Music in worship

[serena77]

salaam -

okay... i'm new.. ive not reverted yet... but... i have a question and if it was answered in this thread or in another and i missed it, my most humble apologies.. i'm still trying to navigate the site. and there is a lot to go through, but...
Are nasheeds considered music? if no instruments are they wrong.... or unislamic. Its odd ...because i was raised a fiddle player... teaching myself the guitar.... while I have played in church .... for me the fiddle is ... well i have my own no religious reasons for it..... but anyway.... Nasheeds are so beautiful.... and in a sense they have helped draw me closer to Islam. They are beautiful... and maybe due to the religious life i've had to this point... they bring me closer to God ... they have taught me about islam... even if its just teaching me about how important it is to listen and not let the everyday world get to you... so... Nasheeds are okay as long as no music.. or with a drum?

There seem to be so many different schools of thought... how does on even keep them straight?
I hope the question makes sense , work was stressful to say the least and so i'm having trouble being clear, and my sincere apologies if i step on any toes...

Serena

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Peace to you

Prayer is any communication between God and human beings. Several postures are fine for prayer. Jesus also prayed to the Father while standing with his hands raised. When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. (Luke 24:51). Jesus also prayed to the Father while sitting on the dining table. While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." (Matthew 26:26) Many Christians (including me) often like to pray with our hands lifted high above, and with our face toward the heaven longing to meet and see our Creator. Some Christians like praying to God in prostration. I have no problem with that. Worshiping is enjoying God as much as we can, and expressing our joy and thanks in most genuine ways. The heart of the matter is the matter of heart, not the matter of posture.

How ironic "Jesus prayed to the Father while standing with his hands raised"! As Muslims we know that Jesus (Pbuh) raised his hands to God Allmighty and praised him. As muslims we raise our hands when asking Allaah Allmighty your creator and mine.

But did God ask you to dance and sing to praise him? Yes i indeed enjoy standing infront of Allmighty God and praising him but honestly i could never see the creator of the Universe being worshipped in such way. We can also enjoy worshipping God without singing.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

They may sound beautiful, but they are neither song nor music. We beautify the Qur'an with our voices to give it due honour and to distinguish it from any other book. Not even ahadeeth are read in that fashion. It is not sung. If you listen to recitations of the Qur'an, while the sounds may be melodious and enjoyable, they are quite distinct from songs and singing. We don't say we are going to sing the Qur'an, we recite the Qur'an. If we were to take (for argument's sake just to illustrate my meaning) the example of "singing without music", I think this is what everybody understands music to be: the use of instruments. So just because something sounds nice, doesn't make it music. And recitation in a nice tone doesn't equate to singing.

Qur'an recitations consist of organised sound with fixed pitches and rhythmic effects which derive from the poetic language. They fit the definition of 'song' as well as any purely vocal music, such as Gregorian chant or other a capella performances. All responses to the recitation that you feel that are not directly related to the textual content or personal feelings towards the reciter are the effects of music.

Peace

 

[Insaanah]

Worshiping is enjoying God as much as we can, and expressing our joy and thanks in most genuine ways.

Christians seem to worship God with joy only, whereas Muslims worship with a combination of love, hope and fear. The prayer itself in the ahadeeth has been described as a joy and a sweetness for the eyes.

It seems that Christians believe that loving God means not having any fear, and instead they should "enjoy a state of permanent forgiveness". This is where it must be pointed out that love on its own becomes an extreme, to the extent that it gives one a false sense of security against God's Wrath. It opens the way for one to do as he pleases instead of doing what is required - submitting to God's Will.

One of the most beautiful things about the concept of worship in Islaam is the truly unique way in which it incorporates the feeling of love, fear and hope within the hearts of the worshippers of Allaah.

Love of Allaah, hope in His Mercy and fear of His Punishment.

Love and gratitude for the one who has given us so much that we could not enumerate it if we tried.

Hope in He Who is full of Mercy, that He will forgive our mistakes and shortcomings on the Day, when all of humanity shall stand before Allaah account for their sins, knowing that not even the smallest action which they did is hidden from Allaah.

Fear that we may incur punishment by doing wrong.

The love makes us do what is prescribed with an open heart and makes us thankful, the fear checks us from sinning, and the hope keeps us going when we have sinned.

The heart of the matter is the matter of heart, not the matter of posture.

The heart of the matter is obeying God, worshipping Him alone, in the way that He taught us, and not deviating from that by one iota.

