Prove Allah exists

[Danah]

Simple question (or is it?)
Prove Allah exists.
No scripture, no theoretical nor pragmatic arguments. Show me some EMPIRICAL evidence!

Very Easy...."No scripture, no theoretical nor pragmatic arguments"

Its YOU who is reading this post right now!

 

[espada]

lol

Pascal's wager is such a fail.

Ok ... but i doubt you'd know that until you are dead.

"treat parents well, feed the poor, fight oppression, protect yourself from sexual misconduct and live simply"

If you think only Muslims do that, than you are completely deluded.
If you NEED Islam to do those things, then I REALLY feel bad for you.
If you are only doing those things to fulfill your faith in hopes of getting into heaven, then you are a very sanctimonious and insidious person.

i'm not anyone's judge. What you asked is to prove to you, random internet person that God exists.

That is not possible. But i still believe in Allah and the Last Day. That is called faith.

Belief in the unseen.

You seem to be judging my intentions. And you've a made bunch of assumptions about me and my thinking.

But still friend, and i doubt it is your intention, you are only increasing my faith in Allah.

And i'm sorry if that detests you.

 

[FreeThinker]

1. I am using the Muslim definition of god ie an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, conscious being.
2. The analogy he uses fails because he is assuming there has to be a creator, there doesn't. Objects and machines have creators, but those things are unnatural (they don't occur in nature, people have to make them.) The universe is natural. We can see natural things grow and there is no intelligence behind it. It is just a natural phenomenon. The universe is natural as well, so why assume there was a conscious being behind its creation?
3. The scientific "miracles" in the Qur'an can be explained logically. There was an exmuslim on youtube who made a good video on the subject. His user name is "discussislam" but he took all his videos down.
4. Read the book "God is not great" by Hitchens. Chapter 9 is titled "The Koran is borrowed from both Jewish and Christian myths" You can probably find it online for free, if you have the desire to.
5. Francis Bacon lived in the 1500s before we knew about DNA, evolution, radio activity, and a billion other things. I don't think his quote stands the test of time.

 

[FreeThinker]

1. I am using the Muslim definition of god ie an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, conscious being.
2. The analogy he uses fails because he is assuming there has to be a creator, there doesn't. Objects and machines have creators, but those things are unnatural (they don't occur in nature, people have to make them.) The universe is natural. We can see natural things grow and there is no intelligence behind it. It is just a natural phenomenon. The universe is natural as well, so why assume there was a conscious being behind its creation?
3. The scientific "miracles" in the Qur'an can be explained logically. There was an exmuslim on youtube who made a good video on the subject. His user name is "discussislam" but he took all his videos down.
4. Read the book "God is not great" by Hitchens. Chapter 9 is titled "The Koran is borrowed from both Jewish and Christian myths" You can probably find it online for free, if you have the desire to.
5. Francis Bacon lived in the 1500s before we knew about DNA, evolution, radio activity, and a billion other things. I don't think his quote stands the test of time.

This is a rebuttal to the lecture by Zakir Naik that An33za posted.

 

[Zafran]

I'll start from 2
2 - your assuming that there is no creator - your opnion on natural things not being created is also an assumption. You also make the assumption that there is no intelligence behind natural things.
3 - Some of the verses of the Quran can be explained by science.
4 - poor argument - very old that has had many refutations from muslims - You need to look at the other side as well.
5 - those things are not known but they are the best guess work we have at this moment in time.

Prove empirically that your great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great, great grandma actually existed and we'll talk about God.

 

[espada]

If you don't mind could you tell us a little about your upbringing?

Were you raised in any particular religious faith, are your parents religious?

When did you start to form you opinions?

Everyone has a right to their thoughts through their life experiences.

i'd like to know yours outside of books you may have read.

 

[FreeThinker]

If you don't mind could you tell us a little about your upbringing?

Were you raised in any particular religious faith, are your parents religious?

When did you start to form you opinions?

Everyone has a right to their thoughts through their life experiences.

i'd like to know yours outside of books you may have read.

