Prophet Noah and The Flood...

[جوري]

I asked you to show me where someone said that Noah was sent.

ragdollcat1982 says that there was a worldwide flood (no one is contesting that is in the Bible), but I don't see where he or the Bible says that Noah was sent to anyone. Those are different issues. Did you not imply that Christians hold that Noah was sent to all human kind? The only thing I am questioning is your substantiation for that position.

Have you lost it completely?
a world wide flood, (no contesting it in the bible per you) an arc that took him centuries to build and he was sent only to his 'family' as you allege? How long do you wish to maintain this folly and for what purpose? That is not worthy of a biblical mention and God would be sort of vindictive if he sent a 'world wide' flood just to warn his family.. now how about this, why don't you show me from the bible where it states he was sent only to 'his family'.. frankly your logic is nonexistent and almost on every thread and yet you allege that is what ails others.. projection anyone?

all the best

 

[muslimapoclyptc]

How do you know that they were? I can only work with what the Quran gave me as a clarification of the event... and the Quran states he was sent 'illa qwamihi' very straightforward as the translator illustrates.. 'To his folk'.. were his folk all of 'man-kind'?.. that remains to be proven!

What about what is said in the ahadith about the flood?

Notice, according to the Biblical account Noah is has no message for anyone. He is not told by God to tell other people to repent, or warn them about a flood. The only people that he is responsible for are his own family, wife and kids and their wives -- this would be in keeping with what the Qur'an says, "his own folk". (A little bit of math with the geneologies of Genesis shows that Noah even leaves his own grandfather Methuselah to die in the flood -or at least he died the same year as the flood.) But no where in the story is Noah sent to all of mankind. Mankind (except for Noah and his family) is to perish in the flood -- that was God's whole intent.

As far as filling the ark with species, Noah's family is representative of human kind. The other species that are to fill the ark are representatives of all the of the birds and land animals. (The Bible suggests that they are of every creature and does stretch one's imagination as to how, but that question isn't germane to the issue of to whom Noah was sent. Noah doesn't go and get either any people nor any animals. The people are specified to be his family and God causes the animals come to him. So, it is not true to say that the Bible presents Noah as being sent to anyone or anything at all.

Perhaps the reason it isn't mentioned in the Bible, is because that part of the story was "lost" or "forgotten", like other stories that aren't in the Bible, such as the stories of Prophets Hud and Salih.

Also, the ayats recounting the story of Prophet Nuh (Qur'an 11:25-48) make it quite clear that he was sent to guide his people. That all happened before God decided to drown them in a flood, so it's easy to see how it could fit into the Biblical narrative.

 

[جوري]

What about what is said in the ahadith about the flood?

I haven't read any ahadith about the flood so I can't comment!

 

[Malaikah]

The Quran deosn't says they were living in a limited loction, that's a presumtion.

And besides, the Quran says the ark landed on a mountain, you can't have a local flood covering mountains.

They landed on a mountain? Doesn't that just counter the argument that the whole earth was covered in water?

 

[Grace Seeker]

What about what is said in the ahadith about the flood?



Perhaps the reason it isn't mentioned in the Bible, is because that part of the story was "lost" or "forgotten", like other stories that aren't in the Bible, such as the stories of Prophets Hud and Salih.

Also, the ayats recounting the story of Prophet Nuh (Qur'an 11:25-48) make it quite clear that he was sent to guide his people. That all happened before God decided to drown them in a flood, so it's easy to see how it could fit into the Biblical narrative.

Could be. I'm just saying that when one says that Christians say that Noah was sent to all of mankind, that such statements have no foundation in the Bibe and I've never seen any Christian here make the statement either. For while Christians understand that the Bible presents Noah as building the arc, are reports that the flood was world wide, there is no discussion at all about Noah being sent to warn anyone or being sent any place for any other purpose either.

I'm sure there is a lot of detail that isn't recorded, part of that detail might be that Noah did do the things that are suggested, but the Bible itself is silent on that fact one way or the other.

 

[Follower]

I wonder how the theory of Pangaea and the time of a global flood ties together.

 

[muslimapoclyptc]

I haven't read any ahadith about the flood so I can't comment!

I haven't either. Although, based on the story itself, I'm inclined to think that the flood was global.

