Muslim women jobs

[~Zaria~]

This is a red herring. You are talking about men providing for women, which is religiously mandated. The imam is talking about women being forced into situations where they have no alternative but to rely on men, and idolizes the dependence it causes.

Is not divorce halal, or at worst makruh? Are then women supposed to be prevented from it by imposing dependence on them?

Akhee, I truly do not believe that this is the message that the mufti is trying to send.....

He says:

The concept of females working merely for economic independency has no basis in the Shari?ah.

Many may agree, that it is the fact that women are so much more independant (than for e.g. in times of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam), and the nations before him), that this has indeed provided women more 'leeway' in letting go of their marriages, rather than trying to work the problems out.

Quite often marriages are ending for trivial matters..... that would not have occured if the wife's livelihood (and that of her kids) depended more on her husband.

We live in an age where the current thinking is - whatever a man can do.....so can/ will a woman.

As Sh Imran Hossein describes - just as the day follows the night, and the night follows the day by a natural order......when this natural balance is shifted (i.e when the roles of men and women are no longer well defined/ are swopped) - this leads to chaos.
As reflected (to some extent) by the increase in broken homes, etc.

However - this is not to imply that women are meant to endure abuse and misery in their marriages, simply because the man is the bread-winner.

Mufti himself says:

It does not mean that a woman should be dependant on men merely to maintain her marriage.

We have merely expressed the wisdom of a female being dependant.

This also does not mean a female cannot be rich. She may earn an income but without violating the laws of the Shari?ah.

In shaa Allah, this brings more clarity.



:wasalamex

 

[Futuwwa]

So the dependency of a woman is a good thing when it makes her stay in good marriages, but not a good thing if it makes her stay in a marriage where she has to endure abuse?

Unfortunately you get either both or none. Unless the mufti knows of a way to make sure that only women with good husbands remain dependent?

 

[GuestFellow]

Putting your eggs in one basket is never a good idea. =)

 

[Cabdullahi]

Muslim women should work in the kitchen! as plumbers or electricians

 

[sister herb]

In the kitchen? Why?

 

[marwen]

I don't know

 

[Scimitar]

In the kitchen? Why?

because men always make a mess

Scimi

 

[Pure Purple]

Sister Innocent soul,I think you are confuse in deciding your higher studies.I would recommend you to be primary or kindergarten teacher.You are so humble , soft hearted person,patience,these all required to deal with kids.: P
OR you can take admission to good islamic institute and excel in tajweed etc and you can teach tajweed to kids,you will be sadqa-e-jariya for your parents.: D
btw are you interested in journalism? I read your post somewhere on the forum

 

[sister herb]

because men always make a mess

Scimi

Thats true!

I worked in the resteurant kitchen before with 3 brothers. I would manage to make all foods alone without them. Much easy.
'

It wasn´t possible as I had to be they cheff cook.

 

[~Zaria~]

So the dependency of a woman is a good thing when it makes her stay in good marriages, but not a good thing if it makes her stay in a marriage where she has to endure abuse?

Unfortunately you get either both or none. Unless the mufti knows of a way to make sure that only women with good husbands remain dependent?

الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَآءِ بِمَا فَضَّلَ اللَّهُ بَعْضَهُمْ عَلَى بَعْضٍ وَبِمَآ أَنفَقُواْ مِنْ أَمْوَلِهِمْ ​

4:34 Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has made one of them to excel the other, and because they spend (to support them) from their means.


