Prophet Muhammad cartoon row leads to resignation

[Tyrion]

Any lack of response from me does not automatically show on my approval

As a mod (who I'm sure would have banned a non Muslim member for saying something similar) it kinda does...

 

[Pygoscelis]

Some atheists do desire for Muslims not to practice their faith in public, but I highly doubt they will go as far to kill Muslims.

The only people I've ever heard calling for the death of muslims have been fundamentalist christians. Anti-theist atheists do mock religion but I've never heard one call for the death of anybody, and I talk to a lot of them being an atheist myself.

I love CosmicPathos. For some reason, he reminds me of my grandpa. My grandpa gets all angry and goes rarrr over anything. The next minute, he's a big softy. It could be a multiple personality disorder like Jekyll and Hyde.

Would you feel the same if he announced that he hopes you die?

 

[Pygoscelis]

I do no think any room for "peace" remains when you do not want the otherness to survive even if you peacefully wished so. The fact that you wished so highlights your inner desire for its end, and that by definition is a threat. For example, much like how if someone wishes, peacefully, that may the White people of world perish, even if they do not advocate violence.

The anti-theists you complain of have not expressed any hope that muslims of the world all die. It is you who have expressed the hope that they all die. They have merely expressed the hope that your ideology ends, not that you end.

If somebody told me they hope that in the future white people cease to exist as a race, as white people crossbreed and are outbred by other races, that really wouldn't bother me much. I certainly wouldn't start wishing the speaker drops dead after hearing such a thing.

Nor would do I wish muslims drop dead for wishing all atheists to cease being atheists and come to Islam.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Do you make such a big deal over every minor, petty, minute detail about everything else in the world as well?

When it people publicly declare a wish for the death of other people, yes, I often do make a big deal out of such a minor petty and minute thing. I feel the same way about fundamentalist racist christains who wish for the death of muslims. Don't you?

I do not support the unjust killing of anyone.

Glad to hear it. Now how do you feel about people on your forum endorsing such a thing? Can I finally get you to frown on that like you do on people drawing cartoons?

Any lack of response from me does not automatically show my approval, or denial for that matter

Agreed, it does not show your approval. But it does indicate indifference. Especially when you wrote above that you would not stand by and allow somebody to express their hope for the death of muslims. Apparently if they are muslim, that'd make it objectionable enough to get you to condemn it.

 

[CosmicPathos]

That doesn't follow. If people want ideologies to go away, that doesn't mean they want people to die. You're just looking for some kind of justification for your twisted views.



I think you need to take a break from the internet and just reflect on your own for a while... Maybe spend some time with a box full of kittens. (Or puppies, if you're a dog person..)

I wish all racist ideologies would die, but I don't for a second consider wishing for all followers of such ideologies to die... But you seem to think that just wishing for the end of a belief leads to exterminating believers. That's insane.

it is called pre-emptive strike.

 

[CosmicPathos]

They have merely expressed the hope that your ideology ends, not that you end.

Well that is kind of dangerous. In an evolutionary world, what is holding these anti-theists back from killing us in their fervor for ending the ideology? Ideology does not survive without its followers, the only way an ideology can end is if its follower's start leaving that ideology, or die. Now since Islam has come to exist, I do not think it will die off just like that by its followers leaving it over a number of generations, slowly and slowly, but it does remain possible that a systematic extermination of its followers be justified, and why not, when it is allright now to snap off niqab off a sister walking down Bloor St in Toronto downtown or when its okay to ban her from wearing her niqab at her citizenship oath. If banning niqab is possible, shooting a Muslim is possible too.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Running around killing muslims (as in your imagination, not reality) isn't going to end Islam. It may even drive people towards Islam. It would certainly entrench those who are already muslims and would likely drive many to radicalism. No, if Islam ceases to be it won't be because non-muslims kill muslims. It will be because muslims, especially newer generations of muslims, abandon their faith. And linking Islam to the hope that other people die may be a good way to push them, and certainly any new potential converts, away.

At the end of the day, you are the one wishing death on people, not these anti-religious atheists you fear.

 

[Ramadhan]

This thread started by asking why do some anti-theists mock and insult Islam. Is has now come full circle and has given us a prime example of why. Is it really any wonder that Islamophobia thrives and that people like Geert Wilders can get into office?

Are you saying that the atheist in the OP drew cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (saw) drinking in a pub because some muslims like CosmicPathos wished him death?

Or are you just assuming the intention of the OP cartoonist?

 

[Ramadhan]

Yes, I know this. These anti-theists being written about are not to force muslims to deconvert either, but they can wish for it

The anti-theist was written about not because he wanted muslims to deconvert, but because he insulted muslims by drawing cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (pbuh) drinking in a pub.

Pygo, you need to learn how to write facts only, and not your own assumptions.

 

[Pygoscelis]

Are you saying that the atheist in the OP drew cartoons of prophet Jesus and Muhammad (saw) drinking in a pub because some muslims like CosmicPathos wished him death?

Or are you just assuming the intention of the OP cartoonist?

Actually in the case of the cartoonist it isn't even that. He is just having fun and entertaining fellow atheists and liberal religious folks. If you read his strip it is not nearly as aggressive as people here may want to believe. I went and looked at a few of the cartoons. They are very tame and quite funny, more laughing with religion than laughing at it. Clearly people are going out of their way to be insulted by this. Meanwhile we've got a guy wishing death on folks and the reaction is lapse.

 

[Ramadhan]

Would you feel the same if he announced that he hopes you die?

What if anyone here wishes death upon George W. Bush.
Would you still get as upset?

