusion or is he? So which sect of you is correct? who knows, you are all equally deviant!
In Islam we have one Quran for the 85-90% sunnies and the same with remaining shiites.. ahmadis have their own british imperialist written Quran and lick and follow the boots of their British gods so again your example fails and I hope you retain this information this time for the next time you desire to use the 'ahamdi' example to make your usual non-point!

all the best