Killing of First Born In Moses' Egypt:What's the problem???

Pygoscelis said:
This is sick.

How can anybody try to justify such attrocities as killing all the first born of a whole nation?

And according to the bible story, the jewish monster god "hardened the pharoah's heart", he ARRANGED it so the pharoah wouldn't set the israelis free.
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You sound really ridiculous when you say " this is sick". Death is merely the parting of the soul from the body. Sooner or later, everyone will die and it is up to Allah to choose when and how we die, he knows best.

I can understand why you would think it is sick. Being an atheist like yourself, death is the end of everything, and people blink out of existence right? Nothing more than shadows and dust?

Anyways, I have found my answers. I will say this though, do not think that you could suppose that your "justice" is greater than Allah's. Perhaps the corrupters of the old testament made out Allah to be vicious, who knows what they changed. The fact is Allah knows best and not us.
 
barney said:
Gator the "Hit Squad" hypothisis wasnt just a few Jewish terrorists. It's more like the Mahdi Army in Bagdad last year, but more organised and on a bigger scale. Like Krystalnacht in the 1930's Nazi Germany.
I dont think evry firstborn Egyptian was killed....think about it, that would destroy the population for years to come, and I'm not aware of the Egyptians even mentioning it which seems unbeleivable, unless the records were destroyed in the Libary of Alexandria.

I think over several days a Mhadi Army style force of several hundred or a couple of Thousand carried out daily slaughter and turned Egypts cities into no-go areas, where Egyptians were massacred in their own homes. Perhaps sevaral thousand died.
It's the only logical explaination why the jews would paint their doors with a bloody mark. What Angel of Death is going to flap over a house going, "Oops, nearly diddnt see that house down there was jewish....my bad". An Angel of Death knows the names ages and DNA structure of all occupants of all houses in the world. Whats with a mark on the door?
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Symbolic I presume, a clear reminder to the other people.
 
I can't fathom the Bible or the Quran, I just respect it as my Scriptures tell me to. Allah knows best.
 
Greetings and peace be with you all,

God hardened the hearts of Pharaoh with good old greed and power. If Pharaoh let the Jews go he would lose all this virtually free slave labour.

God asked the Jews to mark their front doors so their first born would not be killed. This was for the Jews benefit and not God’s, they were obeying God and doing something. Jews today still leave a note of God’s commands in their front door and gate.

I do not think that a subdued nation of Jewish slaves would have the might to strike down the first born of the Egyptians.

As to God killing all the first born, he can still put this right in a greater good life after death.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God,

Eric
 
Eric H said:
Greetings and peace be with you all,

God hardened the hearts of Pharaoh with good old greed and power. If Pharaoh let the Jews go he would lose all this virtually free slave labour.

God asked the Jews to mark their front doors so their first born would not be killed. This was for the Jews benefit and not God’s, they were obeying God and doing something. Jews today still leave a note of God’s commands in their front door and gate.

I do not think that a subdued nation of Jewish slaves would have the might to strike down the first born of the Egyptians.

As to God killing all the first born, he can still put this right in a greater good life after death.

In the spirit of praying to a loving and merciful God,

Eric
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Therein lay their misdirected problems. They say why couldn't Allah soften his heart instead? I believe that the Pharoh's heart was already hardened and fell out of favor ( for obvious reasons ) from Allah and so was doomed. Allah guides whom he will and misguided whom he will. He placed us with tasks to do in this world and when we abuse our free will and turn away from him Allah punishes us. You sin enough and you may pass by the point of no reutrn.
 
Maybe the view stems from the presupposition that this life is all we have?
 
That you people can look favourably upon horrible acts of this God that are on par with genocide makes me wonder if there is ANYTHING this God could do or say that you could find distasteful. Is there no attrocity you could not smile upon by declaring it God's will?
.
 
Pygoscelis said:
That you people can look favourably upon horrible acts of this God that are on par with genocide makes me wonder if there is ANYTHING this God could do or say that you could find distasteful. Is there no attrocity you could not smile upon by declaring it God's will?
.
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It's all perception, mate. You are used to human form of justice - this is completely different to God's form of justice. And since justice relies on perception, God's justice will always trump the human form of justice. However, I can understand why one would vehimently disagree with God's justice system but if one has the faith (not the same as blind faith) it is easy to agree with it.
 
I'll take that as a no? There is no attrocity you'd not find acceptable if you believed it to be God's will?
 
Pygoscelis said:
I'll take that as a no? There is no attrocity you'd not find acceptable if you believed it to be God's will?
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Depends on one's views as to what it means to be a Muslim.

If it's your own child, it's a test. If it's your neighbor's child, it's a warning/sign. If it's your enemy's child, it's justice.

Allah can only be praised, even when prayers aren't answered.
 
Greetings and peace be with you tetsujin;

Depends on one's views as to what it means to be a Muslim.

If it's your own child, it's a test. If it's your neighbor's child, it's a warning/sign. If it's your enemy's child, it's justice.

