Pres. Morsi: Enforcing Hijab is ridiculous, & not from Shariah

['Abd-al Latif]

However, when I see the laws of Allah being twisted to suit a particular situation by current day Neo-Salafis, then to this I do object.

I have had the opportunity, a few months ago, to attend a lecture as well as dine with, the son of the founder of the Muslim Brotherhood.
MashaAllah, he has alot of passion in what he says......but unfortunately, myself and many others, just cannot accept the views of our 'Neo-Salafi' brothers - that are promoted in such a way as if it is the law of Allah.
(In fact, I almost wanted to walk out of the lecture.....)
So, perhaps this is where my reservations stem from as well.....

Does he call himself a neo-salafi? Don't think so.

How can you even call this "laws being twisted to suit a particular situation"? Those who are religious have no problem with the laws and these speeches are largely not even for them. In fact religious Egyptians are protesting for the laws to be implemented and for Morsi to be given the right to completely implement Shariah! It's the secularists and non-Muslims who have explicitly stated that they do not want Shari'ah in spite of the fact that the latter are a minority!

Morsi in the first video is very clearly questioning indirectly where the stance of all Muslims in Egypt is because if one is Muslim then hijab is not going to be a problem. If one is a kafir then there's no obligation to wear hijab. He is not discouraging, prohibiting or going to the other extreme of forcing hijab because making the hijab compulsory right now is not the time – and he has never denied the hijab.

This is the thing about Muslims who live in the west. We don't hear the adhaan everyday from our homes, we don't have access to scholars in our local mosques but we live in a place where we can just about do the basics. Therefore, quite obviously our situation is not the same as in Egypt because in Egypt we have all the aforementioned but that they have their own set of problems.

If at any point Morsi explicitly or even implicitly denied the hijab, cutting of the hands or any other Islamic law then the very people who support him will abandon him!

You wouldn't bother telling a non-Muslim woman to wear hijab because she's a non-Muslim so why would you so horribly call Morsi of "twisting laws"?

 

[جوري]

To all of you who are going loose on Morsi,Keep in mind the Egyptian government is not an Islamic Government or a Caliphate rather its Muslim "Democratic" Government.

Also you can say anything about him but if you have been living under a tyrant ruler who don't even allow Muslim men to establish Salaat in Masjids then you can understand the importance of him as ruler.

The above are two different facts to consider and none of us can change ground realities.

Assalamu Alaikum

You couldn't make it to any political office if you sported a beard... we still considered this not to be as bad as Turkey where religious inclinations offered you an off with your head-we thought in Egypt well at least you couldn't have this job or that job, this university or that university but got to keep your head. I don't think people fully appreciate how hatred is so deeply rooted in these so-called Muslim countries and how difficult it is to uproot it is no different from the days of jahilya... We still have abu jahl and the likes in our midst even if they sport names like Muhammad.

 

[جوري]

You wouldn't bother telling a non-Muslim woman to wear hijab because she's a non-Muslim so why would you so horribly call it twisting laws?

The question I'd like to pose is can you 'force' which were his words and I am a native Arabic speaker can you indeed force any woman Muslim or otherwise to wear hijab? Islam isn't a by force religion!
& Allah :swt: knows best!

 

[marwen]

Situation in Egypt is very very hard today. Any call for shariah will be faced by a ferocious opposition, not only by non muslims but by some parties and groups who call themselves "muslims" or liberal/modern muslims. I can't imagine it's possible or at least easy for any muslim scholar or muslim learder from today, no matter how is he strong or committed to his religion, to apply plain shariah in egypt, while some of the egyptian people are not informed about shariah and have lived for years in disobediance and think shariah is alien. They need some time and some work to learn islam again. It is the same here in tunisia and may be worst.

I can't islamically justify many of Mursi's words, and I agree to sister Zaria's opinion to some extent, may be not exactly the way she described the man, but yeah. That's said I also understand the situation he's facing and why he sometimes uses 'hikma' and patience, because there are many wild animals around him who hate even the idea of islam, and who are ready to destroy the country and make a big fitna. Just watch some egyptian channels who are against Mursi and you will understand every thing.
Egyptian muslims lived a long period in oppression and in a regime which is against Islam, now things are changing but not as speedy as they thought, so they should have patience and wisdom and learn when to be strict and when to be soft.
May Allah help muslims in Egyt and everywhere.

