Music in worship

[truth finder]

Of course, glo was not talking about cults or music used in cults. Do you think King David was a cult leader? King David, one of the greatest worshippers in history, used both his voice and musical instruments. Because of limited space, I list only three verses in which King David enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments.

David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals (1 Chronicle 15:16)
David said, "Of these, twenty-four thousand are to supervise the work of the temple of the LORD and six thousand are to be officials and judges. Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose." (1 Chronicle 23:4-5)
David, together with the commanders of the army, set apart some of the sons of Asaph, Heman and Jeduthun for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres and cymbals. (1 Chronicle 25:1)

 

[Ramadhan]

Of course, glo was not talking about cults or music used in cults

who are you to judge which is cult and which is not and who makes that judgement?
Read again what glo said.

Do you think King David was a cult leader? King David, one of the greatest worshippers in history, used both his voice and musical instruments. Because of limited space, I list only three verses in which King David enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments.

Last time I checked, this is Islamic Board, and in Islamic board, we don't use bible as authority, especially to determine how/ways of worship
So you need to cut down on that, and better yet, please bring islamic argument to support your argument that music is allowed in worship.

If you insist on using bible verses, bring it to comparative religion where there is already threads like qur'an vs. bible to verify whether david pbuh really used instrumental music as his mean of worship.

And by the way, since your name is truth finder, i suggest you to read and study more Al Qur'an since it is the truth. May Allah gives you guidance. amiin.

 

[Dagless]

Of course, glo was not talking about cults or music used in cults. Do you think King David was a cult leader? King David, one of the greatest worshippers in history, used both his voice and musical instruments. Because of limited space, I list only three verses in which King David enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments.

You keep mentioning King David, but in Islam I don't think it is accepted that Dawood (as) played any instrument, so it's not an argument which can be used.

The bottom line is that music alters your state of consciousness and while it's not going to be as bad as drugs or alcohol, the effect is definitely apparent. When we pray we should keep a clear head and be able to concentrate. If your mind is on the music or heightening emotion (which is not akin to heightening prayer), you're concentrating less on the prayer.

I also don't think marvelling at how good someone is at playing an instrument makes it acceptable. You may see God in skill, but there are skilful assassins, that doesn't mean killing people is a beautiful thing and should be used in religious worship.

The boundaries in prayer have been set, and we have no authority to change them.

 

[PouringRain]

The recitation of the Qur'an has moved grown men to tears, not only in it's meaning, but it's sound. Kate Humble from the BBC was moved to tears when she heard the adhaan (call to prayer) echoing from the minarets of Jeddah.

The majority of qur'an recitations I have heard, are music. They are not set to any instruments, no, but they are sung. Music created with the voice. The adhaan, those I have heard, are most often sung. I watched a video of prayer yesterday, and it was sung. (Most prayer videos I have seen and when I have prayed with another, it was not sung.) Nasheeds are sung.

 

[Muhaba]

One positive thing about music + worship is that music tends to stir up emotions and songs about something like God's praise might stir up the appropriate emotions one would like to feel towards God. Something like a love song except about God and more...appropriate in content

Music is an interesting phenomenon.

Music only seems to stirs up sexual / romantic emotions.

whenever i've listened to nasheed sung to musical instruments my mind wasn't focused on God. It wasn't like listening to the Quran which is recited without music. One needs to sincerely analyze their feelings to see whether they are thinking of God more when worshipping with music or when worshipping without it.

As I mentioned, one of the greatest worshippers in history, King David, enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments. Numerous Christians have also shared the same experience. Human beings are not robots and there are always some people who do not have the same view. Perhaps some Christians prefer worshiping God without music. I have no problem with that. You may belong to this class of people. But it should not justify that all music must be forbidden in worshiping God. For instance, some people do not like riding a car. Even tens of thousands of people are killed in car accidents each year. Then do we have to ban all cars on the street? When good lyrics or prayers are combined with good music, many (if not all) believers have enjoyed greatly worshipping God. I am one of them.

That's the Christian belief. Islamically we know that Allah had given King Prophet David (A.S) a very beautiful voice and he used to recite the praises of Allah (God) and the birds and mountains would recite with him. there were no musical instruments involved. Allah says in the Quran: We bestowed Grace earlier on David from Ourselves. "o mountains, echo you back the Praises of Allah with him, and you birds (also). And We made the iron soft for him.

 

[truth finder]

I was told by Muslim friends that Torah and Psalms are accepted as holy scriptures for Muslims. I can quote numerous verses where believers enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments.

When we Christians think about worshipping God, the first word that comes to our mind is joy, the joy of salvation! To us the most important part of worship is expressing our joy and thanks in most genuine ways. Music is one of the powerful ways to express our joy to God. Of course, in worship music is not a goal in itself, but a way to express our joyful and thankful emotions to the Creator. The other parts of worship include supplications and listening to sermons, which are usually more quite without music.

 

[Asiyah3]

One positive thing about music + worship is that music tends to stir up emotions and songs about something like God's praise might stir up the appropriate emotions one would like to feel towards God. Something like a love song except about God and more...appropriate in content

Exactly. Music tends to stir up emotions.

