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islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Inshallah i'll share from different sources, some of which will be
Local (pakistan) news papers
Testimonies/statements of others whose kin are over there
Friends who are over there
other news sites not pressured by the gov'ts to report only what they are told
Bro, all the previous threads on this topic were closed because of him blindly defending that dictator's regime. And all my posts were deleted from his thread "pakistan" and his tall tales were left on there. So i don't want his lies in here.
Inshallah i'll share from different sources, some of which will be
Local (pakistan) news papers
Testimonies/statements of others whose kin are over there
Friends who are over there
other news sites not pressured by the gov'ts to report only what they are told
But, poor brother Doorster, you might hurt his feelings by asking for his posts to be deleted.
Despite the fact that I'm not very fond of the his posts, I think it's unfair to have him censored. As long as he is following the rules of this board and not being so overly disrespectful, he should be free to post.
Teeeheeehee, you sound like a bullying kid who doesn't want other people to play. :giggling:
Bro, all the previous threads on this topic were closed because of him blindly defending that dictator's regime. And all my posts were deleted from his thread "pakistan" and his tall tales were left on there. So i don't want his lies in here.
wilberhum
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
You just can deal with the fact that armed vigilanties running around is not something any government can allow and no reasonable person would want. In time you will have 50 gangs and every part of town will be controled and laws inforced by different gangs.
Now if you want to over throw the goverment, that is one thing, but gang rule is another.
That is so far from the truth I hardly recognized it. :thumbs_doInshallah i'll share from different sources, some of which will be
Local (pakistan) news papers
Testimonies/statements of others whose kin are over there
Friends who are over there
other news sites not pressured by the gov'ts to report only what they are told
Bro, all the previous threads on this topic were closed because of him blindly defending that dictator's regime. And all my posts were deleted from his thread "pakistan" and his tall tales were left on there. So i don't want his lies in here.
You just can deal with the fact that armed vigilanties running around is not something any government can allow and no reasonable person would want. In time you will have 50 gangs and every part of town will be controled and laws inforced by different gangs.
Now if you want to over throw the goverment, that is one thing, but gang rule is another.
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Here's a little history first of the masjid first.
The Mosque: The Lal Masjid (literally, "Red Mosque") is a descriptive name, as the building has red walls and a white dome.
The Schools: The Lal Masjid is affiliated with two religious seminaries, one for men and one for women. The women's religious school (Jamia Hafsa) is adjacent to the mosque. The men's religious school (Jamia Faridia) is located a few kilometers away. Together, the two religious schools have a population of about 10,000 students.
Location: The Lal Masjid is in downtown Islamabad, the capital city of Pakistan. It is located near the Parliament building, and within walking distance of the headquarters for the ISI intelligence service.
Leadership: The leader of the Lal Masjid at the time of its founding was Maulana Muhammad Abdullah, an outspoken cleric who supported the U.S.-sponsored rebellion against Soviet troops in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Maulana Abdullah was assassinated inside the mosque compound in the late 1990s. His two sons, Maulana Abdul Aziz and Abdul Rashid Ghazi, then took over leadership of the mosque in 1998.
History: The Lal Masjid was founded in 1965, and was a religious and political center for the city's elite and government officials. The mosque was rumored to have been organized and supported by the ISI intelligence service.
During the 1980s, the mosque helped recruit fighters for the Afghan rebellion against Soviet rule. In recent years, the mosque administration has called for Islamic law (sharia) to be imposed in Islamabad. The mosque leadership strongly criticized President Musharraf's decision to join the U.S. in its post-9/11 "war on terror," and killing of Muslims.
Conflict: The Lal Masjid administration and students have been in an escalating conflict with government authorities since January 2007. Government officials accuse the mosque leadership of organizing a vigilante "vice-squad" which has conducted raids against brothels and internet cafes, and kidnappings of police officers and suspected prostitutes. In April 2007, the mosque administration set up its own Islamic court in violation of government sanctions. The conflict came to a head in July 2007 with a standoff between police forces and students and mosque leaders who barricaded themselves inside the mosque compound.
The actual casualty figure still cannot be independently verified. According to some reports, Abdul Sattar Edhi was asked by the government to arrange for as much as four hundred burial shrouds. According to the latest government accounts, no hostages were found inside the mosque premises contradicting its own intelligence reports that women and children were being held against their will. Also, there are numerous accounts of witnesses seeing the mosque compound littered with hundreds of bodies. The media personnel were invited to witness the burials of large number of deceased from the Red Mosque. According to them, many coffins contained multiple severed limbs and it was hard to judge if only one victim was being buried in each coffin.
Here's a little history first of the masjid first.
The Mosque: The Lal Masjid (literally, "Red Mosque") is a descriptive name, as the building has red walls and a white dome.
The Schools: The Lal Masjid is affiliated with two religious seminaries, one for men and one for women. The women's religious school (Jamia Hafsa) is adjacent to the mosque. The men's religious school (Jamia Faridia) is located a few kilometers away. Together, the two religious schools have a population of about 10,000 students.
Location: The Lal Masjid is in downtown Islamabad, the capital city of Pakistan. It is located near the Parliament building, and within walking distance of the headquarters for the ISI intelligence service.
Leadership: The leader of the Lal Masjid at the time of its founding was Maulana Muhammad Abdullah, an outspoken cleric who supported the U.S.-sponsored rebellion against Soviet troops in Afghanistan during the 1980s. Maulana Abdullah was assassinated inside the mosque compound in the late 1990s. His two sons, Maulana Abdul Aziz and Abdul Rashid Ghazi, then took over leadership of the mosque in 1998.
History: The Lal Masjid was founded in 1965, and was a religious and political center for the city's elite and government officials. The mosque was rumored to have been organized and supported by the ISI intelligence service.
During the 1980s, the mosque helped recruit fighters for the Afghan rebellion against Soviet rule. In recent years, the mosque administration has called for Islamic law (sharia) to be imposed in Islamabad. The mosque leadership strongly criticized President Musharraf's decision to join the U.S. in its post-9/11 "war on terror," and killing of Muslims.
Conflict: The Lal Masjid administration and students have been in an escalating conflict with government authorities since January 2007. Government officials accuse the mosque leadership of organizing a vigilante "vice-squad" which has conducted raids against brothels and internet cafes, and kidnappings of police officers and suspected prostitutes. In April 2007, the mosque administration set up its own Islamic court in violation of government sanctions. The conflict came to a head in July 2007 with a standoff between police forces and students and mosque leaders who barricaded themselves inside the mosque compound.
The actual casualty figure still cannot be independently verified. According to some reports, Abdul Sattar Edhi was asked by the government to arrange for as much as four hundred burial shrouds. According to the latest government accounts, no hostages were found inside the mosque premises contradicting its own intelligence reports that women and children were being held against their will. Also, there are numerous accounts of witnesses seeing the mosque compound littered with hundreds of bodies. The media personnel were invited to witness the burials of large number of deceased from the Red Mosque. According to them, many coffins contained multiple severed limbs and it was hard to judge if only one victim was being buried in each coffin.
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Operation Silence Introduction
Operation Silence lead by Lt. Col Haroon-ul-Islam
Number of security and army personal take part = 13000
Number of Lal Masjid Mujahidin -= 300 aprox
Number of Students (Male + Female ) = 3000
Number of Army men killed = 200
Number of Lal Masjid Mujahidin Martyred = 300
Number of Lal Masjid Students Martyred = More then 2000
Number of citizens Martyred = aprox 100
Ammunition Used by Pakistan Army = All kinds of ammunition except the atom bomb
Ammunition Used by the Mujahidin = Pistols and Kalashnikov's
Reason for the battle : The Scholars and students of Lal Masjid wanted to establish a Sharia Law and end the numerous brothels in Islamabad, they wanted to end corruption in Islamabad. Also they wanted Sharia courts in Islamabad.
Pakistan Govt doesnt want Islamic law they want to give full freedom to prostitutes and allow corruption to spread..........
These are the reasons so many people in Lal Masjid have been martyred for.
On 3rd July Rangers wanted to seal off the gate of Lal Masjid when the students tried to stop them the rangers opened fire on them. In the firing a lot of innocent people were killed. In reply to this the students of Lal Masjid had no choice but to return fire. Environment Ministry building was set on fire also.
On 4th July the students and mujahideen were sieged inside for the first time the capital was under military curfew. Orders were given by the government to even shoot any reporters spotted in the area.
Mualana Abdul Aziz was lured out by the secret agencies in a burka, telling they will fully support him. As a result Maulana Abdul Aziz was arrested in a burka. On PTV all scholars and Islam was Insulted openely.
The secret agencies thought by arresting Maulana abdul aziz in this way they can persuade the students and mujahideen to surrender. It was proven this tactic didn’t work and the students and mujahideen were besieged inside Lal Masjid for 8 days.
Approximately 1700 students surrendered willingly from Lal Masjid but they were arrested and are still in custody.
So called Operation silence leader Lt Col Haroon was killed by the mujahideen. Also another 100 soldiers were killed.
Last day of the operation.
Ghazi Abdul Rasheed agreed to surrender but Musharaf ordered that Ghazi Abdul Rasheed and all the students be killed.
On 10 th July the Army Commandos martyred over a 1000 Students ( Male + Female ), and 300 Mujahidin were martyred in the cross fire.
Lal Masjid's militants commander Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was martyred the same day.
Pakistan Government claimed that there are foreign terrorists inside Lal Masjid. After the operation was over the government was unable to prove this claim of foreigners.
Lal Masjid and Madrasa Hafsa have both suffered a lot of damage. Now the government is planning to build a shopping complex or a restaurant in its place. They are in the middle of deciding yet.
All this raises the following questions...
1. Were the mujahideen of Lal masjid wrong? What was wrong if they were trying to establish an Islamic way of life in Pakistan?
2. They were trying to liberate the government from being a puppet to the USA, was this wrong?
3. Lal Masjid is only half a kilometer away from the headquarters of ISI..... How was ammunition delivered there?
4. Government claimed there are major terrorists inside.......where are those terrorists now?
5. The latest ammunition that the Pakistani govt claimed the militants have.........Where is such latest weaponry now?
6. Why are they hiding the bodies of the martyrs from Lal masjid.........?
Even if we agree that the mujahideen of Lal Masjid were wrong, there still remains the following questions.
