Keep it up Turkey, you know what's best

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i agree - so if the majority of people want a more islamic-friendly government, why shouldn't they get it?
(no one is seriously talking about establishing shariah - merely about having a government less hostile to religion.

There is no reason that they shouldnt get it, it is an injustice to the people there if they dont. The US and the EU has already said that it disagrees with the militaries intent to overthrow such a thing, along with many others in the world
 
I'm not quite sure it was the people's decision, but only that of Jacques Chirac. Secondly, I'm not talking about the face veil, only the heardscarf, which is the exact same thing that nuns wear.

How is that a threat to security or offensive to anyone? In Egypt, where Muslims are the vast majority, we have a lot of Christians with us in schools and stuff and they proudly display their golden necklaces with crosses and nobody has a problem with it.

In a secular government, where anyone is supposedly allowed to follow their religion how they like, what happens if the majority of the people, like you said, vote and decide against a thing such as a headscarf? How are the rights of the minority protected in that case? Obvioulsly from what we've seen in France, they're not. Which says a lot about the kind of democracy they have...

I dont personally think that the headscarf is a security threat to anyone, and I thought that only the niqaab was banned in France. As far as other countries go with their tolerance, the same could be said of the US, no one here says anything to Muslims about their dress, the US is actually extremely tolerant to all religions and people, but that has nothing to do with France or Turkey. As far as the situation in Turkey and France where certain aspects of people religion are being infringed upon, all I can really say is that we live in a strange day. People use their religion to cause terror and destruction, that religion that is being used happens to be Islam. It is sad to say but in order to insure the safety of people the root of the problem has to be addressed, only when these attacks and hate messages go away will the world stop looking at Muslims as trouble making terrorist. Can you blame the rest of the world? There is no nation to attack, there is no one person, there are people lurking in the shadow of Islam waiting to attack and kill mass numbers of people. Security measures have to be taken, and if that means infringing on the rights of Muslims, then Muslims had best start thinking of a way to reverse the mindset of the rest of the world, and the only way that can be done is to get people to quit using your religion to justify violence. Turkey may be taking it to far and for different reasons but if the image of Islam were to change I bet it would make a huge difference for that countries people.
 
MTAFFI said:
I dont personally think that the headscarf is a security threat to anyone, and I thought that only the niqaab was banned in France. As far as other countries go with their tolerance, the same could be said of the US, no one here says anything to Muslims about their dress, the US is actually extremely tolerant to all religions and people, but that has nothing to do with France or Turkey. As far as the situation in Turkey and France where certain aspects of people religion are being infringed upon, all I can really say is that we live in a strange day. People use their religion to cause terror and destruction, that religion that is being used happens to be Islam. It is sad to say but in order to insure the safety of people the root of the problem has to be addressed, only when these attacks and hate messages go away will the world stop looking at Muslims as trouble making terrorist. Can you blame the rest of the world? There is no nation to attack, there is no one person, there are people lurking in the shadow of Islam waiting to attack and kill mass numbers of people. Security measures have to be taken, and if that means infringing on the rights of Muslims, then Muslims had best start thinking of a way to reverse the mindset of the rest of the world, and the only way that can be done is to get people to quit using your religion to justify violence. Turkey may be taking it to far and for different reasons but if the image of Islam were to change I bet it would make a huge difference for that countries people.
I fail to see the relationship between terrorism and women wearing a headscarf. If a group of Muslims are carrying out those acts, what do French schoolgirls have to do with it? Moreover what does it have to do with the way they dress?? Is it a form of unjust retaliation, "Oh your Muslim brothers are causing mischief all around the world, so I'm gonna take it out on you." That's not doing anything positive, in fact it's even fuelling the terrorists to hate the west and their secular ways even more. So the French are going against their own belief system of allowing people to practice their faith freely in order to give their enemies more motivation to carry out further attacks. Is that insane or what??

As far as I know, it's not only France and Turkey that are banning the headscarf, although they are the two (supposedly) most civilized countries to do so. Others I know of are Tunisia, which have also banned it from certain places, and Egypt, which doesn't allow it to we worn on TV. Muslim countries trying to suck up to their secular big brothers...pathetic.
 
Muslim countries trying to suck up to their secular big brothers...pathetic.

assalamualeykum brothers and sisiters...

to tell u the truth i am crying right now.

i am not offended by any one individuals writings. the above is just an example. it is the whole attitude some people in here have collaborated against Turkey.

As an extremely proud, non- rascist Turkish Muslim (in no specific order what so ever), i would like to invite all of you to please, wipe out the stupid thoughts you have on the democratic country iteself and the muslim turks living in it.

