Keep it up Turkey, you know what's best

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When Islaam enters a land, it allows the people to live there without oppression. It doesn't drive them out of their homes unjustly either. Nor does it kill its women, seniors and children, priests and rabbis who are worshipping in their places of worship [in the context of war nor its men at times of peace etc.]

Yet the exact opposite is occuring in Palestine right now and therefore i don't accept it.



Regards.


Occupation is always occupation.It is always bad ! You just don't see that Greeks, Spaniards, Serbs etc etc, just wanted to live in free countries, without occupants. Freedom is important for everyone.

And thats why i am dissapointed that you didnt condemn those occupations.
 
Occupation is always occupation.It is always bad ! You just don't see that Greeks, Spaniards, Serbs etc etc, just wanted to live in free countries, without occupants. Freedom is important for everyone.

And thats why i am dissapointed that you didnt condemn those occupations.


Yes, but when these people force the people to follow their religion - then it becomes binding upon the Muslims to allow them to have a right to learn about the truth and justice about Islaam, and how it is the religion of God Almighty. And if these people don't want to accept - fair enough, since there is no compulsion in religion. However, they shouldn't be forced to follow the religion of the country simply because it is the way of their 'forefathers.' Rather they should have the freedom to choose.


Regards.
 
Yes, but when these people force the people to follow their religion - then it becomes binding upon the Muslims to allow them to have a right to learn about the truth and justice about Islaam, and how it is the religion of God Almighty. And if these people don't want to accept - fair enough, since there is no compulsion in religion. However, they shouldn't be forced to follow the religion of the country simply because it is the way of their 'forefathers.' Rather

Regards.

Here i can agree with you Sabililah ! They should have the freedom to choose. Both christians and muslims.:thumbs_up
 
Here i can agree with you Sabililah ! They should have the freedom to choose. Both christians and muslims.:thumbs_up


Too right! thats what i've been saying all the time. lol

Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.

[Qur'an 2: 256]

Regards.
 
Great. I take it then that you condemn the retrograde practice of making islam the state religion as it is in so many Islamic majority nations.

I applaud your honesty and am secure in the knowledge that when the compulsion to adopt the state mandated religion is removed and people have a choice in their religious views, significant numbers of Moslems in Islamic nations will choose to leave islam. I trust you will support their decision not to adopt the religion of their forefathers and seek enlightenment elsewhere.

I glad we could come to a meeting of the minds.


In an Islamic State, one can practise their religion and apply their law [i.e. in the reign of Umar ibn Al Khattaab (a companion and successor of God's Messenger, Muhammad - peace be upon him) - there were christian and jewish courts, so the people could apply their own law. :)


Regards.
 
I'd have to disagree as we see nothing of the ability for competing religions to exist or thrive in moslem majority nations.

You may be referring to an interpretive or as yet non-existent islam but I’m speaking to the only practical example of islam that we have: reality.



This has been explained by the Messenger of Allaah, peace be upon him:

"The Prophethood will last among you for as long as Allah (God) wills, then Allah would take it away. Then it will be (followed by) a Khilafah [caliphate] Rashida (rightly guided) according to the ways of the Prophethood. It will remain for as long as Allah wills, then Allah would take it away. Afterwards there will be a hereditary leadership which will remain for as long as Allah wills, then He will lift it if He wishes. Afterwards, there will be biting oppression, and it will last for as long as Allah wishes, then He will lift it if He wishes. Then there will be a Khilafah Rashida according to the ways of the Prophethood," then he kept silent.

[recorded in Musnad Imam Ahmad (v/273)]


We're under the underlined stage, and all the events before it have occured in our islamic history. Inshaa'Allaah the rest of the prophecy will soon come into effect.


