Is there gender equality in Islam?

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?

Ibn Abi Ahmed · Feb 14, 2007

syilla · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Lol. Don't you know the status of woman in islam? You should try learning about that first before you come and post.

Try reading this first.

source

By : Shaykh Ali At-Timimi

With that brief introduction, one of the topics of contention between these two worlds views, that of the secular liberal humanist in the West and the Islamic tradition, concerns women. What is the position and status of women? How are women looked to? Are women elevated in one culture and oppressed in another?

The Western view is that women are elevated only in the West and that they are getting more and more rights with the passage of time, while their sisters - they say - in the Islamic world are still being suppressed. The Muslims who they encounter say that in actuality it is the Islamic system that provides the true freedoms for men and women alike, and women in the West as well as men, are deceived into an idea of freedom which really doesn't exist. What I'd like to discuss this evening is exactly how Islaam looks to women. And therefore my discussion will be more upon - what we might say for the lack of a better term - the philosophical basis, rather than the individual practices which vary from one country to the other. How women are understood in Islaam cannot be properly understood - and this is more significant, I feel - unless one understands exactly what we might call the philosophical basis or ideological understanding - since this is really a theological concept.

This verse might be translated as the following: "And the believing men and women are," what we might translate as, "awliyaa" - the word in Arabic for friends or allies or supporters of one another, "they" - meaning men and women - "bid to that which is correct" i.e. they commend that which is correct, "and they forbid that which is evil". And this is a corrective process in society, removing evil and commending that which is good. And then "they perform the prayer", both men and women, "they pay the alms", or the charity to the poor, "and they obey God and His Messenger." And then God shows them the reward and that they are those upon whom God will have mercy and God is Almighty and All-Wise.

So in this verse, we find that the social contract between men and women, as individuals in the society, is the same, that they both go for the highest goal of bidding or commanding that which is correct, forbidding that which is evil, and that they share in the two major acts of worship, which are the prayer and giving charity. They share in the beliefs and obedience to God and obedience to the Prophet Muhammad (sallallaahu `alayhi wa sallam) and likewise, they share in the reward in the end of obtaining Allah's mercy. This is a very important concept, which is in contradiction with what the western tradition is upon today, and that is as I said as a result of the initial extreme of the Greek philosophers that women did not share in humanity. As the result of that extreme another extreme occurred - at least the Muslims consider it extreme - that there is no difference between men and women.

By : Ansar Al-'Adl

source

Concerning the pyschological differences between men and women, an article entitled Men and Women Really Do Think Differently quotes a recent neurological study:
Psychology professor Richard Haier of the University of California, Irvine led the research along with colleagues from the University of New Mexico. Their findings show that in general, men have nearly 6.5 times the amount of gray matter related to general intelligence compared with women, whereas women have nearly 10 times the amount of white matter related to intelligence compared to men. [...]In human brains, gray matter represents information processing centers, whereas white matter works to network these processing centers.
The results from this study may help explain why men and women excel at different types of tasks, said co-author and neuropsychologist Rex Jung of the University of New Mexico. For example, men tend to do better with tasks requiring more localized processing, such as mathematics, Jung said, while women are better at integrating and assimilating information from distributed gray-matter regions of the brain, which aids language skills.

What Islam Says

Islam recognizes that while men and women have some physical differences, spiritually they enjoy absolute equality before God. The Qur'an and Ahadith are unequivocal in stating that one's gender will have absolutely no bearing on their reward or punishment in the next life.

3:195 I shall not lose sight of the labor of any of you who labors in My way, be it man or woman; each of you is equal to the other

4:124 If any do deeds of righteousness,- be they male or female - and have faith, they will enter Heaven, and not the least injustice will be done to them.

16:97 Whoever works righteousness, man or woman, and has Faith, verily, to him will We give a new Life, a life that is good and pure and We will bestow on such their reward according to the best of their actions.

40:40 "He that works evil will not be requited but by the like thereof: and he that works a righteous deed - whether man or woman - and is a Believer- such will enter the Garden (of Bliss): Therein will they have abundance without measure.

33:35 Indeed, the Muslim men and Muslim women - the believing men and believing women, the obedient men and obedient women, the truthful men and truthful women, the patient men and patient women, the humble men and humble women, the charitable men and charitable women, the fasting men and fasting women, the men who guard their private parts and the women who do so, and the men who remember Allah often and the women who do so - for all has Allah prepared forgiveness and a great reward.

49:13 O mankind! We have created you from a male and a female, and made you into nations and tribes, that you may know one another. Verily, the most honourable of you with Allah is the most pious. Verily, Allah is All-Knowing, All-Aware.

Therefore Islam openly declares that men and women have an equal status and value before God, and piety alone differentiates one individual from another.

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Instead of going through all of this, can some answer simple question?

If a man is allowed to have many wives and if women are equal to men, are women allowed to have many husbands as well?