1. Why were the students martyred for? Why did the government issue a shoot to kill order upon anyone leaving the Masjid?
2. If they were planning to martyr the students of the Masjid then why the charade, why not do it from day one?
3. When negotiations were taking why did the President still order the murder of the students?
4. Do Pakistani parents have to go through the process of enrollment, just to provide their children with an Islamic education?
These are such questions that our terrorist government can never answer.
In all this the loss is of people who want to elevate the status of Islam. The government controlled media is trying very hard to prove to the world these are terrorists not mujahideen, the public isnt stupid to fall for their lies.
Even today Ghazi Abdul Rasheed is a Hero in the eyes of the nation.. Pakistani nation really hate the Army and govt openely. In reaction to all this in Swat and malakand soldiers are being murdered daily.....
President Musharaf was hated by a minority before.. but after this operation the entire nation, politicians, religious parties, scholars are now all enemies of the President. The time is not far when the President will die a death of a dog. (Inshallah)
Over a 1000 students that have been martyred.........they were someones loved ones........ they were someones brothers and sisters, someones sons and daughters........... Their parents will never forgive their murderers.................
This incident in no way is less than the battle of Karbala............
Pakistan Army and Government played the role of Yazeed and his army........... but they dont know that...
Killers of Hussain are in fact the death of Yazeed
Islam grows stronger after every karbala
May Allah bless the martyrs of Lal Masjid with janat ul firdos and guide the muslims of Pakistan that they continue the work the martyrs of Lal Masjid started...............
Dear friends the reasons I have strongly expressed my emotions because the whole nation is mourning the martyrs of Lal Masjid...Out of them I am one of them........
The injustice crosses all bounds that for the murder of students of Lal Masjid the Soldiers will be awarded for bravery on the 14th of August...
Source: http://www.stringerz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=737
Operation Silence Introduction
Operation Silence lead by Lt. Col Haroon-ul-Islam
Number of security and army personal take part = 13000
Number of Lal Masjid Mujahidin -= 300 aprox
Number of Students (Male + Female ) = 3000
Number of Army men killed = 200
Number of Lal Masjid Mujahidin Martyred = 300
Number of Lal Masjid Students Martyred = More then 2000
Number of citizens Martyred = aprox 100
Ammunition Used by Pakistan Army = All kinds of ammunition except the atom bomb
Ammunition Used by the Mujahidin = Pistols and Kalashnikov's
Reason for the battle : The Scholars and students of Lal Masjid wanted to establish a Sharia Law and end the numerous brothels in Islamabad, they wanted to end corruption in Islamabad. Also they wanted Sharia courts in Islamabad.
Pakistan Govt doesnt want Islamic law they want to give full freedom to prostitutes and allow corruption to spread..........
These are the reasons so many people in Lal Masjid have been martyred for.
On 3rd July Rangers wanted to seal off the gate of Lal Masjid when the students tried to stop them the rangers opened fire on them. In the firing a lot of innocent people were killed. In reply to this the students of Lal Masjid had no choice but to return fire. Environment Ministry building was set on fire also.
On 4th July the students and mujahideen were sieged inside for the first time the capital was under military curfew. Orders were given by the government to even shoot any reporters spotted in the area.
Mualana Abdul Aziz was lured out by the secret agencies in a burka, telling they will fully support him. As a result Maulana Abdul Aziz was arrested in a burka. On PTV all scholars and Islam was Insulted openely.
The secret agencies thought by arresting Maulana abdul aziz in this way they can persuade the students and mujahideen to surrender. It was proven this tactic didn’t work and the students and mujahideen were besieged inside Lal Masjid for 8 days.
Approximately 1700 students surrendered willingly from Lal Masjid but they were arrested and are still in custody.
So called Operation silence leader Lt Col Haroon was killed by the mujahideen. Also another 100 soldiers were killed.
Last day of the operation.
Ghazi Abdul Rasheed agreed to surrender but Musharaf ordered that Ghazi Abdul Rasheed and all the students be killed.
On 10 th July the Army Commandos martyred over a 1000 Students ( Male + Female ), and 300 Mujahidin were martyred in the cross fire.
Lal Masjid's militants commander Ghazi Abdul Rasheed was martyred the same day.
Pakistan Government claimed that there are foreign terrorists inside Lal Masjid. After the operation was over the government was unable to prove this claim of foreigners.
Lal Masjid and Madrasa Hafsa have both suffered a lot of damage. Now the government is planning to build a shopping complex or a restaurant in its place. They are in the middle of deciding yet.
All this raises the following questions...
1. Were the mujahideen of Lal masjid wrong? What was wrong if they were trying to establish an Islamic way of life in Pakistan?
2. They were trying to liberate the government from being a puppet to the USA, was this wrong?
3. Lal Masjid is only half a kilometer away from the headquarters of ISI..... How was ammunition delivered there?
4. Government claimed there are major terrorists inside.......where are those terrorists now?
5. The latest ammunition that the Pakistani govt claimed the militants have.........Where is such latest weaponry now?
6. Why are they hiding the bodies of the martyrs from Lal masjid.........?
Even if we agree that the mujahideen of Lal Masjid were wrong, there still remains the following questions.
1. Why were the students martyred for? Why did the government issue a shoot to kill order upon anyone leaving the Masjid?
2. If they were planning to martyr the students of the Masjid then why the charade, why not do it from day one?
3. When negotiations were taking why did the President still order the murder of the students?
4. Do Pakistani parents have to go through the process of enrollment, just to provide their children with an Islamic education?
These are such questions that our terrorist government can never answer.
In all this the loss is of people who want to elevate the status of Islam. The government controlled media is trying very hard to prove to the world these are terrorists not mujahideen, the public isnt stupid to fall for their lies.
Even today Ghazi Abdul Rasheed is a Hero in the eyes of the nation.. Pakistani nation really hate the Army and govt openely. In reaction to all this in Swat and malakand soldiers are being murdered daily.....
President Musharaf was hated by a minority before.. but after this operation the entire nation, politicians, religious parties, scholars are now all enemies of the President. The time is not far when the President will die a death of a dog. (Inshallah)
Over a 1000 students that have been martyred.........they were someones loved ones........ they were someones brothers and sisters, someones sons and daughters........... Their parents will never forgive their murderers.................
This incident in no way is less than the battle of Karbala............
Pakistan Army and Government played the role of Yazeed and his army........... but they dont know that...
Killers of Hussain are in fact the death of Yazeed
Islam grows stronger after every karbala
May Allah bless the martyrs of Lal Masjid with janat ul firdos and guide the muslims of Pakistan that they continue the work the martyrs of Lal Masjid started...............
Dear friends the reasons I have strongly expressed my emotions because the whole nation is mourning the martyrs of Lal Masjid...Out of them I am one of them........
The injustice crosses all bounds that for the murder of students of Lal Masjid the Soldiers will be awarded for bravery on the 14th of August...
Source: http://www.stringerz.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=737
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Open Letter to Supreme Court Regarding Lal Masjid
Dear Honorable Justices Faqir Muahmmad Khokhar & Nawaz Abbasi:
Assalamo Alaikum
We thank you for your bold, honest and courageous action to take notice of the grave and grim situation of Lal Masjid. I would like to submit following points for bench’s kind considerations.
1. It is not difficult to arrest any Imam from any Masjid. Masajid are open public place and no body is denied access. Especially in Fajar Salah there are usually handful people. If the government wanted, instead of sending rangers and police, it could have cooled the situation and then one day could have sent 50 policemen in plain clothes who could have taken both brothers without much effort. After all the Government has abducted numerous people from their houses which are not even public places. The Government’s secret agencies have beaten journalists through its plain clothed intelligence people.
2. It seems that Government wanted this bloodshed. It started the entire affair with demolition of several mosques. It knew that there will be violent reaction. When right in the center of Islamabad Mac’Donald of Bilal Musharraf can be built on expense of public healthy recreation activity site, why the government is bent to demolish Masajid?
3. The Government arrested several people who were trying hard to bring peace. This includes MNA of Islamabad Mian Aslam, Syed Bial and Khwaja Sahib.
4. Under these circumstances when Mr. Pervaiz seems to create bloodshed and defame Islam and Muslims, it would not be surprising that Lt. Con. Haroon was shot dead by the secret agencies themselves.
5. Mr. Pervaiz who himself has violated the writ of constitution and all laws including those of Military, does not look nice to talk about writ of law etc.
6. Mr. Pervaiz knew well that such attack on Lal Masjid will bring violent response which would jeopardize the lives and business of our Chinese friends. As there are conflicts between interests of Bush and China , it could be a deliberate attempt of Mr. Pervaiz to please America .
7. We know that in case of Nursing conflict in PIMS, the female students of Lal Masjid were exploited and were given false alarm; it is quite possible that some secret female agents may be present in Black Burqah, and/or the students including female students might have been trapped by secret agencies.
8. I request you to kindly determine the extent of responsibility of bloodshed through acts of omission and commission and punish all parties including Mr. Pervaiz, Agencies, clergies and the Interior Ministry officials.
9. I request you to determine that whether Brothel houses and Massage Parlors are allowed in Pakistan per se. If not then the concerned authorities should be taken to the task for negligence in application of the law.
10. I request you to kindly order to all members of the conflict to not fire or attack anyone till the Supreme Court’s further decision. Ghazi Rashid may be taken in the custody of Supreme Court till further orders and all other female and males students be released with their names and address so that in case of need they can be summoned to the court.
I again thank you as your prompt action may save numerous precious lives. I offer my humble help and support to you in this case and also for improvement of Madrissah throughout country as I believe that like other educational institutions the Madrissah system require a lot of reforms in light of Islam. Instead of ignorant clergy, it should be producing high quality scientists etc with good and in depth knowledge of Islam.
With Most Cordial Regards,
Sincerely yours,
Prof. (Dr.) Anwar Ul Haque
Chief Consultant Pathologist
116. St. 49 F 11/3 Islamabad 44000
Pakistan .
