Islamophobia and atheo-fascism

[جوري]

So you want me to do your research for you? You are the one that stated that the Amish were not persecuted in WWI. You were wrong, yet I get more insults? Funny stuff.

Rather when you write you need to support your views, I merely pointed out that you can't distinguish one group Anabaptist from the next, which you can't!

Apparently you cannot recognize it yourself. I was quite aware of your sarcasm, since that is one of your main tool of discussion and you use it with the subtlety of a sledgehammer. Mine, though, seems to have gone right over your head.

What has gone over my head?

You cannot seem to make an intelligent argument, so you attack the person who disagrees with you instead of attacking their points. What exactly does that reveal about yourself and your ability to make an intelligent and reasoned response? Think about it. Maybe you will have learned something else from me :statisfie

Where is the intelligence in any of your 'arguments' what is your point? Do you actually have a point?

You were the one that diverted the topic. You completely ignored the relevant parts of my original post and went off on a tangent. Since you seem to have forgotten them, let me repeat some of them for you:

Go ahead point out the relevance of your post to 'Islamophobia and atheo-fascism'

The Chinese in Chinatown are not complaining about Democracy. The Amish in Pennsylvania are not saying that the US should be under religious rule. I am new to these forums but I have already seen Muslims speaking of their dislike of democracy, the filth and depravity of the West, and seen them try to convince people that everyone would be better under Sharia law. These, I believe, are just some of the reason why there is a perception difference between the assimilation of Muslims in the UK and the assimilation of the groups that you mentioned.

Democracy by definition is a political system in which the supreme power lies in a body of citizens who can elect people to represent them-- the fact that Muslims dislike the system in which they find themselves for its failure to recognize its own basic tenets doesn't denote they want to usurp its govt. Thus again, you have failed to demonstrate any relevance or a solid argument of topic to point, you have merely highlighted the irrational fear and hatred of the west toward anything Islamic, not because of failure to 'integrate' or for keeping their identity, rather for the obvious reasons which you and your ilk choose to define behind obscure banners and mum at best when having the hypocrisy of it pointed out publicly.
You have no understanding of basic definitions. You don't know what shari'a law stands for, and how or why or in which ways that is at odds with 'democracy'!

Do I think these perceptions are accurate? Most likely not. Unfortunately it is often the squeaky wheel that gets the most grease. In this case it is the loudest complainers that get the most attention for their group.

Sounds like an adequate assessment of yourself..

all the best!

 

[OurIslamic]

It's not good that people are afraid of Islam. I'd rather that they didn't know about it than have negative feelings regarding it.

 

[julesfly]

It appears some people are more interested in arguing about who more articulately argues rather than the content of the argument. It is hard to have these discussions without making generalisations which cause personal offence on both sides but personal insults dont help. Some seem to be arguing over who is most educated and yet seem to not have left the school playground! Our Islamic i assure you not everyone is scared of Islam or makes these types of generalisations.

 

[جوري]

Who are you addressing exactly in your posts? I am not the one posting my resume and claiming to be a history buff while taking the circuitous route to avoid answering how Muslims fail to integrate, while other very pooled religious denominations do just that and left alone if not in fact applauded for it.

As for who is scared or not scared of Islam and for what reason, is an issue that doesn't matter to me personally, PR moves are left to politicians. Islam is a Religion that is also a way of life and is a done deal.. there is no room for interpretation to accommodate the 'concerned and frightened'

all the best

 

[cat eyes]

i believe that its the muslim governments thats causing all this they are doing so much dirty work and pakistan is a country of murdering criminals bombing innocent people and who do the people look to is the taliban and then people over here in the west thinking look at those murdering muslims then we all have to suffer hearing all of this thats what we have to put with and who is the taliban getting trained by we probably all have a fair idea its all one big game to stop the spread of islam and the west hating us more and more

 

[GuestFellow]

Who are you addressing exactly in your posts? I am not the one posting my resume and claiming to be a history buff while taking the circuitous route to avoid answering how Muslims fail to integrate, while other very pooled religious denominations do just that and left alone if not in fact applauded for it.

Salaam.

Yes I do not understand when people say Muslims do not integrate with other members of the society. Specifically I would like non-Muslim members to point out how Muslims fail to integrate with society.

 

[جوري]

Salaam.

Yes I do not understand when people say Muslims do not integrate with other members of the society. Specifically I would like non-Muslim members to point out how Muslims fail to integrate with society.

