Now France bans Muslims from praying outside mosques

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It is attempting to show it is about all prayer in general,
Though it is obvious it is targeting Islam - since it is Muslim prayer that is increasing while others are emptying out - according to newspaper reports, congregation numbers in other places are dwindling.
even the newspaper report in question mentions Islam specifically.
 
People are praying in the streets holding up traffic? I haven't read the article yet, but if that is true it sounds suicidal to me.

I was rather thinking about pedestrian traffic. Including into and out of buildings on the same street as the mosque.
 
the only times when mosques are completely full are Jumah, Ramadan & Eid. Can't the government and public be bit more accommodating and considerate? Aren't they accommodating when they have their own big festivals, sport tournaments, carnivals, stage performances etc etc? Or they could have tried to help the Muslims by other means instead of banning it out-rightly.

We need to look deep and ponder upon the essence of these bans. The point is that today they banned this, tomorrow they will ban something else and day after something else and eventually they'll say Islam is banned.

Our reality is so sad and shameful that we got people with 'Muslim' tags actually supporting and accepting these bans, instead of trying to analyze the situation & speaking against it and feeling bad for our Muslim brothers/sisters there.
 
:sl:

And nudity/immodesty is an obstruction to my eyes and state of mind, but hey people adore picking and choosing.

*yawn*
 
the only times when mosques are completely full are Jumah, Ramadan & Eid. Can't the government and public be bit more accommodating and considerate? Aren't they accommodating when they have their own big festivals, sport tournaments, carnivals, stage performances etc etc? Or they could have tried to help the Muslims by other means instead of banning it out-rightly.

We need to look deep and ponder upon the essence of these bans. The point is that today they banned this, tomorrow they will ban something else and day after something else and eventually they'll say Islam is banned.

Our reality is so sad and shameful that we got people with 'Muslim' tags actually supporting and accepting these bans, instead of trying to analyze the situation & speaking against it and feeling bad for our Muslim brothers/sisters there.
Yea but what we can do? I think we should focus on dawa, the more people know about Islam the difficult it will be to pass these kinds of laws. Right now what they have created is a fear of Islam, so people see it as us vs them.
 
Yea but what we can do? I think we should focus on dawa, the more people know about Islam the difficult it will be to pass these kinds of laws. Right now what they have created is a fear of Islam, so people see it as us vs them.

Asslamu Aliakum,

Some Muslims are at fault. I noticed some Muslims create this atmosphere of us vs them too. Many non-Muslims live different lives to Muslims and some of the things Muslims say can be quite offensive to non-Muslims. Some of us need to be more sensitive and take a diplomatic approach to dealing with these issues. Also, we need to appreciate that some Europeans feel change is happening too fast (e.g. immigration) and they are simply scared. I'm just speaking from experience.
 
Yea but what we can do?
We can do a lot: speak out against it, create awareness by any effective mean, feel bad about the situation of Muslims who are affected by such laws, the least we can do is hate it in our hearts, make dua'a for those Muslims and make a general dua'a that Allah give power to righteous people within ummah.

Many of the posts in this thread by Muslims, unfortunately, show the opposite of what we are supposed to do.

I think we should focus on dawa, the more people know about Islam the difficult it will be to pass these kinds of laws.
my brother, that's fine and important; however, we need to remember that dawah to kuffaar isn't every Muhammad, Fatima, Abdullah, Aisha, Abdul Rehman, Umar's job. We first need to give dawah to ourselves, our household, relatives & friends and correct our obligatory affairs before we think about giving dawah to kuffaar. In our time, it's a fall notion circulated among the laymen that everyone must give dawah to kuffaar while many of us don't even fullfil our fard ayn, and neither have perquisite tools of giving dawah. For example, some of the people in this very thread don't even understand what being a Muslim and tawheed entail, can we then expect these people to give some sort of dawah to a kafir?

Right now what they have created is a fear of Islam, so people see it as us vs them.
Yes, fear of Islam has been created. In my humble opinion, they are just afraid of becoming decent humans because that's the fadl (benefit)/outcome of believing & practicing Islam. As far them vs us, then it has always been them vs us and it will always be like that. How can it be otherwise when they reject Islam while we believe in it!! Of course, some of them are not hostile towards us and we can live with them perfectly fine, have treaties with them, trade with them, do business transactions with them, show them kindness and gentlness etc., but it still doesn't mean that we can take them as friends or the line of us vs them vanishes. At the end of the day, they still reject Islam.
 
You protect the capital before the profit.
Right now the capital's being stolen in front of our eyes and we are thinking of the profit?
 
:sl:

And nudity/immodesty is an obstruction to my eyes and state of mind, but hey people adore picking and choosing.

