Prove Allah exists

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FreeThinker

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Simple question (or is it?)
Prove Allah exists.
No scripture, no theoretical nor pragmatic arguments. Show me some EMPIRICAL evidence!
 
We've had this debate like a million times.

Are you a new atheist?
 
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τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1337187 said:
how about you prove that God doesn't exist? you have heard of the null hypothesis?
if not I have covered it quite extensively here:

I'll be waiting for your rock solid data which will most assuredly defy all the laws of logic and statistics!

all the best
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1. It's impossible to prove a negative. Since you are making the claim (that god exists) the burden of proof is on you.
But I do have an argument, here it is:

God supposedly gave man free will.
People whom are mentally ill or mentally retarded have limited control over their actions or impulses.
A mentally ill person in a comatose state or just a normal person in a coma have no free will.
Being that not everybody has free will over the actions of their bodies or the thoughts in their heads not all people were given free will.
If all people do not have free will then god could have not given all people free will.
We only sin because we have free will but since all people do not have free will sin does not exist
 
My Philosophy proff would beat you for being lazy. Assert a proposition or narrow your request and we shall talk. Most people start with something big, like cosmology. Or we can begin with something small, like quantum physics. Luckily, my ethics professor was a theist. :statisfie:

As far back as we know--even before the historical record--humans have believed in a supernatural, universal force we oft call God. It seems the burden of proof is on you.
 
FreeThinker said:
1. It's impossible to prove a negative. Since you are making the claim (that god exists) the burden of proof is on you.
But I do have an argument, here it is:
Click to expand...
well you are in fact starting at a 'double negative' you've neither proven that God doesn't exist nor have you given a plausible explanation for everything in existence in a logical concise and as you say 'empirical evidence' based manner!

again, I'll be waiting, and I request that you in fact read in full how you go about doing a research of this caliber!
God supposedly gave man free will.
People whom are mentally ill or mentally retarded have limited control over their actions or impulses.
A mentally ill person in a comatose state or just a normal person in a coma have no free will.
Being that not everybody has free will over the actions of their bodies or the thoughts in their heads not all people were given free will.
If all people do not have free will then god could have not given all people free will.
We only sin because we have free will but since all people do not have free will sin does not exist
Click to expand...
This is irrelevant drivel.. we are not discussing specifics of religion when you in fact don't know whether God does or doesn't exist and what that entails for mankind!

all the best
 
Candle said:
As far back as we know--even before the historical record--humans have believed in a supernatural, universal force we oft call God. It seems the burden of proof is on you.
Click to expand...

As stated previously, it's impossible to disprove a negative. The burden of proof is on the ones making the claim that something exists (in this case, Allah.)

Your argument that most humans have believed in the supernatural / god is an appeal to belief, which is a logical fallacy.
Just because a lot of people believe in something does not make it true.

In my opinion, the fact that all cultures have had some sort of religion or mythology is proof that they're all wrong (they can't all be right, because they contradict each other.) To me the fact that humans have always had some sort of religion/mythology is proof that it is a part of human nature, nothing more.
 
Look around you man the world the universe.... everything..................... its enough to know god exist.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1337190 said:
well you are in fact starting at a 'double negative' you've neither proven that God doesn't exist nor have you given a plausible explanation for everything in existence in a logical concise and as you say 'empirical evidence' based manner!

again, I'll be waiting, and I request that you in fact read in full how you go about doing a research of this caliber!
This is irrelevant drivel.. we are not discussing specifics of religion when you in fact don't know whether God does or doesn't exist and what that entails for mankind!

all the best
Click to expand...

I can't prove that god doesn't exist. Just like I can't prove that Santa Clause doesn't exist or that unicorns don't exist or that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, etc.
Again, it's impossible to disprove a negative.
Do you have any proof that Allah exists?

I don't know what created the universe and I never claimed to. However, I don't believe it was created by Allah, obviously.
You are creating a red herring because you are trying to divert attention from the topic at hand.