As Muslims we're always supposed to be in a clear and natural state of mind.

 

[Muhaba]

I was told by Muslim friends that Torah and Psalms are accepted as holy scriptures for Muslims. I can quote numerous verses where believers enjoyed worshipping God with musical instruments.

When we Christians think about worshipping God, the first word that comes to our mind is joy, the joy of salvation! To us the most important part of worship is expressing our joy and thanks in most genuine ways. Music is one of the powerful ways to express our joy to God. Of course, in worship music is not a goal in itself, but a way to express our joyful and thankful emotions to the Creator. The other parts of worship include supplications and listening to sermons, which are usually more quite without music.

Torah and Psalms were Holy scriptures revealed by God and we must believe in them but what you've got aren't the original forms. You can even tell when you're reading it, which part are original and which aren't. For example, in the verses about praising the Hymns of God, you can see that the ones about praising God to musical instruments and dance have been added.

 

[truth finder]

Because our minds are tuned in to God most of the time, music stirs the joy and love of God in our heart. In a sense music stirs up our emotions deeply hidden in our heart. I do not understand why music stirs sexual / romantic emotions in you. Is this because you think about these things all the time?

I have already showed you what music instruments King David used in his worship for God. Just in case you missed it, I write it again for you.

David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals (1 Chronicle 15:16)
David said, "Of these, twenty-four thousand are to supervise the work of the temple of the LORD and six thousand are to be officials and judges. Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose." (1 Chronicle 23:4-5)
David, together with the commanders of the army, set apart some of the sons of Asaph, Heman and Jeduthun for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres and cymbals. (1 Chronicle 25:1)

 

[Muhaba]

Because our minds are tuned in to God most of the time, music stirs the joy and love of God in our heart. In a sense music stirs up our emotions deeply hidden in our heart. I do not understand why music stirs sexual / romantic emotions in you. Is this because you think about these things all the time?

I don't believe that. I've seen people dancing to islamic nasheed (poems sung to music) and going wild, shaking all parts of their bodies, it was obviouse they weren't thinking of God.

I have already showed you what music instruments King David used in his worship for God. Just in case you missed it, I write it again for you.

David told the leaders of the Levites to appoint their brothers as singers to sing joyful songs, accompanied by musical instruments: lyres, harps and cymbals (1 Chronicle 15:16)
David said, "Of these, twenty-four thousand are to supervise the work of the temple of the LORD and six thousand are to be officials and judges. Four thousand are to be gatekeepers and four thousand are to praise the LORD with the musical instruments I have provided for that purpose." (1 Chronicle 23:4-5)
David, together with the commanders of the army, set apart some of the sons of Asaph, Heman and Jeduthun for the ministry of prophesying, accompanied by harps, lyres and cymbals. (1 Chronicle 25:1)

The Quranic verse is far more beautiful and effective. Read it again:
We bestowed Grace earlier on David from Ourselves. "O mountains, echo you back the Praises of Allah with him, and you birds (also). And We made the iron soft for him.

How beautiful. mountains and birds praising God with David (A.S). no musical instruments were needed.

 

[Alpha Dude]

I don't believe there is a God, of course, but the idea that if there was He would gift composers like Mozart, Bach and Beethoven with the genius they had to produce something forbidden just seems utterly absurd

This is a silly argument to make. Anyone could say the same about anything that is impermissible. For example, one could consider himself to be a 'gifted' theif. Going by your logic, it would have been 'absurd' to make theft haraam too.

 

[Lynx]

This is a silly argument to make. Anyone could say the same about anything that is impermissible. For example, one could consider himself to be a 'gifted' theif. Going by your logic, it would have been 'absurd' to make theft haraam too.

Music and stealing are completely different. For one, thievery hurts people and no society could function if it were not forbidden. Jeez.

 

[Lynx]

Exactly. Music tends to stir up emotions.

As Muslims we're always supposed to be in a clear and natural state of mind.

Listening to a beautiful recitation of the Quran has the same effect don't you think? Isn't that why Muslims are discussing all the time which Reciter is the best or sounds good? The addition of melody or music can act as a catalyst when trying to incite some kind of reaction or emotion such as Love or etc.

 

[Insecured soul]

It may be different from how you get close to God, but does that necessarily make it wrong?

I have seen people striving to draw closer to God in many different ways:

we get close to god in a way that pleases allah swt, we cannot invent our own ways to do that, we worship allah the way we were told by prophets

 

[Insaanah]

The majority of qur'an recitations I have heard, are music. They are not set to any instruments, no, but they are sung.

They may sound beautiful, but they are neither song nor music. We beautify the Qur'an with our voices to give it due honour and to distinguish it from any other book. Not even ahadeeth are read in that fashion. It is not sung. If you listen to recitations of the Qur'an, while the sounds may be melodious and enjoyable, they are quite distinct from songs and singing. We don't say we are going to sing the Qur'an, we recite the Qur'an. If we were to take (for argument's sake just to illustrate my meaning) the example of "singing without music", I think this is what everybody understands music to be: the use of instruments. So just because something sounds nice, doesn't make it music. And recitation in a nice tone doesn't equate to singing.

