Outrage over controversial Islamic group's plan to march through Wootton Bassett

[Supreme]

Anjem Choudary: an open letter to families of British soldiers in Afghanistan

This man is actively seeking an arrest warrant with his name on, although he'd better think again- there's no alcohol in prisons, or women to have casual sex with!

I saw this video about him a week ago, made me laugh. The man patcondell himself seems like a miserable atheist, but it is rather funny how he portrays Choudary:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aQSJae6RuCk

 

[Skavau]

Freedom of speech is all very good until people start offending others.

Every demonstration offends someone. Every form of humour offends someone. I was watching Dylan Moran All About Me last night and he made false statements about evolution and religion (in particular catholicism). A rather strident Catholic could've been offended. Should he rightfully complain?

 

[The_Prince]

The PM has warned the group that if any offence is caused to the families of the fallen British troops then they will face prosecution. It was stated on Sky News. Also on Sky News the 7 muslim protesters that protested against British troops have been charged! Get in there!

indeed get in there, once again the west shows its hypocrisy, so now people will get arrested for offending someone? LOL, and i have heard so many british people say people dont have a right to not be offended, and freedom of speech is very sacred, but when its against , now theres a different standard, lol and your proud of your hypocrisy? indeed, get in there, Muslims have been right about you people all along.

if these Muslims get arrested for their right to freedom of speech, then other Muslims should have the guts to support them, because their rights are being fringed upon, and if the shoe was on the other person, westerners would be screaming out FREEDOM OF SPEECH ITS OURRRRR RIGHT!

and then we should make such protests the norm just to teach you hypocrites a lesson. so indeed, try to silence the freedom of speech, and show your hypocrisy, but it will only backfire on you, trust me on that.

 

[KAding]

what ever happened to freedom of speech, and that you dont have a right to not be offended? typical western HYPOCRITES, start crying foul play when the freedom of speech affects them and makes them feel bad, when the freedom of speech attacks something they hold to be sacred and honourable, oh well, feel a taste of your philosophy, doesnt taste too good now does it.

I can't follow you. Has anyone called for a ban on this march? If so, then I agree it would be hypocritical. If not, then were is the hypocrisy?

 

[جوري]

I can't follow you. Has anyone called for a ban on this march? If so, then I agree it would be hypocritical. If not, then were is the hypocrisy?

he threat of persecution looming for the march as per 'sky news' isn't hypocrisy in your book?
The rest of us understood what he wrote.. perhaps the problem is selective comprehension from your end?!


all the best

 

[The_Prince]

I can't follow you. Has anyone called for a ban on this march? If so, then I agree it would be hypocritical. If not, then were is the hypocrisy?

over 200,000 people on facebook have called for its ban, and their number is growing, then you have the tabloids, and then you have the PM threatning to arrest them if they cause offense to the famillies as report by sky!

and mr blackpool is also against it, the majority of brits want this banned.

 

[KAding]

over 200,000 people on facebook have called for its ban, and their number is growing, then you have the tabloids, and then you have the PM threatning to arrest them if they cause offense to the famillies as report by sky!

and mr blackpool is also against it, the majority of brits want this banned.

Then these people are indeed hypocrites. However, they are not in a position to call for a ban, as there are constitutional guarantees in place that allow anyone to organize a protest.

Btw, what is your position exactly. Do you think the UK government should attempt to ban the protest?

 

[JoshuaD]

Every demonstration offends someone. Every form of humour offends someone. I was watching Dylan Moran All About Me last night and he made false statements about evolution and religion (in particular catholicism). A rather strident Catholic could've been offended. Should he rightfully complain?

Yes but the planned march is being planned to take place in Wootton Bassett in order to cause the maximum possible amount of offence to the British people. They could protest anywhere in the UK they wanted but they chose to do it in Wootton Bassett.

 

[Supreme]

Then these people are indeed hypocrites. However, they are not in a position to call for a ban, as there are constitutional guarantees in place that allow anyone to organize a protest.