If the flood were local or regional, Prophet Nuh and his followers could've simply migrated to another location, leaving his people to their fate.

The fact that Prophet Nuh needed to construct an ark and house it with different animals implies that there was no land to go to that would be safe from the flood, hence the flood would've been global.

I wonder how the theory of Pangaea and the time of a global flood ties together.

They're probably unrelated. As the Qur'an says, the water came from the Earth's interior, and that's where it returned. Pangaea broke up 200 million years ago, giving way to the formation of the Earth's oceanic crust and thus the Earth's oceans. Thus, Pangaea would probably predate any global deluge.

 

[Follower]

Do we have truly accurrate dates on when either event happened?

Did any of you see the special on TV about finding the one commmon ancestor of all of us through DNA study? I was only able to catch bits of it and wonder what their conslusion was.

 

[muslimapoclyptc]

Do we have truly accurrate dates on when either event happened?

We probably don't have accurate dates for when the flood happened. However, we know Pangaea broke up 200 million years ago, based on the fact that none of the ocean floor predates 200 million years.

Did any of you see the special on TV about finding the one commmon ancestor of all of us through DNA study? I was only able to catch bits of it and wonder what their conslusion was.

I don't remember if I saw that or not, but it doesn't surprise me.

 

[جوري]

I haven't either. Although, based on the story itself, I'm inclined to think that the flood was global.

If the flood were local or regional, Prophet Nuh and his followers could've simply migrated to another location, leaving his people to their fate.

The fact that Prophet Nuh needed to construct an ark and house it with different animals implies that there was no land to go to that would be safe from the flood, hence the flood would've been global.

1- I believe what the Quran teaches on the matter and not my own whims.. we have no idea how many of them there were?

Obama is president to his people, but his people are a good 300,000 million?

there is no room for innovation as far as the Quran is concerned! That is actually what ails the bible.. every new scribe or scholar thinks his brain compasses all, writes out of whims and the end looks nothing like what God intended.

I'd be very wary following my own whims, as that is what lands folks unto hell 're-writing' the word of God or re-intrpeting based on desire.. read sura 18 from the Quran, especially the last few verses as to why!

all the best

 

[muslimapoclyptc]

1- I believe what the Quran teaches on the matter and not my own whims.. we have no idea how many of them there were?

Obama is president to his people, but his people are a good 300,000 million?

there is no room for innovation as far as the Quran is concerned! That is actually what ails the bible.. every new scribe or scholar thinks his brain compasses all, writes out of whims and the end looks nothing like what God intended.

I'd be very wary following my own whims, as that is what lands folks unto hell 're-writing' the word of God or re-intrpeting based on desire.. read sura 18 from the Quran, especially the last few verses as to why!

all the best

I don't see any whimsical desire nor innovation in what I said. What I was basically saying, was that the Qur'an implies a global flood.

The ahadith also imply it when they basically say that all of mankind descends from Prophet Nuh's 3 sons.

People are only motivated to argue for a local or regional flood, because a global flood is seen as being too inconceivable to be rationalized.

 

[جوري]

I don't see any whimsical desire nor innovation in what I said. What I was basically saying, was that the Qur'an implies a global flood.

The ahadith also imply it when they basically say that all of mankind descends from Prophet Nuh's 3 sons.

People are only motivated to argue for a local or regional flood, because a global flood is seen as being too inconceivable to be rationalized.

I didn't say anything about a flood, I said he was sent to 'his people' as per Quran.. nothing more nothing less on the subject..

 

[Grace Seeker]

They landed on a mountain? Doesn't that just counter the argument that the whole earth was covered in water?

How would it?

 

[جوري]

How would it?

I guess from the biblical description she assumed like the rest of us that something like this occurred

after all the 'whole earth is flooded' and yet Noah was only sent just to his family.. it is curious indeed

peace

 

[glo]

They landed on a mountain? Doesn't that just counter the argument that the whole earth was covered in water?

Imagine the whole earth was covered in water and you floated above all land in a boat.
If the water started to disappear, would the mountains not protrude through the remaining water first and therefore be the first areas of dry soil/rock to land on?