I was not raised in a particular religion. My families religious background is Christian (various sects.) My dad was raised as a Roman Catholic, but he is not religious. My mom was raised as a protestant, she is not religious either, however, my mom is not an atheist though, she is a Deist.

I first started describing myself as an atheist in the 7th grade. I was introduced to the "four horsemen of atheism" in high school. I guess that's when I started being open about it.

 

[espada]

Well, i actually think i may know who may be able to help you.

But i don't think you are going to particularly like the answer.

So before i tell you, let me ask you this:

Do you really want to know if Allah (God) exists? Or are you just trying to prove that we can't prove it to you?

 

[FreeThinker]

I'll start from 2
2 - your assuming that there is no creator - your opnion on natural things not being created is also an assumption. You also make the assumption that there is no intelligence behind natural things.

What makes you think there is intelligence behind natural things? Besides the fact that your religion tells you there is.

 

[Lynx]

freethinker,

Don't you think it makes more sense to look up the literature written by people who actually discuss these things for a living instead of asking on a random forum? I promise there's no shortage of stuff written on this topic. I mean you might as well have gone into a crowd of Muslims at the Mosque and ask them to prove God exists. Your discussion is futile here and this topic has been discussed and argued about thousands of times since ancient philosophers. Nothing new is going to pop up here and I can't even imagine what fun there is in picking an argument over something that's been argued literally ad nauseum.

 

[Supreme]

5. Francis Bacon lived in the 1500s before we knew about DNA, evolution, radio activity, and a billion other things. I don't think his quote stands the test of time.

If anything, my study of science (and chemistry in particular) has brought me closer to God. It's simply irrational to believe the Periodic Table and the elements and their reactions and their ions etc just came into being as if by magic. There has to have been a Creator is always my first thought when diving into chemistry.

 

[Masuma]

Why do you assume it's a "who" ??

I think saying "We don't know how the universe was created / what created it, therefore, GOD DID IT!" is sheer intellectual laziness.

Did I say that "we don't know how the universe was created/ what creted it, therefore, GOD DID IT!"? Would you mind pointing out please? Where did I say it? ;D

Now the problem with you is that you are assuming everything up before they come to pass. Why can't you answer a simple question? What theories, no matter how ridiculous,(and believe me, I won't mind) you have, explaining you the origin of the universe? And just to make it easy for you, do you support Darwin's theory, theory of evolution etc?

Please this time, don't start to assume my replies! You'll know them when I post them here.

And when do you get online? I was thinking of a quick question-answer session! What do you say? :hmm:

 

[Masuma]

@ Freethinker:

Please try to answer the questions instead of treacherously avoiding them! K? You have asked us many questions here, and we've given you replies, but why can't now YOU answer my simple question?

Now again, for your comfort, they are here:

Q1: You don't believe God exists and its totally okay! So do you have any of your theories, which YOU believe to be explaining the origin of the universe? Do you believe big bang to explain the "universe creation" rightly?

Q2: Do you agree with Darwin's theory and the theory of evolution?

Q3: Do you have any OTHER theories which YOU believe to be true?

Now this time, the post is short and the questions are simple. And if you won't answer them, then of course I would have to admit that you are treacherously avoiding them; you don't want any discussion etc etc!

So please!

Peace!

 

[Zafran]

What makes you think there is intelligence behind natural things? Besides the fact that your religion tells you there is.

where did I say there was intelligence behind natural things?? Theres another assumption that you make.

 

[Masuma]

In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful!


Sorry, I didn’t know that this post was also addressed to me. It was so way up there and invisible among others but still…



Come on freethinker, don't you think I would know you've something called internet through which you can find almost zillions of rebuttals, some even by illiterate people, and then would try to make your point here? That's so sad then!

1. I am using the Muslim definition of god ie an omnipotent, omnipresent, omniscient, conscious being.

Yeah that is now better! See, in this way if you'll reply to my questions, we would inshAllah (if God wills) have no problem!

