News 4m Pakistan

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Despite all the hype and romanticism, Jinnah was a staunch secularist politician. He only appealed to Islam to gain support from masses. He used to appear with his sister in public gatherings and liked to be clean shaven. Pakistan was definitely not created in name of Islam, it was created in name of preserving the Muslim business class and feudal landlords of India.

The Majlis e Ahrar e Islam led by Maulana Ataullah Shah Bukhari staunchly opposed the idea of Pakistan. Maulana Bukhari once said that not one mother can give birth to a child who can make the "P" in Pakistan a reality. There was also a couplet composed by Maulana Mazhar Ali Azhar:

Ik kafira ke wastay Islam ko choora
Yeh Qaid e Azam hain? Yeh tho kafir e azam

For the love of an infidel woman he deserted Islam
Is he the "Great Leader"? No, he is the "Great Kafir"

It is well known that Gandhiji even knew more verses of the Quran than Jinnah. Furthermore, Jinnah was a great friend of the Qadianis, which is why they also supported creation of Pakistan. The first foreign minister of Pakistan was a Qadiani, Zafrullah Khan.

In 1953, Majlis e Ahrar e Islam and Jamaat e Islami launched a joint strategy to retaliate against Qadiani insolence in Pakistan. The leader of Jamaat e Islami, Maulana Maudoodi, was sentenced to death for "provoking religious tension"! It was not until the great General Zia ul Haq (shaheed) took over that Pakistan switched paths from secularism to Islam. General Zia ul Haq passed famous ordinances to Islamize Pakistan and the blasphemy laws of today are credited to his noble efforts.

But today Pakistan has completely reversed course under General Musharraf's "enlightened moderation" which will be even more zealously implemented if Benazir Bhutto comes to power. This is why many Pakistanis today see no bright future for their country and wish to reunite with India to salvage the honor of Islam.
 
You think that India would want to re-unite with Pakistan again?
 
The way things are going in Pakistan and if the country continues down this path, reuniting with India may be a real reality. Of course, if this does happen, it will be because Pakistan first breaks up due to the many separatist movements. First Baluchistan may separate, than the NWFP may unite with Afghanistan, than India will take over Pakistani Kashmir, than Sindh may become an independent country of Sindhudesh. Then all that may be left of Pakistan is Punjab, which will probably have no choice but the reunite with India. If there's any part of Pakistan India wants its the Punjab.
 
Talha777 said:
Despite all the hype and romanticism, Jinnah was a staunch secularist politician. He only appealed to Islam to gain support from masses. He used to appear with his sister in public gatherings and liked to be clean shaven. Pakistan was definitely not created in name of Islam, it was created in name of preserving the Muslim business class and feudal landlords of India.

The Majlis e Ahrar e Islam led by Maulana Ataullah Shah Bukhari staunchly opposed the idea of Pakistan. Maulana Bukhari once said that not one mother can give birth to a child who can make the "P" in Pakistan a reality. There was also a couplet composed by Maulana Mazhar Ali Azhar:

Ik kafira ke wastay Islam ko choora
Yeh Qaid e Azam hain? Yeh tho kafir e azam

For the love of an infidel woman he deserted Islam
Is he the "Great Leader"? No, he is the "Great Kafir"

It is well known that Gandhiji even knew more verses of the Quran than Jinnah. Furthermore, Jinnah was a great friend of the Qadianis, which is why they also supported creation of Pakistan. The first foreign minister of Pakistan was a Qadiani, Zafrullah Khan.

In 1953, Majlis e Ahrar e Islam and Jamaat e Islami launched a joint strategy to retaliate against Qadiani insolence in Pakistan. The leader of Jamaat e Islami, Maulana Maudoodi, was sentenced to death for "provoking religious tension"! It was not until the great General Zia ul Haq (shaheed) took over that Pakistan switched paths from secularism to Islam. General Zia ul Haq passed famous ordinances to Islamize Pakistan and the blasphemy laws of today are credited to his noble efforts.