It is just the crap they peddle, like 'freedom fries' or 'they hate our freedom' or 'come to hooters for a good time'
Just a motto to justify their hatred and ignorance, and bury their head in the sand, I mean if your country were hijacked by cave dwellers with plastic knives and invisible airplanes that went into the very citadel that symbolizes power, wouldn't you want to know what is their secret? or rather what your country is hiding from you and for what purpose?
They produce ignorant herds by the bush-loads and to sustain their hedonistic meaningless lives, they have to make others into some sort of scape goat to justify their occupation, hatred and frank looting!

:wa:

 

[Argamemnon]

t to politicians. Islam is a Religion that is also a way of life and is a done deal.. there is no room for interpretation to accommodate the 'concerned and frightened'

Salam,

I know this is off topic, but I don't agree that there is 'no room' for interpretation in Islam, or that Islam is a 'done deal'. I disagree with the idea that the 'door of ijtihad is closed'. This might be an interesting topic, although I doubt that most people here are mature enough to openly discuss these issues. It's a very sensitive subject.

 

[جوري]

Salam,

I know this is off topic, but I don't agree that there is 'no room' for interpretation in Islam, or that Islam is a 'done deal'. I disagree with the idea that the 'door of ijtihad is closed'. This might be an interesting topic, although I doubt that most people here are mature enough to openly discuss these issues. It's a very sensitive subject.

I am not talking about ijtihad fi deen. I am talking about re-interpreting Islamic jurisprudence to acquiesce to western standards.. not that they'd even be pleased with that, as so Allah swt tells us in his most noble book!

:wa:

 

[Ansariyah]

This topic has probably been discussed before, but I don't visit this forum regularly, so please forgive me. I'm very worried about my future as a Muslim here in western Europe. There is so much anti-Islam propaganda, especially young people seem to hate Islam and Muslims to the extent that there can be no coexistence in the future......

That's my opinion based on what I see, hear and read. I believe a future Holocaust of Muslims is not as far-fetched as some people believe. All western children are brainwashed with anti-Islam propaganda by Islamophobes and atheo-fascists (Godless atheist bigots), so how could one be optimistic about the future?
I have to come to terms with the fact that I may have to migrate to a Muslim country. I can't imagine living in the West in the year 2030-2040.

Is that why Islam is the fastest growing religion in europe & all over the world?

Look at indonasia a country that was under Christian colonial rule for hundreds of years. It was soon after Muslim traders started visiting Indonasia that people started becomin Muslim n today Indonasia has the largest Muslim population!

Everyone is not a immigrant anymore, a lot of people have been born n bred here this our home. No one has any right to make us feel inferior unless we let them.

Moving to a Muslim country is all good, but if we all leave things will not get better in non-Muslim countries.

 

[Argamemnon]

Is that why Islam is the fastest growing religion in europe & all over the world?

Salam,

Muslim countries have a high fertility rate, although it's declining fast in some countries (Iran, Turkey, north Africa). I wonder how many people actually convert. I do know that some naive Muslims seem to believe that the whole world is "turning to Islam", which is a major exaggeration. Even if we assume that annually 100,000 people across the world convert to Islam, this is still an insignificant number...

 

[Mujahideen92]

This topic has probably been discussed before, but I don't visit this forum regularly, so please forgive me. I'm very worried about my future as a Muslim here in western Europe. There is so much anti-Islam propaganda, especially young people seem to hate Islam and Muslims to the extent that there can be no coexistence in the future......

That's my opinion based on what I see, hear and read. I believe a future Holocaust of Muslims is not as far-fetched as some people believe. All western children are brainwashed with anti-Islam propaganda by Islamophobes and atheo-fascists (Godless atheist bigots), so how could one be optimistic about the future?

I have to come to terms with the fact that I may have to migrate to a Muslim country. I can't imagine living in the West in the year 2030-2040.

Salam brother. I can see why you are worried. But from what i have seen, the West is gradually starting to learn more about Islam and appreciating it alot more.

It was alot worse 20 years ago compared to today.

 

[titus]

Rather when you write you need to support your views, I merely pointed out that you can't distinguish one group Anabaptist from the next, which you can't!

Are you claiming I am wrong when I state that Amish were imprisoned and abused during WWI for not joining the military?

