Important Request: Jehovas Witnesses

[Hiroshi]

I'm afraid they don't. This refers to those believers whose bad deeds outweighed their good deeds (but they still had faith), thus went into the fire first before going into paradise. All those whose good deeds outweigh their outweigh their bad deeds go straight to heaven. Nowehere does this hadeeth say everyone will go to hell.

Peace.

They don't? How about Ibn Kathir’s Commentary on that verse?

Surah 19:71 Not one of you but will pass through it: this is, with thy Lord, a Decree which must be accomplished.

Imam Ahmad narrated that Sulaiman Ibn Harb narrated that Khalid Ibn Sulaiman narrated that Kathir Ibn Ziad Al- Barsani narrated that Abu Sumaya said, "We differed about the meaning of ‘Passing through it’ (wari-duha). For some of us said that no believer will enter hell and others said all (people) shall enter it and then Allah will save those who have done righteousness. Then I met Jabir Ibn Abdallah and I informed him that we differed about the meaning of, ‘Pass through it,’ and he replied that: "Everyone shall enter it."

 

[Insaanah]

Just changing a few words here and there so that it can't be recognised as a copy and paste makes no difference. Your attitude appears to be one of, "Ah, lets see how the Muslims respond to this now!" rather than one of a true seeker of knowledge.

If you want to play the answering islam and answering christianity game, frankly there isn't much point in your coming to this forum, because all you have to do is to go to answering christianity website, and find the answer to your point.

Ok. You want to play the game.

Just google answering christianity +key words and you'll get the answer.

As your answers are all there, I won't be wasting any more of my precious Ramadan moments playing your game copying and pasting answers/refutations/rebuttals that you can easily find and read for yourself.

Peace.

 

[Hiroshi]

Greetings Hiroshi,

Firstly, in this thread and in others, you have demonstrated your blind acceptance of anything being the truth that is written in the answering islam website, especially articles by the foul-mouthed Sam Shamoun, who is known for his f-word responses to Muslims.

Just changing a few words here and there so that it can't be recognised as a copy and paste makes no difference. Your attitude appears to be one of, "Ah, lets see how the Muslims respond to this now!" rather than one of a true seeker of knowledge.

If you want to play the answering islam and answering christianity game, frankly there isn't much point in your coming to this forum, because all you have to do is to go to answering christianity website, and find the answer to your point. If you have a genuine interest in Islam and for sincere interaction with Muslims then you are welcome. Only Allah knows innermost intentions, but I can only go by what I have seen you do in this thread and others, and which, when I have twice pointed the fact out to you, you have not denied.

I have researched a great many things over the years and from many different sources. The availablity of Islamic information on the internet is not restricted to Sam Shamoun of "Answering Islam".

I have formed the opinion that many popular beliefs of Muslims today are quite different to those that existed in earlier times following the rise of Islam and the fundamental establishment of it's doctrinal tenets. I don't know why this should be. I am interested to know what others on Islamic Board think on this.

But mainly, I wanted to give Aadil77 some idea of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they might respond to him in a discussion. I am surprised, though, that you and The Vale's Lily reject the belief that all humanity enter hell as I thought that there were even direct quotes from Muhammed confirming this.

I am a little tired of you and others repeatedly questioning my motives.

 

[Grace Seeker]

But mainly, I wanted to give Aadil77 some idea of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they might respond to him in a discussion. I am surprised, though, that you and The Vale's Lily reject the belief that all humanity enter hell as I thought that there were even direct quotes from Muhammed confirming this.

I have a question for you, Hiroshi, as a representative of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you see trinitarian Christians as merely wrong with regard to their beliefs regarding the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, or do you see those concepts as being so egregious in nature that you would reject that those who hold them should even call themselves Christian?

 

[Hiroshi]

I have a question for you, Hiroshi, as a representative of the Jehovah's Witnesses. Do you see trinitarian Christians as merely wrong with regard to their beliefs regarding the Trinity and the divinity of Jesus, or do you see those concepts as being so egregious in nature that you would reject that those who hold them should even call themselves Christian?

Hi Grace Seeker.