Do not ever ever ever ever make any judgments on the place or the situation within it without going there, and staying there for a considerable period...

off course, everyone has a right to his/her opinion. if wiping it out is a little extreme, then maybe one should consider altering it.

i admit the fact that the turks there have gone a little stupid with their absolutely inaccurate implementation of secularism, but believe me, those protestors are people being induced by the wrong powers who have unfortunately taken a little too much control of the Turkish government. and might i add that a high number of those protestors were not even turkish...greeks, armenians, all sorts of turkish citizens who are being pushed to believe that Abdullah gul is an extremist muslim undercover which can be seen by the fcat that he isnt forcing his wife to take the hijab off.

no.Turkey has not yet joined the EU. and the eu is not only about the hijab in turkey. why do we fail to see what a great historic expression it will be for a country with a 99% muslim population, where the adhan is heard five times everyday, where, everywhere except istanbul and some other hot rod cities, are full of unbelievably islamic and God worshiping muslims joins a global institution like the EU. why do we fail to see the fact that Turkey has a recorded population of 80million people and we get caught up by a bunch off idiots, barely turkish, barely muslim, on tv news, chanting absolute bollocks...

Turkey is having rough times...it may no longer be the Ottoman Empire...but it is practically one of the only muslim countries which is civil enough, refined enough, or practical enough to maybe, just maybe push forward in this western mainstream consumerist world we live in.

islam is not only wearing a hijab and praying and chanting Gods glorious names. Turkey is an islamic country.muslims are predominant there and they always will be.the adhan will always be heard there (inshallah)...and we need your duas....

that is all...

May Allah guide all your thoughts...
wassalam.
 
assalamualeykum brothers and sisiters...

to tell u the truth i am crying right now.

i am not offended by any one individuals writings. the above is just an example. it is the whole attitude some people in here have collaborated against Turkey.

As an extremely proud, non- rascist Turkish Muslim (in no specific order what so ever), i would like to invite all of you to please, wipe out the stupid thoughts you have on the democratic country iteself and the muslim turks living in it.

Do not ever ever ever ever make any judgments on the place or the situation within it without going there, and staying there for a considerable period...

off course, everyone has a right to his/her opinion. if wiping it out is a little extreme, then maybe one should consider altering it.

i admit the fact that the turks there have gone a little stupid with their absolutely inaccurate implementation of secularism, but believe me, those protestors are people being induced by the wrong powers who have unfortunately taken a little too much control of the Turkish government. and might i add that a high number of those protestors were not even turkish...greeks, armenians, all sorts of turkish citizens who are being pushed to believe that Abdullah gul is an extremist muslim undercover which can be seen by the fcat that he isnt forcing his wife to take the hijab off.

no.Turkey has not yet joined the EU. and the eu is not only about the hijab in turkey. why do we fail to see what a great historic expression it will be for a country with a 99% muslim population, where the adhan is heard five times everyday, where, everywhere except istanbul and some other hot rod cities, are full of unbelievably islamic and God worshiping muslims joins a global institution like the EU. why do we fail to see the fact that Turkey has a recorded population of 80million people and we get caught up by a bunch off idiots, barely turkish, barely muslim, on tv news, chanting absolute bollocks...

Turkey is having rough times...it may no longer be the Ottoman Empire...but it is practically one of the only muslim countries which is civil enough, refined enough, or practical enough to maybe, just maybe push forward in this western mainstream consumerist world we live in.

islam is not only wearing a hijab and praying and chanting Gods glorious names. Turkey is an islamic country.muslims are predominant there and they always will be.the adhan will always be heard there (inshallah)...and we need your duas....

that is all...

May Allah guide all your thoughts...
wassalam.

jazakallah khair sis, very very good post.

ameen to the dua.
 
Turkey is having rough times...it may no longer be the Ottoman Empire...but it is practically one of the only muslim countries which is civil enough, refined enough, or practical enough to maybe, just maybe push forward in this western mainstream consumerist world we live in.

:sl:

I might be missing something here, so please correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they trying to do this by suppressing the influence of Islam in Turkey and becoming increasingly secular?:?

If so, how can that possibly be a good thing?
 
:sl:

I might be missing something here, so please correct me if I am wrong, but aren't they trying to do this by suppressing the influence of Islam in Turkey and becoming increasingly secular?:?

If so, how can that possibly be a good thing?

salams sis,

it has already become as stupidly secular as it can get...trust me. they outdone themselves. they cannot increase it, there is so much happening in turkey. My friends had to throw their laptops into the bin coz it was full of religious stuff and the "govt. police" kept breaking in to suspicious homes and taking away people who seemed as though were serving 'an islamic state agenda"...