Office Phone 9260189
Residential phone: 2294099, 2293707
Mobile phone: 03335129849
Source
Open Letter to Supreme Court Regarding Lal Masjid
Dear Honorable Justices Faqir Muahmmad Khokhar & Nawaz Abbasi:
Assalamo Alaikum
We thank you for your bold, honest and courageous action to take notice of the grave and grim situation of Lal Masjid. I would like to submit following points for bench’s kind considerations.
1. It is not difficult to arrest any Imam from any Masjid. Masajid are open public place and no body is denied access. Especially in Fajar Salah there are usually handful people. If the government wanted, instead of sending rangers and police, it could have cooled the situation and then one day could have sent 50 policemen in plain clothes who could have taken both brothers without much effort. After all the Government has abducted numerous people from their houses which are not even public places. The Government’s secret agencies have beaten journalists through its plain clothed intelligence people.
2. It seems that Government wanted this bloodshed. It started the entire affair with demolition of several mosques. It knew that there will be violent reaction. When right in the center of Islamabad Mac’Donald of Bilal Musharraf can be built on expense of public healthy recreation activity site, why the government is bent to demolish Masajid?
3. The Government arrested several people who were trying hard to bring peace. This includes MNA of Islamabad Mian Aslam, Syed Bial and Khwaja Sahib.
4. Under these circumstances when Mr. Pervaiz seems to create bloodshed and defame Islam and Muslims, it would not be surprising that Lt. Con. Haroon was shot dead by the secret agencies themselves.
5. Mr. Pervaiz who himself has violated the writ of constitution and all laws including those of Military, does not look nice to talk about writ of law etc.
6. Mr. Pervaiz knew well that such attack on Lal Masjid will bring violent response which would jeopardize the lives and business of our Chinese friends. As there are conflicts between interests of Bush and China , it could be a deliberate attempt of Mr. Pervaiz to please America .
7. We know that in case of Nursing conflict in PIMS, the female students of Lal Masjid were exploited and were given false alarm; it is quite possible that some secret female agents may be present in Black Burqah, and/or the students including female students might have been trapped by secret agencies.
8. I request you to kindly determine the extent of responsibility of bloodshed through acts of omission and commission and punish all parties including Mr. Pervaiz, Agencies, clergies and the Interior Ministry officials.
9. I request you to determine that whether Brothel houses and Massage Parlors are allowed in Pakistan per se. If not then the concerned authorities should be taken to the task for negligence in application of the law.
10. I request you to kindly order to all members of the conflict to not fire or attack anyone till the Supreme Court’s further decision. Ghazi Rashid may be taken in the custody of Supreme Court till further orders and all other female and males students be released with their names and address so that in case of need they can be summoned to the court.
I again thank you as your prompt action may save numerous precious lives. I offer my humble help and support to you in this case and also for improvement of Madrissah throughout country as I believe that like other educational institutions the Madrissah system require a lot of reforms in light of Islam. Instead of ignorant clergy, it should be producing high quality scientists etc with good and in depth knowledge of Islam.
With Most Cordial Regards,
Sincerely yours,
Prof. (Dr.) Anwar Ul Haque
Chief Consultant Pathologist
116. St. 49 F 11/3 Islamabad 44000
Pakistan .
Office Phone 9260189
Residential phone: 2294099, 2293707
Mobile phone: 03335129849
Source
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
US, China brace for Lal Masjid backlash
11 Jul 2007, 1018 hrs IST
,
Chidanand Rajghatta
,
TNN
[FONT=Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif] WASHINGTON: The United States and China are bracing for a backlash from Islamic extremists after supporting the Pakistani military’s attack on the Lal Masjid complex in Islamabad that killed militant leader Abdul Rashid Ghazi and an unspecified number of fundamentalists. [/FONT]
The warning came even as the State Department publicly backed the Musharraf regime’s crackdown on Lal Masjid resulting in a bloody carnage.
''Of course, everybody wants to see these kinds of situations resolved peacefully. It's everybody's optimal solution. But it is fundamentally a matter for the government to decide when negotiations end and when action needs to take place to bring some sort of resolution to the situation,'' State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack said on Tuesday even as reports of a carnage trickled out.
Bush himself came out in support of Musharraf at a town hall meeting in Cleveland, without referring directly to the Lal Masjid carnage. ''I like him and I appreciate him,'' Bush said of Musharraf, calling him a ''a strong ally in the war against these extremists.''
''I am, of course, constantly working with him to make sure that democracy continues to advance in Pakistan,'' Bush added.
Echoing the administration’s support for the military action, McCormack said the Lal Masjid inmates had any number of opportunities to resolve the situation peacefully, ''yet they persisted and they persisted to the point of using children as human shields.''
Meanwhile, China too has asked its nationals in Pakistan to remain vigilant after terrorists killed three Chinese workers on the outskirts of Peshawar in the middle of the Lal Masjid siege.
The killing followed the military siege of Lal Masjid, which in turn was precipitated by some fundamentalist inmates kidnapping seven Chinese workers who they said worked in sex shops fronting as massage parlours.
The incident, and the subsequent massacre of Chinese workers in addition to past killings of Chinese citizens, is threatening to jeopardize ties between Beijing and Islamabad which are often described in hyperbolic terms like ''higher than mountains and deeper than oceans.''
On Tuesday, Beijing sternly urged Pakistan to follow up on the killing of Chinese workers ''seek the truth, punish the criminals, and to effectively strengthen the protection of Chinese citizens.''
Meanwhile, the week-long stand-off that ended in a massacre on Tuesday attracted little attention in the US, where focus is more on the debate over a pullout from Iraq.
In fact, a news channel on Tuesday cut into a story on Lal Masjid to bring breaking news of a small airplane crash in Florida.
Discussion and debate has been more vigorous in the print media and the online world, where there is little sympathy for General Musharraf’s ''Massacre at the Mosque'' as bloggers have dubbed it.
Most analysts believe the crisis was engineered by the General himself to deflect attention from the ongoing judicial spat and question the manner in which the situation was allowed to aggravate for several months in the heart of Islamabad.
US newspapers and think tanks have been scathing in their indictment of Musharraf misrule which many say is responsible for the rise in Islamic extremism, contrary to the administration’s line that General is a bulwark against fundamentalism.
''Pervez Musharraf’s misrule of Pakistan during the past eight years is finally catching up with him,'' the Washington Post remarked tartly in an editorial, ironically headlined ' The General Under Siege . It noted that the General “is running out of supporters except in Washington.''
On Tuesday, the respected Carnegie Endowment for International Peace released a report that called for a US rethink on its Pakistan policy, saying ''Pakistan’s military rule only provides false sense of security, and western support for the military only reinforced regional instability.''
Pakistan’s military is complicit in the worsening security situation in Afghanistan-including the resurgence of the Taliban, terrorism in Kashmir, and the growth of jihadi extremism and capabilities, the report said, in a stunning rebuke to the Bush administration’s policies and prescriptions.
Source
US, China brace for Lal Masjid backlash
11 Jul 2007, 1018 hrs IST
The warning came even as the State Department publicly backed the Musharraf regime’s crackdown on Lal Masjid resulting in a bloody carnage.
''Of course, everybody wants to see these kinds of situations resolved peacefully. It's everybody's optimal solution. But it is fundamentally a matter for the government to decide when negotiations end and when action needs to take place to bring some sort of resolution to the situation,'' State Department Spokesman Sean McCormack said on Tuesday even as reports of a carnage trickled out.
Bush himself came out in support of Musharraf at a town hall meeting in Cleveland, without referring directly to the Lal Masjid carnage. ''I like him and I appreciate him,'' Bush said of Musharraf, calling him a ''a strong ally in the war against these extremists.''
''I am, of course, constantly working with him to make sure that democracy continues to advance in Pakistan,'' Bush added.
Echoing the administration’s support for the military action, McCormack said the Lal Masjid inmates had any number of opportunities to resolve the situation peacefully, ''yet they persisted and they persisted to the point of using children as human shields.''
Meanwhile, China too has asked its nationals in Pakistan to remain vigilant after terrorists killed three Chinese workers on the outskirts of Peshawar in the middle of the Lal Masjid siege.
The killing followed the military siege of Lal Masjid, which in turn was precipitated by some fundamentalist inmates kidnapping seven Chinese workers who they said worked in sex shops fronting as massage parlours.
The incident, and the subsequent massacre of Chinese workers in addition to past killings of Chinese citizens, is threatening to jeopardize ties between Beijing and Islamabad which are often described in hyperbolic terms like ''higher than mountains and deeper than oceans.''
On Tuesday, Beijing sternly urged Pakistan to follow up on the killing of Chinese workers ''seek the truth, punish the criminals, and to effectively strengthen the protection of Chinese citizens.''
Meanwhile, the week-long stand-off that ended in a massacre on Tuesday attracted little attention in the US, where focus is more on the debate over a pullout from Iraq.
In fact, a news channel on Tuesday cut into a story on Lal Masjid to bring breaking news of a small airplane crash in Florida.
Discussion and debate has been more vigorous in the print media and the online world, where there is little sympathy for General Musharraf’s ''Massacre at the Mosque'' as bloggers have dubbed it.
Most analysts believe the crisis was engineered by the General himself to deflect attention from the ongoing judicial spat and question the manner in which the situation was allowed to aggravate for several months in the heart of Islamabad.
US newspapers and think tanks have been scathing in their indictment of Musharraf misrule which many say is responsible for the rise in Islamic extremism, contrary to the administration’s line that General is a bulwark against fundamentalism.
''Pervez Musharraf’s misrule of Pakistan during the past eight years is finally catching up with him,'' the Washington Post remarked tartly in an editorial, ironically headlined ' The General Under Siege . It noted that the General “is running out of supporters except in Washington.''
On Tuesday, the respected Carnegie Endowment for International Peace released a report that called for a US rethink on its Pakistan policy, saying ''Pakistan’s military rule only provides false sense of security, and western support for the military only reinforced regional instability.''
Pakistan’s military is complicit in the worsening security situation in Afghanistan-including the resurgence of the Taliban, terrorism in Kashmir, and the growth of jihadi extremism and capabilities, the report said, in a stunning rebuke to the Bush administration’s policies and prescriptions.