Peace.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

salaam -

okay... i'm new.. ive not reverted yet... but... i have a question and if it was answered in this thread or in another and i missed it, my most humble apologies.. i'm still trying to navigate the site. and there is a lot to go through, but...
Are nasheeds considered music? if no instruments are they wrong.... or unislamic. Its odd ...because i was raised a fiddle player... teaching myself the guitar.... while I have played in church .... for me the fiddle is ... well i have my own no religious reasons for it..... but anyway.... Nasheeds are so beautiful.... and in a sense they have helped draw me closer to Islam. They are beautiful... and maybe due to the religious life i've had to this point... they bring me closer to God ... they have taught me about islam... even if its just teaching me about how important it is to listen and not let the everyday world get to you... so... Nasheeds are okay as long as no music.. or with a drum?

There seem to be so many different schools of thought... how does on even keep them straight?
I hope the question makes sense , work was stressful to say the least and so i'm having trouble being clear, and my sincere apologies if i step on any toes...

Serena

Wa Alaaykum Salaam Serena

May Allaah guide you to the righteous path Ameen

Firstly you must know that the nasheeds that contain instruments are considered forbidden, no they are not wrong if they do not have instruments.

According to Quran and Sunnah musical instruments are forbidden, and keep in mind Music meaning an act that takes you away from the remembrance of your Lord as from my experience music does that very well. i call it the tool of Shaytaan.

As Muslims we are the followers of Islaam, and the Prophet Muhammad (May the peace and blessings of Allaah be unto him) was a perfect example set for mankind to follow. So what did in his life we do that, as God has displayed him as a good example for us to follow

as mentioned in this Ayah: "And We have not sent you except as a mercy to mankind"(Al Quraan 21:107)

Say (O Muhammad SAW to mankind): "If you (really) love Allah then follow me (i.e. accept Islamic Monotheism, follow the Quran and the Sunnah), Allah will love you and forgive you of your sins. And Allah is Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful."(Al Quran 3.31)

The Prophet Peace be upon didnt listen to music nor did he encourage it, and as Muslims thats all we need to believe, we dont need music. He told us how to live our lives,so if he didnt since he was the best of Examples, then we follow him.

Do the words/lyrics of the Nasheeds bring you closer to Islaam or the ones that contain musical instruments bring you closer with the rhythm because they sound nice? If not then you can listen to nasheeds without Musical instruments. so there is no need to add music if the words are what are important, i hope i make sense.

I apologise if i didnt make sense, i do hope someone with more knowledge can answer your Question in a better way.


peace

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings,



Qur'an recitations consist of organised sound with fixed pitches and rhythmic effects which derive from the poetic language. They fit the definition of 'song' as well as any purely vocal music, such as Gregorian chant or other a capella performances. All responses to the recitation that you feel that are not directly related to the textual content or personal feelings towards the reciter are the effects of music.

Peace

The effects of Music?

The Effects of Music include, dancing, jumping and moving in different weird ways, this does not happen while listening to the Quran.

And like i mentioned above, the Quran - The Recitation, hence reciting in different ways. I think you should compare the effects of the Quraan to the effects of Music!.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

The effects of Music?

The Effects of Music include, dancing, jumping and moving in different weird ways, this does not happen while listening to the Quran.

This may be true, but are these the only effects of music? Someone mentioned that the recitation of the Qur'an has moved grown men to tears - the same is true of music.

Peace

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Greetings,


This may be true, but are these the only effects of music? Someone mentioned that the recitation of the Qur'an has moved grown men to tears - the same is true of music.

Peace

Yes but crying doesnt mean that its regarded as Music. There are things in life that also make us cry, for example when a loved one passes away we cry, we cry in happiness etc etc.

Yes that is indeed the truth that the Quraan has moved grown men to tear up, but has Music? Also the words of Quraan have benefit in them and those who dont even understand tear up, this doesnt happen with Music. There is no benefit in listening to some sad song or love song or whatever.But again this is the opinion of a muslim against an Athiest who has no belief.

 

[Asiyah3]

Greetings,


This may be true, but are these the only effects of music? Someone mentioned that the recitation of the Qur'an has moved grown men to tears - the same is true of music.

Peace

Peace,

What do you call something that is sang? A song.
What do you call something that is recited? A recitation.

The Qur'aan is a recitation. Hence, it is recited.

A song is sang.
A recitation is recited.

 

[czgibson]

Greetings,

Yes but crying doesnt mean that its regarded as Music.

Did I claim that it does?

Yes that is indeed the truth that the Quraan has moved grown men to tear up, but has Music?

Yes. I've just mentioned it.

Also the words of Quraan have benefit in them and those who dont even understand tear up, this doesnt happen with Music.