My argument against Allah isn't drivel. This is a Muslim forum. Muslims believe that Allah gave man freewill and I gave an argument against it.
 
We only sin because we have free will but since all people do not have free will sin does not exist
Click to expand...

Things which sin. Q
Things with free will. R
Things without free will. P

1. All Q are R
2. P are not Q
3. ?

That argument doesn't even reconstruct properly.. Somewhere in there you've assumed that the existence of sin is predicated on the universal application of sin. That's kind of like saying, we only taste salt because we have taste buds, but since not all people have taste buds salt does not exist.
 
Adib Shaikh said:
Look around you man the world the universe.... everything..................... its enough to know god exist.
Click to expand...

Sorry, not good enough. I think the world and the universe and everything is proof that there is either is no god or no benevolent god.
I can't post links, but search youtube for "stupid design" demonstrated by Neil DeGrasse Tyson.

There's also a great quote from the tv show House:

"Sister Mary Augustine: Why is it so difficult for you to believe in God?
Gregory House: What I have difficulty with is the whole concept of belief. Faith isn’t based on logic and experience.

Augustine: I experience God on a daily basis, and the miracle of life all around. The miracle of birth, the miracle of love. He is always with me.

House: Where is the miracle in delivering a crack-addicted baby? Hmmm? And watching her mother abandon her because she needs another score. The miracle of love. You’re twice as likely to be killed by the person you love than by a stranger."
 
In my opinion, the fact that all cultures have had some sort of religion or mythology is proof that they're all wrong (they can't all be right, because they contradict each other.) To me the fact that humans have always had some sort of religion/mythology is proof that it is a part of human nature, nothing more.
Click to expand...

Similarly, this is like saying that man's right to equal treatment does not exist because each culture goes about it differently. Communism, democracy and mixed market economies do not disprove the ideal; they are different ways of trying to attain the ideal.
 
FreeThinker said:
In my opinion, the fact that all cultures have had some sort of religion or mythology is proof that they're all wrong .
Click to expand...

That is one of the most turgid propositions I have ever heard.. in fact, the conclusion here should be that the desire to find God is innate in human nature, that having a desire outside of that is to deny oneself the very nature of being human.
Be that as it may.. you are right, that it is hard to prove a negative, should be harder still to prove a double negative. You have neither given a scientific explanation that is data based evidence for the world and the universe you find yourself in, nor have you conceded to the obvious default response!

I hazard say you are too young and too influenced to be able to sort out through much of the crap and in definite need of what we call 'confirmation bias' I suspect for that reason alone you dropped the 'dawkin, 'dennett' bit.. they can reason through their own delusions, question is can you? it is easy to be a follower or a movement, but it isn't not easy to be a pioneer.. because it takes a bit more work than boring other forumers with the usual yawn inducing drivel..

all the best
 
FreeThinker said:
I can't prove that god doesn't exist. Just like I can't prove that Santa Clause doesn't exist or that unicorns don't exist or that the flying spaghetti monster doesn't exist, etc.
Again, it's impossible to disprove a negative.
Do you have any proof that Allah exists?
Click to expand...

I'd love to live for the day when an atheist comes in here with something outside of these tired lines.
(see previous response) and let me know if you are having difficulty understanding the laws of logic, statistics (even though I have clearly delineated them) on a separate thread or just mere common sense eludes you?!
I don't know what created the universe and I never claimed to. However, I don't believe it was created by Allah, obviously.
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Why not obviously? If we are talking about something as huge as the universe with all the little intricacies, billions of galaxies and complex biochemical and physiological reactions, then I expect something better than 'I never claimed' and 'obviously'
I don't like wasting my time kid, and I think you should have better things to do with it, if you can't make a solid argument for yourself, then don't make membership on forums asking members to defend their beliefs!
You are creating a red herring because you are trying to divert attention from the topic at hand.
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Not at all, I am very much in keeping with the topic. You have to have a fair exchange, and so far you seem to run along the same ignorance and cowardice and tired liners of atheists before and surely those who will come after you!
My argument against Allah isn't drivel. This is a Muslim forum. Muslims believe that Allah gave man freewill and I gave an argument against it.
Click to expand...
see previous reply!

all the best
 
Candle said:
Similarly, this is like saying that man's right to equal treatment does not exist because each culture goes about it differently. Communism, democracy and mixed market economies do not disprove the ideal; they are different ways of trying to attain the ideal.
Click to expand...

