Prophet Muhammad cartoon row leads to resignation

['Abd-al Latif]

We actually make it worse sometimes. When we react to such insults, then we give them publicity. It is not intentional, but it is something we should keep in mind. If we don't react, these things MAY go away.

Though I'm not advocating to completely ignore it. Sometimes, there is nothing wrong with responding to these insults, as long as it is done in a calm manner.

I don't believe in such a passive role, in fact I detest staying silent about it. The sahaba were very conscious of anything being said against Islam and made diligent effort to resolve it.

And I don't believe we overreact. I don't think I have ever seen a Muslim overreact – ever – to any discrimination directed towards Islam. I do believe however that Muslims of late have reacted the wrong way.

Protests? Slogans? Hate messages (kill blah blah)? This is not what the way of the righteous. The sahaba and the righteous after them were far more productive and decisive in dealing with such problems.

 

[~ Sabr ~]

Seriously people why is everyone moaning? If they want to draw cartoons let them, we can't really stop them, they can do it in USA, Netherlands, wherever they want, if your a true Muslim just move on with your life, and leave the people which do such things out of it, mostly the media gives them attention...

So when Allaah asks us on the Day of Judgement that did we speak out against the insult of the Prophet (Sallallahu Alayhi Wa Sallam), we hang our heads in shame?!

If these Kufar want to draw let them, but we should move on,and why is everyone actually moaning here, have you seen those Islamic/Arab channels where the portray Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but never show his face, only his body? I find that still blasphemy but no one speaks out then....

​They should?!

 

['Abd-al Latif]

Seriously people why is everyone moaning? If they want to draw cartoons let them, we can't really stop them, they can do it in USA, Netherlands, wherever they want, if your a true Muslim just move on with your life, and leave the people which do such things out of it, mostly the media gives them attention...

If these Kufar want to draw let them, but we should move on,and why is everyone actually moaning here, have you seen those Islamic/Arab channels where the portray Prophet Mohammed (PBUH) but never show his face, only his body? I find that still blasphemy but no one speaks out then....

If you are a true Muslim you won't stand for it, and this is what is mentioned in the Qur'an and Sunnah! Al Mugheerah ibn Ash-shu'ba, a sahabi, wouldn't allow his own non-Muslim uncle to touch the beard of the Messenger of Allah saws1 during a conversation they (the uncle and Messenger :saws1 were having, and threatened to cut off his hand if he tried to do it again. Ibn Taymiyah (r) said that a person does not enjoin the good and forbid the evil for two reasons: he is either coward and is weak or he has an inclination towards evil. I hope that you are not among them.

The Prophet saws1 said that one should change evil with his hands if he is able to, if not then speak against it, and still yet if he is unable to do anything about it then he should hate it in his heart. If you cannot hate this action, as the very least you can do, what iman do you have?

 

[GuestFellow]

I don't believe in such a passive role, in fact I detest staying silent about it. The sahaba were very conscious of anything being said against Islam and made diligent effort to resolve it.

And I don't believe we overreact. I don't think I have ever seen a Muslim overreact – ever – to any discrimination directed towards Islam. I do believe however that Muslims of late have reacted the wrong way.

Protests? Slogans? Hate messages (kill blah blah)? This is not what the way of the righteous. The sahaba and the righteous after them were far more productive and decisive in dealing with such problems.

Salaam,

I don't think I said overreact (if I did, I didn't mean to say that). I meant not to react at all. Some people want a reaction. They like to see Muslims get upset and angry. They find it funny. So I personally will not give them that reaction. This may come under your category of reacting in the wrong way.

At times, I think we have to react when the issue becomes national/international. If let's say, a student insulted Prophet Mohammed (P.B.U.H) and Muslims staged a massive protests outside the school gates to expel him, then I would say we shot ourselves in the foot...

 

[Pygoscelis]

What if all atheists of the world got together and decided that they need to wipe off religion, then would you support annihilation of atheists?

A genuine question.

This right here is the core imbalance of it. They hope for the end of your ideology. You hope for the end of their lives.

And then your fellow muslims are left to complain when the stereotype of the violent hateful muslim emerges. And of course that very stereotype is in large part what drives the people you complain about to begin with. It is a viscious circle.