You may not be aware of it, but it does happen.

There is no benefit in listening to some sad song or love song or whatever.But again this is the opinion of a muslim against an Athiest who has no belief.

My lack of religious belief doesn't really have any bearing on my understanding of what music is. In a converse way, your orthodox opinion does not alter the fact that Qur'an recitations rely significantly on musical features for their effect.

Peace

 

[serena77]

salaam
no you did answer quite well. it is the words, the meaning( both said and not ) that have drawn me. i haven't listened yet to a lot of those who perform the Nasheeds, at the same time i have yet to find one i didnt like. I do like that drums can be used.....but thats the musician in me..... i love how the harmonies can be used to make a point clearer when the message said is still very simple. i don't speak arabic.. though honestly would like to learn and so as of yet all the nasheeds i've listened to have been in English and if i've liked one that did use music - i have tried to find its counterpart that didnt.

thank you again for taking the time to respond. I'm most thankful.
Serena

 

[Hugo]

Christians seem to worship God with joy only, whereas Muslims worship with a combination of love, hope and fear. The prayer itself in the ahadeeth has been described as a joy and a sweetness for the eyes. It seems that Christians believe that loving God means not having any fear, and instead they should "enjoy a state of permanent forgiveness". This is where it must be pointed out that love on its own becomes an extreme, to the extent that it gives one a false sense of security against God's Wrath. It opens the way for one to do as he pleases instead of doing what is required - submitting to God's Will.

This may be your understanding of how Christian see it but it is far from being correct. Christianity is more than accepting a series of statements about Jesus, true though they are. We have to accept that we are sinners and can only escape punishment by God's mercy not anything we can do or say, but knowing this does not even make us Christian - for that we have to make a personal decision and the call is for us to give up self and forfeit the world. That is we must renounce sin with no compromises, renounce self and give up the very principles of self-will and deny ourselves - so there is a cost. So you are wrong to suggest that Christians sit back and enjoy - forgiveness we have but our lives are dedicated to God and a life long struggle for Holiness and our fear is not His wrath so much as a conciousness that every sin brings pain to God and implies a shameful disregard for his mercy and how far we fall short of his majestic standards. There is of course joy for how can we be joyless when we know God has provided a way of salvation - from a Music point of view as the Psalmist said Psalm 150:1-10 (KJV)

1Praise ye the LORD. Praise God in his sanctuary: praise him in the firmament of his power.
2Praise him for his mighty acts: praise him according to his excellent greatness.
3Praise him with the sound of the trumpet: praise him with the psaltery and harp.
4Praise him with the timbrel and dance: praise him with stringed instruments and organs.
5Praise him upon the loud cymbals: praise him upon the high sounding cymbals.
6Let every thing that hath breath praise the LORD. Praise ye the LORD.​

Of course as you say we can praise God in silenced and surely that is sometimes right but when we see his great and wonderful works how can we keep silent?

 

[serena77]

there is something about singing is the highest form of prayer.... i don't know if thats a christian thing in general or specifically a catholic thing.. i do have to *chuckle* the 6 verses he named are from my favorite catholic hym..... I was sitting here trying to imagine the hymn in the style of the nasheed.... honestly i can...... the biggest reason i always like hymns w/ music is so i stay on key... the words still have their power w/o music ...

the nasheeds i'm looking to though are teaching me that its easier to stay on key than i once thought..... and that while i grew up w/ music being in every part of my possible, i'm quickly learning, its not as necessary as i once thought.

peace to all
serena

 

[Hugo]

Greetings, This may be true, but are these the only effects of music? Someone mentioned that the recitation of the Qur'an has moved grown men to tears - the same is true of music.Peace

This is true and often there is almost nothing that touches us so deeply as Music, perhaps especial when thing in life are hardest and words just cannot express how we feel deep inside. For me such experiences are in what is called Classical Music but it must occur for others in other forms of Music. Music of course is Universal and as far as I know there is not a single culture or time where Music in one for or another has been ascent. Scientifically there is no doubt that music has benefits (though of course not every kind of music) and if you search the net you will find plenty of evidence in including a study if my memory serves me that show that babies in the womb put on weight more quickly for some kind of music. Music also seem to be attached to language in some way and again there are many studies on that and it would account for the many many music styles found all over the world in worship and elsewhere.

Incidentally somewhere in this board is a long and detailed discussion of why Music is not Islamic - I cannot quite find it again but perhaps someone knows where it is?

 

[truth finder]

Christians seem to worship God with joy only, whereas Muslims worship with a combination of love, hope and fear. The prayer itself in the ahadeeth has been described as a joy and a sweetness for the eyes.