Jehovah's Witnesses believe that they are the only true Christians doing God's work today and that doctrines like the trinity are part of a great apostacy and falling away from the truth. That really puts you and I in strong disagreement over what many consider are the basic doctrines of Christianity. But, of course, we also have a lot in common (I hope).

 

[Grace Seeker]

But, of course, we also have a lot in common (I hope).

Surely some things. But as you indicate our core beliefs are about as diameterically opposed to one another as one could get. I'm not insulted that you don't consider me to be a true Christian. And I suspect you're not surprised, and I hope not insulted, to know that the feeling is mutual.

When the comparative section is open, I think it would be interesting to see how it is that different groups on this form define what it means to be a Christian. I wonder, among those who don't identify themselves as Christian, whether your beliefs or mine are those that they perceive as representative of Christianity?

 

[Rabi Mansur]

Surely some things. But as you indicate our core beliefs are about as diameterically opposed to one another as one could get. I'm not insulted that you don't consider me to be a true Christian. And I suspect you're not surprised, and I hope not insulted, to know that the feeling is mutual.

When the comparative section is open, I think it would be interesting to see how it is that different groups on this form define what it means to be a Christian. I wonder, among those who don't identify themselves as Christian, whether your beliefs or mine are those that they perceive as representative of Christianity?

Good point as I think most here see Christianity as one big conglomeration that worships a man/god and believes in the trinity. That of course is not ALWAYS the case. But the vast majority of Christians do subscribe to the trinity and that is what defines them as Christian. There are sects that have varying views on the trinity. For example, Mormons as you know, don't believe in it but have their own form of man/god worship that would be viewed by Muslims as just as egregious as mainstream Christian trinitarianism.
:wa:

 

[جوري]

Thanks sis Insanah..
at least it was good for a chuckle if nothing else..
he'd been holding that secret information and waiting for the moment to shock us with it ;D ;D ;D
I love the stuff they indoctrinate them with in their schools.. it is perfectly acceptable for them to believe what they say, what is beyond me is how they think they can come teach us Quran/Sunnah And Arabic with their own desired renditions!

 

[Hiroshi]

Surely some things. But as you indicate our core beliefs are about as diameterically opposed to one another as one could get. I'm not insulted that you don't consider me to be a true Christian. And I suspect you're not surprised, and I hope not insulted, to know that the feeling is mutual.

When the comparative section is open, I think it would be interesting to see how it is that different groups on this form define what it means to be a Christian. I wonder, among those who don't identify themselves as Christian, whether your beliefs or mine are those that they perceive as representative of Christianity?

No, of course I don't feel insulted and I'm glad that you don't either. I would certainly look forward to comparing notes with you on the comparative section once Ramadam is over.

 

[جوري]

I have researched a great many things over the years and from many different sources. The availablity of Islamic information on the internet is not restricted to Sam Shamoun of "Answering Islam".

Then why is what you bring saturated with ignorance that is dispensed with on the idiots websites?

I have formed the opinion that many popular beliefs of Muslims today are quite different to those that existed in earlier times following the rise of Islam and the fundamental establishment of it's doctrinal tenets. I don't know why this should be. I am interested to know what others on Islamic Board think on this.

That unfortunately hasn't reflected in your writing?

But mainly, I wanted to give Aadil77 some idea of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they might respond to him in a discussion. I am surprised, though, that you and The Vale's Lily reject the belief that all humanity enter hell as I thought that there were even direct quotes from Muhammed confirming this.

I believe she has shown you verses to otherwise .. yatabawa'a maqi3dho min aljannah wa yatabo'a maqi3dho min an'nar hardly translates to exclusive beliefs to me and sis insaannah. Everyone will indeed see their seats in both heaven and hell, including kaffirs, it doesn't mean that they are to enter one or the other!

I am a little tired of you and others repeatedly questioning my motives.

lol, what other purpose can there be when you are 'teaching' us our religion instead of trying to properly learn it?

all the best

 

[جوري]

No, of course I don't feel insulted and I'm glad that you don't either. I would certainly look forward to comparing notes with you on the comparative section once Ramadam is over.