Ibn Kathir:

Men are the protectors and maintainers of women,

meaning, the man is responsible for the woman, and he is her maintainer, caretaker and leader who disciplines her if she deviates.
​

because Allah has made one of them to excel the other,

meaning, because men excel over women and are better than them for certain tasks. This is why Prophethood was exclusive of men, as well as other important positions of leadership.
​

The Prophet (sallahu alaihi wasalam) said, People who appoint a woman to be their leader, will never achieve success.
Al-Bukhari recorded this Hadith.
Such is the case with appointing women as judges or on other positions of leadership.


and because they spend from their means.

meaning the dowry, expenditures and various expenses that Allah ordained in His Book and the Sunnah of His Messenger for men to spend on women. For these reasons it is suitable that he is appointed her maintainer, just as Allah said, وَلِلرِّجَالِ عَلَيْهِنَّ دَرَجَةٌ (But men have a degree (of responsibility) over them). (2:228)
​

Ibn Jarir recorded that Abu Hurayrah said that the Messenger of Allah said,

خَيْرُ النِّسَاءِ امْرَأَةٌ إِذَا نَظَرْتَ إِلَيْهَا سَرَّتْكَ، وَإِذَا أَمَرْتَهَا أَطَاعَتْكَ، وَإِذَا غِبْتَ عَنْهَا حَفِظَتْكَ فِي نَفْسِهَا وَمَالِك​

The best women is she who when you look at her, she pleases you, when you command her she obeys you, and when you are absent, she protects her honor and your property.

Then, the Messenger of Allah recited the Ayah, الرِّجَالُ قَوَّامُونَ عَلَى النِّسَاء (Men are the protectors and maintainers of women), until its end.

Imam Ahmad recorded that Abdur-Rahman bin 'Awf said that the Messenger of Allah said,

إِذَا صَلَّتِ الْمَرْأَةُ خَمْسَهَا، وَصَامَتْ شَهْرَهَا، وَحَفِظَتْ فَرْجَهَا، وَأَطَاعَتْ زَوْجَهَا، قِيلَ لَهَا: ادْخُلِي الْجَنَّةَ مِنْ أَيِّ الْأَبْوَابِ شِئْت

​

If the woman prayed her five daily prayers, fasted her month, protected her chastity and obeyed her husband, she will be told,

'Enter Paradise from any of its doors you wish.'



:wasalamex

 

[Futuwwa]

And where does the Quran say that dependency is a good thing?

 

[~Zaria~]

And where does the Quran say that dependency is a good thing?

Please read the previous post again and reflect upon its meaning.

The word of Allah azza wajjal is clear for those who open their hearts to it.


Also note, that the system of Islam has made it such, that for a woman to earn her own livelihood is not her responsibility.

If she is a daughter, Shariah has made the father responsible to provide for his daughter. If she is a wife, the husband is made responsible. If she is a mother, the son has to take care of her. If she is a sister, the responsibility is put upon the shoulders of her brother. If she has no immediate relatives, then Shariah has made it that her far relatives must look after her. In a case where she has no relatives at all, the Islamic government has to take this responsibility. Never does Shariah force a woman to go out in the work field and provide for herself, thereby making it easier upon her to maintain her shame and modesty. (from askimam.org)

Under todays circumstances, where we do not live under Shariah law, women have no choice but to go out to work and fend for themselves and their kids.

As I have mentioned previously, this is not about 'being dependant' upon a man.

Women are still entitled to study and increase their knowledge, and serve the ummah - in ways that are best suited to a woman, and where her modesty and duties to her husband are not compromised.

The fact that there are men who do not honour their women - does not reduce from the wisdom of Allah (subhanawataálas) commands upon us.

Islam (and its teachings) is perfect.
Muslims are not.
Do not confuse the two.


:wasalamex

 

[Futuwwa]

And you keep posting red herrings and equating two things that are, objectively, not the same.

1) Men are religiously mandated to provide for women

2) Women being dependent on men is a good thing

We all agree with 1), so can you stop spamming the point? Doing so does, in no way, imply that 2) is true. Are you capable of defending 2) on its own? Or, demonstrate that 2) follows from 1) through deductive logic?

 

[~Zaria~]

And you keep posting red herrings and equating two things that are, objectively, not the same.

1) Men are religiously mandated to provide for women

2) Women being dependent on men is a good thing

We all agree with 1), so can you stop spamming the point? Doing so does, in no way, imply that 2) is true. Are you capable of defending 2) on its own? Or, demonstrate that 2) follows from 1) through deductive logic?