 

[Signor]

You couldn't make it to any political office if you sported a beard... we still considered this not to be as bad as Turkey where religious inclinations offered you an off with your head-we thought in Egypt well at least you couldn't have this job or that job, this university or that university but got to keep your head. I don't think people fully appreciate how hatred is so deeply rooted in these so-called Muslim countries and how difficult it is to uproot it is no different from the days of jahilya... We still have abu jahl and the likes in our midst even if they sport names like Muhammad.

I guess you are talking about the era of Mubarak,right?

I didn't mentioned anything but something which directly contradicts Mubarak's action from Qura'an otherwise list of his wrong doings according to Islam is a long one while keeping in mind he is a 'Muslim Ruler'

 

[CosmicPathos]

who cares???!

 

[~Zaria~]

Perhaps our definitions of 'neo-salafis' may differ from where we are based.....included in this definition, being militant religious groups who have salafi beliefs but with a political project.

As I have mentioned, his quoted words on the issue of hijab - are not from islam (if it includes the muslim audience. If it is directed only to non-muslims, then it is a different matter).

He has clearly stated that cutting off the hands of the thief is NOT from sharia - he is not discussing an individual case, and the circumstances when it should/ should not be applied - but in general terms, he says that it is NOT from sharia.

(it is easy to understand why some see these views as salafi inclined.)


As I have said, my reference to 'clown' stems from:

"My point being that I can not take one seriously, who choses to undermine this deen."


Insha Allah, He guides the decisions and words of this president for the benefit of this ummah.

:wa:

 

[جوري]

He has clearly stated that cutting off the hands of the thief is NOT from sharia - he is not discussing an individual case

That's what the word 'Fiqh' means in his speech- an individual basis. That it is a judicial matter, I reference you to my earlier post!

 

[جوري]

I guess you are talking about the era of Mubarak,right?

Yup!

I didn't mentioned anything but something which directly contradicts Mubarak's action from Qura'an otherwise list of his wrong doings according to Islam is a long one while keeping in mind he is a 'Muslim Ruler'

I am not sure what you mean by this specific statement. But scholars have listed ten things that put one outside the folds of Islam:

under those ten are about 400 articles.. Thus a ruler doesn't have to stand on the pulpit and declare that he's a kaffir to be declared one.

and Allah :swt: knows best,

 

[~Zaria~]

^ To say that it is not from Shariah (which is law declared by Allah unto to His slaves, by means of Al-Quraan and Sunnah of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) ), but it forms part of 'fiqh' - is actually a contradiction (because fiqh is derived from Allah's laws).

Salaam

 

[Insaanah]

It's sad to see religious labels being applied here, as it happens labels I've never even heard of.

It is easy to sit from afar in our chairs in front of our computers and phones, and criticise, but no matter how good we may consider ourselves, given the leadership of a country, we may do immense wrong and be unjust - we could in fact be the worst.

Inshaa'Allah president Dr Mursi will, as he deals with affairs, grow in wisdom, knowledge and confidence. Nobody is perfect, and indeed our leaders shoulder a large responsibility for their subjects, which they will be accountable for.

For such a longstanding oppressive regime beloved to the west to have finished like that without foreign occupation and invasion, and a leader of Islamic leaning to have been chosen by the populace themselves, is almost a miracle in this day and age.

When we look at some other Muslim rulers, he is better than many.

It would be great if there was a perfect Muslim leader who's every decision was correct, and as soon as he got into office implemented Shari3ah overnight in every aspect of life in a 100% correct fashion. But nobody is perfect. Let us pray for him instead. Our du3as can help him if Allah answers them - our criticism, here on this board, most likely won't.

And Allah knows best.

 

[Tyrion]

As I have mentioned, his quoted words on the issue of hijab - are not from islam (if it includes the muslim audience. If it is directed only to non-muslims, then it is a different matter).

I don't want to get into politics, but I'm curious about your reaction to this. If I understood what's being said correctly, he said something to the effect of, "Women shouldn't be forced to wear the hijab, they can choose". Am I right? If so, I see no reason why you would be so annoyed. A Muslim (and obviously non-Muslim) woman is free to choose the hijab or to leave it. This has nothing to do with whether or not you believe it's required in Islam. We have free will for a reason, and wearing religious garb is a manifestation of that freedom. No government or person should force anyone to do/wear something they deem to be a religious requirement, since that would completely defeat the point of the religion and choosing to do good.