 

[Ramadhan]

Actually in the case of the cartoonist it isn't even that. He is just having fun and entertaining fellow atheists and liberal religious folks. If you read his strip it is not nearly as aggressive as people here may want to believe. I went and looked at a few of the cartoons. They are very tame and quite funny, more laughing with religion than laughing at it. Clearly people are going out of their way to be insulted by this. Meanwhile we've got a guy wishing death on folks and the reaction is lapse.

Now, now... you are being double standards

You get your panties all twisted because one muslim's outburst wishing for atheists death and feel that is a lot more grieveous than an insult.
And you think nothing about atheists who drew cartoons of our beloved prophets (pbut). You are saying that the atheists were laughing with religion, well that is bollocks, unless you believe that we muslims actually take our religion as laughing matter.

What if we tell you that insulting our prophet (pbuh) is more grievous to us muslims than if you wish death for all of us?
For me personally, I would certainly laugh it off if you wish death upon me, but I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

 

[Pygoscelis]

Now, now... you are being double standards

It isn't a double standard. It is a difference in priorities. I hold life as more important than cartoons. You evidently don't.

I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

Angry enough to want me dead?

 

[Ramadhan]

It isn't a double standard. It is a difference in priorities.

It is double standards by you, you try to shove your own standards to other people while expecting other people to respect your standards.
You believe making fun of prophets (pbut) is nothing, and expect us to believe it is also nothing.

I hold life as more important than cartoons. You evidently don't.

Again, you are full of your own unfounded assumption. Nowhere have I stated that I hold cartoons more important than life.
I will make it clearer for you: the honor of prophet Muhammad (pbuh) is more dearly to me than my own life. Unless you are more hypocrite than I thought, surely you can respect my own belief?

Angry enough to want me dead?

Excuse me? Where/when did I ever give you even the slightest hint of that?
My God! your head is full of your own unfounded assumptions and paranoia!

 

[Tyrion]

What if anyone here wishes death upon George W. Bush.
Would you still get as upset?

I would, if it was over a cartoon he drew.

What if we tell you that insulting our prophet (pbuh) is more grievous to us muslims than if you wish death for all of us?
For me personally, I would certainly laugh it off if you wish death upon me, but I will get very upset and angry if you insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh).

That doesn't mean you should be wishing death on a group of people, or overreacting in any way. There are productive ways we're supposed to show and deal with anger, and that isn't one of them. You just end up falling into a trap that has you supporting negative stereotypes about Muslims, and the worst part is that I think most of the people who issue these death threats over a cartoon end up thinking rather highly of themselves, as if they're doing something praiseworthy... But I seriously doubt (from what I know about the Prophet, saw) that Muhammad (saw) would approve of this. I feel like it's just doing a great disservice to him, and his message.

By the way, is there any mod on this forum that can restore some sanity here? Or are all the higher ups in favor of the things said by some of our Muslim members? :heated:



EDIT: @Ramadhan, I just realized that in your response to pygo you seem surprised that we're talking about death threats over cartoons... Just to catch you up in case you haven't been following the last few pages of the thread, we're discussing a few members inappropriate statements regarding the cartoon. Just thought you should know, since most people (like myself, and possibly pygo) are assuming you've been keeping up with the discussion.

 

[Ramadhan]

That doesn't mean you should be wishing death on a group of people, or overreacting in any way.here are productive ways we're supposed to show and deal with anger, and that isn't one of them. You just end up falling into a trap that has you supporting negative stereotypes about Muslims, and the worst part is that I think most of the people who issue these death threats over a cartoon end up thinking rather highly of themselves, as if they're doing something praiseworthy... But I seriously doubt (from what I know about the Prophet, saw) that Muhammad (saw) would approve of this. I feel like it's just doing a great disservice to him, and his message.

again, when did I ever wish death on a group of people or overreacting in any way against people who insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

Please, stop accusing me for something that I never did.
And please clear your head from all those unfounded assumptions.

 

[Tyrion]

again, when did I ever wish death on a group of people or overreacting in any way against people who insult prophet Muhammad (pbuh)?

Please, stop accusing me for something that I never did.
And please clear your head from all those unfounded assumptions.

Read my entire post. You walked into a thread in the middle of a discussion. It's natural to assume you've kept up and are joining in, especially since you started responding to posts that were addressing said discussion...

 

[CosmicPathos]

of course, it is clear to any sane being here that I have not wished death upon psygocells personally. Moreover, he seems to be an atheist, not an anti-theist.

I still maintain my stance about anti-theists. Anti-theists are schizophrenic psychopaths.

 

[Ramadhan]

Read my entire post. You walked into a thread in the middle of a discussion. It's natural to assume you've kept up and are joining in, especially since you started responding to posts that were addressing said discussion...

Has anyone here wishing death upon any particular member?

 

[Aprender]

And vie one with another for forgiveness from your Lord, and for a paradise as wide as are the heavens and the earth, prepared for those who ward off (evil); (133) Those who spend (of that which Allah hath given them) in ease and in adversity, those who control their wrath and are forgiving toward mankind; Allah loveth the good; (134) [Al Imran:133-134]

Aisha (May Allah be pleased with her) said, "Never was the Messenger of Allah (pbuh) given the choice between two things without choosing the easier of them, as long as it entailed no sin. If it did entail sin, he was of all people the most remote from it. Never did he seek revenge for something done against himself; but when the sanctity of Allah was challenged, he would take vengeance for His sake alone." [Bukhari and Muslim]

Abdullah Ibn Amr (May Allah be pleased with him) said, "The Messenger of Allah (p.b.u.h.) was never immoderate or obscene. He used to say, 'Among those who are most beloved to me are those who have the finest character.'" [Bukhari and Muslim]

May Allah make us from those who suppress their anger. May Allah make us from those who forgive people lovingly and pardon them out of love of Allah. Ameen