Not one single muslim on earth can argue that this is a good thing. But in every ounce of work which Allah permitts, there is khayr. And to find and see Allahs wisdom and khayr workings behind what we percieve as bad is our job.

Today, istanbul and other so called 'westish' cities in turkey are losing their islamic identity...they want to lose it. But what we musnt forget is that besides those little cities which actually account for so little, turkey is islamic.once the people get what they want (join the EU blah blah blah), then the officials can work in the other direction and regain what so many true turks and muslims lost.

i dont know if you can see it the way i do...but i guess you just need a lot more political and social background on democratic turkey and islamic turkey as seperate entities.

salams...
 
it has already become as stupidly secular as it can get...trust me. they outdone themselves. they cannot increase it, there is so much happening in turkey. My friends had to throw their laptops into the bin coz it was full of religious stuff and the "govt. police" kept breaking in to suspicious homes and taking away people who seemed as though were serving 'an islamic state agenda"...

:sl:

Wow, I didn't know it was so bad. imsad

once the people get what they want (join the EU blah blah blah), then the officials can work in the other direction and regain what so many true turks and muslims lost.

Isn't that being a bit hopeful? :? I personally can't imagine that happening.
 
it's so sad that Gul resigned :(

i agree...all my dreams were shattered. if anyone was going to drive turkey through the filth of the EU agenda, then park it in the safest islamic space available, it was him.

i want to go to my country and study there. but i cant.

May Allah lead the Turkish govt. into khayr no matter what the results of this election may be.
 
i really dont think its that hopeful sis, coz theyre not fighting against any external powers anymore. there arent any external influences to be served. so everyone is content. then, they only have their own people to influence, and its not so hard when your the one who had achieved the impossible. the people of turkey will have to salute the govt head who achieves something like joining the EU. they cannot label them as being islamist or anything. coz they have already proven that they are pro-west and would have achieved standards of living, international affairs and connections like never before.





:sl:

Wow, I didn't know it was so bad. imsad



Isn't that being a bit hopeful? :? I personally can't imagine that happening.
 
assalamualeykum brothers and sisiters...

to tell u the truth i am crying right now.

i am not offended by any one individuals writings. the above is just an example. it is the whole attitude some people in here have collaborated against Turkey.

As an extremely proud, non- rascist Turkish Muslim (in no specific order what so ever), i would like to invite all of you to please, wipe out the stupid thoughts you have on the democratic country iteself and the muslim turks living in it.

Do not ever ever ever ever make any judgments on the place or the situation within it without going there, and staying there for a considerable period...

off course, everyone has a right to his/her opinion. if wiping it out is a little extreme, then maybe one should consider altering it.

i admit the fact that the turks there have gone a little stupid with their absolutely inaccurate implementation of secularism, but believe me, those protestors are people being induced by the wrong powers who have unfortunately taken a little too much control of the Turkish government. and might i add that a high number of those protestors were not even turkish...greeks, armenians, all sorts of turkish citizens who are being pushed to believe that Abdullah gul is an extremist muslim undercover which can be seen by the fcat that he isnt forcing his wife to take the hijab off.

no.Turkey has not yet joined the EU. and the eu is not only about the hijab in turkey. why do we fail to see what a great historic expression it will be for a country with a 99% muslim population, where the adhan is heard five times everyday, where, everywhere except istanbul and some other hot rod cities, are full of unbelievably islamic and God worshiping muslims joins a global institution like the EU. why do we fail to see the fact that Turkey has a recorded population of 80million people and we get caught up by a bunch off idiots, barely turkish, barely muslim, on tv news, chanting absolute bollocks...

Turkey is having rough times...it may no longer be the Ottoman Empire...but it is practically one of the only muslim countries which is civil enough, refined enough, or practical enough to maybe, just maybe push forward in this western mainstream consumerist world we live in.

islam is not only wearing a hijab and praying and chanting Gods glorious names. Turkey is an islamic country.muslims are predominant there and they always will be.the adhan will always be heard there (inshallah)...and we need your duas....

that is all...