And as for the Christians, in recent times they have been nowhere near as hateful or violent in their responses to their religion being attacked. Does anybody here remember "p*** christ"? It was a disgusting attack on Jesus. Nobody was killed because of it. There was no call to end the lives of all anti-christians.

Come to think of it, are muslims not anti-christian and christians not anti-muslim? Don't both religions seek to convert the whole planet to their ideology (by peaceful or by violent means depending on the particular muslim/christian?) How is that any different from these anti-religious atheists you speak of? Are you calling for the deaths of all Christians too? Of all believers in religions who wish to spread their beleifs to the world (thereby eliminating Islam)? Do you realize you'd be calling for the death of billions of people?

 

[Pygoscelis]

I have a couple of friends who are atheists and we get along well enough, as long as we don't talk about religion.

I have a few muslim, christian, and jewish friends nad we get along well enough, even if we do talk about religion. I'm under no illusion that the poster above is representative of the religious in general, nor all or even most muslims.

 

[Tyrion]

I'm under no illusion that the poster above is representative of the religious in general, nor all or even most muslims.

Good. Now I won't have to kill you...




:

 

[Pygoscelis]

I think I need to clarify myself. I wasn't supporting the idea to "annihilate all atheists". I was expressing my outright disapproval for portraying Jesus and Muhammed as drinkers;

My question to you is if this potrayal of Mohammed and Jesus as drinkers is more offensive to you than your fellow muslim's hatred for and hoping for the deaths of people who are anti-religious.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die. :heated:

 

['Abd-al Latif]

This right here is the core imbalance of it. They hope for the end of your ideology. You hope for the end of their lives.

And then your fellow muslims are left to complain when the stereotype of the violent hateful muslim emerges. And of course that very stereotype is in large part what drives the people you complain about to begin with. It is a viscious circle.

And as for the Christians, in recent times they have been nowhere near as hateful or violent in their responses to their religion being attacked. Does anybody here remember "p*** christ"? It was a disgusting attack on Jesus. Nobody was killed because of it. There was no call to end the lives of all anti-christians.

Come to think of it, are muslims not anti-christian and christians not anti-muslim? Don't both religions seek to convert the whole planet to their ideology (by peaceful or by violent means depending on the particular muslim/christian?) How is that any different from these anti-religious atheists you speak of? Are you calling for the deaths of all Christians too? Of all believers in religions who wish to spread their beleifs to the world (thereby eliminating Islam)? Do you realize you'd be calling for the death of billions of people?

You couldn't be more wrong. Muslims have never been anti-Christian or even anti-Jewish for that matter. The biggest proof of this is the Christians, Jews and Muslims who had lived together in Jerusalem for hundreds of years under Muslim rule. If anything it was the crusaders who used violent methods to remove the Muslim rule in present day Israel, twice! Both offences being disastrous for Muslims who paid and still pay with their lives till this day.

 

['Abd-al Latif]

My question to you is if this potrayal of Mohammed and Jesus as drinkers is more offensive to you than your fellow muslim's hatred for and hoping for the deaths of people who are anti-religious.

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die. :heated:

I didn't approve or disapprove of anyone else's view of killing. My opinion of his opinion remains neutral until I say so otherwise. I did however clarify my position with my earlier post and that should be sufficient to answer your question. The answer is in the very quotation in your reply.

As for someone hoping that Muslims would die, it wouldn't be the first time I hear it and it certainly won't be the last. My reaction will be to press the big scary red button that says "ban" and the problem will be solved.

 

[Ar-RaYYan]

I wonder what the reaction would be if some racist came here and said he hopes all muslims die.

Maybe this not a direct question but i still like to say something about it - just for a clarification.
Like I said in my earlier post if someone makes a personal and rather offensive comment about you it is quiet different to insulting the prophets.If some racist said that he hopes all muslims die i wouldnt give him the pleasure of a reaction. It is not worth reacting to bigotry comments like that.
But comments like the above is not the same as making blasphemous images of the prophets and making offensive and insulting comments about them. Prophet Muhammad (saw) is more beloved to us than anybody else that has ever walked on this planet so you see for muslims there is more hurt and anger if they hear about people insulting the prophet (pbuh) than about themselves.