According to the hadith, the prophet (peace be upon him) will be followed by rightly guided caliphs and after those caliphs (Abu Baker, Omar, Uthman and Ali) will come hereditary leadership (the other Caliphs) and after that will come tyrannical rule (today) and after that will come a rightly guided caliphs yet again inshaa'Allaah.

http://www.islamicboard.com/refutations/40557-rights-dhimmi-non-muslim-muslim-islamic-state.html



We know that it has been applied with justice 14 centuries ago, and we also know that we have a firm set of morals which will remain authentically preserved for us by the will of Allaah, especially since they have been for over 14 centuries now. So once we get the guided Khalifah once again, insha Allaah [God willing] the justice will be applied.



Regards.
 
Ruggedtouch , I would advise you to what this lecture held by Khalid Yasin, it is about Purpose of Life. :) Be patient and whatch it till the end. :)

go the following url . the video is at the bottom of the page.

http://www.harlowmasjid.org/
 
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I don’t see any point in waiting for prophecies to come to fruition. The fact is, we have no solid examples of any prophecies coming true. There are great injustices happening now being perpetrated under the banner of islam: The on-going slaughter of humans in Iraq, the subjugation of women, the banning of competing religions in Islamic nations, the poverty and misery that millions of people are condemned to.

I just don’t understand the mindset of ignoring these injustices under the guise of wishful thinking that a savior may come to sweep away these things. The best way to ameliorate the idea of such injustice and to improving the world is to actively be involved in making this world the kind of world it should be. The onus is on us, not a father in the sky.

If you are comforted by your religious beliefs then there is nothing more to say except that your belief being unsupported and lacking in demonstration may mean you’re living an illusion. I’ve always maintained, I could be wrong, there could be a god. But the answer is exactly the same. Actively be a participant in making this the kind of world that minimizes human suffering. Saying, "it’s impossible" or "man can never achieve that" is clearly surrendering before you even begin. Would it be easy to do? No. Is it possible? Yeah. Of course it is.

Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The answer again is the same -- let's say you spend your entire life making it as good a world as you can -- is your life somehow wasted if there is no god? Does it count against you?


Misconception 10

Islam produces a lazy, uneducated society because:
    • all things come from God, and so fatalism is OK
    • modern technology and science are condemned
The reasons given for this misconception are false, and the misconception itself is actually refuted directly by the Qur'an and Sunnah. While it is true that the Creator is the source of everything to us, it is not true that this can be used as an excuse for humanity to hide behind as the following verses from the Qur'an state (translation),

[16:35] The worshippers of false gods say: "If Allah had so willed, we should not have worshipped anything but Him - neither we nor our fathers,- nor should we have prescribed prohibitions other than His." So did those who went before them. But what is the mission of messengers but to preach the Clear Message?
[43:20] They (the idolators) say, "If it had been the will of (Allah) the Most Merciful, we should not have worshipped such (deities)!" Of that they have no knowledge: they do nothing but lie!


Allah has taught us via the Qur'an and Sunnah that we all have a certain amount of free will. This free will must be exercised properly in accordance with the Qur'an and Sunnah to please the Creator. This is plenty of motivation for all Muslims to push themselves to be the most knowledgeable, effective Muslims they can be. If Muslim societies today are not meeting their potential, it is surely not due to their knowledge of Islam, rather it is their ignorance of this way of life. The importance of seeking knowledge and working are made clear in the Sunnah.


From the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sunan Abu-Dawud, we find:

[9:1637] Narrated Anas ibn Malik: A man of the Ansar came to the Prophet (pbuh) and begged from him.
He (the Prophet) asked: Have you nothing in your house? He replied: Yes, a piece of cloth, a part of which we wear and a part of which we spread (on the ground), and a wooden bowl from which we drink water.​
He said: Bring them to me. He then brought these articles to him and he (the Prophet) took them in his hands and asked: Who will buy these? A man said: I shall buy them for one dirham. He said twice or thrice: Who will offer more than one dirham? A man said: I shall buy them for two dirhams.​
He gave these to him and took the two dirhams and, giving them to the Ansari, he said: Buy food with one of them and hand it to your family, and buy an axe and bring it to me. He then brought it to him. The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) fixed a handle on it with his own hands and said: Go, gather firewood and sell it, and do not let me see you for a fortnight. The man went away and gathered firewood and sold it. When he had earned ten dirhams, he came to him and bought a garment with some of them and food with the others.​
The Apostle of Allah (pbuh) then said: This is better for you than that begging should come as a spot on your face on the Day of Judgment. Begging is right only for three people: one who is in grinding poverty, one who is seriously in debt, or one who is responsible for compensation and finds it difficult to pay.