Allah can only be praised, even when prayers aren't answered
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You might think this is how Muslims should be, but have you read the signature at the bottom of aamirsaab’s posts?

Someone said to the Prophet, "Pray to God against the idolaters and curse them." The Prophet replied, "I have been sent to show mercy and have not been sent to curse." (Muslim)
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''If you only have love for your own race. You only leave space to discriminate. When you discriminate, it only generates hate. And when ya hate, ya bound to get irate''
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In the spirit of praying for greater interfaith friendship.

Eric
 
Greetings and peace be with you Pygoscelis;
I'll take that as a no? There is no attrocity you'd not find acceptable if you believed it to be God's will?
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God is fair and just to all people, we are not fair and just to each other. God’s justice favours the poor and oppressed, man’s justice seems to favour the strong and the rich.
Although I cannot know how God works; I trust fully that he is fair and just to all people. He has the power to put all things right in a greater good life after death.

In the spirit of praying to a just and loving God.

Eric
 
:sl:
Eric H pretty much said it all. I do recall a thread pygoscelis made a few months back, in which we spoke about trusting in God (I used a parent analogy to explain the relationship between myself and God) but the thread got deleted when the forum crashed.

I'll reiterate the point I made in that thread: to me, God is like a parental figure - no matter what action He performs it is always just and correct (He's doing things that are for the betterment of His creations), though we do not always see it that way (e.g the events of sodom and Ghamora, the punishments towards the people of Egypt during the time of moses etc). It does take time to put your faith and trust into God - when you finally have that trust though, it is much easier to understand His actions.
 
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Pygoscelis said:
I'll take that as a no? There is no attrocity you'd not find acceptable if you believed it to be God's will?
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Man you're so stubborn ( I am too but meh). Atrocity this, atrocity that. God takes the lives of people everyday through natural death, why is THAT not an atrocity? God takes the lives of people back to him in others ways and then suddenly THAT is an atrocity. Very narrow minded if u ask me. God's justice>your justice, your job is to focus on what Allah gave you and leave the runnings of life and death to him. Unless, of course u think u can do it better, but that would be preeeetty arrogant huh?
 
I think this provides us with a glimpse into the mind of the suicide bomber, crusader, and witch burner. I find the notion that any horrible act is turned good by believing it to be God's will, to be a very dangerous mindset. Just sayin.
 
aamirsaab said:
:sl:
Eric H pretty much said it all. I do recall a thread pygoscelis made a few months back, in which we spoke about trusting in God (I used a parent analogy to explain the relationship between myself and God) but the thread got deleted when the forum crashed.

I'll reiterate the point I made in that thread: to me, God is like a parental figure - no matter what action He performs it is always just and correct (He's doing things that are for the betterment of His creations), though we do not always see it that way (e.g the events of sodom and Ghamora, the punishments towards the people of Egypt during the time of moses etc). It does take time to put your faith and trust into God - when you finally have that trust though, it is much easier to understand His actions.
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As a Christian I agree with your statement, aamirsaab.
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but this is the first time I hear a Muslim compare his relationship with God to a parent-child relationship.

I have heard Muslims refer to Allah as a much more distant God, one which one would hardly dare to have a personal relationship with, let alone look upon as a parental figure ... I always assumed that was the general view of God in Islam.
Your words are making me wonder now ...

Salaam :)
 
Pygoscelis said:
I think this provides us with a glimpse into the mind of the suicide bomber, crusader, and witch burner. I find the notion that any horrible act is turned good by believing it to be God's will, to be a very dangerous mindset. Just sayin.
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Again, those suicide bombers, crusaders etc acts are disproven and unsupported by the very books they claim to follow. Following a book truthfully and following a book falsely are two different things so your point FAILS. If you following the true religion by the rules, you're acts cannot be wrong.
 
glo said:
As a Christian I agree with your statement, aamirsaab.
I hope you don't mind me saying so, but this is the first time I hear a Muslim compare his relationship with God to a parent-child relationship.

I have heard Muslims refer to Allah as a much more distant God, one which one would hardly dare to have a personal relationship with, let alone look upon as a parental figure ... I always assumed that was the general view of God in Islam.
Your words are making me wonder now ...

Salaam :)
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Honestly there is nothing to wonder about. Allah can be compared to a parental figure in some ways but by no means in the ways which imply that we are his sons/daughters. Allah cares for his crations, whether they are birds, trees, humans, zebras...uh hedgehogs etc. I think he is simply pointing to the positive relationship that exists between the two beings. In no way is Allah a distant God jsut because we don't say taht we are his sons/daughter doesnt mean we dont have a personal relationship with him.
 
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AntiKarateKid said:
Again, those suicide bombers, crusaders etc acts are disproven and unsupported by the very books they claim to follow. Following a book truthfully and following a book falsely are two different things so your point FAILS. If you following the true religion by the rules, you're acts cannot be wrong.
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But nobody thinks they are wrong. It doesn't matter if they are following the god or even if the God exists, so long as they THINK they are following the god, this mentality leads to such horrible things.
 

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