It seems that Christians believe that loving God means not having any fear, and instead they should "enjoy a state of permanent forgiveness". This is where it must be pointed out that love on its own becomes an extreme, to the extent that it gives one a false sense of security against God's Wrath. It opens the way for one to do as he pleases instead of doing what is required - submitting to God's Will.

One of the most beautiful things about the concept of worship in Islaam is the truly unique way in which it incorporates the feeling of love, fear and hope within the hearts of the worshippers of Allaah.

Love of Allaah, hope in His Mercy and fear of His Punishment.

Love and gratitude for the one who has given us so much that we could not enumerate it if we tried.

Hope in He Who is full of Mercy, that He will forgive our mistakes and shortcomings on the Day, when all of humanity shall stand before Allaah account for their sins, knowing that not even the smallest action which they did is hidden from Allaah.

Fear that we may incur punishment by doing wrong.

The love makes us do what is prescribed with an open heart and makes us thankful, the fear checks us from sinning, and the hope keeps us going when we have sinned.



The heart of the matter is obeying God, worshipping Him alone, in the way that He taught us, and not deviating from that by one iota.

Peace.

In fact some Muslim friends have made a similar comment to me before: Christians enjoy immorality because they always talk about the love of God through Jesus Christ, instead of God's judgment and punishment. First of all a Christian is someone who has accepted Jesus Christ as God’s forgiveness for our sins. It does not matter if he/she was born to Christian parents, or he/she was baptized when young, or he/she goes to church every Sunday, or he/she is a priest or pastor or even a pope. Presumably a large fraction of people you think are Christians, are merely churchgoers. Do you think Christians enjoy an illegal sexual relationship outside of marriage? Do you think we enjoy watching pornography secretly at night? Do you think we support abortion and same sex marriage? Do you think we take drugs secretly? Of course not! Not at all! When people deeply experience the breadth and depth of God's love that was most explicitly demonstrated through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross, they naturally stay away from immorality. “While we were still sinners, Christ died for us” (Romans 5:8). I am one of many living examples. This is the best and perhaps the most effective way to stay away from sin. Instead of struggling hard to avoid committing sins supplemented with the constant reminder of the threat of hell fire, we need to deeply experience the breadth and depth of God's love through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross. “This is my blood of the covenant, which is poured out for many for the forgiveness of sins.” (Matthew 26:28). This is the power of the love of God. It does all, love, joy, hope, accountability and healthy fear. The obvious result of struggling hard to avoid committing sins supplemented with the constant reminder of the threat of hell fire, is a guilt and fear driven life. The main concern of people with this state is to perform some kind of religious duties and rituals to compensate for their past sins and mistakes. They are often plagued by the urgent need to engage in certain rituals that are usually repetitive. As they perform these rituals, they may feel temporarily better, but there is no long-lasting sense of satisfaction or completion after the act is performed. Often, these people believe that if the ritual isn't performed, something dreadful will happen. Yes, the love of God does all, love, joy, hope and healthy fear for most (if not all) Christians. I am one of them.

 

[Tyrion]

While I would agree for the most part that Music should be kept out of worship, I feel like some of the things being said here by Muslims are just... Well, ridiculous. So many members are trying to say why they believe it to be forbidden, but the reasons being given are just laughable... (Well, in my opinion anyway.) Sure, some music will cause some people to feel like getting up and dancing or singing along... But you cannot say that for all music. What about classical music? Instrumentals? I know you don't want to admit it, but some people do benefit from this kind of music, and they simply don't do the things you're saying they do. I think it would be far more respectable if some of the members just said they don't listen to music because they believe that's what has been commanded, instead of trying to justify it with flimsy arguments. (Most of which I'm pretty sure aren't even found in Islamic texts...)

Again, this is just my opinion... I hope what I've said hasn't offended anyone.

 

[PouringRain]

You must be mistaken, no Quran recitations contain "music" in them. The Quran literally means the recitation, so the Quran is recited but in a beautiful way. The Azhaan is not sung its recited in a beautiful way to bring people to pray, that is why it is known as the "Call to prayer". Do you have the link to the vid?

However "some" Nasheeds do not contain musical instruments so this doesnt make them "music". They are basically "read" but nasheeds are not as important as the Quraan as the Quran is the word of God. However, i really dont think singing is same as music. When you add musical instruments this then makes it Music. Hope i made sense :-\

Peace

You do make sense, because you say that you equate "music" with something that includes instruments. That is very clear. To me, singing without instruments is still music. The word "music" is even included in the definition of the word "sing." It is making music with the voice. Music can exist completely without instruments. By the very definition of "music" it is also clear that the voice alone can make music.