Source
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Operation toll over 400, up to 1,000, say MMA leaders
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, July 12: Leaders of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal on Thursday disputed the government’s claims about the number of deaths in the Lal Masjid operation, and said that more than 400 and up to 1,000 people had been killed in the mosque-madressah complex.
They, however, did not cite any credible source to corroborate their claim.
Addressing a news conference soon after their return from London, the alliance’s president Qazi Hussain Ahmed and secretary-general Maulana Fazlur Rahman condemned the operation and called it ‘a shameful military adventure’ and said they would thwart conspiracies against other seminaries.
Qazi Hussain Ahmed said: “We intend to move the Supreme Court, urging it to set up a judicial inquiry commission to gather details about the sham operation.”
He claimed that troops had placed two to four bodies in each coffin without gender discrimination and buried them.
He insisted that those taking part in the attack on Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa could not be called martyrs as, according to him, they had been killed while implementing the American agenda.
Calling upon President Musharraf to step down to save the country from plunging into anarchy, he said that deliberate attempts were being made to pitch the masses against the armed forces.
He said that protest rallies and ulema conventions would be held on July 15, 16 and 19 in Islamabad, July 26 in Peshawar, July 28 in Muzaffarabad,
Aug 2 in Karachi and Aug 9 in Quetta.
Maulana Fazlur Rahman rejected the proposal to demolish Jamia Hafsa, and said: “We will protect all madressahs and will not allow Jamia Hafsa to be moved from its present location”. He urged President Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to stop threatening madressahs.
Referring to the arms and ammunition displayed in the mosque-madressah complex, the Maulana said the fight could have dragged on several weeks if there really was such a large stockpile of arms and ammunition.
Urging the government to hand over bodies to their legal heirs, he said that the government had deliberately allowed the situation to deteriorate over the past six months and intelligence agencies should be held accountable for the situation.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat6.htm
Operation toll over 400, up to 1,000, say MMA leaders
By Our Staff Reporter
ISLAMABAD, July 12: Leaders of the Muttahida Majlis-i-Amal on Thursday disputed the government’s claims about the number of deaths in the Lal Masjid operation, and said that more than 400 and up to 1,000 people had been killed in the mosque-madressah complex.
They, however, did not cite any credible source to corroborate their claim.
Addressing a news conference soon after their return from London, the alliance’s president Qazi Hussain Ahmed and secretary-general Maulana Fazlur Rahman condemned the operation and called it ‘a shameful military adventure’ and said they would thwart conspiracies against other seminaries.
Qazi Hussain Ahmed said: “We intend to move the Supreme Court, urging it to set up a judicial inquiry commission to gather details about the sham operation.”
He claimed that troops had placed two to four bodies in each coffin without gender discrimination and buried them.
He insisted that those taking part in the attack on Lal Masjid and Jamia Hafsa could not be called martyrs as, according to him, they had been killed while implementing the American agenda.
Calling upon President Musharraf to step down to save the country from plunging into anarchy, he said that deliberate attempts were being made to pitch the masses against the armed forces.
He said that protest rallies and ulema conventions would be held on July 15, 16 and 19 in Islamabad, July 26 in Peshawar, July 28 in Muzaffarabad,
Aug 2 in Karachi and Aug 9 in Quetta.
Maulana Fazlur Rahman rejected the proposal to demolish Jamia Hafsa, and said: “We will protect all madressahs and will not allow Jamia Hafsa to be moved from its present location”. He urged President Musharraf and Prime Minister Shaukat Aziz to stop threatening madressahs.
Referring to the arms and ammunition displayed in the mosque-madressah complex, the Maulana said the fight could have dragged on several weeks if there really was such a large stockpile of arms and ammunition.
Urging the government to hand over bodies to their legal heirs, he said that the government had deliberately allowed the situation to deteriorate over the past six months and intelligence agencies should be held accountable for the situation.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat6.htm
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Calls for a probe into operation get louder: Lawyers’ strike tomorrow
By Our Staff Reporter
LAHORE, July 12: The Lahore High Court Bar Association has demanded a judicial inquiry into the Lal Masjid episode. A resolution adopted by a general house of the bar demanded that the proposed judicial commission should comprise judges of the Supreme Court for ascertaining that how weapons were smuggled into the mosque, who were the suppliers, and what was the number of innocent male and female students who died in the army operation.
The resolution said the government should also be asked to identify all such mosques and seminaries where weapons were being stored so that secret agencies could not enact another such drama in future.
The meeting also offered Fateha for the innocent students killed in the operation.
Earlier, advocates Asma Jehangir, Mian Hanif Tahir, Hafiz Abdur Rahman Ansari, Lateef Sara and LHCBA president Ahsan Bhun spoke to the house.
They said the Musharraf regime used gunship helicopters, tanks and commandos to give impression to the world that the country was facing terrorists and thus the dispensation could prolong its rule.
According to them, an accused was given the right to defence in a court of law in civilized societies but in Islamabad hundreds of people were gunned down in a show of `state terrorism’.
They said first Gen Ziaul Haq had held the masses hostage for 11 years in the name of Islam and now Gen Musharraf was prolonging his rule in the name of moderation.
They said the lawyers’ drive would continue until independence of judiciary, elimination of the dictatorship and transfer of power to real representatives of the masses through a transparent, fair and peaceful election process.
STRIKE: The lawyers’ community will boycott court proceedings for the entire day on Saturday in Punjab.
A decision to this effect was taken in a meeting of the Punjab Bar Council on Thursday.
The boycott is aimed at protesting damage to 3,000 copies of the Holy Quran in Lal Masjid during the army operation, failure of the government to bury the dead according to Islamic norms, non-cooperation of the government with heirs of the seminary students whose names could not be found in official lists, barring the media from covering the operation.
The strike is also aimed at registering protest at the deteriorated law and order situation as kidnapped civil judge Malik Sanaullah was got released by his family after offering Rs4 million ransom to the kidnappers.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat19.htm
Calls for a probe into operation get louder: Lawyers’ strike tomorrow
By Our Staff Reporter
LAHORE, July 12: The Lahore High Court Bar Association has demanded a judicial inquiry into the Lal Masjid episode. A resolution adopted by a general house of the bar demanded that the proposed judicial commission should comprise judges of the Supreme Court for ascertaining that how weapons were smuggled into the mosque, who were the suppliers, and what was the number of innocent male and female students who died in the army operation.
The resolution said the government should also be asked to identify all such mosques and seminaries where weapons were being stored so that secret agencies could not enact another such drama in future.
The meeting also offered Fateha for the innocent students killed in the operation.
Earlier, advocates Asma Jehangir, Mian Hanif Tahir, Hafiz Abdur Rahman Ansari, Lateef Sara and LHCBA president Ahsan Bhun spoke to the house.
They said the Musharraf regime used gunship helicopters, tanks and commandos to give impression to the world that the country was facing terrorists and thus the dispensation could prolong its rule.
According to them, an accused was given the right to defence in a court of law in civilized societies but in Islamabad hundreds of people were gunned down in a show of `state terrorism’.
They said first Gen Ziaul Haq had held the masses hostage for 11 years in the name of Islam and now Gen Musharraf was prolonging his rule in the name of moderation.
They said the lawyers’ drive would continue until independence of judiciary, elimination of the dictatorship and transfer of power to real representatives of the masses through a transparent, fair and peaceful election process.
STRIKE: The lawyers’ community will boycott court proceedings for the entire day on Saturday in Punjab.
A decision to this effect was taken in a meeting of the Punjab Bar Council on Thursday.
The boycott is aimed at protesting damage to 3,000 copies of the Holy Quran in Lal Masjid during the army operation, failure of the government to bury the dead according to Islamic norms, non-cooperation of the government with heirs of the seminary students whose names could not be found in official lists, barring the media from covering the operation.
The strike is also aimed at registering protest at the deteriorated law and order situation as kidnapped civil judge Malik Sanaullah was got released by his family after offering Rs4 million ransom to the kidnappers.
http://www.dawn.com/2007/07/13/nat19.htm
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Mufti Usmanis view
Gov'ts attempt on covering the Facts...
Mufti Sahab's statement clearly proves that the Govt. intention was to launch the operation.
Now the Govt. is calling the Eminent Muti a liar.
The eminent scholars have clearly said in a new conference that the deal was done but the it was changed in the president house.
Now the govt. is saying that is not true so that means that the scholars are liars.
Pakistan people are not fooled.
Mufti Usmanis view
Gov'ts attempt on covering the Facts...
Mufti Sahab's statement clearly proves that the Govt. intention was to launch the operation.
Now the Govt. is calling the Eminent Muti a liar.
The eminent scholars have clearly said in a new conference that the deal was done but the it was changed in the president house.
Now the govt. is saying that is not true so that means that the scholars are liars.
Pakistan people are not fooled.
Last edited:
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
ISLAMABAD: The government’s repeated claims that late Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi had laid mines and held women and children hostage to use them as a “human shield” turned out to be mere “misreporting” of intelligence informers.
The reports of suicide bombers, reported to be present inside the Lal-Masjid-Jamia Hafsa complex, also turned out to be baseless. Sources said that during the bloody military operation, no landmines or hostages were found in the complex.
A source said that after finding out the real story, the authorities themselves felt embarrassed as to how to confront the media, both national and international, which was fed earlier with baseless intelligence reports.
However, the government’s strict decision not to allow the media to go even near the “battlefield” has successfully helped the authorities to cover up the intelligence agencies’ misreporting so far.
Major General Waheed Arshad, Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), confirmed that no “suicide bombing” incident occurred during the operation. He also did not confirm that troops had found even a single mine laid inside the complex, although, he said that the combing operation was in progress.
Late Ghazi repeatedly requested that the media should be allowed to visit the complex to see by itself the situation but the authorities did not permit even the parliamentarians, the Ulema and the government representatives, including Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, to enter the complex apprehending that they would be made hostages.
None of the 27 women “rescued” by the authorities on Tuesday in the middle of the operation confirmed to have been held hostage or used as a human shield. Instead, reports revealed that these women were begging to the authorities to send them back to the Jamia Hafsa as they wanted to embrace ‘martyrdom’.