Also from the Sunnah, specifically in the study of the Sunnah called Sunan Ibn Majah, we find that the Messenger of Allah said:

Seeking knowledge is a duty upon every Muslim.

Knowledge of the Qur'an and Sunnah are clearly the best types of knowledge, and knowledge which benefits humanity is good as well. The Qur'an and Sunnah do not condemn the study of this earth and in fact the Creator encourages us to investigate the world we live in according to the following verse from the Qur'an (translation),


[3:190-191] Behold! in the creation of the heavens and the earth, and the alternation of night and day, there are indeed Signs for people of understanding. People who celebrate the praises of Allah, standing, sitting, and lying down on their sides, and contemplate the (wonders of) creation in the heavens and the earth, (with the thought): "Our Lord! not for nothing have You created (all) this! Glory to You! Give us salvation from the penalty of the Fire."


No, it doesn't.


Yeah it does :)
Qur'an 51: 56. And I (Allâh) created not the jinns and humans except they should worship Me (Alone).

Worship involves anything which helps one draw closer to God, whether thats by being good to the creation to please Him etc. any aspect which draws one closer to God; whether its inwardly or outwardly.

If you use the argument that people should only be good to the creation - one can only do good to the creation by getting these good benefits from God, i.e. wealth to give in charity, or health to be able to support others etc. So one should be thankful to God aswell as the creation.


The Prophet said: 'Whoever does not thank people (for their favors) has not thanked Allah (properly), Mighty and Glorious is He!' (Musnad Ahmad, Sunan At-Tirmidhî)

http://www.islamicboard.com/userpage-user49.html



You, all of us, can contribute to making the world better. Do you really need an eternal reward to invest a few decades to the human condition? Does it all "matter in the end"? No, but it does matter while you're here. And that's good enough.


Yeah, that motivates people to do good because there are also among mankind, people who want to cause corruption on the earth and they do many harmful things and spread evil without fear of consequence.

So why should God be so unjust to let them not taste a punishment for their own wrongdoings? And why shouldn't God reward those who do good to please Him?
And (remember) when your Lord proclaimed: "If you give thanks (by accepting Faith and worshipping none but Allâh), I will give you more (of My Blessings), but if you are thankless (i.e. disbelievers), verily! My Punishment is indeed severe."

[Qur'an Abraham 14: 7]
 
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Ruggedtouch, please take your time and watch that video to the end. :)
 
As you know, I can counter with just as many verses that will contradict those you have posted. Ultimately, you need a threat of eternal punishment to behave correctly. Most people do not.


Sure you can :) then i can explain to you how they fit in right? It's easy to take verses out of context.



Values and ethics aren't faith-derived. In fact, faith causes the utter hopelessness that seems to afflict many of the religious persuasion.If you think otherwise, imagine this: Tomorrow, it is discovered for certain there is no god. Would such information suddenly cause you to steal from me, to harm me, to degrade me?


No it wouldn't since there is no proof that God doesn't exist. Infact i'm sure of it without a doubt. :)


If you answer no, then god isn't needed.

If you answer yes, then you are corrupt and immoral and that is your personality fracture, not morality's weakness.


Again, it's talking about a matter which hasn't got any basis - God does exist, and the majority of the world believes that. The atheists have always been a minority.



I’m always surprised at how theists have such a very bleak view of humanity, and the non-theist has a very positive view of humanity. I have hope for us because one can empirically see progress. One can see the lessening of slavery, an awareness of the environment, a more concerted effort to avoid war, better and faster ways to communicate, the growth of agriculture and medical expertise, and so on-- all based upon technology, all in spite of religious beliefs which do not evolve as man does (though people rewrite the tenets anyway)-- yes, despite the nastiness going on in the world, I have a far more hopeful and brighter expectation for man than many theists do, who ultimately need a god to establish for themselves the very thing that they could establish on their own.