May Allah guide all your thoughts...
wassalam.


va aleykum selam sister,

im thankful to you as a muslim turk,
you said what i tried to say,,,

but u said''except istanbul'',,this made me sad,even in istanbul,among 15 million people,there are millions of muslims,who cares haram-helal n trying to live in an islamic way...

and also,we need to be strong n hopeful,,
think that 200 years ago,if someone would have said that one day ottomans will be over,no one would believe him...but it happened...

thats the only thng which i wanted to say,

and the situation of turkiye is not that bad,(except the hijab problem in schools) we can believe n woreship however we want,alhamdulillah...this is a big 'nimat' for us....50-60 years ago turkiye was worse than ever...it was totaly forbidden to do anythng which concerned islam...even ezan was in turkish!


the world needs a big, developed,strong,civilized,rich islamic country...it will be like a sun which will pull the other muslims as planets.then the unition can be possible again..
im hopeful,,may Allah help us all inshaAllah...amin.

salam n du'a...
 
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^I agree with all of what you said.

Turkey is very close to my heart, and despite all that is said about it I will say that turkish ppl are the most wonderful and warmest ppl i have met.
 
^I agree with all of what you said.

Turkey is very close to my heart, and despite all that is said about it I will say that turkish ppl are the most wonderful and warmest ppl i have met.

slm,
As a muslim from Turkey thank you for your thoughts. I'm realy very anxious about the elections. As you know it was said that 'You'll be directed as how you are'
 
va aleykum selam sister,

im thankful to you as a muslim turk,
you said what i tried to say,,,

but u said''except istanbul'',,this made me sad,even in istanbul,among 15 million people,there are millions of muslims,who cares haram-helal n trying to live in an islamic way...

and also,we need to be strong n hopeful,,
think that 200 years ago,if someone would have said that one day ottomans will be over,no one would believe him...but it happened...

thats the only thng which i wanted to say,

and the situation of turkiye is not that bad,(except the hijab problem in schools) we can believe n woreship however we want,alhamdulillah...this is a big 'nimat' for us....50-60 years ago turkiye was worse than ever...it was totaly forbidden to do anythng which concerned islam...even ezan was in turkish!


the world needs a big, developed,strong,civilized,rich islamic country...it will be like a sun which will pull the other muslims as planets.then the unition can be possible again..
im hopeful,,may Allah help us all inshaAllah...amin.

salam n du'a...

salamz brother...

what i meant by 'istanbul' was not the individuals living there...ifd there was one place for me to choose to live it would be istanbul, then probably anywhere in belgium...

what i meant by istanbul, and im sorry for the misunderstanding, is the 'socio-economic istanbul' the 'context' or perhaps even the 'concept' of istanbul.
 
slm,
As a muslim from Turkey thank you for your thoughts. I'm realy very anxious about the elections. As you know it was said that 'You'll be directed as how you are'

how do you feel, as a turk living in turkiye, about the elections?
 
sumeyye said:
once the people get what they want (join the EU blah blah blah), then the officials can work in the other direction and regain what so many true turks and muslims lost
It's really funny how life works sometimes. Give people enough freedom and they will go in one of two directions. Either they will go as far as they can in exercising their freedom (the majority) or they will choose to use this freedom only to practice their religion freely while sticking to the boundaries permitted by their faith (the minority).

I think an economic standard also plays a big role in this. Let's say Turkey joins the EU and becomes stronger economically. Better economy means better living and better education. Will this cause people to come closer to Islam or tempt more and more people to distance themselves from it? It's a hard question to answer. Some might say that if you have better education, especially Islamic education (and no I don't mean indoctrination) that you would be more attracted to the Islamic life because you can see the truth and feel the spirit of Islam more than the people who don't know much about it. On the other hand, if the education system continues to promote secular ideals while banning religious displays in their schools and colleges, you're bound to have less and less people interested in any kind of religion.

Another point of view is that which I think is going on in places like America now. People have everything they want in their lives so they look for more, spiritually, this in some cases leads them to Islam. Perhaps Turkey will become like that.

I know some people that went to Turkey and told me about the Islam over there, which to me highly resembles the kind of Islam found in Bosnia, which I've seen first hand. If things are really looking like that, then I don't see anything positive about it at all. You might hear the athan 5 times a day, but how many people really "hear" it, and how many people just hear it a nuisance, like an annoying fly that just won't go away, and how many people don't even notice it? And here's one...how many people actually respond to it? More and more young people will be attracted to secular, liberal life, because it's the kind of life that shaytan tells them is good and will make them happy, while the religious people will slowly get their rights taken away one by one until they can't stand living where they do and emigrate elsewhere. The only way to return Islam to Turkey is to organize the situation real good so that more people have access to Islamic teachings, have Islamically-oriented community events (all the time), learn about Islam in public schools while letting people dress how they want, as well as putting some restrictions in the media -- to not be so liberal.

Either that or re-conquer it with an Islamic army :P
 

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