When they heard of the news of the death of Maulana Ghazi, they burst into tears. Federal Minister for Religious Affairs Ejazul Haq, when confronted on the issue, told The News that the women, who were held hostage, did not actually know that they were being used as “human shield”. About the reaction of women “rescued” from the complex, he said, “They have been brainwashed.”
When asked that usually those held hostage or used as a “human shield” fell victim to a commando action but in this case no hostage was even hurt, the minister said that the operation was conducted with extreme care and to ensure minimum-possible collateral damage.
Secretary General Wafaqul Madaris Maulana Hanif Jalandhari, when asked if he had any knowledge of the reports of women and children being used as hostage, said “that was all government propaganda.”
Jalandhari was included in the Ulema team that had made a last-ditch effort for a negotiated settlement of the Lal Masjid crisis but could not succeed after the Presidency changed the draft agreement.
He said that he was even contacted by parents of three female students of the Jamia Hafsa, who said that these students, despite repeated requests, were not willing to go home. On the question of “hostages”, Waheed Arshad told The News that if the women and children were not held as hostage, they should have come out of the complex on their own accord. He said that 27 women were “rescued” but he did not know how these women had reacted as reported by some newspapers.
When asked how the women who were held “hostage” and used as “human shields” were rescued unhurt, the military spokesman explained that the militants “guarding” the rescued women were first killed that led to their “rescue”.
Absar Alam, senior journalist and Bureau Chief of Geo News in Islamabad, whose team covered the moment-to-moment events of the Lal Masjid since July 3, said that there was no confirmation from any independent source of the government’s recent claims that the militants inside had held women and children as hostage, laid mines or prepared suicide jackets.
Alam said that till Wednesday evening, the media had no access to the Lal Masjid Complex, enabling the government to give its choice information to the press. For most of the stories, he said, the reporters were either dependent on the government or the militants who were holed up in the complex.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8972
ISLAMABAD: The government’s repeated claims that late Maulana Abdul Rashid Ghazi had laid mines and held women and children hostage to use them as a “human shield” turned out to be mere “misreporting” of intelligence informers.
The reports of suicide bombers, reported to be present inside the Lal-Masjid-Jamia Hafsa complex, also turned out to be baseless. Sources said that during the bloody military operation, no landmines or hostages were found in the complex.
A source said that after finding out the real story, the authorities themselves felt embarrassed as to how to confront the media, both national and international, which was fed earlier with baseless intelligence reports.
However, the government’s strict decision not to allow the media to go even near the “battlefield” has successfully helped the authorities to cover up the intelligence agencies’ misreporting so far.
Major General Waheed Arshad, Director General Inter-Services Public Relations (ISPR), confirmed that no “suicide bombing” incident occurred during the operation. He also did not confirm that troops had found even a single mine laid inside the complex, although, he said that the combing operation was in progress.
Late Ghazi repeatedly requested that the media should be allowed to visit the complex to see by itself the situation but the authorities did not permit even the parliamentarians, the Ulema and the government representatives, including Chaudhry Shujaat Hussain, to enter the complex apprehending that they would be made hostages.
None of the 27 women “rescued” by the authorities on Tuesday in the middle of the operation confirmed to have been held hostage or used as a human shield. Instead, reports revealed that these women were begging to the authorities to send them back to the Jamia Hafsa as they wanted to embrace ‘martyrdom’.
When they heard of the news of the death of Maulana Ghazi, they burst into tears. Federal Minister for Religious Affairs Ejazul Haq, when confronted on the issue, told The News that the women, who were held hostage, did not actually know that they were being used as “human shield”. About the reaction of women “rescued” from the complex, he said, “They have been brainwashed.”
When asked that usually those held hostage or used as a “human shield” fell victim to a commando action but in this case no hostage was even hurt, the minister said that the operation was conducted with extreme care and to ensure minimum-possible collateral damage.
Secretary General Wafaqul Madaris Maulana Hanif Jalandhari, when asked if he had any knowledge of the reports of women and children being used as hostage, said “that was all government propaganda.”
Jalandhari was included in the Ulema team that had made a last-ditch effort for a negotiated settlement of the Lal Masjid crisis but could not succeed after the Presidency changed the draft agreement.
He said that he was even contacted by parents of three female students of the Jamia Hafsa, who said that these students, despite repeated requests, were not willing to go home. On the question of “hostages”, Waheed Arshad told The News that if the women and children were not held as hostage, they should have come out of the complex on their own accord. He said that 27 women were “rescued” but he did not know how these women had reacted as reported by some newspapers.
When asked how the women who were held “hostage” and used as “human shields” were rescued unhurt, the military spokesman explained that the militants “guarding” the rescued women were first killed that led to their “rescue”.
Absar Alam, senior journalist and Bureau Chief of Geo News in Islamabad, whose team covered the moment-to-moment events of the Lal Masjid since July 3, said that there was no confirmation from any independent source of the government’s recent claims that the militants inside had held women and children as hostage, laid mines or prepared suicide jackets.
Alam said that till Wednesday evening, the media had no access to the Lal Masjid Complex, enabling the government to give its choice information to the press. For most of the stories, he said, the reporters were either dependent on the government or the militants who were holed up in the complex.
http://thenews.jang.com.pk/top_story_detail.asp?Id=8972
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Aljazeera reports that alledgedly both the Pakistani Red Crescent and Ehdi Foundation were asked for a thousand coffins.
They also report that their cameramen and journalists saw much more than just 73 graves being dug.
There haven't been any family of the deceased at the burial site, only gravediggers. These gravediggers are saying that some coffins had multiple corpses inside one coffin.
Also, they report that eyewitnesses said they saw two large vans leave the Masjid, which they thought were full of dead bodies to be dumped in a mass grave.
Hafiz Ghazi Shaheed smiling after 3 days and blood was still flowing before they burried him.
http://www.jasarat.com/multimedia.php
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...21/main1-1.jpg
***Shaheed smile for they are not dead, any doubts who is with Allah and who is the enemy of Islam and Allah here?***
Aljazeera reports that alledgedly both the Pakistani Red Crescent and Ehdi Foundation were asked for a thousand coffins.
They also report that their cameramen and journalists saw much more than just 73 graves being dug.
There haven't been any family of the deceased at the burial site, only gravediggers. These gravediggers are saying that some coffins had multiple corpses inside one coffin.
Also, they report that eyewitnesses said they saw two large vans leave the Masjid, which they thought were full of dead bodies to be dumped in a mass grave.
Hafiz Ghazi Shaheed smiling after 3 days and blood was still flowing before they burried him.
http://www.jasarat.com/multimedia.php
http://i69.photobucket.com/albums/i7...21/main1-1.jpg
***Shaheed smile for they are not dead, any doubts who is with Allah and who is the enemy of Islam and Allah here?***
Last edited:
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Vanished in Red Mosque
By Aamir Latif, IOL Correspondent
ISLAMABAD — Almost a week after Pakistani government troops ended the Red Mosque standoff, many families are still searching for answers on the fate of hundreds of male and female students who were inside the mosque compound during the military confrontation.
"I have been running from here to there to find out about my son," Abdul Aziz Khan, a resident of Mansehra district of the northwestern frontier province, told IslamOnline.net.
"I have no idea whether he is alive or dead."
Khan’s 18-year old son, Ibrahim, had been studying in Jamia Faridia, a subsidiary of the Red Mosque for the last three years.
He was inside the mosque compound when the government troops mounted a massive attack against militant students and their leaders.
"I just want the government to let me know if my son is dead and where his body is," Khan said with tears rolling down his cheeks.
"I know I can’t do anything against the government. I just want to bury him with my hands."
Though the government puts the official death toll at 102, including 11 troops, independent sources believe that around 300 people, including several women and children, were killed in the fierce battles.
Earlier, the government denied that any women or children were killed during the eight-day assault.
However, it later admitted that "some innocent women and children" were killed.
Tormented by Uncertainty
Khan, a father of three including missing Ibrahim, said his son’s name is not on the lists of the dead, injured or detainees published by the government.
"I have learnt that scores of bodies have been buried in dark. This is highly unjust. The dead too have some rights. You can’t deny their rights on the basis that they are dead," said the emotionally-charged father.
"I don’t expect justice from this government. This is the government of liars and hypocrites. I have lodged my case in the court of Allah, and now He will do the justice."
Gul Zameen, a resident of Batagram district, has been waiting at an information center set up by the government for any information about his missing 14-year old grandson Amanullah.
"I don’t know who I should ask about him? His mother’s condition is deteriorating with every passing day," he told IOL.
Amanullah was memorizing the Holy Quran at Jamia Faridia for the last two years. His father is an overseas worker.
"I have visited many hospitals but there is no clue. My only request to the government is to inform us about our loved ones so that we can wail on their bodies," said the weeping grandfather.
"We don’t want anything more than that."
Fishy
Asma Jehangir, Chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, doubts the official death toll.
"The government must inform us about the exact death toll, and hand over the bodies to their family members who have been running here and there for last various days," she said.
"This is a sheer violation of basic human rights. This is a fundamental right of a person to bury his near and dear one in accordance with his belief," added the rights activist.
"The way the government is hiding the facts, suggests to me that there is something fishy."
Jehangir, known to be a staunch opponent of religious forces, rapped the government for its heavy-handed handling of the Red Mosque issue.
"The government has ruthlessly used its power. We strongly condemn and will continue to condemn extremism and terrorism, but we can’t allow government to violate the human rights," she said.
"The way the government is hiding the facts, suggests to me that there is something fishy."
------------------------------------
Comments:
By Khalid Khan on 2007-07-18 08:45 (GMT)
"When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allahs spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell what an evil refuge!" Quran 4:97 The evidence is plenty and plain for all to read in the Glorious Quran. It is not hidden from any of us, nor can we pick and choose what portions we want to believe if we are Muslims. Indeed, the Pakistani soldiers have well earned the description of Munafiqs during the past five years of Americas war on Islam. While some may think these are hard times for them, their harshest days are yet to come when they face Almighty Allah to answer for their actions.
-----------
More commments and pictures of mass grave digging below
source
Vanished in Red Mosque
By Aamir Latif, IOL Correspondent
ISLAMABAD — Almost a week after Pakistani government troops ended the Red Mosque standoff, many families are still searching for answers on the fate of hundreds of male and female students who were inside the mosque compound during the military confrontation.