You accused me of Googling what I know, now you want me to Google so I can provide links to you? Oh, the irony.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish2.htm
And another

If you want more then let me know.

What has gone over my head?

Thank you. Best laugh I had all day was reading that line.

You have no understanding of basic definitions. You don't know what shari'a law stands for, and how or why or in which ways that is at odds with 'democracy'!

Once again you make presumptions about me without knowing anything about me, and once again you are completely wrong. Exactly what makes you think you have the first clue what I believe or what my knowledge is? Is it because I am not a Muslim you automatically consider me ignorant? Or is there some other reason?

I am not the one posting my resume and claiming to be a history buff while taking the circuitous route to avoid answering how Muslims fail to integrate, while other very pooled religious denominations do just that and left alone if not in fact applauded for it.

I only told you about my degree in response to a comment you made about my ignorance. I was only attempting to show you that your assumption about me was wrong.

As for answering the question "how Muslims fail to integrate", I know you have read my posts but you still haven't understood them. I made it clear that I do not believe most Muslims fail to integrate. In fact I said that the perception of their failing to integrate can probably be based upon a few vocal Muslims who have moved to the West then do nothing but criticize its culture and its system of government.

Now that I have explained this view for the third time, do you understand my point yet or do I need to try and rephrase it again?

Salam brother. I can see why you are worried. But from what i have seen, the West is gradually starting to learn more about Islam and appreciating it alot more.

It was alot worse 20 years ago compared to today.

Very true. In my experience it is the ones that know the least about Muslims that fear them the most.

 

[جوري]

Are you claiming I am wrong when I state that Amish were imprisoned and abused during WWI for not joining the military?

You accused me of Googling what I know, now you want me to Google so I can provide links to you? Oh, the irony.

http://www.religioustolerance.org/amish2.htm
And another

If you want more then let me know.

How are you wrong or right on something that I have already previously pointed out which you put in a search engine? Do you need to purge yourself of the most recent intellectual enema?

Thank you. Best laugh I had all day was reading that line.

fits of cachinnation are an ominous sign of schizophrenia, I'd get that checked out along with other disorders that seem to plague you!

Once again you make presumptions about me without knowing anything about me, and once again you are completely wrong. Exactly what makes you think you have the first clue what I believe or what my knowledge is? Is it because I am not a Muslim you automatically consider me ignorant? Or is there some other reason?

Again, we only know about you from what you write.. if you distill a topic down to drafting of a pacifist group and think somehow that ties with 'Islamophobia and atheo-fascism' then what choice have we but to conclude the obvious? If you had something of substance to impart it should rather be visible in your writing.. there are many intelligent non-Muslims on board, I can't qualify you even as mediocre, which is a shame if you are indeed as old as you allege to be.. actual age and your own development of reason seem to be incongruous at best!

I only told you about my degree in response to a comment you made about my ignorance. I was only attempting to show you that your assumption about me was wrong.

But it only served as the final nail in your coffin and it is ironic that you don't see it as such!

As for answering the question "how Muslims fail to integrate", I know you have read my posts but you still haven't understood them. I made it clear that I do not believe most Muslims fail to integrate. In fact I said that the perception of their failing to integrate can probably be based upon a few vocal Muslims who have moved to the West then do nothing but criticize its culture and its system of government.

You don't really get the luxury to change your premise as you go along and when at a loss for logic, and you'd have in fact better off letting the 'iron man' to fight his own battles..

Now that I have explained this view for the third time, do you understand my point yet or do I need to try and rephrase it again?

You can try several more times, you might actually believe you have made a valid one at the end.. as the adage so goes, if a fool persists in his folly he'll become a wise man!

Very true. In my experience it is the ones that know the least about Muslims that fear them the most.

Your experience has indeed impressed upon us..

all the best!

 

[titus]

How are you wrong or right on something that I have already previously pointed out which you put in a search engine?

Let me go over what we said to refresh your memory.

I said that Amish were abused in WWI.
You said something to effect "no, it was another group you ignorant idiot"
I showed that yes, indeed, there were Amish that were abused (without any personal insults).

During this you also stated as a fact that I googled the information (which I didn't or I would have been more detailed), then you googled up some irrelevant information in a poor attempt to prove me wrong.

You don't really get the luxury to change your premise as you go along and when at a loss for logic, and you'd have in fact better off letting the 'iron man' to fight his own battles..

