Islamophobia and atheo-fascism
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Argamemnon said:
You say that as though it is a bad thing. I would have thought you would be happy to love among muslims.
aamirsaab said:
Perhaps Argamemnon is staying for the money? Maybe you should move to a muslim country and teach them how to make money – for a fee of course ;D
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aamirsaab said:
I disagree.
My life without religion involves a lot of hiking, cycling and skiing.
I have been hiking, cycling and skiing all over the place.
I would like to go hiking, cycling and skiing over every road, up every valley and over every mountain on earth! Our earth is beautiful!
But, I will run out of time and money. Hence I work hard, make money and do these things.
Of course we can no longer go hiking in the beautiful Swat Valley of Pakistan, and stay in local accomodation and pay the locals for doing do, because the Taliban say hiking to see our beautiful world is against Islam.
No religion = good hiking in the Swat Valley ;D
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as 'a' species? Interesting how you apply it in the singular manner. You're a monogenist right? I'm a polygenist and I say each human species to their own, and I will also say that religion is the way for MY species.
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Then why spend so much of your time on an Islamic forum? From where we are standing, you are either a hypocrite or have positively no understanding of why what you write doesn't reconcile with what you allege you do.
I'll choose the second option, given the first requires some thought on your part, and I really believe there is a large vacancy between your ears.
I don't say this to insult you, it is just how you represent yourself to forumers here, I rather think some of your Q's or thoughts would be better off if you deliberated over before you hurled them out.. Yes, I know we are cave dwelling Muslims who take over airplanes with plastic knives but I think if you took the trail of less herbing you might find that there are still some standards involved when writing even on an Islamic board, and that what you spew will have to be publicly decimated for its nonsensical(ity)?
to the OP.. what is, is what has always been, just like murder and gluttony and acedia and jealousy have always existed.. Muslims are just in at the moment, Islam is also enjoying the highest conversion rate since its inception. You can live your life in fear or you can be a part of positive change that is taking place in the world... I'd avoid stupid people.. if you walk into an area of poor demographics and folks who seem to want to have at you Muslim or not, then I'd simply just avoid it... That is why we work, so we can support fellow Muslims and afford ourselves a dignified life style away from the riff-raffs..
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I think you are dead right about this. The West is essentially full of godless barbarians. What makes them so dangerous is that most of them are pop culture consuming complete MORONS and are easily manipulated like a big dog, and when they get converted to a hateful path they act like a dog which has caught rabies. Many westerners are currently being manipulated by wealthy and very clever jews. Jews are frothing at the mouth with Islamophobia and through the media they are successfully manipulating the minds of the barbaric westerners (10 tribes of the beast). Jews also know too well their own previous bad fates with the westerners, and so they are shifting the previous European focus on jews and cleverly directing the paranoia and hate towards Muslims instead. While the jews continue to own the powerful media things will NOTchange. Muslims are best to try and get out of Europe as soon as they can, but of course for some, this is not always easy as many Muslims are poor. Another important thing to bare in mind is that Europe is populated by MANY zionist jews, many of whom pretend to be "Christians" and even disguise themselves as being of Germanic race. It doesn't wash with me though, I can pick them out very easily.
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The main reason why the crusades took was due to military and commercial expansion. Religion here was used as a form of motivation in order to gain mass support. Otherwise without religion, the leaders at the time would have simply found another form of propaganda to gain mass support for the war.
Wrong. Zionism it the main drive behind the state of Israel. You don't have to be religious or even follow a religion in order to become a Zionist.
Ah please explain to me. Are you referring to the 1971 conflict or 1965 conflict?
No America = no Taliban = No 9/11 = No war on terror = No war Afghanistan = No war Iraq
You forgot to name many other wars too.
World War 1
World War 2
Vietnam War
Somali Civil War
Mexican drug conflict
Assam Conflict
Algerian War
Most recent Iraq and Afghanistan war
At the moment this is what I can think of at the top of my head. There is a lot more. If you actually sit down, spend your time productively and read about these conflicts, you would realise all of these conflicts and wars have something in common. Sometimes it about expansion for economic purposes, military purpose, for resources or simply the expansion of land. In some conflicts yes religion has a role but only as a form of motivation. Nationalism is another form of motivation. The government or the leaders at that time shall use anything to gain mass support in order to go to war. So really it doesn't make a difference with or without religion. You going to get war with power hungry fools in high status power.
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At least without religion you wouldn't have people that hate each other because of their religion and trying to make other people hate Jews. It has stopped amazing me that no matter where you find Muslims on a forum you always find at least one that is trying to convince everyone to hate Jews. Are you trying to tell us that Muslims are not being manipulated? If so can you actually keep a straight face when typing when your posts?
On the other hand, without religion does anyone really think their would be less wars and killing? History has shown that wars occur no matter whether religion is involved or not. Religion is often just the excuse given, although the real reason were often much different. Did the Greeks kill each other over religion? Did the Persians conquer in the name of religion? The Romans? Was WWI about religion? WWII? Korea? The Falklands? Vietnam?
That's a stretch. If there were no Judaism then there would be no Zionism. If Palestinians were not predominately Muslim then most of the people in the Middle East (and on this forum) would have stopped caring about them decades ago. In this case religion is to blame for both sides continuing this conflict.
aamirsaab
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You said we'd be better off without religion; I am truly not convinced in light of my experiences.
But I believe we must agree to disagree on this matter, for now anyway.
Oh I'll have a bash on him soon enough, on a more approriate thread.