"I have been running from here to there to find out about my son," Abdul Aziz Khan, a resident of Mansehra district of the northwestern frontier province, told IslamOnline.net.
"I have no idea whether he is alive or dead."
Khan’s 18-year old son, Ibrahim, had been studying in Jamia Faridia, a subsidiary of the Red Mosque for the last three years.
He was inside the mosque compound when the government troops mounted a massive attack against militant students and their leaders.
"I just want the government to let me know if my son is dead and where his body is," Khan said with tears rolling down his cheeks.
"I know I can’t do anything against the government. I just want to bury him with my hands."
Though the government puts the official death toll at 102, including 11 troops, independent sources believe that around 300 people, including several women and children, were killed in the fierce battles.
Earlier, the government denied that any women or children were killed during the eight-day assault.
However, it later admitted that "some innocent women and children" were killed.
Tormented by Uncertainty
Khan, a father of three including missing Ibrahim, said his son’s name is not on the lists of the dead, injured or detainees published by the government.
"I have learnt that scores of bodies have been buried in dark. This is highly unjust. The dead too have some rights. You can’t deny their rights on the basis that they are dead," said the emotionally-charged father.
"I don’t expect justice from this government. This is the government of liars and hypocrites. I have lodged my case in the court of Allah, and now He will do the justice."
Gul Zameen, a resident of Batagram district, has been waiting at an information center set up by the government for any information about his missing 14-year old grandson Amanullah.
"I don’t know who I should ask about him? His mother’s condition is deteriorating with every passing day," he told IOL.
Amanullah was memorizing the Holy Quran at Jamia Faridia for the last two years. His father is an overseas worker.
"I have visited many hospitals but there is no clue. My only request to the government is to inform us about our loved ones so that we can wail on their bodies," said the weeping grandfather.
"We don’t want anything more than that."
Fishy
Asma Jehangir, Chairperson of the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan, doubts the official death toll.
"The government must inform us about the exact death toll, and hand over the bodies to their family members who have been running here and there for last various days," she said.
"This is a sheer violation of basic human rights. This is a fundamental right of a person to bury his near and dear one in accordance with his belief," added the rights activist.
"The way the government is hiding the facts, suggests to me that there is something fishy."
Jehangir, known to be a staunch opponent of religious forces, rapped the government for its heavy-handed handling of the Red Mosque issue.
"The government has ruthlessly used its power. We strongly condemn and will continue to condemn extremism and terrorism, but we can’t allow government to violate the human rights," she said.
"The way the government is hiding the facts, suggests to me that there is something fishy."
------------------------------------
Comments:
By Khalid Khan on 2007-07-18 08:45 (GMT)
"When angels take the souls of those who die in sin against their souls, they say: "In what (plight) were ye?" They reply: "Weak and oppressed were we in the earth." They say: "Was not the earth of Allahs spacious enough for you to move yourselves away (From evil)?" Such men will find their abode in Hell what an evil refuge!" Quran 4:97 The evidence is plenty and plain for all to read in the Glorious Quran. It is not hidden from any of us, nor can we pick and choose what portions we want to believe if we are Muslims. Indeed, the Pakistani soldiers have well earned the description of Munafiqs during the past five years of Americas war on Islam. While some may think these are hard times for them, their harshest days are yet to come when they face Almighty Allah to answer for their actions.
-----------
More commments and pictures of mass grave digging below
source
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
Musharraf lauds Lal Masjid massacre
By Keith Jones
13 July 2007
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/paki-j13_prn.shtml[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
In a nationally televised address Thursday evening, Pakistan’s US-backed dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, defended the Pakistani military’s storming of the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque), threatened military action against any madrassa (Islamic school) “used for extremism,” and promised to strengthen paramilitary and police forces in the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP).
The general feigned regret at the large number who perished in the 36-hour battle that ended Wednesday afternoon with the military wresting control of the Lal Masjid, a mosque-school complex in central Islamabad. “Unfortunately,” declared Musharraf, “we have been up against our own people ... They had strayed from the right path and become susceptible to terrorism.”
Among the many things Musharraf omitted to say was that he personally scotched a deal Monday night to peacefully end the military’s siege of the Lal Masjid and that the mosque and its leaders had long been part of a nexus linking the Pakistani military-intelligence apparatus to various Islamicist militia groups.
The reality is Musharraf and his military regime staged a massacre. They deployed twelve thousand troops, including many of Pakistan’s elite units, in the heavily-populated center of Islamabad, then ordered an attack on the Lal Masjid that included artillery barrages, even though they knew that hundreds of unarmed people, including women and children, likely remained inside.
Through this bloodletting, Musharraf hoped to achieve two objectives: to please the Bush administration, which has been pressing Islamabad to intensify military action against pro-Taliban elements inside Pakistan even at the cost of antagonizing the country’s tribal and Pashtun minorities; and, second, to divert attention from, and increase his options in dealing with, the mounting opposition to his attempt to stage-manage his “re-election” as president.
Less than two months ago, more than forty people were killed in Karachi when the pro-Musharraf MQM with the connivance of security forces mounted armed attacks on persons gathering to welcome “suspended” Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry.
Just how many people died in the storming of the Lal Masjid complex remains an unanswered question close to two days after the military announced it had seized the mosque.
Pakistani authorities claim to have found 75 bodies in the Lal Masjid and put the total number of dead in the eight-day siege at around 108, including ten military personnel. Eighty-five of the 108 deaths reputedly came during Tuesday’s and Wednesday’s storming of the Lal Masjid.
But the real death toll is likely much larger. The Dawn (pakistan news paper) reported Thursday that an unnamed source who had visited the Lal Masjid and the adjacent Jamia Hafsa seminary for women shortly after the army takeover said the floors were littered with corpses wrapped in white shrouds: “I could not count them but they must be in the hundreds.”
The Dawn also observed that “a promised media trip to the site was put off a day, fuelling speculation that the government was buying time to remove some telltale signs.”
Ever since the military launched its action to seize the mosque, reporters have been barred from the three closest hospitals, so as prevent them from gauging the number of dead and wounded.
For hours after the fighting had ended, the government and military insisted that no, or next to no, women and children had been killed. Later they conceded that some of the 19 bodies too charred to determine gender or age might be those of women and children.
The government’s claims are belied by the scores, possibly hundreds, of people who continue to search desperately for relatives, many of them teenage boys and girls, who were enrolled in one of the two seminaries affiliated with the Lal Masjid and who are now missing.
Acknowledging the widespread public skepticism about the number of casualties, Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani insisted Thursday, “There’s no cover-up. Why should we?”
Reporters who toured the mosque complex Thursday afternoon described it as a battlefield, with bullet-riddled, blood-stained, and in some cases blown-out walls. Military spokesmen said this was evidence of the intensity of the resistance they faced.
A principal government justification for the assault was the reputed presence of “foreign militants” in the complex. This claim was vehemently denied by Abdul Rashid Ghazi, the younger of the two brothers who led the Lal Masjid. Ghazi, who was killed during the storming of the mosque, became the leader of the mosque militants after his brother was arrested on the second day of the siege.
Musharraf, in his speech to the nation Thursday, repeated the charge that foreign fighters had been ensconced in the Lal Masjid, but offered no proof.
Security forces remain on high alert across the country for possible reprisal attacks. On Thursday five people including three police were killed in a suicide bombing in the Swat district of NWFP, and two government officials were killed in a second suicide bombing in North Waziristan, which is part of Pakistan’s tribal belt.
The NWFP government, which is formed by the MMA, a six party alliance of Islamic parties, has decreed a three-day official period of mourning to commemorate all those killed in siege and storming of the Lal Masjid. Since Tuesday there have been demonstrations in many NWFP towns, with protesters denouncing Musharraf as a US puppet.
Opposition to the US government due to its current wars of conquest in Afghanistan and the Iraq and long history of supporting military dictatorships in Pakistan cuts across Pakistan regionally and, to a large degree, socially. But it is especially strong in NWFP, where the majority Pashtun population has strong ethnic and cultural ties to Afghanistan.
US praise for massacre
The Bush administration, meanwhile, has strongly praised the Pakistani government’s brutal suppression of the Lal Masjid militants. Speaking Tuesday as the military operation was in full swing, Bush professed his admiration for the dictator Musharraf and his efforts to build “democracy” in Pakistan: “I like him and I appreciate him.”
Various liberal voices like the New York Times that have been critical of Musharraf of late for not doing enough to suppress support for the Taliban insurgency in Pakistan have also welcomed the military operation against the Lal Masjid.
The US is deeply implicated in the Lal Masjid massacre and not only because the political establishment has been demanding Musharraf do more to support the US-NATO occupation of Afghanistan.
The US played a pivotal role in encouraging the Pakistani military and political elite in using Islamic fundamentalism as a bulwark against the working class and left and in developing ties to armed Islamacist groups in furtherance of US Cold War aims. These ties Islamabad subsequently used to further its own geo-political ambitions in Afghanistan, Kashmir and India-proper.
The US gave the green light to General Zia, who would proclaim “Islamicization” his principal policy, to seize power in a coup in 1977. Soon after, Zia’s regime emerged as the principal conduit for CIA and Saudi support for the mujaheedin in Afghanistan.
US priorities shifted with the end of the Cold War, but the Pakistani military-intelligence apparatus continued to nurture and expand its relations with various Islamic militias.
The prestigious Lal Masjid mosque, which is situated in the center of Islamabad in close proximity to many government buildings, including the headquarters of Pakistan’s secret police (the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency), became an important part of this nexus.
The La Masjid was long led by the father of Abdul Rashid Ghazi, Maulana Abdullah—
a man said to have enjoyed a close relationship with General Zia. And both Ghazi and his brother are known to have had links to the Pakistani military-security establishment.
Since seizing power in 1999, Musharraf has been forced to make a series of sharp shifts, under US pressure, ratcheting back the military-security apparatuses’ relations with Islamicist groups. Most dramatically, in September 2001, in response to US threats to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age, Musharraf withdrew Islamabad’s support for the Taliban regime and agreed to allow the US to use Pakistan as a staging area for the conquest of Afghanistan. But Islamabad has also been pressured by Washington to curtail its support for the anti-Indian insurgency in Kashmir.