Considering that premise was what I concluded my first post on this topic with I don't see how you claim I changed it. Please read the last couple of paragraphs of my first post again. I have posted it twice.


I tell you what Gossamer. How about we start over. You throw away all these preconceived notions about who and what you think I am or what I believe, I'll throw away mine, and lets have reasonable discussions about topics that interest us on this forum without insulting each other. How does that sound?

 

[جوري]

Let me go over what we said to refresh your memory.

I said that Amish were abused in WWI.
You said something to effect "no, it was another group you ignorant idiot"
I showed that yes, indeed, there were Amish that were abused (without any personal insults).

Rather let me refresh yours:

Originally Posted by tetsujin
There is that sense of "the other" which you will find everywhere. There is also an issue with immigrants who wish to keep their own culture and values but in the process do not take the time to understand the history and culture of the country they've moved to.

Gossamer you should really direct all that drivel to the Amish communities, hutterites, Hasidic Jews, the folks of china town, little Italy etc etc etc.
or is it just Muslims that peeve you for their lack of acclimation or perhaps is that you are a typical brain washed hypocrite from the other end of the spectrum?

to which you later shared your pearls:

I have been to such communities in the US, and I can tell you that they not only keep their culture, but they also assimilate into American culture. They do not cut themselves off.
.

to which I have later asserted, that they were isolated and even persecuted...
hmmmmmm.. I think I'll leave it to the discerning readers to decide!

During this you also stated as a fact that I googled the information (which I didn't or I would have been more detailed), then you googled up some irrelevant information in a poor attempt to prove me wrong.

See above.. plus indeed, you have either haphazardly googled them, assumed the rest of us failed to integrate enough to have seen, visited and bought goods from them first hand and thus your comments would simply fly by, you failed to draw simile between their life style, that of Muslims, how they are better integrated and in which ways Muslims aren't... it is really not that difficult to go back a page and see it unravel?

Considering that premise was what I concluded my first post on this topic with I don't see how you claim I changed it. Please read the last couple of paragraphs of my first post again. I have posted it twice.

I have already commented on all your paragraphs and need not rehash it, simply for writer's remorse!.. we offer no refunds on changing your minds on what your pen--keyboard has uttered!

I tell you what Gossamer. How about we start over. You throw away all these preconceived notions about who and what you think I am or what I believe, I'll throw away mine, and lets have reasonable discussions about topics that interest us on this forum without insulting each other. How does that sound?

I have no preconceived notions about you, I have no idea who you are.. but would indeed like to hit the sac and call it a day..

all the best

 

[titus]

you failed to draw simile between their life style, that of Muslims, how they are better integrated and in which ways Muslims aren't

Maybe that's because I never tried to say that Muslims are not integrated. How difficult is that concept to understand? In fact I have said the exact opposite multiple times.

See above.. plus indeed, you have either haphazardly googled them, assumed the rest of us failed to integrate enough to have seen, visited and bought goods from them first hand and thus your comments would simply fly by, you failed to draw simile between their life style, that of Muslims, how they are better integrated and in which ways Muslims aren't... it is really not that difficult to go back a page and see it unravel?

I did post the difference between the perceptions of the groups you mentioned and the perception of Muslims by some people. It is post #48. Let quote some of it for you:

Again, referring back to what Tetsujin was saying, these groups that you mention differ from the Muslims he was referring to because they do not despise the nation that they now call home.

I also said:

Yet it is not uncommon to see Muslims moving to Western countries, then talking about how they are surrounded by filth, godlessness, depravity, etc. It is not uncommon for Muslims to move to democracies then talk about how bad the democratic system is. You don't see that in Chinatown or Little Italy or even in the Amish communities. These communities respect the system and live within in. They appreciate the freedoms they have, yet at the same time retain the parts of their culture that they want to keep.

How can you possibly say that this is not drawing a comparison between those communities and some in the Muslim community?

I don't recall ever seeing anyone from Chinatown or Little Italy or any Amish person insulting their country the way some Muslims do. You do not see anyone from Chinatown or Little Italy or any Amish asking for a separate legal system for their community. You do see it, though, from a vocal minority of Muslims in some countries, and that is why there is a perception of a lack of integration among some non-Muslims.

Do you deny this is true?

we offer no refunds on changing your minds on what your pen--keyboard has uttered!

Since I have yet to change my mind or contradict myself no refund is required. Sleep tight.