Peace

 

[Grace Seeker]

after all the 'whole earth is flooded' and yet Noah was only sent just to his family.. it is curious indeed

What would be so curious about that? Of course the Bible doesn't say anything about Noah being sent to anyone with a message one way or the other. Just as the hadiths don't say anything about the size of the flood. But it certainly could be just as you describe. The only things that Noah is specifically told to do are:
(1) build an arc (and he was also told how to build it)
(2) let the animals representing all of the birds and land animals come to him
(3) take food for all of these animals on the arc
(4) get his family on it

Supposedly, on the arc, were "male and female of all flesh" (Genesis 7:16). These were kept safe on the arc, while outside the arc:

Genesis 7

18 The waters rose and increased greatly on the earth, and the ark floated on the surface of the water. 19 They rose greatly on the earth, and all the high mountains under the entire heavens were covered. 20 The waters rose and covered the mountains to a depth of more than twenty feet. 21 Every living thing that moved on the earth perished—birds, livestock, wild animals, all the creatures that swarm over the earth, and all mankind. 22 Everything on dry land that had the breath of life in its nostrils died. 23 Every living thing on the face of the earth was wiped out; men and animals and the creatures that move along the ground and the birds of the air were wiped from the earth. Only Noah was left, and those with him in the ark.

 

[جوري]

What would be so curious about that? Of course the Bible doesn't say anything about Noah being sent to anyone one way or the other. Just as the hadiths don't say anything about the size of the flood. But it certainly could be just as you describe. The only things that Noah is specifically told to do are:
(1) build an arc (and he was also told how to build it)
(2) let the animals representing all of the birds and land animals come to him
(3) take food for all of these animals on the arc
(4) get his family on it

Supposedly, on the arc, were "male and female of all flesh" (Genesis 7:16). These were kept safe on the arc, while outside the arc:

curious that God would **** the earth for no apparent good reason and without warning as per you...
that is to say I subscribe to your view of things which I don't... as it doesn't agree with:

'GENESIS: THE FLOODChapter 6: 5 And Yahweh saw that man's wickedness was great over the face of the earth, and that all day the thoughts in his heart formed nothing but wickedness.
6 And Yahweh regretted having made man on the face of the earth, and his heart grieved.
7 And Yahweh said, "I will wipe man from the face of the earth, man, my own creation and also the animals of the field, and the creatures that crawl on the ground, and the birds of the air; for I regret having made them."

http://www.wsu.edu/~dee/HEBREWS/GENFLOOD.HTM

amazingly not only does god **** the earth but he also feels regret..
do you think while we are on the subject god regretted forsaking himself? also I like the thoughts in his heart and wickedness all very godlike traits..

yeah curious indeed...

all the best

 

[Grace Seeker]

curious that God would **** the earth for no apparent good reason and without warning as per you...

I don't say that God had no good reason. As a matter of fact he had a very good reason -- people's wickednees. So, God resolved to blot out all of humanity except for Noah who found favor with God, and Noah's family was saved along with him. But as for the rest of humanity, there is no clue in the Bible that they received (or for that matter deserved) a warning.

 

[جوري]

I don't say that God had no good reason. As a matter of fact he had a very good reason -- people's wickednees. So, God resolved to blot out all of humanity except for Noah who found favor with God, and Noah's family was saved along with him. But as for the rest of humanity, there is no clue in the Bible that they received (or for that matter deserved) a warning.

ah.. enjoyed how you switched your story there..Noah was sent to his family because there was wickedness 'upon the world' .. and alas you admit God was out to 'blot all of humanity' but giving only fair warning to Noah's family.. all whilst feeling pangs of pain and regret and remorse in his heart? Brilliant..

all the best

 

[Follower]

Graceseeker - Are you saying that you believe that GOD can feel sorrow that He has to wipe out almost all of humanity because of their sin?

Using the King Saul story, God is sorry that He had to choose Saul:
1 Samuel 15
11It repenteth me that I have set up Saul to be king: for he is turned back from following me, and hath not performed my commandments. And it grieved Samuel; and he cried unto the LORD all night.

But he would make him King again because he was the best choice. GOD does not really need to feel repentant:
1 Samuel 15
29And also the Strength of Israel will not lie nor repent: for he is not a man, that he should repent.

If it came to it again GOD would cause the flood, the desicion was a good one.