Btw, what is your position exactly. Do you think the UK government should attempt to ban the protest?

Absoloutely not. It's the rights of these ex alcoholics to do whatever they want with their time now they're not spending it on the booze. However, the media needn't report on this at all, nor should any counter demonstration happen, because this will severely frustrate Choudary and co, as they won't be getting the attention they want. But even if this isn't banned, Choudary's always announcing such demonstrations but never ever has the balls and bravery to carry through with them.

 

[aamirsaab]

I don't agree with intentionally offending people.

I also don't agree with double standards.

The march should be allowed under freedom of speech.

 

[JoshuaD]

Johnson 'will back' Wootton Bassett Islamic march ban

Mr Choudary said he wanted to draw attention to Afghanistan's "occupation"

The home secretary has said he will back any request from police or local government to ban an Islamic group marching through Wootton Bassett.

Alan Johnson said he felt "revulsion" at the thought of Islam4UK's proposed march through the Wiltshire town.

Wootton Bassett has become famous for its repatriation ceremonies for fallen British service personnel.

Islam4UK says it wants to parade empty coffins through the town to draw attention to Afghan war casualties.

Mr Johnson said: "The idea that anyone would stage this kind of demonstration in Wootton Bassett fills me with revulsion.

"I find it particularly offensive that the town, which has acted in such a moving and dignified way in paying tribute to our troops who have made the ultimate sacrifice for their country, should be targeted in this manner." We are going to do our utmost to make sure that this march doesn't go ahead

He added: "If the Wiltshire Police and local authority feel that a procession of this kind has the potential to cause public disorder and seek my consent to a banning order, then I would have no hesitation in supporting that request."

Islam4UK, which has been linked to the radical al-Muhajiroun movement, said the town was chosen to create maximum publicity.

Spokesman Anjem Choudary said: "We are having a procession, it's in Wootton Bassett but it's not about the people there and it's not against them personally - rather it's to highlight the real cost of war in Afghanistan.

"The sad reality of the situation is that if I were to hold it somewhere else it would not have the media attention that it has now.

"If I am to balance between the sensitivity of having it in Wootton Bassett and the possibility of continuing the quagmire and cycle of death in Afghanistan, then quite honestly I'm going to balance in favour of the latter."

'Dangerous and divisive'

Wiltshire Police said it had not received an application from any group to hold a march in the town.

Marches and demonstrations can be banned if police believe they are likely to endanger public order.
People in the town have lined the streets for the repatriation processions

Earlier, Gordon Brown, David Cameron and the town's MP James Gray all condemned the group's plans.

North Wiltshire MP Mr Gray told BBC Radio 5 live: "Fine Mr Choudary, say what you want, I detest what you say, but please, please don't come to Wootton Bassett."

Social Cohesion Minister Shahid Malik added: "Anjem Choudary rightly has a reputation as a dangerous and divisive figure in the UK, however, he does not speak for Muslims in the UK."

Wootton Bassett's mayor Councillor Steve Bucknell said the town, which has a population of just over 11,000, was entirely inappropriate for any march, protest or demonstration which refers to Afghanistan or Iraq.

"We are going to do our utmost to make sure that this march doesn't go ahead," he said, adding that the town's council had received dozens of e-mails and phone calls from people concerned with the issue.

Locals have turned out to honour the corteges of more than 100 service personnel killed in Iraq and Afghanistan, as they made their way from nearby RAF Lyneham to a morgue in Oxford.

Islam4UK said its march would not coincide with a repatriation ceremony.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8440408.stm

Good!

 

[Amadeus85]

I don't agree with intentionally offending people.

I also don't agree with double standards.

The march should be allowed under freedom of speech.

That's why I believe in good old cenzorship.

Total freedom of speech is typical child of Paris Hilton and Lady Gaga's civilization.

 

[Blackpool]

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/wiltshire/8440408.stm

Good!