But today Pakistan has completely reversed course under General Musharraf's "enlightened moderation" which will be even more zealously implemented if Benazir Bhutto comes to power. This is why many Pakistanis today see no bright future for their country and wish to reunite with India to salvage the honor of Islam.
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you didn't answer my question: do you think it was good that al-qaeda has declared jihad on pakistan after lal masjid?
i agree that it was an opportunist movement for the benefit of the privileged, but it was supported by many people who sincerely feared for their future in india. ironically, the existence of pakistan has perhaps placed them in more danger than they would've been. most indian muslims i don't think supported the pakistan movement.
i am no admirer of BB and i agree, the future does not look very bright.
you do not see ul haq as merely another politician using islam for political purposes? no, i doubt that you would.
i think there were many reasons to oppose the creation of pakistan and it probably should not have happened. a lot of blame falls on the brits, but that's another subject. in anycase, pakistan is here and has just as much right to exist as any other country.
however, i think you're right in your posts to aaron. there is a good chance the country will break up, with india getting the prize. (and the only land that really is desirable). i hope this doesn't happen because it will be one huge bloodbath, maybe even as horrible as partition itself.
aaron, there are indeed indians who have never accepted the creation of pakistan and bangladesh and dream of taking it back. (yeah, i know - it makes no sense).
 
you didn't answer my question: do you think it was good that al-qaeda has declared jihad on pakistan after lal masjid?
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No, I dont think it is good what al qaida is doing. They are going to extreme, especially with their suicide bombings and killing innocent people which is haram.

At the same time, the Pakistan Army is also waging war against their own people especially in Swat, Wazirstan and Baluchistan. Both sides have committed grave atrocities.

you do not see ul haq as merely another politician using islam for political purposes? no, i doubt that you would.
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There is a saying: "talk is cheap", and "practice what you preach". I believe it is actions of a politician which show his true colors, rather than their rhetoric. This is what makes General Zia ul Haq distinct. Many Muslim politicians have been using Islamic rhetoric and making emotional speeches, but their actions betray what they say. Not so General Zia ul Haq. Whatever remnant of Islamic laws (especially blasphemy law) and the ordinances against Qadianis that remain in Pakistan till this day are solely credited to him.
 
Talha777 said:
No, I dont think it is good what al qaida is doing. They are going to extreme, especially with their suicide bombings and killing innocent people which is haram.

At the same time, the Pakistan Army is also waging war against their own people especially in Swat, Wazirstan and Baluchistan. Both sides have committed grave atrocities.



There is a saying: "talk is cheap", and "practice what you preach". I believe it is actions of a politician which show his true colors, rather than their rhetoric. This is what makes General Zia ul Haq distinct. Many Muslim politicians have been using Islamic rhetoric and making emotional speeches, but their actions betray what they say. Not so General Zia ul Haq. Whatever remnant of Islamic laws (especially blasphemy law) and the ordinances against Qadianis that remain in Pakistan till this day are solely credited to him.
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i agree with the above and you make some good points, but of course we disagree re: ul haq and the benefits of the blasphemy - hudood ordinance. but that's to be expected. :D
 
Talha777 said:
Despite all the hype and romanticism, Jinnah was a staunch secularist politician. He only appealed to Islam to gain support from masses. He used to appear with his sister in public gatherings and liked to be clean shaven.
It is well known that Gandhiji even knew more verses of the Quran than Jinnah. This is why many Pakistanis today see no bright future for their country and wish to reunite with India to salvage the honor of Islam.
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To lead a freedom movement and creating an independent state, people lookup towards some revolutionary personality with character, integrity, vision and an iron will to lead the people from the front. For this purpose, the personal life of an individual is of a secondary nature. History testifies that religious class openly opposed the creation of an independent state, In other words, they wanted to maintain status-quo by accepting the Muslims as minority under Hindu's rule, yet many of those migrated. They would have stayed with Indian Muslims and could have served the cause of Islam in a better way, instead capitalizing upon the sacrificies made by the ordinary people.

The fact remains that Pakistan came into existance as a result of sacrifices rendered by the workers, street hawkers and young students under the dynamic leadership of Mr Jinnah.

Stanley Walport has paid tribute to the Quaid in his book, Jinnah of Pakistan “Few individuals significantly alter the course of history. Fewer still modify the map of the world. Hardly anyone can be credited with creating a nation state. Muhammad Ali Jinnah did all three”.

Who wants to reunite with India? I couldn't believe you said. If political class and other leaders couldn't deliver towards the country, Jinnah (may Allah be pleased with him) can't be held responsible for their failures.
 
Talha777 said:
This is why many Pakistanis today see no bright future for their country and wish to reunite with India to salvage the honor of Islam.[/FONT]
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this didn't sink in the first time around. i seriously doubt that you would find many pakistanis who wish to reunite with india! i'm not sure you could even find a handful. though i agree not many see a bright future for their country and it is sad.
 
Pakistani opposition leader Benazir Bhutto has been killed in a suicide attack at a political rally, party offical Rehman Malik has said.

"She has been martyred," he said.

Initial reports said at least 15 other people were killed in the attackAt least 15 other people were killed in the gun and bomb attack after a rally in the city of Rawalpindi, officials said.

The country's former prime minister was leaving the park where she had just finished her rally in support of her party's campaign for a January 8 general election when the attack happened.