...Right. Please tell me exactly where it is in the Quran or Sunnah that hiking, cycling and skiing is haram (forbidden by Allah)? I'll wait.Joe said:
Also, I think you missed my point: religion as a concept and as a set of ideas is there to prevent many of the social ills that are present today (in a society that is free from religion or secular as people like to call it) - whether you believe in them or not, just looking at the teachings is enough for anyone to say: ''Hey, these guys say alcohol, gambling and adultery is bad - hey aren't those three really rife nowadays and aren't those three the main causes of disparity in our society? Wow, that's some real sh*t right there.''
We would most certainly NOT be better off without religion, especially Islam.
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GuestFellow
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Do you even know what you are talking about? If you do not have anything useful to add to the thread, then do us a favour and leave. Go climb a banana tree with the rest of the gorillas.
He is just coming up with retarded equations. No atheists = no retarded equations.
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No atheists = no retarded equations.
If you do not have anything useful to add to the thread, then do us a favor and leave.
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If you do not have anything useful to add to the thread, then do us a favor and leave.
Sure. No more useful things to say for you atheists.
*leaves*
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Argamemnon
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You are avoiding the issue we're discussing, and trying to put the blame on victims? I was born and raised here, my mother tongue is Dutch. It's not that easy to just move to another country and start a new life (but not impossible either). Besides, I will live wherever I want, and don't need your permission.
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Is that why atheists hate all Muslims (and even Christians and Jews)? Because of their atheist beliefs?
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Some of them do that is for sure. They simply cannot tolerate other people's religious beliefs and want to see religion wiped off the planet. It never suited them so they wish for the same for others. Too bad this shall never come a reality and atheists can keep on dreaming. It has already been demonstrated what life is without religion looking at the vast majority of western countries. Not looking very good especially in Britain.
Argamemnon said:
Regarding Rupert Murdoch. Some people on this forum have said that he is a Jew and that News Limited constantly uses anti-Islam propaganda.
You are wrong.
Murdoch’s father, Keith, was a journalist. Keith’s father was a Presbyterian minister from Scotland and his father too was a Presbyterian minister from Scotland! No Jews there!
A year ago in Australia, 9 Muslims were charged with terrorism offences. 4 immediately pled guilty and the 5 co-conspirators mysteriously pled not guilty.
The court case lasted a year, the other 5 found guilty and the case reported in News Limited newspapers.
In the article, see link below, the author says the men had mental problems – it wasn’t Islam that caused then to turn to terror.
This is an example of News Limited, NOT using anti-Islam propaganda.
http://www.theaustralian.news.com.au/story/0,,26231976-28737,00.html
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aamirsaab said:
You will have a long wait as I never said that.
I said “the Taliban said hiking is against Islam”. So you need to ask the Taliban.
I have some background. Hiking in the Swat valley was popular from the late 1960’s till the early 1980’s.
Eventually the locals said, that hiking was a waste of time. They pointed to their holy book and said time would be better spent praying to Allah. Hiking was forbidden because its against Islam!
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Argamemnon; said:
Originally I thought we could all co-exist. That we cannot co-exists comes from you’re side – not from my side.
I have said this a few times in various threads and get ignored. We can co-exist when:
We live in houses next door to each other.
We know bout our differences and can laugh about them.
Our children play together.
From time to time, if I am out, you give my wife a hand with something and I give you’re wife a hand with something.
We go to a local café for a meal together. I have pork and you have something else.
We could go on and on. In the West Mulsims avoid doing all these things, separate themselves from society so we cannot talk to each other and then claim:
Argamemnon said:
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There is that sense of "the other" which you will find everywhere. There is also an issue with immigrants who wish to keep their own culture and values but in the process do not take the time to understand the history and culture of the country they've moved to. They don't wish to call their residence "home" and they don't wish to reside where in the country they call "home". You've got to wonder why you want to live in a place where you don't like the culture and values of the people. Will you look down on your neighbours every day? How will they feel? If you think that you will assimilate to such an extent, then how do you feel about your own values and traditions? Islam is a way of life, there are no compromises and frankly living in the west you will be making compromises with your "afterlife" each and every minute you are outside your home.
If there is a fear, one day here will be too many religious people who will take over the government through the democratic system. It’s ironic, because an Islamic government does not run on a democratic system. If people began demanding special rights or freedoms based on religious convictions, which have no non-religious benefits, then it is unfair to the population of that state. It also undermines the control and legitimacy of that government. This has nothing to do with not wanting Muslims/Christians/Hindus in the country. It is a matter of treating everyone on an equal level based on fundamental human rights. Those fundamental rights include freedom of conscience, but they do not include the freedom to impose a religious order on other. Atheism is not the same as secularism. Even without any atheists in a state, the religious citizens could decide to have a non-religious government.
Secularism has purged religion (to a good extent) from governments. Don't think that this is simply about Islam. As for the personal beliefs of others, I cannot comment. I hope you'll find that atheists are not fanatics since there's no central dogma and atheism is nothing more than a lack of faith in god. Everything else concerning political alignments, social or economic ideologies etc... are in no way related to or based on atheism. What you take for granted as a natural order does not apply for everyone, so please try to understand that in order to engage in that discussion you need to shift your paradigm.
I'm sure no one is asking you to leave. You need to figure out what you value.
All the best,
Faysal
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you should really direct all that drivel to the Amish communities, hutterites, Hasidic Jews, the folks of china town, little Italy etc etc etc.
or is it just Muslims that peeve you for their lack of acclimation or perhaps is that you are a typical brain washed hypocrite from the other end of the spectrum?
all the best