*yawn*

Well that works in both directions really. If you can outlaw nudity in the streets (for anything other than sanitary reasons) then I don't see why you couldn't outlaw the other extreme on the same basis. I think you work against your cause when you attack this "immodesty" stuff. As soon as you get it being ok to stop people from being "immodest", you're got the basis for banning the other extreme. I say the same thing to Christian fundamentalists regarding separation of church and state. Their pushing the bible into everything is only laying the framework for muslims (who they hate) and others to do the same.
 
It was never us vs them kind of situation but like salman said, them vs us. Think back a little bit up until the first crusade. Ask yourself, how did it begin? Lol I'll end it here cause well, I'd be starting a whole new topic and this isn't the thread for it.
 
the only times when mosques are completely full are Jumah, Ramadan & Eid. Can't the government and public be bit more accommodating and considerate? Aren't they accommodating when they have their own big festivals, sport tournaments, carnivals, stage performances etc etc? Or they could have tried to help the Muslims by other means instead of banning it out-rightly.

I just want to highlight this as this clearly shows Islamophobia on the french government part.

I've been to France and I've seen in Paris in the weekends people lining up outside clubs or piling outside on the streets and sidewalks while trying to get in clubs/bars or get out drunk, and they obstructed my path.
The french government accommodate alcohol and sex industry, why can't they accommodate people who just want to pray to God peacefully?
 
Well that works in both directions really. If you can outlaw nudity in the streets (for anything other than sanitary reasons) then I don't see why you couldn't outlaw the other extreme on the same basis. I think you work against your cause when you attack this "immodesty" stuff. As soon as you get it being ok to stop people from being "immodest", you're got the basis for banning the other extreme. I say the same thing to Christian fundamentalists regarding separation of church and state. Their pushing the bible into everything is only laying the framework for muslims (who they hate) and others to do the same.

Would you care to explain how that works against me in my favor because I honestly don't see that? Are u implying that covering is an extreme, when it's really not? There is no disadvantage to being modest, so I fail to understand your point.
 
as-salaamu alaykum

Bismillah

I've been to France and I've seen in Paris in the weekends people lining up outside clubs or piling outside on the streets and sidewalks while trying to get in clubs/bars or get out drunk, and they obstructed my path.
Jazak Allah khayran for mentioning this specific point akhee. This is a weekly thing isn't if not daily. I have seen this crowd and lineups every weekend.

Some Muslims are at fault. I noticed some Muslims create this atmosphere of us vs them too.
Please elaborate and give examples.

Many non-Muslims live different lives to Muslims and some of the things Muslims say can be quite offensive to non-Muslims.
Again, please give us examples of these offensive things.

Some of us need to be more sensitive and take a diplomatic approach to dealing with these issues.
Please elaborate on this diplomatic approach. Like how exactly?

BarakAllahu feekum
 


I just want to highlight this as this clearly shows Islamophobia on the french government part.

I've been to France and I've seen in Paris in the weekends people lining up outside clubs or piling outside on the streets and sidewalks while trying to get in clubs/bars or get out drunk, and they obstructed my path.
The french government accommodate alcohol and sex industry, why can't they accommodate people who just want to pray to God peacefully?

ditto that I was really disgusted by the french bloody insufferable frogs .. couldn't wait to get out of there.. they also had very very poor hygiene, they smelled of stinky feet and unwashed urine & other things I don't want to defile this forum by making mention of.. I wondered ever since where they get the audacity to act so superior.. ^o)
 
They will accommodate and arrange for everything.... party.. prostitution.
Even they clear the roads and traffic.... make arrangements for a Tour de france.. Politician parade..
But when it comes to Prayer gathering by Muslims... hope it doesnt last more than 20mins... but they cant allow it.

If you are a common man...(meaning with some common sense).. All that is happening in Europe.. will give you a clear idea that - the governments are trying to restrict Islam with all possible silly reasons. Should not cover your body well.. Should not have minarets... Cant gather for prayer...


If a country is in synch with islamic law / muslim majority country and they say that - there are restrictions for non-muslims... seems understandable.
Similarly..If an European country is calling itself a "Christian republic " .. with biblical law..then its fine and understandable that they restrict other religion.But.. for the West who call themself the modern world.. democratic.. blah blah... equal rights.. human rights.. free to practice...free speech... women freedom..bringing these rules against a community ???? They are fools and they thinking others are fools - thats the worst part.
 
they could never have sold "secularism" as anti-religion when they introduced it into the mainstream, or their heads would have likely been on the ends of pitchforks.
they claimed it was a separation of state and religion, with all having freedom to practice - so many cheered.
now - as they slowly desensitize the people and promote all types of dirty practices - they re-interpret it as "without religion" in the hope that the stain they've put on people's hearts has hardened them from thinking.

i will paste this part and let you read the whole article on my site - it's a good read for those of us who are concerned about the situation and what it's pointing to.
it is a story of a man who grew up in nazi germany.

