Non-Muslims and Islam

[h-n]

, sister h-n.

If your method in giving dawah is like this, I am not sure non-Muslims will have an interest to come to Islam.

Again, being critical of how I write then what I say, complain to the Moderator.

You obviously haven't read what I have written, then you wouldn't be quoting Dawah, and about them being put off when they are liars.

Frankly there is nothing wrong with how I write. Who says I'm specifically talking to non-Muslims anyway?

Your behind, people have already been told to repent, we are not starting now, we are coming to the end of these countries. We are not starting from the beginning to introduce Islam to them. So don't bother talking to me, like if we are going to sit there talking about Islam in the long term, instead of the US, UK etc being destroyed. So I'm happy that I have placed the first thread on IB was "Collapse of these countries" which helps people to understand what I see, I am not responsible for them not reading it and then talk to me like they are going to teach me how to kindly speak to people. Read, do you really think that a Muslim could learn alot if they were unkind anyway? We don't stop talking about Islam to non-Muslims, but I am talking to Muslims now.

I have found that the Muslims who are critical of me, look less towards the Day of Judgement, the collapse of these countries, the Major signs of the Day of Judgemet then I do. I am not stupid to listen and follow somone who does not look towards the Day of Judgement more then I do.

Also Allah has stated of the people who rejected the clear proofs were sent to Hell. Anyone who isn't repenting, I'm not going to treat them like if they are innocent, after all the natural disasters etc. Is Allah going to call them innocent on the Day of Judgement for rejecting the signs?

I am writing about their misconceptions about people repenting to Allah, they don't repent just because someone is being nice to them.

Also read the other thread on Call to Muslims being one Ummah.


What is it that some of you Muslims don't understand, I am sharing what I know to help you be strong yourselves as when the Dajjal arrives etc ?

I said I don't want to argue with the Muslims. So instead of the Muslims complaining they should read what I have written before complaining about it.

 

[Supreme]

to supreme - I thought you were a christian

...yes, I am. Hence my Way of Life reading 'Christian'.

 

[cat eyes]

, sister h-n.

If your method in giving dawah is like this, I am not sure non-Muslims will have an interest to come to Islam.

the best tact to use is kindness however there is different tactic to use for dawah and being kind is just one in a long list.

 

[kite runner]

mashallah!! great post

 

[marwen]

@ sister h-n :

I liked all you long threads, they reflect a great knowledge about islam, and I admire your franchise as well and your courage to say always the truth.

I want just to add a side-note to this thread so we all muslims remember one thing : That the islamic speech should have three different forms - though it should always be based on truth - depending on who is addressed by our speech :

1) if we are talking to muslims, then our arguments should be based on islamic proofs, using the qur'an and the ahadeeth, and mentioning fatwas of reliable muslim scholars, and we don't forget to be tender and kind with our muslim brothers and sisters. True muslims will obey if you advice them with arguments coming from Allah's book and from the Prophet peace and blessing be upon him.
(I learned on this forum to not say PBUH, but to say it in full words source..).

2) if we are talking to non-muslims who are peaceful and in a context of da'wah, we should be kind in our discussion : not insult them, not despise their beliefs. All we can do is to call them gently and ask them to think about logical arguments and show them what's wrong with their beliefs and what should be the truth. In this case, islamic arguments from qur'an and sunnah won't be so understandable by non-muslims as a first step, because they simply don't believe the qur'an is the words of Allah. We should have a methodology with priorities :
a) show them the existence of Allah.
b) the uniqueness of Allah : just One God.
c) the truth about Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, and all the other prophets Alayhum Assalam.
d) the qur'an is sent to us by Allah through his messenger Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him.
e) the basics of Islam.

3) if we are talking with non-muslims who are aggressive and hurting muslims, we should forget about da'wah in this case until the aggression is over : as defending muslim rights is a priority. And we should talk with the aggressors with a hard tone to show them that we don't accept to be attacked. However we should keep our reaction within islamic recommendation : our reaction should be proportional to the aggression we suffered (the eye by the eye, the tooth by the tooth, etc.).

But we also should not forget that all our actions should be for the sake of Allah, not to retaliate for our dignity, we should be slaves of Allah and we must follow our prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, because he never took revenge for himself, he just defended the word of Allah.

 

[Masuma]

^ subhanAllah brother! :statisfie very enlightening!

And great work sis h-n!

 

[Supreme]

You say that people invent Islam, and a God, whilst you call yourself "supreme"??? What are you a supreme of? Nothing.

It's a username. Don't look too much into it.