Maybe thats because of your biases? Infact it is Islaam which brought Europe and the rest of the world out of the middle ages, and Islaam is one of the major factors which abolished the slavery system.

If you want proof to know why, here it is:

The Islamic position on Slavery: A refutation of doubts


By the beginning of the ninth century, Muslim Spain was the gem of Europe with its capital city, Cordova. With the establishment of Abdurrahman III - "the great caliphate of Cordova" - came the golden age of Al-Andalus. Cordova, in southern Spain, was the intellectual center of Europe.

spain4.jpg



At a time when London was a tiny mud-hut village that "could not boast of a single streetlamp" (Digest, 1973, p. 622), in Cordova
"there were half a million inhabitants, living in 113,000 houses. There were 700 mosques and 300 public baths spread throughout the city and its twenty-one suburbs. The streets were paved and lit." (Burke, 1985, p. 38)


The houses had marble balconies for summer and hot-air ducts under the mosaic floors for the winter. They were adorned with gardens with artificial fountains and orchards". (Digest, 1973, p. 622) "Paper, a material still unknown to the west, was everywhere. There were bookshops and more than seventy libraries." (Burke, 1985, p. 38).


Muslim Spain and European Culture



So in reality, its the theists who took the people out of the darkness of misguidance and greed into the light of the New Ages which we see. And that is all by the will of Allaah, the All Powerful, Most Gracious.



Regards.
 
you say that turkey should recognise so-callled armenian genocide....ı cant believe this.....do you believe that a muslim state(ottoman empire who spreaded and pioneered islam for 600 years) can do such a genocide,can kill so many people....when ı read your post ı understand again and again why muslim are so weak in world...:cry: my muslim brother believes in armanians but not turks

Turks should recognise Armenian genocide, Armenians should recognise Azeri genocide and French should recognise Algerian genocide....

It doesnt hurt to say "SORRY"
 
Turks should recognise Armenian genocide, Armenians should recognise Azeri genocide and French should recognise Algerian genocide....

It doesnt hurt to say "SORRY"

yuhuuuuuuu, brother, if we start saying that we should say sorry to each other, then there is hell a lot of countries that need to apologise each other :p
 
Turks should recognise Armenian genocide, Armenians should recognise Azeri genocide and French should recognise Algerian genocide....

It doesnt hurt to say "SORRY"

turkey will never recognise so-called armenian genocide....because it is a big lie...each of the ottoman empires was a true lover of our prophet mohammed..theır only aim was to spread islam...a man loving islam so much cannot kill anybody..armenians were a truly trusted nation in ottoman empire but they hit us from our backs...they killed so many turks ın eastern anatolia..turkey offers armenia to open historical arcihves but armenians refuses this ,dou you think why?
 
Final Warning

I'm very close to locking this thread unless various people stop getting sidetracked.
 
What freedom?! Are you deaf and blind?! Muslim women can't even go to university or work in public offices with out sacrificing their head scarfs!

Is that what you call freedom?!

it doesn't matter, the freedom that these secularist offer is like those cheap cheap watches, that are painted on gold, that if you drop it on the floor, the gold paint will go off and you will see just a plain copper :P , so when it comes to the rights of muslim they do it like that.

the thing is that the software freedom does not include Islam, you gotta update islam to a newer version (i think it's moderate islam)or maybe buy a different software :P and also you gotta pay money for this.

i think the issue with turkey and many countries like turkey that drop their identity in order to please some one who is destroying them would very good described with what benjamin franklin said:
"those who give the core of freedom for a piece of security, they deserve neither freedom nor security".
 
If you answer no, then god isn't needed.

How can you not need God when He is the One who created you and created this Earth, from which you find your sustenance and shelter?

If you are going to so audacious as to claim that you don't need him, at least be mannered enough to return everything He has blessed you with- starting with your body. I would suggest that you take your soul off to a vacuum but then again God created that vacuum and soul in the first place. :rollseyes
 

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