 

[Signor]

I am not sure what you mean by this specific statement. But scholars have listed ten things that put one outside the folds of Islam

What I meant here is not issuing a self fatwa of Kaafir(Allah forbids and saves us from doing it).I only seconded your post by mentioning,he not only terrorize young man after they grew beards but also convict them with various charges if they went offering salaat in Mosques etc...I am trying to imply leave the sunnah of beard(assuming its in your hands) He restricts men from Aqa'mahtus Salaat in osques.I hope it makes sense now

 

[Signor]

@ Sis Zaria

I can see from where you are coming from but as I mentioned earlier:

To all of you who are going loose on Morsi,Keep in mind the Egyptian government is not an Islamic Government or a Caliphate rather its Muslim "Democratic" Government.

Also you can say anything about him but if you have been living under a tyrant ruler who don't even allow Muslim men to establish Salaat in Masjids then you can understand the importance of him as ruler.

The above are two different facts to consider and none of us can change ground realities.

Remember it was hard road for Egyptian people where they are standing now and its a democratic setup not Islamic one.

 

[جوري]

^ To say that it is not from Shariah (which is law declared by Allah unto to His slaves, by means of Al-Quraan and Sunnah of the prophet (sallalahu alaihi wasalam) ), but it forms part of 'fiqh' - is actually a contradiction (because fiqh is derived from Allah's laws).

Salaam

What he said is obvious: one size doesn't fit all, that it is a matter of fiqh and fiqh is an expansion of sharia one isn't separate from the other. Did you follow what happened when he tried to remove the former corrupt judge who ruled with a non guilty verdict to all those responsible for the death of those who revolted on January 25th? Well if you've been following the events of late you'd have a clue as to the depth and difficulty of the road he is on to fixate on a term without fully understanding what he is trying to say.
They don't want him to have a grip over the judiciary body in Egypt even though he enabled this act and placed this new judge only for a limited time until the election and it is indeed what the people want justice for their martyrs, it is something that is done all the time is mentioned in article 14 in the French Constitution and even bush declared such a state of emergency and passed crazy laws immediately post 911. No one questioned him, with Mursi no such luck you've a high treasonous individual like El-baradi asking for western interference and a coup against a rightfully elected president for curbing the rights of 'Al ma7kama ad'doustoria' which prior this very court dissolved the parliament which was a good 75% Islamist ruled by popular vote and the same court which by the way is solely hand picked by the former corrupt regime was about to do the same thing to his very office and declare it illegitimate while sending their thugs to the itahdiya palace where the 'Islamists' learned of the coup and went to stop it which cost 7 of them their lives. There's too many details that I can't share here because it would take volumes and I am trying to give you a clue so when you pass judgement as you have above you'd have some semblance of understanding of what is going on. We have to add to that mixture suwaris the copt, Ahmad shafiq who he ran against Mursi for a last minute grip on the country and who has 30 some corruption charges against him and zillions of dollars and was a direct counsel to the former regime and has the support of the likes of khalfan of Emirates who also has ties to Murdoch and sky news both running day full tirades against the Muslim brotherhood. Yes even so called Muslims conspire and spend their money to debar men from the path of Allah!

Mursi has taken temporarily the power away from this court and they of course called him a dictator and a tyrant and the judiciary matters once this constitution is approved and that is a big if will no longer go to the hands of corrupt judges most of them not judges at all or even those with law degrees but were working for the old regime and in shaa Allah directly into the hands of al-Azhar. He has given Christians & Jews similar rights for matters that concern their religion again instead of going to that secular hand appointed court. Then again you've the liked of El baradi asking what about Buddhists what about this what about that. There's so much corruption so much going on against this man that walhi I challenge anyone in here at all who thinks they can do better inheriting what he did of 100 some yrs of nonsense to do so!
But I'll not tolerate the superficial nonsense taken out of context and name calling.. This is a good time in fact to keep silent if nothing positive can be said and to reflect deeply of the consequences of not supporting the only Islamic leadership we've had from a very long time. You want to know where Dr. Mursi spent many years of his adult life for opposing the old regime? Yes him and the rest have spent it mostly in Jail and that's indeed what will happen again but with vengeance if Muslims don't step up to the plate.