There is definitely a Hell, and I look forward to what you have to say about it when you are on the Day of Judgement. People are sent to Hell, as they rejected Islam. They deserve to go to Hell for their sins. You are the fuels of the fire Allah is not going to throw wood in there to keep it a light-you are the fuel! What you have done and said, as allowed those flames to surround you.

Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.

Allah does not wrong them, they sinful people wrong themselves -hence Hell. Just like if a person drinks alcohol and their kidney's don't work, or if they are being lewd and catch HIV, they have done that to themselves. Hell, you are the fuels of the fire, this is what you have done to yourselves.

Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...

People like you and in the past rejected the truth, for the life of this world. When Hell was mentioned they rejected it, so they wouldn't think about the consquences of their actions of rejecting the one God, and the Day of Judgement. What do you think was going to happen? If Hell stops people from repenting (which is a stupid thing to say, as its not Hell, but the choices that they are making, just like people who take drugs etc), that Allah is going to get rid of Hell? Would no one be commiting a sin if he did? No as they reject Islam for the life of this world. Even if he had got rid of Hell, you and others would still be rejecting Islam!!

You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.

Hell they have received warnings for, just as people receive warnings when they smoke and drink, and take drugs etc, they still do it knowing it can cause them harm, but they ignore the warnings to avoid thinking of the consquences and just carry on living their rubbish life just as infidels do. So Hell is there, heed the warning or not, that is upto everybody to choose the path to Paradise or Hell.

Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.

You are not better then Prophet Jesus, Ibrahim, Noah, Lut peace be upon them etc. No Muslim is interested in what you have to say.

Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!

Its not the worst argument, we still stay and look after our parents-its a life time commitment, and Allah provides everything, so as we are grateful to our parents, it makes sense for people to see that we owe Allah everything and to give our thanks to him.

I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.

Don't repent, I don't care, I'm not going to get upset, and cry for you if you don't make it to Paradise.

Likewise.

 

[h-n]

the best tact to use is kindness however there is different tactic to use for dawah and being kind is just one in a long list.

Thanks for willing to mention that, as of course Allah even provided plagues to the people of Egypt as a warning.

 

[h-n]

mashallah!! great post

Thank-you for taking the time to read it and for letting me know.

 

[h-n]

@ sister h-n :

I liked all you long threads, they reflect a great knowledge about islam, and I admire your franchise as well and your courage to say always the truth.

I want just to add a side-note to this thread so we all muslims remember one thing : That the islamic speech should have three different forms - though it should always be based on truth - depending on who is addressed by our speech :

1) if we are talking to muslims, then our arguments should be based on islamic proofs, using the qur'an and the ahadeeth, and mentioning fatwas of reliable muslim scholars, and we don't forget to be tender and kind with our muslim brothers and sisters. True muslims will obey if you advice them with arguments coming from Allah's book and from the Prophet peace and blessing be upon him.
(I learned on this forum to not say PBUH, but to say it in full words source..).

2) if we are talking to non-muslims who are peaceful and in a context of da'wah, we should be kind in our discussion : not insult them, not despise their beliefs. All we can do is to call them gently and ask them to think about logical arguments and show them what's wrong with their beliefs and what should be the truth. In this case, islamic arguments from qur'an and sunnah won't be so understandable by non-muslims as a first step, because they simply don't believe the qur'an is the words of Allah. We should have a methodology with priorities :
a) show them the existence of Allah.
b) the uniqueness of Allah : just One God.
c) the truth about Prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, and all the other prophets Alayhum Assalam.
d) the qur'an is sent to us by Allah through his messenger Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him.
e) the basics of Islam.

3) if we are talking with non-muslims who are aggressive and hurting muslims, we should forget about da'wah in this case until the aggression is over : as defending muslim rights is a priority. And we should talk with the aggressors with a hard tone to show them that we don't accept to be attacked. However we should keep our reaction within islamic recommendation : our reaction should be proportional to the aggression we suffered (the eye by the eye, the tooth by the tooth, etc.).

But we also should not forget that all our actions should be for the sake of Allah, not to retaliate for our dignity, we should be slaves of Allah and we must follow our prophet Muhammad Peace and Blessing Upon Him, because he never took revenge for himself, he just defended the word of Allah.

Salam,

Thanks for taking the time to read them. I don't have any problems with your advice. Just that people should just complain to the Moderator instead of complaining how I write on my threads. After reading "Calling Muslims to be an Ummah" helped for me, so am avoiding arguments.