When I listen to recitations, most that I have heard, they are sung and are music. They are no different than if I listened to the Pslams being sung a capella. (Or any other passage of the Bible.) When Glo and I mentioned singing praises to God, a capella, we are doing so without any instruments.


There are even Christians churches who also do not believe in the use of instruments in their music-- so all music is sung a capella.

I realize that a part of your argument is that the Qur'an is recited, not sung, but honestly the manner in which it is recited is considered "singing." I have even read about Muslim's taking voice lessons to be able to sing it well. I have also seen and heard Muslims everywhere who refer to recitations as being sung. I would agree that a "recitation" alone does not mean that something is sung. There are certainly recitations which are not sung.

This article is interesting: http://www.quranreciters.com/wp/index.php/category/1/

There are other interesting articles on the topic, but that one seems more comprehensive and detailed than most others.

 

[Insecured soul]

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed.

subhan allah, even esa alaysalam used to make sujood to allah azzawajal, i guess every prophet did that and alhamdolillah every muslim do too

 

[Lynx]

Peace,

The Qur'aan is a guidance for mankind. It is a guidance in all aspects of life, a revelation from Allah swt, the One, the Almighty, not an entertainment or a 'LA-LA' fantasy world.

The recitation of the Qur'aan is beautiful. Allah is beautiful and Allah loves beauty. When I listen to the Qur'aan, it's the message, it's meaning and beauty that I see, affects me and guides me in my life.

As for Muslims favoring one reciter's voice, it's only natural to find someone's voice more beautiful and attractive, right? Like I mostly listen to the recitation of Shuraim, because I love his voice the most, his style of reciting, his speed and stressing of the words. That helps me in memorizing.

So Muslims who listen to Quran recitations for pleasure (i.e., not to understand a message since, let's say, they don't understand arabic or need to memorize) are doing something wrong? in that instance i can't think of a difference between music and listening to quran recitation.

As already explained, in Islam, we don't need Music to worship Allah swt or to make the worship more enjoyable for us. Worshiping Allah is a full joy. We don't feel any less complete without music.

I never claimed you needed music to worship Allah; clearly you don't *need it* as many Muslims can worship God and they don't ever listen to music.

@Muslimah

You are indeed incorrect, listening to the Quraan does not have same effect as listening to music! Try listening to the Quran : )

I have many many times.

Music makes one dance and sometimes go crazy depending on the genre, Qu`raan does NOT make one go crazy and start jumping up and down like a lunatic, it lets us "Muslims" connect to his Lord spiritually whereas muslim does not, although you may have your own opinion.Yes Muslims do talk about their fave recitors because we all have a "variety" of different recitors who recite in different ways, but i dont understand how that relates to Music in any way?

I don;t know why so many people keep saying music makes everyone dance and go crazy. I listen to music and I am the last person to dance or go crazy. Anyway, my point about having favourite reciters is that in it's almost, if not the same, as having a favourite singer. What exactly is the difference? Most of the time people are judging the sound of the voice.

 

[Lynx]

It's true that music doesn't 'hurt' anyone but that's irrelevant here.

Kindly read Trumble's post again. He tried to point out an absurdity on the part of God for 'gifting' someone with good music skills yet prohibiting the use of it.

I pointed out this is a silly and inconsistent argument to make since people could just as well say that about any act they are good at which goes against the commands of God.

If music does not hurt anyone and some people are created with an undeniable gift in music then it does seem strange for God to forbid the use of that talent especially since there's no reason to forbid it as there is with other haraam things like theft. I hope that clears up what I am trying to say.

Theft was just an example - you may substitute in its place something else that in most non-muslim minds does not harm people, e.g. homosexual behaviour. I.e. a gay person could say: 'isn't it absurd that God made me such an awesome homosexual, yet I am not allowed to practice it?'

Lol, yeah I happen to find it odd that God creates gay people and then forbids them from acting upon it; it's unfortunate that while many of us straight people have the potential to meet someone we can truly love and sped the rest of our lives with, a portion of us humans are denied that pleasure. Maybe I am a sentimental guy, but it kind of sucks to deny someone a profound emotion like love.

A point to note here is, if all people were given the freewill to decide exactly what constitutes right and wrong behaviour, then there would be a massive inconsistency. One person's right would be wrong for others and vice versa.

However, as far as muslims are concerned, Allah has given us the law and it is not up to us to circumvent or make our own rules up.

I respect the fact that rules are rules; we're just having a friendly discussion about possible reasons to why such are the rules