These steps have caused frictions within the Pakistani establishment, especially given the sidelining of the Pashtuns within Afghanistan’s US-installed government and the failure of Washington to prod India into make any meaningful concessions over Kashmir.
The full story of how and why the Lal Masjid Islamacists came into collision with the Musharraf regime has yet to be told. Some of their actions, such as voicing support for pro-Taliban elements in the NWFP and tribal areas, drawing attention to the growing number of “disappeared,” and kidnapping police and Chinese nationals as part of a campaign for sharia law, clearly cut across the government’s agenda.
Lucrative property was also an issue, with government authorities claiming facilities connected with the Lal Masjid and other Islamabad mosques were built illegally.
The vast majority of the students at the two seminaries affiliate with the Lal Masjid, many of whom participated in an armed agitation in Islamabad in support of sharia law, it needed be added, come from the most impoverished regions of Pakistan. The spread of madrassas is not due just to the political support they have enjoyed since the Zia dictatorship. It is also a product of the wretched poverty that prevails in Pakistan and the abysmal state of public education.
That said, there is much evidence to show Pakistani authorities allowed the Las Masjid agitation to develop, ignoring for months actions that challenged the government’s legitimacy. As numerous observers have pointed out, it is ludicrous to suppose that large quantities of arms and ammunition could have been smuggled into the Lal Masjid unbeknownst to the ISI high command, whose plush offices are within easy walking distance.
At the very least, the Musharraf regime saw the Islamic agitation in the capital as a means of intimidating the working class and democratic opposition to military rule.
After temporizing and conniving with the Lal Masjid agitation, Musharraf cynically and brutally turned against it, seeing its bloody suppression as a means of both demonstrating to Washington his determination to heed the US’s demand he crack down on Taliban support in Pakistan and of perpetuating his dictatorship.
As part of his attempts to broker a power-sharing deal with Benazir Bhutto and her Pakistan People’s Party (PP), the general is trying to cast himself as a “secularist” and advocate of “enlightened” Islam. Bhutto, for her part, has repeatedly indicated that she is prepared to ally with the general in the name of opposing the Islamic right, if a satisfactory division of the spoils of office can be hammered out.
Bhutto’s PPP welcomed the military action against the Lal Masjid and has refused to join forces with the most of the other opposition parties, including Nawaz Sharif’s PML (N) and the MMA, in a new alliance. The All-Parties Democratic Movement has called anti-Musharraf rallies for next month, but the PPP, which has increased its interaction with the Bush administration in recent months, has declared the time not propitious for a popular agitation.
Should it prove impossible for him to strike a deal with the PPP, Musharraf has the option of using the government’s confrontation with Islamic “extremists” as the pretext for imposing emergency rule and thereby short-circuiting the elections promised for this fall.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/paki-j13.shtml
Musharraf lauds Lal Masjid massacre
By Keith Jones
13 July 2007
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/paki-j13_prn.shtml[SIZE=-1][/SIZE]
In a nationally televised address Thursday evening, Pakistan’s US-backed dictator, General Pervez Musharraf, defended the Pakistani military’s storming of the Lal Masjid (Red Mosque), threatened military action against any madrassa (Islamic school) “used for extremism,” and promised to strengthen paramilitary and police forces in the North-West Frontier Province (NWFP).
The general feigned regret at the large number who perished in the 36-hour battle that ended Wednesday afternoon with the military wresting control of the Lal Masjid, a mosque-school complex in central Islamabad. “Unfortunately,” declared Musharraf, “we have been up against our own people ... They had strayed from the right path and become susceptible to terrorism.”
Among the many things Musharraf omitted to say was that he personally scotched a deal Monday night to peacefully end the military’s siege of the Lal Masjid and that the mosque and its leaders had long been part of a nexus linking the Pakistani military-intelligence apparatus to various Islamicist militia groups.
The reality is Musharraf and his military regime staged a massacre. They deployed twelve thousand troops, including many of Pakistan’s elite units, in the heavily-populated center of Islamabad, then ordered an attack on the Lal Masjid that included artillery barrages, even though they knew that hundreds of unarmed people, including women and children, likely remained inside.
Through this bloodletting, Musharraf hoped to achieve two objectives: to please the Bush administration, which has been pressing Islamabad to intensify military action against pro-Taliban elements inside Pakistan even at the cost of antagonizing the country’s tribal and Pashtun minorities; and, second, to divert attention from, and increase his options in dealing with, the mounting opposition to his attempt to stage-manage his “re-election” as president.
Less than two months ago, more than forty people were killed in Karachi when the pro-Musharraf MQM with the connivance of security forces mounted armed attacks on persons gathering to welcome “suspended” Supreme Court Chief Justice Iftikhar Chaudhry.
Just how many people died in the storming of the Lal Masjid complex remains an unanswered question close to two days after the military announced it had seized the mosque.
Pakistani authorities claim to have found 75 bodies in the Lal Masjid and put the total number of dead in the eight-day siege at around 108, including ten military personnel. Eighty-five of the 108 deaths reputedly came during Tuesday’s and Wednesday’s storming of the Lal Masjid.
But the real death toll is likely much larger. The Dawn (pakistan news paper) reported Thursday that an unnamed source who had visited the Lal Masjid and the adjacent Jamia Hafsa seminary for women shortly after the army takeover said the floors were littered with corpses wrapped in white shrouds: “I could not count them but they must be in the hundreds.”
The Dawn also observed that “a promised media trip to the site was put off a day, fuelling speculation that the government was buying time to remove some telltale signs.”
Ever since the military launched its action to seize the mosque, reporters have been barred from the three closest hospitals, so as prevent them from gauging the number of dead and wounded.
For hours after the fighting had ended, the government and military insisted that no, or next to no, women and children had been killed. Later they conceded that some of the 19 bodies too charred to determine gender or age might be those of women and children.
The government’s claims are belied by the scores, possibly hundreds, of people who continue to search desperately for relatives, many of them teenage boys and girls, who were enrolled in one of the two seminaries affiliated with the Lal Masjid and who are now missing.
Acknowledging the widespread public skepticism about the number of casualties, Information Minister Mohammad Ali Durrani insisted Thursday, “There’s no cover-up. Why should we?”
Reporters who toured the mosque complex Thursday afternoon described it as a battlefield, with bullet-riddled, blood-stained, and in some cases blown-out walls. Military spokesmen said this was evidence of the intensity of the resistance they faced.
A principal government justification for the assault was the reputed presence of “foreign militants” in the complex. This claim was vehemently denied by Abdul Rashid Ghazi, the younger of the two brothers who led the Lal Masjid. Ghazi, who was killed during the storming of the mosque, became the leader of the mosque militants after his brother was arrested on the second day of the siege.
Musharraf, in his speech to the nation Thursday, repeated the charge that foreign fighters had been ensconced in the Lal Masjid, but offered no proof.
Security forces remain on high alert across the country for possible reprisal attacks. On Thursday five people including three police were killed in a suicide bombing in the Swat district of NWFP, and two government officials were killed in a second suicide bombing in North Waziristan, which is part of Pakistan’s tribal belt.
The NWFP government, which is formed by the MMA, a six party alliance of Islamic parties, has decreed a three-day official period of mourning to commemorate all those killed in siege and storming of the Lal Masjid. Since Tuesday there have been demonstrations in many NWFP towns, with protesters denouncing Musharraf as a US puppet.
Opposition to the US government due to its current wars of conquest in Afghanistan and the Iraq and long history of supporting military dictatorships in Pakistan cuts across Pakistan regionally and, to a large degree, socially. But it is especially strong in NWFP, where the majority Pashtun population has strong ethnic and cultural ties to Afghanistan.
US praise for massacre
The Bush administration, meanwhile, has strongly praised the Pakistani government’s brutal suppression of the Lal Masjid militants. Speaking Tuesday as the military operation was in full swing, Bush professed his admiration for the dictator Musharraf and his efforts to build “democracy” in Pakistan: “I like him and I appreciate him.”
Various liberal voices like the New York Times that have been critical of Musharraf of late for not doing enough to suppress support for the Taliban insurgency in Pakistan have also welcomed the military operation against the Lal Masjid.
The US is deeply implicated in the Lal Masjid massacre and not only because the political establishment has been demanding Musharraf do more to support the US-NATO occupation of Afghanistan.
The US played a pivotal role in encouraging the Pakistani military and political elite in using Islamic fundamentalism as a bulwark against the working class and left and in developing ties to armed Islamacist groups in furtherance of US Cold War aims. These ties Islamabad subsequently used to further its own geo-political ambitions in Afghanistan, Kashmir and India-proper.
The US gave the green light to General Zia, who would proclaim “Islamicization” his principal policy, to seize power in a coup in 1977. Soon after, Zia’s regime emerged as the principal conduit for CIA and Saudi support for the mujaheedin in Afghanistan.
US priorities shifted with the end of the Cold War, but the Pakistani military-intelligence apparatus continued to nurture and expand its relations with various Islamic militias.
The prestigious Lal Masjid mosque, which is situated in the center of Islamabad in close proximity to many government buildings, including the headquarters of Pakistan’s secret police (the Inter-Services Intelligence Agency), became an important part of this nexus.
The La Masjid was long led by the father of Abdul Rashid Ghazi, Maulana Abdullah—
a man said to have enjoyed a close relationship with General Zia. And both Ghazi and his brother are known to have had links to the Pakistani military-security establishment.
Since seizing power in 1999, Musharraf has been forced to make a series of sharp shifts, under US pressure, ratcheting back the military-security apparatuses’ relations with Islamicist groups. Most dramatically, in September 2001, in response to US threats to bomb Pakistan back to the Stone Age, Musharraf withdrew Islamabad’s support for the Taliban regime and agreed to allow the US to use Pakistan as a staging area for the conquest of Afghanistan. But Islamabad has also been pressured by Washington to curtail its support for the anti-Indian insurgency in Kashmir.
These steps have caused frictions within the Pakistani establishment, especially given the sidelining of the Pashtuns within Afghanistan’s US-installed government and the failure of Washington to prod India into make any meaningful concessions over Kashmir.