EXCELLENT. I am expecting the march through Wootten Bassett to be banned. :shade:

 

[aadil77]

EXCELLENT. I am expecting the march through Wootten Bassett to be banned. :shade:

Whether or not it is banned in that location it should still go ahead, don't you agree?

 

[Blackpool]

Whether or not it is banned in that location it should still go ahead, don't you agree?

Not in Wootten Bassett I don't nor any town that carries fallen troops through. Bans in these towns should be put in place just as it had in Luton with the EDL march where many muslims in here praised the government action..

I can't stand Anjem Choudary and if I had the power to do so I would have hung him for treason years ago.

 

[aadil77]

Not in Wootten Bassett I don't nor any town that carries fallen troops through. Bans in these towns should be put in place just as it had in Luton with the EDL march where many muslims in here praised the government action..

I can't stand Anjem Choudary and if I had the power to do so I would have hung him for treason years ago.

Not many can stand him, but that protest just has to go ahead theres too much ignorance towards the real victims of these wars

I find it disgusting and insulting when the media goes overboard everytime a single soldier dies when theres a thousand fold more dead muslim men, women and children because of their actions and not a single mention of them in the news

btw what treason has mr anjem commited?

 

[KAding]

Not many can stand him, but that protest just has to go ahead theres too much ignorance towards the real victims of these wars

I find it disgusting and insulting when the media goes overboard everytime a single soldier dies when theres a thousand fold more dead muslim men, women and children because of their actions and not a single mention of them in the news

That is true. There certainly is a lot less focus on civilian casualties in the Afghan war than in, say, the Iraq war.

Some are trying to keep track though, like the UN. Here is an article from last summer.

Civilian casualties in Afghanistan keep rising, finds UN report

31 July 2009 –The ongoing conflict in Afghanistan continues to take a heavy toll on the country’s civilians, according to the United Nations mission there, which recorded over 1,000 deaths in the first six months of 2009 – 24 per cent more than during the same period last year.

“Both anti-government elements (AGEs) and pro-government forces (PGFs) are responsible for the increase in civilian casualties,” the mission, known as UNAMA, said in its Mid-Year Bulletin on the Protection of Civilians in Armed Conflict in Afghanistan.

The report, prepared by UNAMA’s Human Rights Unit, focused on improvised explosive devices (IED)/suicide attacks carried out by AGEs, and airstrikes conducted by PGF, the two tactics which the mission says continue to claim the largest number of civilian lives in the ongoing armed conflict.

However, it added that more civilians are being killed by the armed opposition than by the Afghan security and international military forces.

UNAMA recorded 1,013 civilian deaths in the first six months of 2009, an increase of 24 per cent as compared to the same period in 2008. Of these, 59 per cent (595 deaths) were due to AGEs and 30.5 per cent (310 deaths) to PGFs.

“This represents a significant shift from 2007 when PGFs were responsible for 41 per cent and AGEs for 46 per cent of civilian deaths,” the mission stated, adding that it highlights the need for all parties to the conflict, particularly the armed opposition which is responsible for the majority of avoidable deaths, to take all necessary measures to avoid the killing of innocent civilians.

Of the 595 civilian deaths attributed to AGEs activities, 400 were the result of indiscriminate use of IEDs and suicide attacks, which is responsible for 67 per cent of all deaths caused by the armed opposition.

Meanwhile, operations carried out by the Government of Afghanistan and its allies “have resulted in a rising toll in terms of civilian deaths and injuries and destruction of infrastructure, including homes and assets, which are essential for survival and the maintenance of livelihoods,” stated the report.

UNAMA noted that international military forces have tried to minimize the number of civilian casualties resulting from their operations. Nevertheless, “airstrikes remain the largest cause of civilian deaths attributed to PGF during the first six months of 2009,” with 40 incidents of airstrikes since the beginning of 2009 in which 200 civilians reportedly lost their lives.