It is called Ramadan oh learned one!

all the best

 

[piXie]

Hello Hiroshi,

whatever wickedness they would have committed would be limited. It wouldn't be justice to chastise them forever for a limited period of sin.

If one is rewarded with Paradise forever, for a limited period of good deeds, then why is it injustice if one is punished with Hell forever, for a limited period of bad deeds?

If you find the notion of Paradise Just and accept it, then should you not also find the notion of Hell Just and accept that too? :ermm:

Having said this, God does not chastise us in Hell forever for a limited period of sins. No rather, He only puts us in Hell for a limited period of time according to the sins we have committed in life. Then He takes us out of Hell and puts us in Paradise (after we have been purified). Please hear the story of the last person who will be taken out of the Hell Fire here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LEVZNM1e1FI

The only time God will chastise someone in Hell forever is when they commit the One Unforgiveable Ultimate sin. The Biggest Violation. The Biggest Untruth in the whole of this vast universe. The most Tremendous Lie which makes the earth shake and crumble with fear. The BIGGEST Blasphemy and most grievous crime against God

To say; The Lord is not One, and to attribute partners with Him. (A'udubillaah!)

God says “(they) impute falsely, without knowledge, sons and daughters unto Him” [6:100]

“Who is guilty of more wrong than he who foregth a lie against God” [6:93]

“Glorified be He, and high exalted above (all) that they ascribe (unto Him)!” [6:100]

God has told us explicitly in the scriptures that he is One without partners, and He has warned us time and time again of the consequences of violating this message and most basic right of His.

He says “We sent a messenger to every nation saying Worship Allaah alone, and shun false deities"[16:60]

Hear Oh children of Israel! The Lord thy God is One Lord!

"Say He is God, the One and Only God, the, Eternal, Absolute. He begets not, nor is He begotten. And there is none like unto Him!" [112:1-4]

God has warned us He will never forgive this one sin.

“Indeed Allaah does not forgive associating partners with Him, and He forgives other than that if He wills” [4:48]

Before we speak of hell being unfair and unjust, let me ask you brother Hiroshi, which is an unfairness and an injustice,

For the Lord to send messengers to inform His slaves of His most basic right; the consequences of violating it, and thereafter punishing us if we do not take heed,

Or for His slaves, who eat and live of His bounty, to deny Him His most basic right, despite receiving His numerous warnings?

The Final Prophet peace be upon him said, “Allaahs right upon His worshippers is that they worship Him without associating anything with Him. And the worshippers right upon Allaah is that He does not punish anyone who does not associate anything with Him” [Two Sahihs]

They deny God His right, yet they demand theirs? Who is the one being unfair, God or us? Who is the one committing the crime, God or us? I mean, Who is He and who are We? Its just.. ASTOUNDING, the human being.

Yet, despite the lie they attribute to the Lord of the worlds, He has given them respite. Not only that, but He still looks after them and provides for them.. He still watches over them... He still gives them chance after chance, opportunity after opportunity, reminders after reminders to stop transgressing His right.

This is His patience.. Only His patience. This is His Mercy.. Only His mercy.

I seriously don't understand us. The human being. Why does he carry on denying God His right, and denying himself Paradise? I really really don't understand. Is it that hard to believe 'The Lord thy God is One?'

For Gods sake, let us come back to Tawheed, Jews, Christians, and Muslims alike !

The Final Prophet peace be upon him said: “Whoever testifies that there is no god but Allaah, alone without partners, and that Muhammad (peace be upon him) is His worshipper and Messenger, and that Jesus (peace be upon him) is a worshipper of Allaah, His Messenger, His word delivered to Mary, and a soul from Him, and that Paradise is true, and that the fire is true, Allaah will admit Him to Paradise whatever his deeds may be" [al-Bukhari and Muslim]

In another narration: "Oh son of Adam! If you come to Me with mistakes filling the bags of the earth, yet you met Me without associating anything with Me, I would come to you with those bags full of forgievenss" [Tirmidhi]

Lets just read these narrations, lets just contemplate on them for a minute. Lets contemplate on Gods mercy, and how vast is His mercy. Let us contemplate on His patience, and how vast is His patience. Let us contemplate on His compassion, and how vast is His compassion. Let us contemplate on His forgiveness, and how vast is His forgiveness. Now let us contemplate upon His wrath for those who insist and keep on insisting on denying His most basic right, despite all the Lords favors, and then we will begin to understand why He is so vast in retribution.