If you are able to see life through the eyes of Quraan and Sunnah, then you will be able to understand the 2 points in relation to each other.

It is not for us to use 'deductive logic' in matters of fiqh - if you cannot understand such issues in light of what has been presented (and this is fine, as we are not scholars in this field), then as I have mentioned - seek counsel with those who can provide you with this knowledge.

As I have already provided you with the statements of Mufti Ebrahim Desai - and you are still not happy with this, then perhaps you should ask yourself why you are in contempt of the guidance of our knowledgeable scholars.

I am not here to force you into agreement.

That choice is yours.


:wasalamex

 

[Futuwwa]

If you are able to see life through the eyes of Quraan and Sunnah, then you will be able to understand the 2 points in relation to each other.

In other words, you have no argument whatsoever in support of your position, you are simply right "just because" and I too would see it if I was as wise, pious and knowledgeable as you.

It is not for us to use 'deductive logic' in matters of fiqh - if you cannot understand such issues in light of what has been presented (and this is fine, as we are not scholars in this field), then as I have mentioned - seek counsel with those who can provide you with this knowledge.

As I have already provided you with the statements of Mufti Ebrahim Desai - and you are still not happy with this, then perhaps you should ask yourself why you are in contempt of the guidance of our knowledgeable scholars.

Who died and empowered him with superpowers of infallibility?

If we are not supposed to discuss things freely, what's the point of this thread to begin with? To argue by copypasting the opinions of scholars? If they disagree, how do we determine whose scholar wins?

 

[~Zaria~]

Who died and empowered him with superpowers of infallibility?

And this would indicate your respect for scholars who spent a lot more time studying this deen.... many of whom have dedicated their lives in the pursuit of acquiring knowledge and imparting it to this ummah.

If we are not supposed to discuss things freely, what's the point of this thread to begin with? To argue by copypasting the opinions of scholars? If they disagree, how do we determine whose scholar wins?

This was my point in my second post on this thread.
That these topics in fiqh are not for us to be providing our opinions on.....and trying to reach our own conclusions.
This is not a topic open to voting and a poll.
If the poll indicates that the majority here believe that most women should go out and work - what does that actually mean?

This is a sign of arrogance on our parts.

As Moulana Sulaiman Moola has once said:

"I fear when such people (who have no understanding of deen), have become the leaders of the ummat - it is Qiyamat, it is Qimayat.....
Ulema gave their lives deducing these conclusions.....
But here (are some) misleading and beguiling the masses."

This is not even an issue where there is major differences of interpretation between the madhabs.

If you cannot/ do not wish to understand, then at the very least, try to show some respect for the ulema in our communities.

 

[Futuwwa]

If "respect" consists of having to accept everything they say without being allowed to raise objections or counter-questions, then they'll have to do without my respect.

 

[GuestFellow]

And this would indicate your respect for scholars who spent a lot more time studying this deen.... many of whom have dedicated their lives in the pursuit of acquiring knowledge and imparting it to this ummah.

How does respect come into the equation? Are we supposed to blindly accept everything?

If an Islamic scholar introduces a rule which says Muslims are not allowed to do X and Y. Then we as Muslims have every right to find out the basis for his rulings. Nothing wrong with that. In fact we are helping the scholar because scholars can make mistakes too! It's true! My cockatiel told me.

Isn't he the most adorable little psycho?

 

[Haya emaan]

Assalam o alaikum

i didn't voted because i think Muslim women should acquire high education/degrees and can do reputed jobs within religious boundaries, but not all today's 'reputed' jobs are 'reputed' to do for Muslim women..
also depends on the society she lives..


personally i would not encourage women of my house to go out and work where males of my house are fulfilling their responsibility to feed us and take care of all sorts of our needs unless there is some serious financial needs or they have stand to balance some society requirements like we here need female doctors and professors or for some community work. otherwise i don't see any point to burdenize one self where Allah has given ease..

 

[GuestFellow]

Why is a degree a must have? It's not necessary. I personally advocate vocational qualifications.