Malaikah · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

That is not true- everyone knows that men can't have babies! And I've never heard of a female plumber, builder, electrician, carpenter etc...

Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality?

It does.

For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife.

Not true, see the links provided above.

A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?

And who is going to earn the cash when the wife is pregnant and has a little baby?

In Islam, the roles of husband and wife are clearly defined. It is the husbands duty to provide money and care for the wife and children, not the wife's duty. In return for that care, the wife takes care of the children and the household, because that is what suites her more. If she wants to work, she is allowed to, but any money she earns is 100% hers and the husband has no right to it at all, whereas the money earned by the husband must be spent on the wife and kids.

So, the point you raise is baseless, you expect the wife to earn money to take care of the husband? That is not how it works, the husband is the one who must take care of the wife, not sit around at home like a useless person while the wife has the burden of earning a living for the family and being a mother at the same time (and everyone knows what a hassle it is to be a mother).

Oh, and I can't imagine any women in her right mind wanting more than 1 husband while having to provide for all of them! Women want men who are going to provide for them.

Also, a women can not have more than one husband for the simply reason that it would be traumatic on those involved to try to figure out who is the father other child.

It would also be extremely hard for one woman to satisfy the sexual desires of more than one man.

Hope that helps!

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Malaikah said:
That is not true- everyone knows that men can't have babies! And I've never heard of a female plumber, builder, electrician, carpenter etc...

Men not be able to have babies only proves that women are superior to men. Come to America, you'll see 'em all. Women are doing everything, driving trucks and everything else.

It does.

Malaikah said:
Not true, see the links provided above.

This is the site where I learnt that a man is allowed to beat his wife as long as he leaves no marks on her body.

Malaikah said:
And who is going to earn the cash when the wife is pregnant and has a little baby?

Have you heard of something called maternity leave?

Malaikah said:
In Islam, the roles of husband and wife are clearly defined. It is the husbands duty to provide money and care for the wife and children, not the wife's duty. In return for that care, the wife takes care of the children and the household, because that is what suites her more. If she wants to work, she is allowed to, but any money she earns is 100% hers and the husband has no right to it at all, whereas the money earned by the husband must be spent on the wife and kids.

So is it written from the time of prophet somewhere that if she wants to work she can but the money she brings home is hers or is it something was added recently when women started working?

Malaikah said:
So, the point you raise is baseless, you expect the wife to earn money to take care of the husband? That is not how it works, the husband is the one who must take care of the wife, not sit around at home like a useless person while the wife has the burden of earning a living for the family and being a mother at the same time (and everyone knows what a hassle it is to be a mother).

Oh, and I can't imagine any women in her right mind wanting more than 1 husband while having to provide for all of them! Women want men who are going to provide for them.

It isn't matter of expecting her to earn money. It's a matter of if is earning money. I am pretty sure there Muslim female doctors, making lots of money. So why wouldn't she have the same rights as men?

Malaikah said:
It would also be extremely hard for one woman to satisfy the sexual desires of more than one man.

I am not sure if this is true. I think it's the other way around

Malaikah · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
This is the site where I learnt that a man is allowed to beat his wife as long as he leaves no marks on her body.

That isn't beating though.

Have you heard of something called maternity leave?

How long does it last for and is it payed? Unless you're expecting the little kids to be thrown into day care?

So is it written from the time of prophet somewhere that if she wants to work she can but the money she brings home is hers or is it something was added recently when women started working?

Yes, this is not something new.

It isn't matter of expecting her to earn money. It's a matter of if is earning money. I am pretty sure there Muslim female doctors, making lots of money. So why wouldn't she have the same rights as men?

Because it is not her duty to earn the money! It is the husbands duty. Even if you wanted to argue that women should be allowed multiple husbands, you are forgetting that it is her husbands that have to provide money for her, not the other way around, so it doesn't matter how rich she is or how poor she is, the husband provides, not the wife.

By the way, what right? She already has the right to work and keep her own money, the husband doesn't even have that right.

You can't give men and women the same rights in every aspect of like- that is not just, you will end up oppressing someone. They need to be given rights according to their abilities etc.

I am not sure if this is true. I think it's the other way around

You must be kidding...?

Malaikah · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

With regards to women having multiple husbands:

There is no point in giving a woman the right to marry multiple husbands, rather that is beneath her dignity and she would not know the lineage of her children, because she is the one who bears the offspring, and it is not permissible for the offspring to be formed from the sperm of a number of men lest the lineage of the child be lost and no one will know who is responsible for bringing up the child; this will lead to breakdown of families, loss of ties between fathers and children, which is not permitted in Islam as it is not in the interests of the woman or of the child or of society as a whole.

Read this article for more information about polygamy in general:
http://islamqa.com/index.php?ref=14022&ln=eng

nocturne · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

to simply put it. If a women were to marry a few men, and if she is to be pregnant. Would you know who the father is? (actually thinking about, nowadays u can find the lineage throught DNA tests).