I have learnt by reading the Quran at home, remembering Allah and the Day of Judgement. I have not used any Scholars to understand Islam. Even some people did not believe me on Ummah, but I asked them were I would have copied them from as they do read from many Scholars, which I got no response. They can have that confirmed on the Day of Judgement. I have used one link for the Major signs of the Day of Judgement thread on there. But no one has taught me not to think about building a Muslim state.


I do not usually quote hadiths etc, as majority its about how to live in this world, and really I don't like looking towards living in this world. I don't change religion, I accept the hadiths etc. But I rarely talk about how to live in this world.

I am happy to share, as everything is from Allah. What we know about will be talked about on the Day of Judgement. Islam is simple, and if anybody gives thought on it, can understand what I had written, and say oh yes, that is easy. Best to learn and read for a short amount of time, instead of spending years asking the same question because you couldn't be bothered to read it.

So thank-you, I appreciate it.

Sister h-n

 

[CosmicPathos]

It's a username. Don't look too much into it.



Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.



Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...




You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.



Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.


Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!



I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.

Likewise.

The very God who created you. I can equally look at your existence as a disgusting or a beautiful one.

Whatever God does is right and good. Good is defined by God, not outside of God.

 

[h-n]

^ subhanAllah brother! :statisfie very enlightening!

And great work sis h-n!

Thanks An33za.

 

[h-n]

It's a username. Don't look too much into it.
Oh, I understand that Islam (and to an extent, Christianity) posits that people are going to eternally burn in excrutiating pain for simply believing something different. It also destroys any notion of a just God; if God was omniscient, He would almost certainly know what it would take to turn me to His 'true' religion- however, if he does not choose to act on this knowledge, and sends me to Hell for His own failings to fully alert me of His 'true' religion, than he is not just.
Again, what kind of just God kills someone for their sins and then sends them to Hell afterwards? Talk about adding insult to injury...
You just don't get it, do you? You've yet to find me any evidence that this Hell of yours even exists. People aren't going to be scared of something they render false; I don't see Hell as any more real, realistic or even logical than Hogwarts from Harry Potter.
Actually, the Islamic concept of Paradise seems thoroughly uninviting. I have no desire of having (sexually immoral!) intercourse with 72 virgins, or spending eternity prostrating in thanks to a diety lacking in self esteem: it all seems rather dull.
Then why are you quoting my posts, if what I have to say is of no interest to you? How irrational!
I give thanks and repent in my prayers daily.
Likewise.

Right so you just sit there and the first username that comes to your head is "Supreme" ???? There's definitely something wrong with that.

Your a joke, you keep on blaming Allah if you go to Hell, when your own actions have sent you there, that is what you have done to yourself.

Allah is Merciful, you going to Hell if you don't repent does not change that.
Allah is Merciful, a person being malicious does not change that.

I have written on tests, ie this thread, "Murder", "Satan refusing to prostrate" and "Show me, Show me (but we're humans)" threads

If you were in Paradise and you said I don't like Allah, then why should you be kept there??? So you deserve to be thrown out, why should you be thrown out to another world still provided by Allah??

You say you believe a God, what and earth are you learning what would happen to sinful people? That Allah was going to treat them to some ice-cream? I suggest you read what a person has written before making the same dribble over and over again. Why should Alalh continue to let someone live as they want if they refuse to accept him. Would you be saying that the angels are oppressed too? We are happy with Allah. You say you worship God, but you can't say what happens to sinful people? Just open your own thread to let people know.

Nevermind about virgins or their numbers, you probably never met one. Of course they aren't used to marrying Virgins as much in the West, considering its also about behaviour, as virgins were shy and not liking to show their nakedness. Nowadays they are happy to sit and show their bodies so they teach females also to already be lewd before having sex. Also I have written the "Society evil" thread. I can see that in the West people are willing to have sex with many people, and females trying to take someone's else's husband knowing that he has children and married. So they are happy to share their Males with other females. Also that all Males who reject Allah, the Day of Judgement, in Paradise and Hell are just boring, and sissys compared to a Muslim Man, so again you don't have to concern yourself with marrying, as if you did get married to a pious women she would have told you to shut up about your dribble.

We Muslims are also happy to save ourselves from Hell, so to not stand with people like yourselves, Pharoah, etc.

I'm quoting what your writing as to respond to your posts.

Oh good, so no need to post anymore dribble. In future just open your own threads.

 

[titus]

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

........

[16:125} You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

.....

[29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

[29:47] We have revealed to you this scripture, and those whom we blessed with the previous scripture will believe in it. Also, some of your people will believe in it. Indeed, those who disregard our revelations are the real disbelievers.