 

[جوري]

What I meant here is not issuing a self fatwa of Kaafir(Allah forbids and saves us from doing it).I only seconded your post by mentioning,he not only terrorize young man after they grew beards but also convict them with various charges if they went offering salaat in Mosques etc...I am trying to imply leave the sunnah of beard(assuming its in your hands) He restricts men from Aqa'mahtus Salaat in osques.I hope it makes sense now

It does indeed but many have already passed takfir- it isn't in my hand- I recall many things from the days of sa7aba when the ruler goes out of bounds and we're talking from an already 'Islamically established' Ummah that he can be fought.. Umar Ibn Ilkhtaab when choosing a khalif one his death bed and even though he was sitting in the midst of those who were given the glad tiding of paradise ordered his son that whomever dissents to take the sword to his head. Over here we can't even compare- we're politically occupied in some regions and physically by foreign forces in others. Those leaders are kaffirs not through a 'self fatwah' but as already passed by our scholars and it is indeed obvious to the naked eye.. I have given above a lecture on guideline they use to pass this takffir. But that's a story for another day as we've to deal with the current situation.

btw a democracy even though is completely deficient from an Islamic shura system- Isn't in and of itself the law.. in other words this democracy has brought them the 'Islamists' and they're unhappy about it and trying with all their strength to undermine it should showcase that democracy or not it doesn't matter so long as it brings a secular law. And we're frankly tired of secularism especially in a 95% majority Muslim country. They've no respect whatsoever for majority vote or majority want.

 

[~Zaria~]

Time will tell insha Allah.....


Perhaps my interactions with members of the muslim brotherhood has tainted by perception of this.....
As well as the fact that I have been unintentionally involved with a salafi group (until recently)....so I am aware of its full implications.

And even though i realise that this is not a sharia-ruled state at present, it pains me to hear muslim leaders make comments that are filled with ambiguity (or is it? Allah knows best).

It is not my intention to be unduly critical or judgemental.

May Allah forgive me for my short-comings and deficiencies.
And may He protect this ummah by means of leaders who always strive to uphold His deen.
Ameen

:wa:

 

[Signor]

btw a democracy even though is completely deficient from an Islamic shura system- Isn't in and of itself the law.. in other words this democracy has brought them the 'Islamists' and they're unhappy about it and trying with all their strength to undermine it should showcase that democracy or not it doesn't matter so long as it brings a secular law. And we're frankly tired of secularism especially in a 95% majority Muslim country. They've no respect whatsoever for majority vote or majority want.

Actually,If I am not aware of the conditions there,I will not have any clue what you are saying.Ikhwaan ul Muslimeen had and still the best Egypt has to offer(i.e Scholars,Literary Personnel etc). I don't agree with there political strategy(using democracy) as this can't bring Islam to a country,however,this doesn't brings any question of eligibility of Muslim Brotherhood.It is the most favorite party and only secular powers hates them.Now how Islam views democracy as a ruling setup thats another story for another time.

God Bless

 

[جوري]

I don't see this from Muslim leaders unfortunately:

I may not be happy with everything that is being done.. I am not happy about the fact that he has to take loans Allah a3lam with interest or what when we can be loaned that money from Muslim countries but they'd rather spend it to debar men from the path of Allah wala 7wala wla qiwta illa billah.. but I pray that Allah swt makes him steadfast and that it becomes a prelude and an excellent model for all other Muslim countries.. many of them especially those of them that are monarchies are crapping their pants by now.

 

[جوري]

Actually,If I am not aware of the conditions there,I will not have any clue what you are saying.Ikhwaan ul Muslimeen had and still the best Egypt has to offer(i.e Scholars,Literary Personnel etc). I don't agree with there political strategy(using democracy) as this can't bring Islam to a country,however,this doesn't brings any question of eligibility of Muslim Brotherhood.It is the most favorite party and only secular powers hates them.Now how Islam views democracy as a ruling setup thats another story for another time.

God Bless

I agree with you but for the state that we're in right now we need a transition to ease us into what it is to come.. I can write so much on this and I think if you speak Arabic you'll really enjoy this site:

http://www.almaqreze.net/ar/index.php

but you know I often use the example that a woman doesn't conceive and give birth in one day and Islam itself wasn't established in one day.. there were days of hijrah and persecution before it became an ummah and unfortunately for us that is just where we're right now.. but I think it needs to move forward and not backwards & I believe :ia: that Allah :swt: is causing us the gradual change that we need for where we actually need to be.