2. The analogy he uses fails because he is assuming there has to be a creator, there doesn't. Objects and machines have creators, but those things are unnatural (they don't occur in nature, people have to make them.) The universe is natural. We can see natural things grow and there is no intelligence behind it. It is just a natural phenomenon. The universe is natural as well, so why assume there was a conscious being behind its creation?

And what is the definition of “natural”? Perhaps “something which is not created”? Is that what you mean? Is “universe” natural? But I read that it was created in a big bang?! What do you say about this?
Every living creature was “formed” from the primary raw materials present like carbon, hydrogen etc. (As you know carbohydrates consists of carbon and hydrogen; proteins have carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxy etc!)
So that means none of us are natural??? I’m not natural?

You said:

they don't occur in nature,

So universe doesn’t occur in nature because it WAS created??? Ouchi! My head hurts by taking in such an ill-logical point!

The analogy he uses fails because he is assuming there has to be a creator, there doesn't.

So there is no point of discussion here and the whole purpose of discussion fails because “you are PRESUMING that there is no Creator?” You see, YOU ASSUME TOO, many, many things! Like you’ve assumed that there is no Creator! So we Muslims are not the only one here “assuming: things.

3. The scientific "miracles" in the Qur'an can be explained logically. There was an exmuslim on youtube who made a good video on the subject. His user name is "discussislam" but he took all his videos down.

Sad! But don’t worry; I can give you the links of 5 or 6 anti-Islamic forums and sites where many ex-muslims and Atheists have tried to rebuttal this lecture or tried to “explain” the scientific miracles of Quran.

4. Read the book "God is not great" by Hitchens. Chapter 9 is titled "The Koran is borrowed from both Jewish and Christian myths" You can probably find it online for free, if you have the desire to.

Thanks for increasing my list of anti-Islamic books. I’ll include this book too. So what were you saying…? Yeah! “So do YOU believe that Koran is borrowed from both Jewish and Christian myths”? Hmmm?

5. Francis Bacon lived in the 1500s before we knew about DNA, evolution, radio activity, and a billion other things. I don't think his quote stands the test of time.

You are not making any sense here! Why a “quote” would needs to pass the test of time? Why are you trying to change the words? It is the “religions” and “concepts” which should pass the test of time.
Now about Francis Bacon, do you know he was a scientist also? And BECAUSE of his experience in science, he said that
“Little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God.”
If a person has knowledge about some subject, then I think it allows him to pass statements regarding it. Right?
Don’t you realize that believers have covered or traveled one more level than the non-believers? Because every believer was once a non-believer till Allah gave him/her guidance.
But still, if you don’t agree with Francis Bacon’s quote because “he lived in 1500s before we knew about DNA, evolution, radio activity, and a billion other things” then okay. I live in your century and now we have discovered many, many things, and now I say that
“Little knowledge of science makes man an atheist, but an in-depth study of science makes him a believer in God”, so you agree? Just kidding! (of course my quotes hold no importance)
And now, seriously, if you don’t agree with Francis Bacon’s quote then simply ignore it.

 

[FreeThinker]

where did I say there was intelligence behind natural things?? Theres another assumption that you make.

You said: "your assuming that there is no creator - your opnion on natural things not being created is also an assumption. You also make the assumption that there is no intelligence behind natural things"

If there is no creator behind natural things, than we can presume there is no creator behind the universe, because it too is natural.

 

[FreeThinker]

In the name of Allah, the most Gracious, the most Merciful!


Sorry, I didn’t know that this post was also addressed to me. It was so way up there and invisible among others but still…

My definition of natural: Something occurring spontaneously in nature, something was not created by a sentient being.
The big bang was also natural, so no, the universe being created by the big bang does not contradict my definition.
Living creatures are formed by different elements, those elements are naturally occurring, that doesn't contradict my definition of natural either.

There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an, to put it bluntly. All you need is a little skepticism and to do a little research and you will see that they have non-divine explanations.
How do you explain the incorrect science in the Qur'an? Such as semen being created between the backbone and ribs? (Semen is created in the testes, below the ribs.)