 

[Pygoscelis]

You couldn't be more wrong. Muslims have never been anti-Christian or even anti-Jewish for that matter. The biggest proof of this is the Christians, Jews and Muslims who had lived together in Jerusalem for hundreds of years under Muslim rule.

That means they didn't forbid Judaism and Christianity or hunt down and kill them (though I wouldn't be surprised if they did so, a little), it doesn't mean they didn't wish the religions to cease to be and for Islam to be adopted by all. I have heard the latter over and over on this very board. And if one's hope for these religions to cease to exist (and Islam to be adopted by all) is a cause of those who practice those other religions to kill you (by the logic in the post I was responding to), then.... ya... you see my point.

 

[Pygoscelis]

I didn't approve or disapprove of anyone else's view of killing. My opinion of his opinion remains neutral until I say so otherwise.

That is exactly my point. You remain neutral (apparently still do?) in the face of somebody calling for the death of others, and yet complain about somebody drawing a cartoon.

As for someone hoping that Muslims would die, it wouldn't be the first time I hear it and it certainly won't be the last. My reaction will be to press the big scary red button that says "ban" and the problem will be solved.

Again, exactly my point, and exactly as it should be. Yet somehow it changes if the people being wished to die are anti-theist instead of muslim?

 

[CosmicPathos]

That is exactly my point. You remain neutral (apparently still do?) in the face of somebody calling for the death of others, and yet complain about somebody drawing a cartoon.

The moment they stop drawing cartoons, no one would call for their death. Fault is theirs, not mine.

Moreover, many anti-theists want to eliminate ideology + adherents of those ideologies. Even if most atheists want the ideology annihilated but not the ideologists, to ideologists there is no difference in demanding annihilation of just ideology or that of ideologists in addition.

 

[Tyrion]

The moment they stop drawing cartoons, no one would call for their death. Fault is theirs, not mine.

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

 

[CosmicPathos]

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

I do not see it that way. If you do, I cannot help it. All views are equal.

 

[Tyrion]

All views are equal.

What? o.o

 

[CosmicPathos]

What? o.o

In an evolutionary Godless world, all views are equally valid, as long as they are coherent and logically follow from the assumption.

 

[marwen]

A small victory against freedom to hate.

one of my preferred posts.
Indeed It's not really a problem of/with atheism (although it's statistically more related to atheists than others).
This problem is due to a misunderstanding of freedom (the misconception of absolute freedom). That type of people (or point of view) can exist even among different religious people. Adopting a concept of freedom that does not take in consideration the existence of other humans and their choices or religions. A freedom that contradicts freedom (of others). This is pure ignorance. Mixed with the fact that these people are unable to express their ideas with arguments or civil discussion (maybe due to their limited intellectual level). Add to that the hatered feelings accumulated from unexplaned prejudices collected from media/society/etc. So they resort to offensive means as stupid and childish as "cartoons".

 

[Pygoscelis]

How do you not see how hilariously deranged this statement is?

You sir are the thin wedge that keeps the rest of us non-muslims from full on islamophobia in the face of the hateful and all too common statements from other muslims such as the one you are responding to in this post.

We've got a poster stating that people who draw cartoons deserve to die for it (a hater). We've got a moderator who refuses to criticize that view and insists on "remaining neutral" (an enabler). We've got a bunch more posters showing far more dismay over the cartoon than the death wishes.

This thread started by asking why do some anti-theists mock and insult Islam. Is has now come full circle and has given us a prime example of why. Is it really any wonder that Islamophobia thrives and that people like Geert Wilders can get into office?

The true irony of it all is that I am often told that religion makes people better, kinder, more peaceful, etc. And yet here we've got the religious making death wishes and no atheist wishing ill on anybody. Stop and moment and think of what the poster here, a muslim, is doing to Islam by saying it endorses such hatred and death wishes. Is that not worse than some non-muslim drawing your phrophet holding a drink? If not, then perhaps the Geert Wilders' of the world have been right all along and I have been wrong.