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Malaikah,

We are not talking about her to provide, instead her ability to provide and once she is capable of providing, which I am pretty sure a lot of female Muslim doctors do, why doesn't she have the same rights as men? Why does she still have to wear burka and why does she still get beaten up by Talibans http://youtube.com/watch?v=ZiYT1ywtXxA?

Are you saying when a Muslim is makes a lot of money working as a doctor for example, she doesn't support family at all?

AvarAllahNoor · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

Malaikah said:
It would also be extremely hard for one woman to satisfy the sexual desires of more than one man.

Hope that helps!

But a man is supposed to take control of his desires on earth, so why the need for five wives, when in Jannah he'll be rewarded with Houris?

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

When it comes to sexual satisfaction, one-on-one is the best way to go. No one can satisfy five of opposite gender.

Dawud_uk · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

Then how come, Islam doesn't provide with equality? For example, a man is allowed to beat his wife. A man can have many wives even though it's proven that women can equally capable of earning as much as men, in some cases even more than men. Then how come a woman isn't allowed to have many husbands if she can afford to do so?

be careful,

several sikh guru's also had multiple wives!

but i will answer your query as this,

are men and women equal? yes of-course they are.
are they the same? no of-course they are not!

women can take more pain and can do things physically men cannot do, the same way men can do some things physically that women cannot and generally have more strength.

women are more emotional than men, a clear advantage when dealing with families and children but sometimes can be a disadvantage at other times.

men and women have different aspects of strength in mental abilities, year on year men do better at maths at school and women better at english.

so can be seen that men and women are equal but not the same.
not the same physically.
not the same emotionally.
not the same mentally.

therefore God in his wisdom when he gave us the shariah made it so that these differences are allowed for and that each sex is given a role more suited to its relative strengths and weaknesses.

Abu Abdullah

Umar001 · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
Today, it has been proven that women are equally capable as men.

What happend today?? Have I missed something

I would be very interesting for me personally to take part in this dialogue but in order to avoid confusion and since there are about 3 people speaking to you I'll stay out.

Insha'Allah.

Eesa.

EDIT CHECK LATER IN THE THREAD.

Abdul Fattah · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

the important difference between the western and Islamic approach to this is that Islam says that man and woman are equal in worth, but at teh same time recognizes the differences in nature of men and woman and adjusts the rules so that the two different people get treated equally. Because if you treat two people with different characteristics in the same way one will have a disadvantage due to the characteristics.

Abdul Fattah · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
When it comes to sexual satisfaction, one-on-one is the best way to go. No one can satisfy five of opposite gender.

Note that it is forbidden in Islam for a husband to sleep with several of his wives simultaneously. So the sexual acts are always one on one.

seeker_of_ilm · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

AvarAllahNoor said:
But a man is supposed to take control of his desires on earth, so why the need for five wives, when in Jannah he'll be rewarded with Houris?

A man is supposed to take control of his desires with regards to extra-marital affairs, yes. However, a married couple are permitted to act out their desires with each other in a lawful manner.

With regards to multiple wives, I believe you mean 4. Yes Allah has permitted a Muslim man to take 4 wives, but there are also conditions derived from what has been said:

1. “but if you fear that you shall not be able to deal justly (with them), then only one”

This verse shows that just treatment is a condition for plural marriage to be permitted. If he is afraid that he will not be able to treat them properly, it if forbidden for him to marry more than one. What is meant by the justice that is required in order for a man to be permitted to have more than one wife is that he should treat his wives equally in terms of spending, clothing, spending the night with them and other material things that are under his control.

2. The ability to spend on one’s wives:

The evidence for this condition is the verse:

“And let those who find not the financial means for marriage keep themselves chaste, until Allaah enriches them of His Bounty”

Allowing plural wives is also a solution for when women become widowed, and need to be taken care of. So you see we are not commanded to, or encouraged to marry 4, we are simply permitted to. And if the women are consenting to marry someone who is already married, then what business is it of anybody elses? God has permitted her, and she has consented. Simple.

May I also ask, this is just out of interest, is there a limit set in the Sikh scriptures regarding how many wives a man may take?

Thank you

cali dude · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

steve said:
Note that it is forbidden in Islam for a husband to sleep with several of his wives simultaneously. So the sexual acts are always one on one.

So are you saying that Malaikah's argument that a wife wouldn't be able satisfy five men doesn't make sense here?

Dawud_uk · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

cali dude said:
So are you saying that Malaikah's argument that a wife wouldn't be able satisfy five men doesn't make sense here?

in general men are more lustful than women, in general, so no her argument is correct.

aamirsaab · Feb 14, 2007

Re: How come there no gender equality in Islam?

:sl:

Polygamy has less to do with lust/sexual drive and more to do with supporting others economically.

Is there gender equality in Islam?

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