And I swear by Allaah and His 99 names, He is JUSTIFIED

.

​

 

[aadil77]

I have formed the opinion that many popular beliefs of Muslims today are quite different to those that existed in earlier times following the rise of Islam and the fundamental establishment of it's doctrinal tenets. I don't know why this should be. I am interested to know what others on Islamic Board think on this.

Never heard anyone say this before, can you give some examples?

But mainly, I wanted to give Aadil77 some idea of the beliefs of Jehovah's Witnesses and how they might respond to him in a discussion. I am surprised, though, that you and The Vale's Lily reject the belief that all humanity enter hell as I thought that there were even direct quotes from Muhammed confirming this.

I am actually suprised that you hold this belief in regards to muslims, everything in our faith makes sense, it would not make sense for everyone to be punished in hell especially if their sins are forgiven or they died in a state of innocence (children)

I think the members above have answered this misconeption of yours

 

[Hiroshi]

Ok. You want to play the game.

Just google answering christianity +key words and you'll get the answer.

As your answers are all there, I won't be wasting any more of my precious Ramadan moments playing your game copying and pasting answers/refutations/rebuttals that you can easily find and read for yourself.

Peace.

Hey, Insaanah. You did me an injustice here. I checked the answers and responses and found out that a really thorny, bitter and nasty controversy developed between the two parties over these issues. But it is a controversy that I would never want to bring up in the middle of Ramadam, I swear. I just didn't realize what was involved.

I now see what was bothering you and why you wanted to shut me up quickly. My apologies.

 

[جوري]

Hey, Insaanah. You did me an injustice here. I checked the answers and responses and found out that a really thorny, bitter and nasty controversy developed between the two parties over these issues. But it is a controversy that I would never want to bring up in the middle of Ramadam, I swear. I just didn't realize what was involved.

I now see what was bothering you and why you wanted to shut me up quickly. My apologies.

How did Insanaah do you a great injustice here? Not only are you incredibly ignorant in such a fashion that is visible to the naked eyes-- you have no desire to correct your mistakes when evidenced to the contrary.
Just a quick and simple example is your incessant use of the word 'Ramadam' where you were corrected previously and yet chose to repeat the same error twice! This is only reflected in all you write!
How can you possibly blame anyone else for your own folly and refractory ignorance? We need you to shut up for a simple reason, we like to cultivate our fast and not waste it on the ignorant disseminating ridiculous and faulty information during the holy month, surely my ten year old nephew can refute you if that is at all worth his time, question is why lose ones fast arguing trivialities with clods?

all the best

 

[Hiroshi]

Never heard anyone say this before, can you give some examples?

Okay. Modern day Muslims believe that the flood of Noah's day was a local one only affecting a limited area of the earth's surface. I read a book by Dr. Maurice Bucaille that says this. But I am sure that Muslims in the past believed that the flood was global, covering the entire earth.

I am actually suprised that you hold this belief in regards to muslims, everything in our faith makes sense, it would not make sense for everyone to be punished in hell especially if their sins are forgiven or they died in a state of innocence (children)

I think the members above have answered this misconeption of yours

Maybe we can discuss it later.

 

[Hiroshi]

Just a quick and simple example is your incessant use of the word 'Ramadam' where you were corrected previously and yet chose to repeat the same error twice! This is only reflected in all you write!

...

all the best

Oh yes. Ramadan. Apologies again.

 

[Hiroshi]

Hello Hiroshi,



If one is rewarded with Paradise forever, for a limited period of good deeds, then why is it injustice if one is punished with Hell forever, for a limited period of bad deeds?

If you find the notion of Paradise Just and accept it, then should you not also find the notion of Hell Just and accept that too? :ermm:

I don't believe that we earn everlasting life in Paradise. We are undeserving. But it is a loving gift from God, as you said: a reward.