King David, one of the greatest worshippers in history, used both his voice and musical instruments

Jesus (peace be upon him) prostrated himself to God when he prayed.

"And he went a little further, and fell on his face, and prayed..." (Matthew 26:39).

Jesus (peace be upon him), if I'm not mistaken, is the most central figure in Christianity.

Do Christians prostrate in their worship also?

Biblical Prophets (peace be upon them) made ablution before prayer, removed their shoes, faced a direction of prayer, bowed, prostrated (all pretty much like Muslims do)

I don't see many Christians doing these things.

Peace.

 

[Asiyah3]

Listening to a beautiful recitation of the Quran has the same effect don't you think? Isn't that why Muslims are discussing all the time which Reciter is the best or sounds good?

Peace,

The Qur'aan is a guidance for mankind. It is a guidance in all aspects of life, a revelation from Allah swt, the One, the Almighty, not an entertainment or a 'LA-LA' fantasy world.

The recitation of the Qur'aan is beautiful. Allah is beautiful and Allah loves beauty. When I listen to the Qur'aan, it's the message, it's meaning and beauty that I see, affects me and guides me in my life.

As for Muslims favoring one reciter's voice, it's only natural to find someone's voice more beautiful and attractive, right? Like I mostly listen to the recitation of Shuraim, because I love his voice the most, his style of reciting, his speed and stressing of the words. That helps me in memorizing.

The addition of melody or music can act as a catalyst when trying to incite some kind of reaction or emotion such as Love or etc.

As already explained, in Islam, we don't need Music to worship Allah swt or to make the worship more enjoyable for us. Worshiping Allah is a full joy. We don't feel any less complete without music.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

Peace Lynx

Listening to a beautiful recitation of the Quran has the same effect don't you think? Isn't that why Muslims are discussing all the time which Reciter is the best or sounds good? The addition of melody or music can act as a catalyst when trying to incite some kind of reaction or emotion such as Love or etc.

You are indeed incorrect, listening to the Quraan does not have same effect as listening to music! Try listening to the Quran : )

Music makes one dance and sometimes go crazy depending on the genre, Qu`raan does NOT make one go crazy and start jumping up and down like a lunatic, it lets us "Muslims" connect to his Lord spiritually whereas muslim does not, although you may have your own opinion.Yes Muslims do talk about their fave recitors because we all have a "variety" of different recitors who recite in different ways, but i dont understand how that relates to Music in any way?

Listening to the Quraan is also a way to get close to our creator.

 

[Alpha Dude]

Music and stealing are completely different. For one, thievery hurts people and no society could function if it were not forbidden. Jeez.

It's true that music doesn't 'hurt' anyone but that's irrelevant here.

Kindly read Trumble's post again. He tried to point out an absurdity on the part of God for 'gifting' someone with good music skills yet prohibiting the use of it.

I pointed out this is a silly and inconsistent argument to make since people could just as well say that about any act they are good at which goes against the commands of God.

Theft was just an example - you may substitute in its place something else that in most non-muslim minds does not harm people, e.g. homosexual behaviour. I.e. a gay person could say: 'isn't it absurd that God made me such an awesome homosexual, yet I am not allowed to practice it?'

A point to note here is, if all people were given the freewill to decide exactly what constitutes right and wrong behaviour, then there would be a massive inconsistency. One person's right would be wrong for others and vice versa.

However, as far as muslims are concerned, Allah has given us the law and it is not up to us to circumvent or make our own rules up.

 

[truth finder]

Prayer is any communication between God and human beings. Several postures are fine for prayer. Jesus also prayed to the Father while standing with his hands raised. When he had led them out to the vicinity of Bethany, he lifted up his hands and blessed them. (Luke 24:51). Jesus also prayed to the Father while sitting on the dining table. While they were eating, Jesus took bread, gave thanks and broke it, and gave it to his disciples, saying, "Take and eat; this is my body." (Matthew 26:26) Many Christians (including me) often like to pray with our hands lifted high above, and with our face toward the heaven longing to meet and see our Creator. Some Christians like praying to God in prostration. I have no problem with that. Worshiping is enjoying God as much as we can, and expressing our joy and thanks in most genuine ways. The heart of the matter is the matter of heart, not the matter of posture.

 

[Ğħαrєєвαħ]

The majority of qur'an recitations I have heard, are music. They are not set to any instruments, no, but they are sung. Music created with the voice. The adhaan, those I have heard, are most often sung. I watched a video of prayer yesterday, and it was sung. (Most prayer videos I have seen and when I have prayed with another, it was not sung.) Nasheeds are sung.

You must be mistaken, no Quran recitations contain "music" in them. The Quran literally means the recitation, so the Quran is recited but in a beautiful way. The Azhaan is not sung its recited in a beautiful way to bring people to pray, that is why it is known as the "Call to prayer". Do you have the link to the vid?

However "some" Nasheeds do not contain musical instruments so this doesnt make them "music". They are basically "read" but nasheeds are not as important as the Quraan as the Quran is the word of God. However, i really dont think singing is same as music. When you add musical instruments this then makes it Music. Hope i made sense :-\

Peace