.......

So tell me, h-n, why the obvious antagonism and hatred of non-Muslims? Why do you insult people simply because they do not share your beliefs?

I shall keep you in mind the next time some nice Muslim is trying to convince me what a wonderful existence it would be live under Khilafah. I will remind them that no matter what promises they make and how they envision it, at some point it will come under the rule of people like h-n and life for non-Muslims would become a living hell.

 

[CosmicPathos]

[60:8] GOD does not enjoin you from befriending those who do not fight you because of religion, and do not evict you from your homes. You may befriend them and be equitable towards them. GOD loves the equitable.

[60:9] GOD enjoins you only from befriending those who fight you because of religion, evict you from your homes, and band together with others to banish you. You shall not befriend them. Those who befriend them are the transgressors.

........

[16:125} You shall invite to the path of your Lord with wisdom and kind enlightenment, and debate with them in the best possible manner. Your Lord knows best who has strayed from His path, and He knows best who are the guided ones.

.....

[29:46] Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

[29:47] We have revealed to you this scripture, and those whom we blessed with the previous scripture will believe in it. Also, some of your people will believe in it. Indeed, those who disregard our revelations are the real disbelievers.

.......

So tell me, h-n, why the obvious antagonism and hatred of non-Muslims? Why do you insult people simply because they do not share your beliefs?

I shall keep you in mind the next time some nice Muslim is trying to convince me what a wonderful existence it would be live under Khilafah. I will remind them that no matter what promises they make and how they envision it, at some point it will come under the rule of people like h-n and life for non-Muslims would become a living hell.

The thing is taht non-Muslims are fighting Muslims in one way or another. Its impossible to befriend them.

 

[titus]

The thing is taht non-Muslims are fighting Muslims in one way or another. Its impossible to befriend them.

Sorry, but that is B.S.

If you want to treat everyone as your enemy then it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. You should be better and smarter than that.

 

[CosmicPathos]

Sorry, but that is B.S.

If you want to treat everyone as your enemy then it will become a self-fulfilling prophesy. You should be better and smarter than that.

Its BS just cuz you dont like it? Well Id need a more convincing reason to label something as BS.

Well, Muslims and non-Muslims are anti-thesis of each other. I dont see them to be friends. You make friendship with people who share things with you, with whom you feel a connection. I wonder what sort of a connection a God-fearing Muslim can feel with a non-Muslim?

 

[titus]

Well, Muslims and non-Muslims are anti-thesis of each other.

That's not what the Quran says. In fact from what I know of the Quran it says quite the opposite.

The Quran allows marriage with non-Muslims and explicitly does not forbid friendship with non-Muslims. My question would be what sort of God-fearing Muslims would question the Quran by saying that non-Muslims and Muslims cannot befriend each other.

Its BS just cuz you dont like it? Well Id need a more convincing reason to label something as BS.

I got it from the Quran. Do you think I have misinterpreted it? Does the Quran forbid friendships between Muslims and non-Muslims?

From everything I have read Muhammad did not believe that all non-Muslims were his enemy, and he led people in battle, so why should you?

Believe it or not, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If you believe everyone is your enemy then you need to get out more because you could not be more wrong.

Also, do not confuse "not believing in Islam" with "being and enemy of Islam". They are not the same.

 

[CosmicPathos]

That's not what the Quran says. In fact from what I know of the Quran it says quite the opposite.

The Quran allows marriage with non-Muslims and explicitly does not forbid friendship with non-Muslims. My question would be what sort of God-fearing Muslims would question the Quran by saying that non-Muslims and Muslims cannot befriend each other.



I got it from the Quran. Do you think I have misinterpreted it? Does the Quran forbid friendships between Muslims and non-Muslims?

From everything I have read Muhammad did not believe that all non-Muslims were his enemy, and he led people in battle, so why should you?

Believe it or not, not every non-Muslim is an enemy of Islam. If you believe everyone is your enemy then you need to get out more because you could not be more wrong.

Also, do not confuse "not believing in Islam" with "being and enemy of Islam". They are not the same.

as far as I am concerned, Muslim man can marry a monotheistic non-Muslim woman of Christian or Judaic faith. As far as I know, monotheism does not exist in the latter two religions anymore.

The non-Muslim rejects the God that a Muslim takes as Lord. In order to please our Lord as a Muslim, we should not be friend those who say vile things about our Lord and reject His existence and the final religion chosen by Him aka Islam.

 

[Lynx]

why doesn't monotheism exist in judaism anymore?