While acknowledging “a greater openness” by the international military forces, in particular the Security Council-mandated International Security Assistance Force (ISAF), with regard to such matters, the mission remained concerned about a number of issues, including the level of transparency of the forces and their capacity or willingness to provide information to UNAMA.

UN human rights chief Navi Pillay warned that civilian casualties were likely to continue rising unless more effective preventive measures were taken.

“All parties involved in this conflict should take all measures to protect civilians, and to ensure the independent investigation of all civilian casualties, as well as justice and remedies for the victims,” said Ms. Pillay.

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=31636&Cr=afghan&Cr1=civilian#

The Guardian also has a good story on this:

Afghanistan civilian casualties: what are the real figures?

Spiralling military deaths in Afghanistan have obscured catastrophic civilian casualties. How many people have died?

Afghanistan civilian casualties are difficult to measure: women pray by the family grave at a local cemetery in Kabul. Photograph: Paula Bronstein/Getty Images

Two awful incidents in Afghanistan today: in Zabul province, two US soldiers were killed by a suicide bomber in a car just outside a military base.

Meanwhile, another suicide bomber on foot blew himself up in a busy market in Uruzgan province. He was targeting a security forces convoy but his victims were civilians: 10 died (including two boys aged 12 and 14) and another 13 were wounded.

While we are pretty good at providing detailed statistical breakdowns of coalition military casualties (and by we, I mean the media as a whole), we're not so good at providing any kind of breakdown of Afghan civilian casualties.

There has been some work done. Human Rights Watch has published breakdowns of civilian casualties, and academics such as Mark Herold at the University of New Hampshire have done detailed reporting on very specific periods of the operation.

Obviously, collecting accurate statistics in one of the most dangerous countries in the world is difficult. But the paucity of reliable data on this means that one of the key measures of the war has been missing from almost all reporting.

You've noticed it too - asking us why we publish military deaths but not civilian casualties. So, we're going to give it a go.

The United Nations Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) publishes statistics on civilian casualties, splitting them into deaths caused by government/military forces, anti-government forces and so on. True, they're not very visible on the UNAMA site and are not updated regularly in a visible way - but they do seem to be the best we can get. They published a report earlier this year which provided some details. Others have been released in press briefings. So the latest figures we have, reported by IRIN, show that over 2000 civilians have died this year so far.

We've summarised the numbers below and you can get the full data going back to 2006 on the google spreadsheet attached. Take a look and let us know what you think - and what you can do with it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/news/datablog/2009/nov/19/afghanistan-civilian-casualties-statistics-data

I assume the protest in Wootton Bassett will be about all civilian casualties in Afghanistan?

 

[S_87]

Never heard of this guy or his group. Is he the muslim equivalent of Fred Phelps?

The last things muslims in the west need is a MORE tarnished image. I think you're right, he does this and other muslims, sane ones not belonging to this group may have to pay for it.

this group of people literally plan these things and call the media and let it be known before hand. why? because they want attention and they think they are hard and controversial when they march with police protection and have media coverage
then when muslims feel the backlash they sit back and watch

 

[Uthman]

Please don't listen to Anjem Choudary by Mehdi Hasan

Fury over British Muslim cleric's anti-war march threat

Islam group refuses to scrap march

The debate beyond Wootton Bassett by Salma Yaqoob

 

[The_Prince]

Yes but the planned march is being planned to take place in Wootton Bassett in order to cause the maximum possible amount of offence to the British people. They could protest anywhere in the UK they wanted but they chose to do it in Wootton Bassett.

so what? last i checked its not a crime to get offended, its so amazing you guys start going against the very things you tell us Muslims! when you seek to cause maximum offense to Muslims by insulting our prophet, religion, and protest infront of our mosques, you say oh well thats a democracy with freedom of speech! now when the shoe is on the other foot you start crying foul play!

EDL members going around England calling Muslims terrorists, calling Allah a pedophile, calling for violence etc etc is a maximum cause for offense to the Muslim community in the UK, i dont see anyone banning them.