Each step was so small, so inconsequential, so well explained or, on occasion, ‘regretted,’ that,
unless one were detached from the whole process from the beginning,
unless one understood what the whole thing was in principle,
what all these ‘little measures’ that no ‘patriotic German’ could resent must some day lead to,
one no more saw it developing from day to day than a farmer in his field sees the corn growing.
One day it is over his head.

"How is this to be avoided, among ordinary men, even highly educated ordinary men?
Frankly, I do not know. I do not see, even now.
Many, many times since it all happened I have pondered that pair of great maxims,
Principiis obsta andFinem respice
—‘Resist the beginnings’ and ‘Consider the end.’

complete story here:
http://abz2000.com/TheyThoughtTheyWereFree.aspx
 
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they could never have sold "secularism" as anti-religion when they introduced it into the mainstream, or their heads would have likely been on the ends of pitchforks.
they claimed it was a separation of state and religion, with all having freedom to practice - so many cheered.
now - as they slowly desensitize the people and promote all types of dirty practices - they re-interpret it as "without religion" in the hope that the stain they've put on people's hearts has hardened them from thinking.

True enough. It's important to distinguish secularism as an idea, which is actually highly enabling for plurality of religious freedom, and this sort of 'interpretation' which, on further reflection, I don't really think is 'secularist' at all.. it's just plain Islamophobia.
 
:sl:
@abz2000
Thank you for the video. I have only watched the first 10 minutes. Downloading and saving it for viewing later. I think I get your point. Here's my take on your viewpoint.

1. The last Caliphate lost not because the enemies were strong but because the Muslims had become weak. Remember that during the time of the sahabah r.a., the Muslims had gained victory in the face of overwhelming odds. Out-manned and ill-equipped the Muslims still won. Why? Because they were fighting for Allah and for Islam.

Now compare the outcome of the Battle of Badr and the Battle of Uhud.

In the second battle, the Muslims lost. Why? One reason was that they did not obey the Holy Prophet's orders totally without question. They left their post when they had been told to stand fast no matter what happened. The other reason was that they were tempted by the spoils of war, the siren call of duniawi.

The same thing is happening today. Leaders who claim to be champion Islam are merely doing so to gain the support of the people. What these leaders really wanted was not to fight for Islam but rather to use Islam to further their own selfish ends.

For example, I once heard that if all the Muslims in the Arabian peninsula were united in the cause of Islam, the Jews in Israel would be a thing of the past. The number of Muslims compared to the Jews there is so overwhelming that it was said bullets wouldn't be needed to annihilate the Jews. Just one mouthful of spit from each and every Muslim there would have been enough to drown all the Jews.

Yet, that tiny, puny little state of Israel is able to bully the Muslims there at will. Why? Because the Muslims there have forgotten about Allah and Islam and are too busy fighting for the cause of assobiyah. They are fighting in the name of their race and in the name of their nation. So how do they expect to win?

2. They can never take Islam from the hearts of the true believers. It is the Muslims themselves who have given up Islam. How so? One insidious poison working to destroy the very fabric of the Muslim way of life is the call for reformation. Seriously, how can you change something that is perfect without degrading it? Have we all forgotten that Allah declared in verse 3 of surah Maidah:

"... This day I have perfected for you your religion..." (rough translation, please refer to original Arabic for full meaning)?

I stand steadfast on my personal viewpoint that whosoever calls for the reformation of Islam is simply saying that Allah has lied. How preposterous a presumption! How idiotic to think that mere mortals can improve on what Allah had perfected!

I digress. Back on topic.

The way I see it, those people who are Muslims in France are mostly not indigenous natives. They are immigrants. They did not migrate to France in the name of Islam. They went there to seek duniawi. To put it bluntly, they went there looking for filthy lucre. Consider this:

Say you go to the house of a non-Muslim. He lets you in. Then when it is time for solah, you spread your sujaddah in the middle of the living room right between your host and the tv he is watching. Does this make sense? In the first place, what are you doing in the house of the non-Muslim? And if you want to perform solah, is it not sensible to do it in a quiet corner of his house after asking his permission?

Please understand that I am not saying Muslims should not stand up for their rights. What I am saying is to stop making ridiculous demands. The house of Arqam bin Abi al-Arqam, by Allah's will, had been given to us as an example of what to do in situations like this.

I think I should pause for breath here. WaLLahu aklam.
 
then we need to acknowledge that people who believe in God are foreigners in France regardless of their nationality, since it's "their house".
we can't live as tenants forever - we need to build a house where we can serve God without let or hindrance.
and a nation that will respond if any of our brothers and sisters are illegally invaded.
we are the strangers
and the strangers shall succeed.

this is not aimed at you - since you acknowledge there is a difference which we have not created, it is however enlightening and educational
:
 
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