It's not anti-islamic book, it's an anti-religion book. It takes on all religions. I think you should read it, despite the fact that you think it's anti-islamic.

My point about Francis Bacon's quote is that in the 1500's there was A LOT that we didn't know. Which to most people could only be explained by god. Take someone like Francis Bacon and put him the modern world and educate him on all we know now, and there's no guarantee that he would still be a theist. That's my point.

 

[Mohamed_Sadiq]

Freethinker, go outside the internet for answers if u genuinly want to know about allah and islam.

 

[Masuma]

So should I assume then that you are treacherously avoiding answering my questions?

My definition of natural: Something occurring spontaneously in nature, something was not created by a sentient being.
The big bang was also natural, so no, the universe being created by the big bang does not contradict my definition.

Do you know, this time it was I who presumed your answer and unbelievably you've said the same thing which I presumed.
Now, if you say that some spontaneous or random reaction initiated the creation of universe then that is okay but the universe ITSELF was not present. That is, that the raw materials were present by which the creation was created but the CREATION itself was not present at all at that time. Now lets go further back in history. How did the very, very primary raw materials came into existence?

And if the creation is just so spontaneous, that is that if we simply popped up from these raw materials, then why has this process halted? Why don't we see more people simply popping up from the raw materials now? Hmmm?

Do you have any idea of how much precision and accuracy it takes to make just one simple protein molecule? Just ONE molecule??? Even if one, yeah just one, amino acid is wrongly coded in a DNA molecule, the person would be abnormal. He might suffer from various diseases.

Now do you want me to be so lazy and ill-logical as to believe that such precision, such accuracy can be achieved by a SPONTANEOUS process?

Living creatures are formed by different elements, those elements are naturally occurring, that doesn't contradict my definition of natural either.

How did the "elements" came into existence? And please don't try to say that "they just did!" because this would be ridiculous.

There are no scientific miracles in the Qur'an, to put it bluntly. All you need is a little skepticism and to do a little research and you will see that they have non-divine explanations.

So where is your proof? Produce your proof if you are truthful! Prove me that Quran is of non-divine origin! One thing, free thinker, you think that you'll keep avoiding answering questions and that would lead you to truth? You are totally mistaken. You've asked us all here to prove to YOU that Allah exists because we, believers make this statement. But now this time, it is YOU who has passed an unauthentic statement and so now the whole burden falls on you. PROVE ME THAT QURAN IS FROM A NON-DIVINE SOURCE?

And if you have no proof of it, then should it have been better that to remain silent on the matter? Now you have laid an allegation and so YOU prove it!

My point about Francis Bacon's quote is that in the 1500's there was A LOT that we didn't know. Which to most people could only be explained by god. Take someone like Francis Bacon and put him the modern world and educate him on all we know now, and there's no guarantee that he would still be a theist. That's my point.

That's YOUR point and your point, like mine, doesn't hold any importance! Btw, don't you ever see any scientific documentaries etc? Because then you would have realized that there is still a hell lot to discover and understand. The more discoveries we make, the more new queries rise. The more knowledge we gain, the less and little we feel it to be!

Now my point is that if Francis Bacon would have lived in this century, it would have made him a total, pure, true Muslim. He would have now for sure realized that such mysterious and ever expanding universe can only be created by God!

Now if you don't mind, then try to answer my question. Do you believe that Quran was copied or taken from Jewish and Christian myths?

And your very clever actually because you've been very treacherously avoiding my question! So answer it now, if you are truthful! And if you don't have any proof, then from next time onwards, it would be more suitable for you to not dare pass unauthentic statements.

Peace

 

[FreeThinker]

Do you believe that Quran was copied or taken from Jewish and Christian myths?


Peace

Yes.
And the very same Christian and Jewish myths that the Qur'an copied from are themselves copies of the pagan myths that predated Christianity and Judaism.

And much of the science in the Qur'an was plagiarized from ancient Greek texts. The Qur'an even copied the science that the Greeks got wrong, such as the semen thing I pointed out, which you so conveniently ignored.

PS. Can you answer this for me: Who wrote the Qur'an ?