The right to equal treatment and the existence of god is a false equivocation in my opinion. Because one is demonstrably true and the other is not.

And my point still stands. All religions are not compatible with each other.

Let's take Christianity and Islam as example.

Christians believe that Jesus died for the sins of humanity. They also believe that Jesus was god in human form (not just a human.) Christians do not regard Muhammad as a prophet.
Muslims do not believe Jesus died on the cross and they do not believe that he was a god, just a prophet of god. Muslims regard Muhammad as the final prophet.

Obviously, these two religions are not compatible. Either one is right or they're both wrong.

And that is just one example. What about all of the polytheistic religions? Are they compatible with your beliefs of strict monotheism? No.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1337197 said:
in fact, the conclusion here should be that the desire to find God is innate in human
Click to expand...

Which is why I stated in the same post: "the fact that humans have always had some sort of religion/mythology is proof that it is a part of human nature, nothing more."
But just because religion is a part of human nature does not mean god is real. That would be an appeal to belief.
 
The right to equal treatment and the existence of god is a false equivocation in my opinion. Because one is demonstrably true and the other is not.

And my point still stands. All religions are not compatible with each other.
Click to expand...

False proposition. You are already assuming the conclusion of the argument to be one way in order to prove a premise which contributes to the conclusion. This is circular thinking.
The religions need not be compatible, only their source. Various incompatible objects spring from the same source, and they prove to indicate the existence of the source, not the contrary.
 
There is a little well kept secret amongst popstar atheists and their popular material, and that is that a surprising number of theists and monotheists habit the philosophy and meta-ethics faculties in all the great universities. This is where you're heading. Now where would you like to begin? Arguments based on intentionality? Collections and sets? Natural numbers? Counterfactuals or universal constants? The good old fashioned ontological argument? Induction? Putnamian? Morality and meaning?

I suspect that you are here to debate and not to find answers.
 
τhε ṿαlε'ṡ lïlÿ;1337198 said:
Why not obviously? If we are talking about something as huge as the universe with all the little intricacies, billions of galaxies and complex biochemical and physiological reactions, then I expect something better than 'I never claimed' and 'obviously'
Click to expand...

Evolution explains the diversity of life. It also logically explains how life changes to better suit the environment. If there were an all-knowing being (Allah) why wouldn't he/she/it just create everything in a static state that was also perfectly made for the environment?

We live in a universe that is not fine-tuned for life. The Earth is the only known planet that is able to harbor life (not saying it is the only one, just the only one humans know of.) Put life anywhere else in the known universe and it will die instantly. This to me is a good argument AGAINST a benevolent god.
99% of all life that has ever existed is extinct. Why would an all-knowing being be so bad at creating life that his creations go extinct 99% of the time?

What about life on other planets? Intelligent life? If there is intelligent somewhere else in the universe (I believe there is) did Allah send prophets to them to? Or are humans the only creation he cares about? Also, if Allah did send prophets to intelligent life on other planets, did he send the same prophets? Muslims claim that Muhammad is the last and final messenger of god. Well, what if intelligent life formed AFTER Muhammad's lifetime? Can Allah not send them a prophet, because that would mean Muhammad would cease to be the final messenger. Are they just out of luck?

Also, there is a verse in the Qur'an that states that Allah scattered life THROUGH OUT the universe. To me, that is saying that Allah created life on other planets. I will look up the verse later.

Also, I will read your thread later. It is getting late and it is too long to read now.
 
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