A witness said he saw about eight bodies on a road as well as a mutilated human head.

On October 18, a suicide bomber killed nearly 150 people in an attack on Ms Bhutto as she paraded through the southern city of Karachi after returning home from eight years in self-imposed exile.

Earlier, gunmen opened fire on supporters of another former prime minister, Nawaz Sharif, from an office of the party that supports President Pervez Musharraf, killing four Sharif supporters, police said.

Mr Sharif was several miles away from the shooting and was on his way to Rawalpindi after attending a rally.

Mr Sharif, who was overthrown by Mr Musharraf in a 1999 coup and allowed back into the country just last month after seven years in exile, blamed supporters of the pro-Musharraf party for the violence.

But a spokesman for the party denied that its workers were involved.

© Independent Television News Limited 2007. All rights reserved.

http://itn.co.uk/news/7768d21cfe60d2...25cbeac6c.html
 
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:salamext:

- Latest news - Bhutto has passed away.​

Pakistan: Benazir Bhutto Killed In Suicide Attack: Pakistan Opposition leader Benazir Bhutto has died after a suicide attack at a political rally.She was undergoing emergency surgery at a nearby hospital for a suspected neck injury, Sky News sources say.
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Source

Inna Lillaahi Wa Inna Ilayhi Raji'oon

To Allaah we belong and to Him we shall return imsad
 
:salamext:

Pakistan Opposition leader Benazir Bhutto has died after a suicide attack at a political rally.
She was undergoing emergency surgery at a nearby hospital for a suspected neck injury, Sky News sources say.

It was believed to be a suicide attack

The explosion went off just after Ms Bhutto left the rally in Rawalpindi, minutes after her speech to thousands of people.

At least 15 people died in the attack in the heart of Pakistan's military and parliamentary district.

It is the first major attack since President General Pervez Musharraf lifted emergency rule two weeks ago.

Sky News correspondent Alex Crawford said from Pakistan the country's upcoming January elections would "most likey be postponed or cancelled" because of the attack.
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Source
 
In simple words, we don't have any solution against suicidal attacks, only scholars of the day can do something by convincing people that suicidal attacks are not permitted in Islam. Violence on the baseless pretext of religion can only be tackled by the religion itself. We are in the dire need of learned scholars to rise to the occasion and issue fatwas against such attacks.

The people who do it and the people who endorse such violence seem to have an utter disregard for human life, as if human blood was some cheap commodity being traded on the markets. A cycle of violence that never ends.

It seems really oppressive, when extremists take it upon themselves to decide who should die, when and how.
 
OK...can someone explain to me what beef AQ had against her? This just seems stupid and even politically self-destructive.

It doesn't seem like a Pakistani secret service thing, either...... because of the suicide bit.

What a mess.
 
ahsan28 said:
In simple words, we don't have any solution against suicidal attacks, only scholars of the day can do something by convincing people that suicidal attacks are not permitted in Islam. Violence on the baseless pretext of religion can only be tackled by the religion itself. We are in the dire need of learned scholars to rise to the occasion and issue fatwas against such attacks.

The people who do it and the people who endorse such violence seem to have an utter disregard for human life, as if human blood was some cheap commodity being traded on the markets. A cycle of violence that never ends.

It seems really oppressive, when extremists take it upon themselves to decide who should die, when and how.
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yes it does. another sad day for a sad country.
 
Talha777 said:
All Pakistani politicians are corrupt, even the religious alliance, though not to the extent of the secular parties. If Pakistan's leaders do not want to implement shariah, which is the solution to all its problems, I say might as well destroy Pakistan and reunite with India. It is better to live under secular Hindu government than secular "Muslim" government. This is why many of the great ulama opposed creation of Pakistan, they knew from very beginning it is a fraud and deception. Their warnings have come true.
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yup! back to your usual ahamady trash

destroy Pakistan and reunite with India
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Pakistani parents did not sacrifice their sons for Pakistan so that at the whim of some mirzai teenager we'll give it to your hindu friends .

I have 2 boys of my own plus 2 nephews that you traitors and fake ulemmaa will have to deal with. I take it that these lahnatullahs leaned no lessons form the death of mad mollah of red mosque.

I am free of my father now,and can devote my self to Pakistan fully, so come and get some!

free transport to hell will be provided
It is better to live under secular Hindu government than secular "Muslim" government.
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yeah right! Gajarati Muslims "love" being slaughtered by the thousands every few year.

Muslims in Chenai "adore" being arrested on suspicion of preaching Islam.

and women in Kashmir just "pray" for their husbands to be arrested and never be seen again.

oh joys of Indian secularism!!
 
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