The full story of how and why the Lal Masjid Islamacists came into collision with the Musharraf regime has yet to be told. Some of their actions, such as voicing support for pro-Taliban elements in the NWFP and tribal areas, drawing attention to the growing number of “disappeared,” and kidnapping police and Chinese nationals as part of a campaign for sharia law, clearly cut across the government’s agenda.
Lucrative property was also an issue, with government authorities claiming facilities connected with the Lal Masjid and other Islamabad mosques were built illegally.
The vast majority of the students at the two seminaries affiliate with the Lal Masjid, many of whom participated in an armed agitation in Islamabad in support of sharia law, it needed be added, come from the most impoverished regions of Pakistan. The spread of madrassas is not due just to the political support they have enjoyed since the Zia dictatorship. It is also a product of the wretched poverty that prevails in Pakistan and the abysmal state of public education.
That said, there is much evidence to show Pakistani authorities allowed the Las Masjid agitation to develop, ignoring for months actions that challenged the government’s legitimacy. As numerous observers have pointed out, it is ludicrous to suppose that large quantities of arms and ammunition could have been smuggled into the Lal Masjid unbeknownst to the ISI high command, whose plush offices are within easy walking distance.
At the very least, the Musharraf regime saw the Islamic agitation in the capital as a means of intimidating the working class and democratic opposition to military rule.
After temporizing and conniving with the Lal Masjid agitation, Musharraf cynically and brutally turned against it, seeing its bloody suppression as a means of both demonstrating to Washington his determination to heed the US’s demand he crack down on Taliban support in Pakistan and of perpetuating his dictatorship.
As part of his attempts to broker a power-sharing deal with Benazir Bhutto and her Pakistan People’s Party (PP), the general is trying to cast himself as a “secularist” and advocate of “enlightened” Islam. Bhutto, for her part, has repeatedly indicated that she is prepared to ally with the general in the name of opposing the Islamic right, if a satisfactory division of the spoils of office can be hammered out.
Bhutto’s PPP welcomed the military action against the Lal Masjid and has refused to join forces with the most of the other opposition parties, including Nawaz Sharif’s PML (N) and the MMA, in a new alliance. The All-Parties Democratic Movement has called anti-Musharraf rallies for next month, but the PPP, which has increased its interaction with the Bush administration in recent months, has declared the time not propitious for a popular agitation.
Should it prove impossible for him to strike a deal with the PPP, Musharraf has the option of using the government’s confrontation with Islamic “extremists” as the pretext for imposing emergency rule and thereby short-circuiting the elections promised for this fall.
http://www.wsws.org/articles/2007/jul2007/paki-j13.shtml
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
If one observes all the points made here one will realise how the whole operation was conducted. Same tactics were applied as what U.S did exactly 4 years ago in Iraq.
The Excuse for assault was weapons of Mass Destruction and then toppling Saddam Hussein. Many things were crafted ( 90% based on Lies ) in order to get U.K on board.
Dr. Kelly ( one of the scientists in U.K ) who was against the dossier presented in Commons by the ex-PM Blair mysteriously died ( Reports were he committed suicide/ Allah knows Best ).
So same tactics were applied and implemented here as Musharaff's masters did 4 years ago. Lies and forged claims were based to kill scores of people. Attacked the mosque made one Muslim kill another Muslim.
Scare mongering and use of force has become a norm, one day we are killing Muslims in Waziristan and another day in the Capital in the name of so called War on Terror.
People have more faith in Democratic system than the Islamic system, this fact gives me shivers, have us all really forgotten our values and purpose our existence. Well I don't blame anyone after seeing Mulana Fazal ur Rehman and Qazi Hussein Ahmed being part of a semi Muslim semi Democratic ( which ever suites them ) establishment.
This Massacre was planned to please Musharraf's masters. These are desperate measures to secure more support and funds from the West ( Elections are knocking on the door ) hand pecked people need money to run there political campaigns and bribe poor villages to get their votes. We might see another operation anywhere in Paksitan get a few foreigners and cash them in another way of fund raising.
Also this Massacre was done to divert peoples interest from the previous messes made by the Govt. including the CJ's cause and APC in London.
One more thing how many foreigners are actually captured from Lal Masjid or Jamia Hafsa as claimed By Mr. Ijaz ul Haq in the recent Capital talk. He blatantly lied using a Dead Man's ( Mualana Abdur Rasheed Ghazi May Allah Forgive him and give him Jannah ) name.These people really haven't an ounce of dignity or shame left.
-------------
Thanks to this massacre by the gov't. The NWF and Muslims are fighting back. There has been several attacks on the army all over pakistan. Arm soldiers are being bombed and killed left and right and this will continue as the kins and supporters of the massacred fight back for revenge and for justice.
Pakistani troops face more attacks
Violence spreads in Pakistan
If one observes all the points made here one will realise how the whole operation was conducted. Same tactics were applied as what U.S did exactly 4 years ago in Iraq.
The Excuse for assault was weapons of Mass Destruction and then toppling Saddam Hussein. Many things were crafted ( 90% based on Lies ) in order to get U.K on board.
Dr. Kelly ( one of the scientists in U.K ) who was against the dossier presented in Commons by the ex-PM Blair mysteriously died ( Reports were he committed suicide/ Allah knows Best ).
So same tactics were applied and implemented here as Musharaff's masters did 4 years ago. Lies and forged claims were based to kill scores of people. Attacked the mosque made one Muslim kill another Muslim.
Scare mongering and use of force has become a norm, one day we are killing Muslims in Waziristan and another day in the Capital in the name of so called War on Terror.
People have more faith in Democratic system than the Islamic system, this fact gives me shivers, have us all really forgotten our values and purpose our existence. Well I don't blame anyone after seeing Mulana Fazal ur Rehman and Qazi Hussein Ahmed being part of a semi Muslim semi Democratic ( which ever suites them ) establishment.
This Massacre was planned to please Musharraf's masters. These are desperate measures to secure more support and funds from the West ( Elections are knocking on the door ) hand pecked people need money to run there political campaigns and bribe poor villages to get their votes. We might see another operation anywhere in Paksitan get a few foreigners and cash them in another way of fund raising.
Also this Massacre was done to divert peoples interest from the previous messes made by the Govt. including the CJ's cause and APC in London.
One more thing how many foreigners are actually captured from Lal Masjid or Jamia Hafsa as claimed By Mr. Ijaz ul Haq in the recent Capital talk. He blatantly lied using a Dead Man's ( Mualana Abdur Rasheed Ghazi May Allah Forgive him and give him Jannah ) name.These people really haven't an ounce of dignity or shame left.
-------------
Thanks to this massacre by the gov't. The NWF and Muslims are fighting back. There has been several attacks on the army all over pakistan. Arm soldiers are being bombed and killed left and right and this will continue as the kins and supporters of the massacred fight back for revenge and for justice.
Pakistani troops face more attacks
Violence spreads in Pakistan
snakelegs
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
you obviously (from previous threads) find it quite acceptable for a group to take the law in to their own hands and try to bring shariah to pakistan by force, and you obviously think it's fine to declare "holy war" on pakistan. i am assuming that you think the suicide killings of soldiers in frontier provence and FATA is okay also?
don't you think these people will eventually supply the very excuse the u.s. has been seeking to take direct military action against pakistan?
you obviously (from previous threads) find it quite acceptable for a group to take the law in to their own hands and try to bring shariah to pakistan by force, and you obviously think it's fine to declare "holy war" on pakistan. i am assuming that you think the suicide killings of soldiers in frontier provence and FATA is okay also?
don't you think these people will eventually supply the very excuse the u.s. has been seeking to take direct military action against pakistan?
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
So you condone the massacre of innocents by the army? tell me what is difference between hitler's army and these armie's of today that kill their own civilians? i personally don't see any.
The people are enraged. Their loved ones died unjustly and they will fight back. That is the difference between americans and these people. They will not let their gov't become a military state and loose all their freedom. When the gov't no longer serves the needs of the people (but of other nations) and the people are threatened rather then protected by this gov't and it's army, then a regime change comes. History is a witness to that fact.
So you condone the massacre of innocents by the army? tell me what is difference between hitler's army and these armie's of today that kill their own civilians? i personally don't see any.
The people are enraged. Their loved ones died unjustly and they will fight back. That is the difference between americans and these people. They will not let their gov't become a military state and loose all their freedom. When the gov't no longer serves the needs of the people (but of other nations) and the people are threatened rather then protected by this gov't and it's army, then a regime change comes. History is a witness to that fact.
snakelegs
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
no, i don't condone any killing and i certainly think the whole thing could probably have been better handled.
to compare it to hitler is just plain crazy.
yes there are valid issues in pakistan that need to be addressed and president musharraf's position is one of them.
but no government can allow a group to take the law in to their own hands, no matter how noble the cause.
no, i don't condone any killing and i certainly think the whole thing could probably have been better handled.
to compare it to hitler is just plain crazy.
yes there are valid issues in pakistan that need to be addressed and president musharraf's position is one of them.
but no government can allow a group to take the law in to their own hands, no matter how noble the cause.
islamirama
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Re: Lal Masjid Facts
I understand where you're coming from. Let me share something with you.
Iran had a leader that didn't like US. US replaced him with Shah, who was not only US puppet but a very very ruthless dictator over his people. The result was a revolution by the people and out came the islamic iran you see today.
My point is that, when the ruler and gov't isn't "by the people, for the people" but against the people, then the people will do what they have to in order to protect themselves.
It doesn't matter what you or I think, the people are not happy and they will do what they feel needs to be done, they are seeking justice in their own way when the unjust has no one to answer to.
I understand where you're coming from. Let me share something with you.
Iran had a leader that didn't like US. US replaced him with Shah, who was not only US puppet but a very very ruthless dictator over his people. The result was a revolution by the people and out came the islamic iran you see today.
My point is that, when the ruler and gov't isn't "by the people, for the people" but against the people, then the people will do what they have to in order to protect themselves.
It doesn't matter what you or I think, the people are not happy and they will do what they feel needs to be done, they are seeking justice in their own way when the unjust has no one to answer to.
- Status